The flaming sword wasn’t on fire, they painted flames on it to make it swing faster.

Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who is his own father, can make you live forever if you telepathically accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is there because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

I was already in doubts about Christianity when I had a conversation with what I thought was a good and faithful friend. He was very active in church, held bible studies in his home and was full of advice to others about their faith and lifestyle. He cheated on his wife with another member of the church and the scandal came to light because the woman involved wanted to have him and confessed what they were doing in and attempt to break his marriage apart.This is cleaned up and not verbatim but it went like this. Me- Would you shoplift something from a store knowing there was a camera on you the whole time and the Sherriff was watching you at all times. Freind- No Me- Why not? Freind- because God is watching, the Sheriff is watching and I would surely go to jail. My reputation would be destroyed by the news paper, a fine would have to be paid and I couldn't live it down. My wife would think I have lost my mind and children would lose respect too. Me- Why would you cheat on your wife if you know God is watching? Freind- It speaks of weakness of the flesh in the bible and I have repented of my sins. God understands we will fall from time to time. Me- Would you have cheated on your wife in front of a video camera knowing your wife was watching. Freind- Well no, I still love her and would not want to hurt her feelings. Me- So what was the weakness of the flesh about then? Are you more concerned about your wife's feelings than Jesus's feelings who you claim to love, have a deep personal relationship with and rely on him for salvation? Freind- Allright!!! I'm done answering your questions. This kind of stuff happens all the time in churches with many many members and not just cheating on a spouse either. These people hide their little secrets and judge one another and determine who has a strong faith and who doesn't all the while they actively and knowingly commit a sin they would judge someone else harshly for. Christianity is a mind game and not a belief. It thrives on cognitive bias and devices such as the shroud of Turin to give them a little pick me up or a fix to carry on in their social circles.

I was expecting the argument: "I believe in God." "Which God?" "There can be only one."

"What is it a metaphor for?" The question that isn't asked often enough, and answered even less often.

God could have made the tree like the one in Oz, which would slap away anyone's hand reaching for the apple.

Of course we can't find the Garden of Eden. Every Mormon knows it's in Jackson County, Missouri. (I still chuckled about a Mormon reading that to me)

How does Adam even know what a sword is to be deterred by it?

It's like the writer thought to himself - Just a regular sword is kind of vanilla. I know! A flaming sword would be super badass!

I still feel like Darkmatter2525's animations are the most accurate depiction of the character Yahweh compared to the actual text. Why do they have wings? Why a flaming metal sword? Why legions and armies? Why not just do it yourself in a way that doesn't cause suffering? Because it'd be so COOL, thats why!

If you're committed to making a pop culture reference, there may be a better one to use: Star Trek. "What does God need with a starship?" About as much as God needs with a sword.

There can be only one...except for all those other guys on a distant, high-tech planet who came to screw up a fun, magic and fantasy film...and not forgetting the three Mongolians buried alive who pop up later ...or the multitude that Conner's inexplicable blood relative (considering immortals are sterile according to the fiction) battled against for a TV series... but apart from that, 'There can be only one.' Actually, it still makes more sense than the bible.

Not much need for sword-swinging angels when you can just turn people into pillars of salt.

I have these exact same types of conversations with my sci-fi/fantasy/comic book geek friends ALL the time....for literally decades we've done this!! Matt what you said here, especially the parallels between older sci-fi, "bad", contrasted with newer stories or stories meant to flesh out and re-contextualize the older stories, is f*cking spot on!

Matt, I watched episode 387 of Atheist experience again earlier. You look SO much better now than then 👍

Matt, you always make me think and open me up to different ways of thinking about this subject. Thank you.

Highlander 2: The Quickening, still a more cohesive story than what's written in the Bible.

Didn't Jesus RISE into heaven at the Ascension without wings? But this also raises (pun intended) the idea that heaven is above the clouds, basically in outer space, along with all the other references say to angels coming down. Yet one more way the bible can't even get the basic facts of science right.

Matt, I've always thought people started using the images from art of the middle ages. And Dantes' Inferno. In the Bible , god and the angels looked like men, the angels go on to Sodom and Gemora . The ones in revelation sound more demonic! But as the book we have today progresses, it seems both old and new testaments get more magical? This was excellent, great points! It all, they all, fail when you think too much! 👍💖💙🥰✌

This video should have had trigger warnings, I had just about gotten over the the trauma of watching Highlander 2. Oh well, another thirty years of trying to forget again.

In the immortal words of James Tiberius Kirk, "What does _God_ need with a starship?"

I'm inclined to think they were talking about literal swords; God can't defeat Iron chariots, so it would make sense that god with be stuck with bronze age technology

Good stuff matt! Keep the juices flowing

Loved Highlander. All the other ones that followed, especially #2 was horrible. They really fkd that franchise.

Been waiting for this for a min

Speaking with angels and why they are necessary, I loved Paula White preaching about how the 2020 election would be overturned because "angels have been dispatched from Africa right now...they're coming here, in the name of Jesus...from South America..." This was right after she said, " The Lord says it is done." If the Lord says it is done, then why are the angels from Africa and South America needed? What are they going to accomplish, and what were they doing in Africa and South America before that? Of course, we can also add that if the Lord really did send all these angels, and tell Paula White that "it was done", that God was completely wrong in his assertion and failed to do anything of note. The Christian beliefs often seem to be a mash up of an all powerful, all knowing, timeless, spaceless entity that somehow also needs a giant bureaucracy of angels and humans to accomplish things, has a throne and corridors of heaven, and is fighting an eternal war against an enemy. I'm not even sure what Christians want me to believe when they say I should believe in their god.

God is too busy picking the winners of sport events. Let's be real, the thing is silly. You can interpret every word the way you want, can just write your own fairy tale.

Love it Matt! Your mind is truly amazing!

People need to be shut down on the phrase "taking it too literally." A story is either literal or it's not. If they say the bible is literal and then we critique it as a literal account, we are not being "too literal."

An eye for an eye and an ear for a sermon.

Really interesting. Thanks for that video.

Highlander I was a decent fantasy story. Highlander II tried to turn it into science fiction.

When I think of angels with swords, I think of Diablo lol. Or magic the gathering.

Yeah swords, and horses and thrones. If Moses returned from the top of Mt Sinai with a laptop instead of stone tablets or Jesus was said to one day return in a Stealth Fighter instead of a horse I might be impressed.

Not the main point, but _Highlander_ wasn't sci-fi, it was fantasy (which doesn't have to make sense, because magic). The problem with _Highlander II The Quickening_ is that they tried to turn it into sci-fi, which requires it to make sense and it didn't. There should have been only one.

This is the argument I always find myself thinking about the most - happy to know that it has a name. Why do all that, when God can just make everything go *poof*. I thoroughly enjoyed this, thank you!

The image of an angel with a flaming sword protecting Eden is from Paradise Lost (imho as a retired lit prof) as that image is a major figure in the final verses. Way too many Christians have never read the scriptural texts and have also never read texts by say Dante or Milton and don’t realize which images are from the actual Bible vs popular literary works written centuries later.

Many of the biblical stories regarding angels, swords, lights and fires from the sky sounds more like misunderstood ET tech and actions. I don't necessarily hold the belief that that's the case, but I find it much more probable than a literal interpretation.

Loved the Show!

highlander, a film where a frenchman playing a scotsman really struggles with english language while failing badly to hide his frenchie accent and, a scotsman playing a spaniard makes zero effort to sound spanish or hide his thick scottish twang. and that kids is one of the greatest eighties movies!

It would be difficult to say the six pairs of wings that the seraphim have if the wings are figurative. Why differentiate how many wings they have from the cherubim I'd the wings are figurative?

A flaming Söorgh?? "Hello, sweetie!!!......I am feeling totally FABULOUS amongst the fjords!!!"

I was raises Catholic and when it came to swords and religion, what immediately comes to mind is Saint George slaying the dragon. Extra biblical for sure.

This reminds me of Star Wars where Obi Wan explains the force to Luke, "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." compared to Qui Gon saying, "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force."

Fun video. "A metaphor for what" is exactly the question we need to be asking people who say that.

Listening to Matt is much better than Church. I never understood the "message" from those self taught "I was called to preach the Gospel" preachers.

I actually called into The Atheist Experience several years ago, to point out the fact that in many places in the Bible including the Old and New Testament, it seemed that God and His angels utilized quite a few human inventions, both on this Earth and in heaven and my point was that it made it so obvious that people were making things up in the Bible because it makes no sense that contemporary human inventions always finds their selves in the hands of God or in heaven when new things are made up by Prophets during different time periods. Things like Gates, doors, Kings Thrones, staff's rods and swords, chariots, Etc, and if you fast-forward to today, you have so-called the prophets today talking about motorcycles, waterparks, and all that other crap being in heaven or owned by God that people like Kat Kerr make up. But it's ironic that these things are never mentioned by these so-called prophets until humans have invented them, and then suddenly these prophets both ancient and current claiming that God has these things only after the fact.

Good point and I can not provide a resolution to your question. However, I do stand on the reasoning that religious text are for some purpose of which we have not discovered. For example, if the multiverse theory is correct, then there would be billions of bibles and they would not all be the same. You say, you know whats in the Bible because you have read it, but so have others and did witness the Bible making variations because they called it, "the living bible", because it changed text.

hold on "I still have a sword, I still have a knife; they still have their use" please tell me what you're using your sword for - i need to know

Jebus glued the ear back on in the version i heard about

it always amazed me how many lives and hours were spent to make sense of some old writings..i tried it with the old fable of "little red ridinghood".it took me one hour.

I thought this was going to be a talk about the need for one interpretation. But, i was either raised or concluded as a kid that eden couldn't be found because it was destroyed in the flood.

Love your videos, thank you for what you are doing.

Ironically, considering all the talk here of Highlander and angels, the writer of the original Highlander film (who stuck to his "there can be only one" words and had nothing to do with any of the sequels) went on to write that film "The Prophecy" (1995) which starred Christopher Walken as "Gabriel" and was all about (you guessed it) angels. Haven't seen it since Laserdisc but it was quite good, iirc.

I interpret the tree of life/knowledge as the goddess Asherah (fertility goddess) otherwise known as Queen of Heaven (consort of El, Baal, and Yahweh). From that perspective, it would make sense to guard the queen just like any sort of royalty would be guarded at that time. It's just a remnant of the Canaanite roots. Interesting aside: If the interpretation is accurate, we basically have Asherah serving the role of Prometheus, sharing 'fire' with mankind. In this case, sharing the divine power of creation. But rather than punish the sharer of divine power as happens with Prometheus, it's mankind that suffers repetitive torture and death for eternity.

ricky bobbie said highlander won acadamy award for best movie ever..."shake and bake"

The Highlander series as a whole has parallels with the Bible and its sequels. Highlander is like the Old Testament, sets up the story, not without flaws but it is what it is. Highlander II The Quickening changes a lot of the premises of the first movie, just like the New Testament changes the storyline of the old (wait, Yahweh's now the good guy?) and a lot of the original fanbase didn't accept it. Highlander III The Sorcerer is like the Quran, attempting to be a better sequel to the original, Yahweh's back to being a complete asshole and retcons the 2nd title. Highlander: The Source would then be the Book of Mormon, the franchise entering crazytown.

I love the first Highlander movie. All this video did was tell me I don't have to bother watching the second film. But yeah, viewed as mythology it seems pretty cool for angels to have swords and look really crazy. But when taken as if inspired by true events and a real God it immediately falls apart.

Thank you Matt !

One or more ears were harmed in the making of this video. 🙂 Thanks for sharing!

Some people think the weird scorpion/dragonfly thing in Revelation is a clear description of an Apache Helicopter! But you know, sometimes a weird scorpion/dragonfly thing is just a weird scorpion/dragonfly thing!

There can be only one!

It's a good argument, and surely something we've all concluded ourselves in some way or another, if not put words to. For myself, I've started down that road of thinking many times, and I always seem to take it to an insoluble dead-end. For example, we start with angels not needing swords, angels not needing wings, god not needing angels, or trees of XY or Z. Then we imagine theist's objections regarding metaphors, or better yet, intentionality. God designed it with angels and swords and trees because that was the best way to design it. But that inevitable leads to more questions. WHY? Why did he have to 'design' anything at all? Omniscience rules out the notion that we are being 'tested'. Reality and the various laws of nature rule out Omnipotence. That is, he could have made us balls of consciousness floating in a formless void and set up any test he wanted from there. Universe (and batteries) not required. He doesn't need angels or swords or trees. He doesn't need us or universes or reality either. We don't create video games in the hope that the characters will fulfill some destiny, despite the fact that the game might have a story, and characters, that DO seem to fulfill some destiny. We write games to entertain ourselves and when we get bored we delete them. If there's a god, as unlikely as that is, granting grudgingly, it doesn't follow that we factor in to his plans in any way.

Matt, thanks for apologizing for mentioning Highlander 2

Well, Matt, what's wrong with a god wanting do things that way? Guarding a garden with a bunch of angels and a flaming sword is very important when it's *two* people that just got yeeted from the place. *One may never know* how harmful *two* people can be, especially now that they are scared of being naked.

Does the concept of perfection ironically have flaws?

As a kid I was told the Archangel Gabriel was wielding the flaming sword guarding the Eden.

Theres a funny line from a song called "Dont be mad at God" by Steve Baughman, that captures this argument. Some people say its Satan, hes battling the almighty lord But the almighty in a battle, he must be gettin' mighty bored.

I was anticipating a "There Can Only Be One (True Christianity)" type of argument with a title like that. I'm glad to see it was more interesting than that.

OK, I need help with this syllogism. I've tried to punch holes in it, but I can defend each premise. But if anybody can find problems with it or can give me a better way of wording it, I would appreciate it. Especially the conclusion. Premise 1) God, by definition, can not be contingent upon anything outside of him. Premise 2) it is impossible to say "God exists" without making God contingent upon something outside of him. Premise 3) If something is contingent upon anything outside itself, it can not be God by definition. Conclusion) The sentence "God exists" is incoherent by definition.

Didn't the movie hint that Jesus might be an Immortal? Might explain how crucifying didn't work. I still remember the episode in the Highlander TV series that had the actress who played Ivonava in Babylon 5. A man asks, 'You've read the Kama Sutra?' She replied, 'Who do you think posed for the pictures?'

Scrolling down past comments, first an ad, then... Highlander (the movie). Noice.

🎼🎵🎵Maybe I'm wrong And I should know better To trust easily, I don't know... But I've waited so long And I need to believe That there must be a way And I know I've got... One dream that keeps me hangin' on One dream, over and over One dream that love will find a way Find a way, yeah, yeah Yesterday's gone And all that remains of the past Is this memory But it takes love that is strong And a heart that is pure To stand a little pain We gotta live for today One dream that keeps me hangin' on One dream, dream it over and over One dream that love will find a way Find a way, yeah One dream that's all that I'm livin' for One dream, dream it over and over One dream that love will find a way Find a way, yeah, yeah Ooh, yeah Yesterday's gone And all that remains of the past Is a memory But it takes love that is strong And a heart that's pure And can stand a little pain Ooh, yeah, yeah now One dream that keeps me hangin' on One dream, over and over One dream that love will find a way I know, I know One dream that keeps me hangin' on One dream, over and over One dream that love will find a way Mmm, mmm Will find a way Love will find a way One dream that keeps me hangin' on One dream, over and over One dream that keeps me hangin' on One dream, over and over

When i read the title, i thought the Highlander argument was about christianity getting rid of all the other gods, as in 'There can be only one.' I've not thought about it in terms of the wepons used. If i was god, I'd go for a ray-gun myself.

That's the test, "Do everything I tell you to do without asking why, and you pass"

When I saw that title, I was expecting a very different argument. Something like "because each denomination and sect of Christianity disagree, they could not all be correct. Only one could be correct. (And any of them that emerged from within another group would have developed from a group they believe to be incorrect, which doesn't bode well for their own correctness.) They could however all be incorrect."

Gimme the Prize!!!

Hey Matt. Love you, love the show. I've been listening for about 15 years. I was raised evangelical fundamentalist in a small town in Oklahoma where I still live. I'm 40 now. I've been atheist since highschool, but I'm gonna put on my christian hat for a second. I was always taught that either the garden was destroyed in the flood or god sort of "raptured" it to heaven before the flood because it was the only perfect place. He would have left the guard with a sword because even primitives understand what it means and he never needs to fight higher technology. As for the wings and such, when I asked about that, I was basically told that God likes pageantry.😂 It's all ridiculous.

Not only are swords the pinacle of melee weapons (in overall versatility, surpassed by specific weapons in specific situations where said weapons are effective only in said situations), but you have no idea what technology will develop. Will dune-like personal shields limiting velocity, bringing back melee weapons as credible main weapons of war, be possible ? Will stealth technology, paired with anti-missile defenses, become so good that melee ambushes/stealth assaults will become favoured for taking enemy positions ? Will exoskeletons enable such durability, speed and agility that swordmaster-like supersoldiers ( with genetically engineered/selected predisposed talent for swordsmanship ) be able to become literal one-men armies, maybe even bring a new paradigm of a legions of city-states kept together by god(of war)-kings ? What about metal gear : revengeance ? ( i always asked for this, what a shame ) There's also the simple fact that firearms, on any kind of relevant scale, are fundamentally tied to industrial society, and civilizational collapse could make ammunition/parts scarce enough for melee to become the meta again ( assuming it happens before the molecular assembler ).

Angels have wings because they needed to describe how they fly .and the only thing they ever seen that was flying had wings ..imagine what they would say if they seen a plane 😳.would blow there mind

Religious fiction versus science fiction. Good job Matt.

Flaming Sword was the best that ancient people could do to describe a firing phaser pistol.

I like the image of the flaming sword in the novel Good Omens, The angel standing near Eden gave his flaming sword to Adam and Eve when they were banished from Eden in order for them to have something to make fire with. 🤣🤣🤣

In the Bible there are at least 3 references to angels holding swords. Numbers 22:31 "Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face." 1 Chronicles 21:16 "And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem." 1 Chronicles 21:27 "And the Lord commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof."

Why didn't the evil queen simply kill Snow White instead of disguising herself and tricking her into biting the poisoned apple? Fairy Tails are designed to entertain children.

I don't see the bible as 'bad fiction;' I personally think it's amazing fiction considering it's setting. My personal enjoyment in reading the bible has skyrocketed since my deconversion for the sole fact that I wasn't in constant conflict with the prose to assure it was being evaluated & interpreted consistently with the bible's other books. When you stop reconciling Yahweh of Numbers with the omni-benevolent all-loving deity of the New Testament, you can appreciate the themes and message of the actual story. I agree that the plot holes should be noticed and pointed out to the literalists, but they shouldn't distract you from the text itself.

the Ophanim are wingless flyers. i think the wings of angels are more of an æsthetic choice. although i don't think what the angels do is ever called or even really meant to be interpreted as "flight", as such. they just kinda appear wherever they need to, and that includes in the sky. there's an electric car brand named Aptera Motors. and 'Aptera' is, according to them: the Greek word for "wingless flight".

Ayo Matt, can we get some throwback talks from nature like you user to do?

@Matt Dillahunty -Because I know you care a lot about Highlander 2 and this is really relevant, 🤒🤑🤗🤭🤫 and you might not have bothered to research the movie's origins, here's some info on Highlander 2: The showrunners began shooting the movie in 1988, but couldn't get financing. Eventually, they settled with a bail bond company, who would serve as producers for the movie. However, the company had a clause in the contract whereby if the movie makers had cost overruns, the bail bond co. would cover them, but would have creative control over the movie. The writing for this film was truly ambitious in nature. The director Russel Mulcahy and the writers had three goals in mind when making this film: 1) they wanted a futuristic setting similar to Blade Runner; 2) they wanted to make an environmentally conscious film; and 3) they wanted to reveal the origins of the Immortals. In trying to attain goal number 1: Mulcahy and his crew ran into cost overruns. And thus of course, the bail bondsmen got a say as to what the origin of the immortals would be-goal #3. As for goal number 2- that was the whole plotline where McCloud made a shield to protect the entire Earth from the sun's rays due to the dissipating ozone layer. Back to goal number 3. Originally, Mulcahy & the writers intended the Immortals to be prehistoric sorcerers who used a combination of magic and technology to travel through time. Eventually, they were overrun by a warlord named General Katanna, who used the technology to banish dissidents to other timelines, even in the future. Once there, the dissidents would age and live out the rest of their natural lives. But, once the bail bond co. had assumed control, they made Katanna into this intergalactic warlord, who sent several soldiers who revolted against him to a penal colony planet called Zeist. Once there, he began to banish some of the prisoners to other time periods. Again, the prisoners would age once they were sent to these other periods of time. This is what happens to Connor McCloud. He gets sent to the future to live out the rest of his natural existence. The movie took about 2 and a half to 3 years to make. It bombed in the theaters and went straight to video in 1991. Mulcahy & his crew, did manage to procure financing from other sources, and he was able to shoot and make his own true version of the movie without the influences of the bail bondsmen. He re-shot some scenes in 1993 and 1994 when also making Highlander 3 even though H3 was shot by another director. Mulcahy's version was called Highlander 2: the Renegade Version and went directly to video in 1995.

all the satellites orbiting earth, google maps, and we still can't fine EDEN. Maybe it doesn't exist.

I would just like everyone to know that because of the title of this video, KZfaq is advertising Highlander 3 for me to rent 😂

My question has always been: I gawd carved morality on our hearts, why did he need a "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil"? And if he just wanted a tree, why would Adam and Eve (with this knowledge already carved in their hearts) be a threat (or even affected by) eating the fruit?

The Garden of Eden scenario is crying out for an application of the Someone Else's Problem field generator.

Matt, you could also include horses in the argument. Like those in the book of revelation. Who the fuck goes to war on horses, anymore?

Not trying to be on the "it's all just a metaphor bro" train or anything, but in regards to the sword thing. And I'm not saying this is absolute fact or that it applies to every mention of swords in the bible. But I have heard that swords were sometimes metaphors for words or messages. Idk if this metaphoric interpretation is only meant for occult things like tarot cards n such, but I have wondered if it could apply to the bible or some ancient stories. I feel it does make sense in some ways as words and ideas can be very powerful in terms of how they affect society. Some ideas can be powerful enough to cut whole nations apart, much like a sword would cut apart an enemy or defend oneself against attackers.

Basically it boils down to the idea of this supreme entity doing things in the most unlikely of ways for seemingly no reason. Though, as you said, they just pass it off as metaphor, except for the evangelical whackos, but they believe the Earth is 6k years old and more than a few them believe the Earth is flat, so believing in actual angels running around with swords doing God's bidding is not surprising.

great, practical points brought up in this one

The Bible should start off as ONCE UPON A TIME

If immortality was a thing (which it’s not) it should be like Highlander, I.e. living for ever. Not a resurrection then disappearing again, that defeats the object.

Who were they guarding the tree from ? If it’s just from Adam and Eve then a flaming sword and two nightmarish monstrosities seems a tad over the top .