For those who don’t want their time wasted the actual video starts at 4:37

Was thinking about doing ATP but listening closely and watching this video help me a lot thank you man!!

2:15

I think the big thing about a program like ATP is it only works as advertised if you are motivated and have a solid work ethic and the discipline to get shit done. I had a fantastic experience with ATP, but I trained alongside a lot of other students who never wanted to study and basically wanted to just be spoon-fed everything and not have to put in any work themselves. If you put in the work, ATP will definitely meet you halfway, but at the end of the day it is a fast track program and it is 80% self study - you're paying ATP for their aircraft and access to their structure, curriculum and network. Other than that, you have to take on the responsibility yourself to make sure you are getting your money's worth.

Hey Ryan! Im glad you made this video. I did all my ratings at a local flight school for a total cost of roughly $47,000. up to CFII. I am not going for my MEI as I feel the costs outweighs the pros in my situation unless I go to a multi heavy flight school. My private did take me a long time but I started back in high school with little money. Once I got a job I was able to accelerate. I did my instrument in 3 months, Commercial in 2 months, CFI/CFII in 1 month (Only rating I did at an accelerated program which was ideal and cost effective). All while working and making money. I was able to tailor the program myself with my instructors which was great. Definitely a better route in my opinion if one can take it.

Thanks for the video, Ryan. I considered ATP back in 2010 or so and I was that super young guy and when I applied for the financing I found out that it was variable interest rates and my father would have to co-sign for me since I had zero credit being so young. Let's just say that the estimated payments were enough to keep me from signing and going. I'm now 29 years old and wiser and still have that bug to fly BUT it's just not worth that much debt in my opinion. I did get 38hours towards my private back in 2010 with a local FBO and my pilot finance loan ran out due to fuel cost increasing so I never finished. BUT I was one that had issues landing for example. Everything else I got but landing was a challenge for one reason or another and the CFI did work with me and helped me and gave me extra time and lessons for landing. As you pointed out ATP would not have done that and I would have been behind and possibly failed out. I'm 29 now and have considered a career in aviation but its just too expensive and not an easy career path unfortuantely. Key takeaways from what you said are: -It's expensive and A LOT of debt to take on / the payments won't be cheap... -ATP won't customize the program for you. If you struggle with portions you WILL be behind and possibly fail out. -Its simply not easy to do and a lot of commitment and hard work with a premium price tag BUT can get you there fast IF you succeed.

Thank you for posting this video. I went to ATP back in 2009 and much has changed. Based on some of the students who augment their training with me, are telling me the quality of training has gone down with extremely high expectations. I had a couple tell me about the admissions flight for private (antidotal info) they go up for 2.5 hours with a flight instructor and they are given 5 maneuvers shown two times and you must complete 4 outta five with success. (ACS pvt) a lead instructor makes the admission recommendation then the prospective student is interviewed by admissions. I’ve had some students even make the decision to voluntarily withdrawal from the program with two weeks after start date when they were told about the ACS standards evaluated from their current skill level. My personal opinion those mom and pops part 61s typically give you better training than the ATP fast track. Last time I walked into ATP I noticed some of the instructors were not very nice people.

I appreciate this video! I was literally speaking with the office near Dallas, Texas. I need to look into another flight training school.

Great video! I am gonna agree with you that currently it is not a good program. I am currently enrolled at ATP. And I can speculate that the required prerequisites now might be to stop the student flow because there is high amount of student volume and low FAA DPE. My old location was so backed up on checkrides that it delayed folks over a month!

I love how honest you are

Thanks Ryan. I'm at the point of decision and your video has shed some light needed. My first time listening to you and I had to subscribe. Thank you

Thanx I am just starting a similar type of flight school and this helps a lot in finances

The reason why I’m going to ATP is to get all my ratings done in one house without having to worry about what flight schools offer. It’s worth the cost of living with parents a little longer.

The reason I feel they want a college degree is like you kind of touched on earlier in the video. They want you to come in with a feeling of what the program will be like and college is kind of like a prep to ATP. But I feel it’s also required since a lot of airlines typically hire pilots who have degrees or military experience.

Great advice, reasonable observations!

This guy can talk about himself all day, a true champion

Hey Ryan. Another good video. For those that are reading this comment, this is why I chose NOT to go with ATP - Me: Mid-50's and finishing up with one career and want to go into aviation before that door is closed. I looked at ATP, but decided to go with a Part 141 school. Why? Think of ATP as a full-time job, and I could not commit to another full time job, so I found a Part 141 school that is structured and yet flexible enough with my schedule. I get three to five flight days a week, and I am able to study at home for the ground school portion of my PPL. At five weeks into my PPL (the weather holds and Holidays included), I'm at 22 hours and prepping for my first solo. I budgeted $60 - 80k for all my certs and ratings with a time-frame of six to 12 months. The bottom line is - what works for YOU in your situation. Currently there are many avenues in pursuing your dream of flying the friendly skies and landing a job like Ryan's.

This video really helps me alot deciding of my flight school.

sheesh ! thanks to everyone for commenting about their experience with ATP I've been thinking either to go to a 2 year college and then transfer or go to ATP

I'm about to start! Excited

Thanks for your useful info. I think as long as you can save up, it’s better to attend full time or fast paced at a local flight school ( earn you rating and debt free). 1-4 years from 0 flight time to ATPL I think it’s doable. One can get all ratings and certificate at 50k instead of 80-100k and paying $1,000 a month is insane.

As an ATP graduate from the 50hr Multi program last year in March before they changed it to the current program. Currently a CFI/CFII/MEI at 900hrs. I can honestly say I'd do it all over again as a student, however, I would never go back as a CFI after 3 months instructing. I'm currently at another flight school that has made my quality of life, immensely better. I think ATP works great and with the loan options, it was what allowed me to get my ratings ASAP. Being in my mid-30s, time wasn't something I wanted to waste. I didn't have the ability like Ryan to get a personal loan, so I had to use Sallie Mae. My training for the most part up until CFI school was flawless. I went in as a PPL holder and completed my Instrument and Commercial Multi/Single in just under 4 months. Then I had to wait for CFI school for 3 weeks due to the end of the year holidays, and CFI academy start dates. I went through the, then 2-week academy and completed my flight training in just under two weeks. Then I had to wait for DPE availability for another week or two. Finally had my MEI initial oral, which I passed after an exhausting 8 hour oral. Discontinued, then due to illness of the DPE and myself, along with weather finally completed the flight 23 days later. All in all, it took me just under 9 months to complete an advertised 6-month program. I'd say a lot of it was tough luck due to DPE availability, illness, and weather. I immediately was offered a job as a CFI at ATP. I started there because at the time it was an easy option, but I knew it wouldn't last. Horrible pay with an insane amount of time dedication to give quality instruction and try to make some money ended all of the personal quality of life I had left. Yes, you can get INSANE and very likely illegal amounts of hours, according to the FAR's, by working at ATP. I know CFI's who are just now starting at the airlines while I have about 600hours to go before I'm ATP eligible. So I moved on to another flight school and I'm averaging 75-90 hours a month, that I'm much happier and making quite good money. As a student, ATP delivered on what I needed so for that the program was great for a mid-30s, married with kids guy, who wanted to get into aviation ASAP and hit the ground running. I went at my own pace, put in the work and got my program completed. I do not regret the decision even with an 80k loan over my head. Though, a lot has changed, I see people dipping out after they get their commercial and passing on CFI. I don't know the whole reason, but I heard they are pushing CFI checkrides super fast. Doesn't matter if the applicant is ready, or even should be a CFI.... business is business...so they are in full SEND IT mode. As a CFI following the program and working for ATP as a 1099 contractor I was miserable. Scheduling events for students was a nightmare, and having flight planned only to get bumped out very often for higher priority flights was frustrating to keep students on track and gaining hours. ATP gives a ground instruction guarantee, that I know and see many CFI's not giving students the necessary mentorship they deserve, only to take the money and run. Give very little ground and pre/post flight briefs which in turn means yes, they get more hours and do get to the airlines much faster. Why be a CFI if you're not going to give your students their due diligence.....*soap box moment* Anyways, I love being a CFI, so I went to a flight school where I didn't have my hands tied behind my back. Sure, 100+ hours a month would be great and all, but I enjoy my family, and I enjoy having some time for myself other than flying. I'll sacrifice 10-20 hours a month for some sanity, and exchange roughly 4-5 hours of my own to take my family or my self for a SOLO flight to get away from students. Hours come faster than many expect.

Thanks this video saved me, patience is key . 🔥

After you solo, buy a used trainer (152,172,tomahawk,tailwheel ect) and go part-61. Fly across the country and have fun. You can get a lot of your certifications and as much experience in your own airplane.

Good info! Bought a Cessna 150 to build my time and get ratings while being an A&P

The primary reason people attend ATP is because of speed and the financing. If people want to get their licenses quickly, ATP is (or at least used to be) the place to do it. If they can't get funding anywhere ATP had deals with WF and SM that would give almost anyone a loan. But there are a lot of downsides. They treat their instructors to the level of near abuse (and many of their instructors have no business instructing, they are just there to build hours). They will almost never refund money for any reason. And the program takes longer than advertised for most people. They also like to ram students through checkrides even if they are not ready which in my opinion is borderline criminal.

I’m there now at Morristown NJ. I’m honestly extremely happy with my location, loan availability, the expedited nature of the program and the quick filtering out of people that aren’t serious from the program. The planes are top notch g500 equipped and well maintained. The program gives people a chance to go full force (with financing)

You earned a sub today! Recently, I earned my PPL at Vaughn College and still continuing it with IFR rating. I am also planning to get the associate degree which reduce hours. On top of that, I plan to fly with regional airlines, probably Envoy. Once I have hours, can I try to go to All Nippon Airways and train the 777 or stay with US based airline and transact into their 777 and eventually go to ANA. I want to land in ANA at my first shot there after at the interview, follow up, and training.

Earned a sub, ur a good guy

very helpful vid. gave me more perspective. thanks!

Hey, thank you for your thoughts, was very informative

I’m at Atp and I hear it differs from location but honestly I love it.

As for the intro flight, I did mine with ATP a couple months ago... you basically go up with an instructor for about 30 minutes while they tell you what to do and give you instructions to follow. They make sure you: 1) don't freak out in the air behind the controls, and 2) are trainable. Apparently a lot of people do their intro flight and realize that flying isn't for them, or they panic in the air, or they don't listen to basic instructions on how to fly the plane. The instructor decides if you would be a good student or not. I did ultimately decide to go with ATP and I begin in March, good reminder though to be on top of my game!

Just started at ATP last week. Working on Instrument rating. It’s a lot different than what I’m used to since I did my PPL at a 141 school it definitely is an adjustment, but with hard work and dedication it will be worth it.

I want to be honest with you the first two minutes and 15 seconds through me off but I'm glad I stuck with it. Thanks for the information take care

Ryan, I would first like to say thank you for making those videos back in 2016. Watching those videos just after I got my start package helped me to prepare for the train I was soon to board (ATP, the joke was the train never stops lol). I totally concur with you that it is no longer a good choice with those prices and their methodology with 2 types of crew phases (heck, one was already long enough). I had a great experience with ATP, as good as a struggling 35 year old could that didn’t do the CFI program. Speaking of the CFI program, they are quick to kick people out if they so much as can’t keep up with the pace, which is already fast as it is. It seems like prepping for the instructor exams are more rote memorization than learning with some of the DPEs. The benefits were great if you went about a year ago, but now, I am sorry to say it is a mess. Less time, more money, less ground instruction, almost no actual instrument time (I walked out with 1.3 actual), rushed checkrides, and more. Best wishes to you and thanks again for your videos, John W.

Our company took a hit a few months back and we had to let people go, unfortunately I was demoted to part-time and now I am only on borrowed time, I could be laid off any day. I've always wanted to get into Piloting and it's been a dream throughout my life and long college years. Given that, I looked into ATP. I had hopes, but after coming across this Video now I have doubts. A career change into something I always wanted to do would of been great, but I have to look at the reality. I don't want a bigger stacked of debt on top of the stack I already have. Especially since I've paid so much of it off already. Now I have to find alternatives and or change the way I can incorporate my skill set into another career path... Shucks... Thank you for your honesty Ryan.

awesome video brother!

Hey, Ryan, can you please tell me, what happens if student is not catching up everything in time and in the beginning of the promgam realize that does not want to do that anymore...?

Thanks for the video man

The next 5 years is going to be very crucial in the airline industry. I am not sure if I want to be a pilot and take on a lot of debt. Its a significant risk if the industry does not recover. Thats just a point to think about.

How long would you say I’d take if I decide to pay lesson to lesson starting with 0 hours

I think that part of the reason ATP is no longer as lucrative is the fact that most aviation programs at colleges now already have a pipeline program and CFI training so you can get paid while working up hours. At least my experience talking to people who were going through college aviation programs was that, since they had a pipeline program and the demand for pilots is high at the moment, they were getting pulled by regionals as seniors and being groomed up so the second they reached their required hours, they were thrown in. I think that in today’s day and age it’s just more economical to get your degree and licenses at the same time, and the benefits are just about that same.

No matter what school you choose, pay as you fly pay by the block. 3k fellow students at Silver State Helicopters rips us off and ran with our student loans and till this day some are still hurting. So, it doesn't matter what school you're planing on attending don't pay upfront. Trust us we got burnt big time.

Very good video. I went to ATP Mesa/Gateway in 2018. I would not recommend that location due to the saturation of the school. I was frustrated and had to leave the program since my instrument checkride kept getting pushed out. Best decision I have ever made was realizing that ATP was wasting my time and money. I knocked out my ratings somewhere else and now I am right seating in a Citation Mustang and CJ3 Medavac. ATP will nickel and dime you when you leave. Charged $150/hr for sim time as well as $250/hr Dual in the C172. So it was a very costly mistake for me to choose ATP. Ryan is right. You can have NOTHING going on in your life to make it through the program.

Helped very much thank you

I'm currently going through ATP right now and my scheduled program is 7 months. They do have some leniency in that you will receive a certain amount of flight hours before every checkride. For a PPL, you'll have a minimum of 80hours before a checkride, which is quite a lot. You'll also have evals which will study your progress and make sure you're on track for passing. It is a 24 hour thing, but I have been fortunate enough to have an amazing CFI as well as a large number of students who are more experienced and love aviation. Currently in 2022, the most difficult period is the first 2 weeks, after that you begin to adjust to the pace. From what I can tell, it's a challenge but the degree of resources available really make the experience a blast. If I had one request it would be a lower price tag, but in all fairness what you get for 80-90K is a lot considering fuel, resources, plane availability (Everyday just about), Student Environment, and a private facility to get away from home and study, simulators, and top notch aircrafts. I think ATP get's a bad wrap, but honestly it's been great and you feel like your apart of a small group of an already small group. Currently the Airlines need Pilots and places like ATP are helping the industry stay strong (along with those small mom and pap schools which deserve just as much attention and appreciation).

Hey Ryan, Thanks for the information. I am recently retired Mil and can use the GI Bill there are certain reqs to use it. 1. GIB will not pay for PPL. You must pay out of Pocket... After that they will pay for your Commercial lic. but it must be a Part 141 certified flight school... What are your thoughts on going to the junior college (CSN) here in Las Vegas and taking the Professional Pilot , AAS. There are not many Part 141 options here in Las Vegas, only one actually. What would you recommend. Private out of pocket is looking like $16k min... and then I don't have too many options as the GI Bill requires Part 141 if they are to pay for most of the schooling.. Any and all advice is appreciated from anybody.. TIA. Tony

Thanks for the advice. ATP advertises a lot so I expected them to be expensive. I found other flight schools recognized on the FAA website in metro Atlanta.

So who has had experience with the sallie Mae loan? And do y’all recommend it? Or do you guys recommend any other school near Dallas Tx?

I didn't know about the height / weight requirement. I'm already a pilot so this wouldn't be for me, but I'm 6'7" so they might not have taken me. Interesting.

Did they change the rules? ATP has as flex program for those who work or are doing college.

What kind of money do airline pilots make? I know the costs of ATP is over 100K but if pilots make over 100K/yr or more then it still sounds like a good time investment as the program only takes 9 months from no time.

Hey ryan, great video man , just what we needed. Just one more thing. How much time does it take from starting training for PPL to getting a CPL.

Hey Ryan, I just subscribed to your channel. Thank you for the informative videos- were your fellow graduates all able to get instructor jobs at ATP? I've been heavily considering ATP Flight School myself, my only concern is the possibility of not getting a CFI job even after passing their program/interview. I know the school advertises that a CFI job is guaranteed but I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Any word of advice would be appreciated. Wish you well! -Jack C

Stay humble, Ryan. We tend to chew and spit out those who have the bad habit hauling a bag of ego at the airlines.

Is it mandatory to take ADP for becoming a pilot. What are needed to become a pilot? PPT and CPT are need right. Other than these anything is need or not?

International students can apply for ATP airline pilot career program?

did you ever get your mei-cfi? whats the cost for mei-cfi? not the $20k you mentioned is it?

I did ATP because of financing. It was worth it but I’m also older and can handle that Sallie Mae bill. We had a lot of people fail out because they couldn’t hack it. It’s a beast and not for everyone and the price is crazy now so if u can go somewhere else I say do it

Very informative this video, I wonder if this information is still relevant today entering 2023? I understand some factors have changed now with pilot shortage

Is it as bad as he’s making it seem with falling behind ? Like they don’t help you at all and they teach you then throw the test in front of you or do they actually help

I’m 24 and a local flight school I’m looking into has a accelerated program that costs $78,340. I got approved for a loan and my monthly payment would be $800. Is that fair?

Thanks Thanks and Thanks.

If you need an Associate's Degree, why not just go to a community college with an aviation program? Sure it will take two years to get your CFI but the cost will be on student loans not a variable interest lender and you'll do your AS degree and flight training at the same time. Our local school commits to hiring its grads back as CFIs so that s a boon as well.

Hey Ryan thanks for the video it helps a lot..but what do you think about the academy of aeronautic in Montreal??? I am considering going there

Great job babe. I love you👏🏼👏🏼🥰

Do you know if you have to get a four year degree now to become a pilot?

Hey Ryan, I've enjoyed following you on your training and career advancement. You are an inspiration to many. If you see this, here is my question. I am mid 40's attempting a mid career change. I am just under 400 hours, with ME and IFR ratings and Commercial license. Have not done the CFI yet but am working on it. Do you have any recommendations for a commercial job where i can gain good experience if I don't go the CFI route? I would appreciate any advice and also networking with you. I am located in Utah. Thanks! and keep the great videos coming.

Have you ever thought about doing a video breaking down the costs of owning my own plane like a Cessna 172, hanger, maintenance, fuel etc etc. thinking about buying my own plane and than starting my training next year in Arizona.

Thank you for the video- I appreciate your time and effort- I am interested in your opinions. But not really interested all the materialistic stuff in the beginning..

I'm 22 looking to start my flight career and become a commercial pilot. However I have zero flight time, and people I know already started at age 19, 20.

33 and wanting to change careers. Always wanted to fly, flew a cessna for 30 mins. It was exiting, scary, amd seems to be more exiting career than banking/mortgage. Thinking about ATP due to financing and speed, any thoughts?

Will my GI Bill cover training costs etc.? So I won't have to take out a loan anywhere

How about their partnership programs?

Question if money is the only thing holding me back because i don’t come from a family with any sort of wealth and nobody to help back me, how should i go about becoming a pilot? It is something i am extremely passionate about and dedicated to. Im sure you get this a lot but I appreciate you reading it.

Which one are good flight school around Seattle?

am from Ghana and how can you help me to study at the ATP school.

thank you so much. does anyone know the best flight school in Phoenix, Arizona?

whoa, you don't recommend atp anymore? ugh, i hate how they increased their prices

what about those 2 blond sisters in the current ATP commercial for it? are they for real or paid actresses for marketing?

hi im a PPL easa holder , im looking for a school to do my atpl and cpl , i live in indonesia now , can you help me some information about some school in europe which is cheaper cost living and have a not a bad flight school , cause im not lookibg for a distance learning , btw where did you do your atp ?

Love your intro man. I live in Utah and I am looking at moving to Arizona to work full time for a year save money and do my flight training and pay as I go. Would you have any recommendations for flight instructors down there?

So I’m better than off taking the 58000 two year course closer to my home than going to atp

I started flying at age 15 out of a crop duster op.dirt strip in a 140 got a couple of lessons in and one day showed up and the pilot had sold the plane and moved away! Not deterred I graduated HS and joined the Air Force hoping that would point me in the right direction but this was not in my best interest as I went overseas and could not fly.Returned to the states and started flying again out of the local FBO and was making progress until winter showed up severely limiting my flying hours, after getting out of the AF I had to get a job and pay bills, I didn't really have anyone to point me in the right direction in my life and life was hard not having the money or a clue where to go,I read Flying and saw the pilot schools but I was just lost at what to do.I moved to Florida where I picked up where I left off and finally soloed and was flying cross country and all of that, but life got in the way and I had to stop.I'm now 56 and wanting to change careers, I believe I would make a great pilot and would love to retire doing what I always wanted to do and I'm not aiming for an airline job at all,I would love to just fly anything not concerned about the money or any of that.I just love to fly and it was my dream for almost as long as I've been alive.Do you think that in reality it's too late or should I go for it? Thanks

Ryan how can I contact you? Thanks

helpful video. ATP is located at the same airport my Mom and Pop flight school I currently attend for my PPL. I'm 36 and my discovery flight was at 35, so I paid for the PPL with savings. I'll need a loan if I decide to go to an accelerated school and I didn't like how ATP said they use Sallie Mae, my college loan is through them and they are lairs and cheats! So good to know you can do a private loan. I worked for 15 years in the tech industry so most if it will be paid out of pocket and I want to avoid loans if I can.

Hey Ryan, What do you think about Lift Academy? Is it legit?

They don’t require a college degree, if you check their website under Admissions Prerequisites and Requirements for the Airline Career Pilot Program It says , “US Citizenship (or Permanent Resident) 18 years of age or older High School Diploma or GED FAA First Class Medical Certificate Adherence to Height and Weight Limits - Students taller than 6'3" will be assessed during an Introductory Training Flight for comfort level inside the aircraft and the ability to fully manipulate the controls. Due to aircraft operational limitations, students weighing more than 250lbs may be denied training in ATP aircraft.”

I can't find the required for the degree

Knowing nothing about flight im just worried i wont know the steps to go about to becoming a pilot and im gonna waste a lot of time just researching thats why im leaning towards an all included program

I'm not really worried about COVID because the economy always goes up after it goes down, but I'm really worried if a pilots job might become automated, and they might lose their job. If the pilot's job becomes sitting at a desk in an office controlling the plane I would want to do that. Given my situation, I would start flying for an airline in 2030/2031, which means I would retire in about 2070. I feel kind of scared that the job might become fully automated and pilots might lose their job mid-career. :(( Can someone explain why this will or will not happen? Or why I won't or will lose my job? Thanks :((

But to emphasize what Ryan Huber says, it’s difficult and you can’t go by one day where you are not studying. It’s a tall order that only total immersion can fulfill

I tried going through ATP last year and they wanted me to take out over $100k loan through sallie Mae which I didn’t get approved for it. I wanted to see if I have other options or pay as I go, but they was only interested in students with the loan approval. What even crazy is they did not even check to see how my job is one of their sponsors. Plus the customer service when I finally got ahold of someone was very rude.

In what state or country is he in?

I want study in atp but i dont know which loan program is better for me im foreigner

35 years old thinking about doing a career change as a truck driver I’m just tired of it everyone else is getting wage increases but the trucking industry has barely went up at all. Just curious where ur at in ur flying career and any advice thanks

If i had to sum up my experience with ATP I'd say that it is the equivalent of purchasing something that's cheaply made in China but still paying a premium price for it.

I am 28 years old and I have been on the Fence hard about ATP of going to a school called Peak Aviation in Colorado springs Colorado. I would love some advice, I currently own my own home that I do have some equity in so I could sell the house to help off set some of the cost to pay for the flight training. But if I’m going to sell everything I have worked so hard to achieve I want to make the right choice. Peak Aviation has more flexibility to it but also when you lay it all out and do the math its about 67,000$ vs. ATPs 89,995. I do feel like with my age I need to get in the sky sooner than later but I have attended HIGH end schools to get in the carrier field that I’m currently working in and I know they make a lot of promises to get people in the door, that may not be true. I am also getting married this year in September and will be out of the state for 10 days, witch ATP has told me that they will be able to work around that but all my research has led me to believe that they will just leave me behind at that time or fail me out? I have also read that there can be a huge difference in the level of training you may receive depending on the location you go to, is this true? I also see that ATP has Adds on Indeed hiring CFIs at 60K a year witch seams to good to be true.

current atp student here i agree with this but it just depends on how fast you want into the industry i was willing to pay 20k more to get it done almost a year quicker than anywhere else and to be guarenteed a instructor position when im done so i can knock out those 1500hours