Challenging to Diagnose Misfire on a 2012 Dodge Charger 8-Cylinder

Рет қаралды 53,736

3 жыл бұрын

Bernie heads out to diagnose a 2012 Dodge Charger with a misfire. The misfire is said to be worse at idle and clears up off idle or when driving.
After more than a year of trying to fix this Dodge Charger, it has been labeled unfixable. The vehicle has had almost every part replaced to remedy this misfire and it is still present. New lifters, camshafts, rings, heads and coils.
In this video we see the importance of trusting and understanding the data you gather when diagnosing a vehicle. Adavanced tools like the Intelligent Engine Analyzer (IEA) gives precise direction and displays what is happening inside the conbustion chamber.
During his diagnodsis, we first see how fuel trim shows the issue is more likely ignition, not mechanical or fuel related and both banks of the engine are affected the same.
Using scan data, fuel trim and mode 6 data, we know it's time to hook up the scope. Bernie uses his IEA tailpipe sensor along with a scope lead connected to cylinder 1 to syncronize his data.
Using the IEA software, a cylinder 1 misfire is comfirmed. As the shop described, the misfire did infact clear up as the RPM was raised.
Moving on, the power having of an 8-channel scope is shown. Each cylinder is connected to a single channel on the eSCOPE. Stacking all the primary signals shows no turbelance in cylinder 1, compared to all other cylinder. But Why?
Fuel injector patterns looked a little different, so we perform a fuel injector flow test, which shows normal flow rates, and a new injector on cylinder 1.
Through strict analysis of cylinder and intake pressure, Bernie sees a problem with cylinder 1 when compared to other cylinders. In the end, Bernie finds the wrong lifter installed in cylinder 1.
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eSCOPE ELITE8 with Surface Pro tablet: www.automotivetestsolutions.c...
iEA Intelligent Engine Analyzer: www.automotivetestsolutions.c...
ATS - Automive Test Solutions innovative tools & solutions to make the technicians job easier. www.automotivetestsolutions.com/

Пікірлер: 170

@Properly-Gapped 3 жыл бұрын

Now this is what I call being an elite diagnostician. Using noninvasive methods is where it’s at. He’s correct in saying always trust the data.

@turningwrenchesautorepairm5017 3 жыл бұрын

There where moments that I thought I was listening to Bob Ross.... What Bob was to painting, Bernie is to car diags

@truth4reel 3 жыл бұрын

For reallll!

@gmtech2012 3 жыл бұрын

The ability of this equipment is amazing. The only problem is, after you spend around $12,000 for everything, you still need extensive training on how to use it all. You can't learn this stuff overnight. I'm sure Bernie's knowledge and experience goes back over 25 years.

@scientist100 2 жыл бұрын

He says he started when oscilloscopes were enclosed in a giant room and he got to use them thanks to a known friend or someone close. I believe he said that it was an enterprise entity that was the ones that could get their hands on those type of machines as a business need. So, he was born with this stuff and he created his own tools. He has vast experience and most of us new diag techs will never find this problem because it is probably unique and may not happen if the right parts are ordered to begin with.

@gmtech2012 Жыл бұрын

@@scientist100 yeah you are absolutely right. Of all the vehicles on the road with engine problems, what are the chances of this being the cause? This car obviously had a different problem before the wrong lifters were installed and we'll never know what was originally wrong.

@scientist100 3 ай бұрын

It is more than 25 years bud. I've seen videos where he says that he has never seen something like that before. An old timer himself doesn't know it all but he does have a lot of tricks when it comes to diagnosis but if you notice, he uses the same strategy to get data and the way he diagnoses is based on experience.

@mike-yp1uk 2 ай бұрын

I still see new stuff everyday and the technology requires a scope. Do you want a Cadillac or a base model Buick. Lol you have to love diagnostic stuff to invest this kind of money.

@gmtech2012 2 ай бұрын

@@mike-yp1uk You could get all the same testing equipment for a picoscope and spend $5000, half of what ATS stuff costs. I have the ATS stuff and I believe it's worth the extra money.

@luckyone7656 2 жыл бұрын

Bernie. While most technician will try to follow this video I would have to say probably 90 percent have already left the room. 1) they don't have the equipment 2)they don't have the technical skill to follow what you are saying. With your advanced skill in diagnostic, it still take over 1 to 2 hours to diagnose the problems. It's not just having an elite tool, but how to use it and interpret data. Most shop will just refer the car to dealers move on to something else. But you are one of the best

@gregjones8501 3 жыл бұрын

Man this case study was one of the best yet!!! I can’t wait to get half as good as Bernie is with his diagnostic strategies! I need good troubleshooting in my bays ASAP ‼️😂

@Rtbreezy345 2 жыл бұрын

What’s up greg

@CubasAutomotive 2 жыл бұрын

Right?? Mind blowing! 🤯🤯🤯🤯

@tonyfremont 3 жыл бұрын

Man, that scope setup is incredible. Pretty obvious that Bernie completely drove the design of it. Pico has nothing on this scope, not even close.

@BBS_Robski 3 жыл бұрын

totally agree streets ahead of picoshite !

@vickenkaragozian2041 Жыл бұрын

I agree. I have the Escope elite 4 and all the pressure transducers & i love them.I bought the pico scope the 4425A and i used it 3 times and i couldn't stand it. I sold it.

@scientist100 3 ай бұрын

@@vickenkaragozian2041lol, I have mine stored away and I'm vmsurprised they haven't included more presets to expedite diagnostics. They should include presets like USB oscilloscope and such to help techs diagnose issues quickly.

@johnnysprocketz 2 ай бұрын

@@BBS_Robskilol Bernie can't hang with pico

@baxrok2. 3 жыл бұрын

The "unfixable" car gets fixed with ATS on the case! Excellent case study. Thanks!

@themechanic6117 3 жыл бұрын

Amazing work! I can't imagine how much money was dumped into trying to fix this thing.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 3 жыл бұрын

Bernie your scope is just NUTS! Kudos for designing and building such an amazing piece of technology! That engine sounds like ticking on Keith Defazio's Caravan...bad cam?

@Serpent32776 2 жыл бұрын

Wait… he designed this?😳

@thesmartguy3523 Жыл бұрын

@@Serpent32776 yeppp

@Sipho-Msayi 2 жыл бұрын

This was a tricky one, but Bernie simplified it with his exceptional knowledge and use of tools. What I have observed is that his scope has features that cheap scopes don't have. Thank you for sharing these lessons

@vickenkaragozian2041 3 жыл бұрын

Amazing diagnostic strategy.I have the escope & everyday i love it more & i learn a lot of stuff from Bernie.Great scope, its more than a scope.

@trublue2319 2 жыл бұрын

Do you got 8 channel or 4

@jacktingzon2378 3 жыл бұрын

it will never get any harder than that. you are a grand master on this field sir. knowledge, proper tooling, and trusting the tools and the data is the key. thank you sir!

@Discretesignals 3 жыл бұрын

Top notch diagnosis. Doesn't get any better than that.

@ismarmeskovic 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your time and awesome lesson Mr.Thompson!

@kevintoms5479 3 жыл бұрын

Amazing case study Bernie, the way you work is class leading thank you for sharing with us

@BigDogDiagnostics Жыл бұрын

This is probably one of my favorite videos of yours I’ve seen. They are all gold, but the troubleshooting you performed on this vehicle shows the correct diagnostic process to the T. They fact it had new heads and all those parts thrown at wound be an extremely difficult diagnosis for anyone. You called it Bernie. And stuck with your gut. Love it and thanks for sharing this!

@eliteautomotivediagnostics4424 3 жыл бұрын

Nice work Bernie! Top diagnosis on a tricky vehicle.

@FinalStopMobileAutoTech 3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely wonderful stuff Bernie, God bless and thank you again.

@hanskoef 3 жыл бұрын

That is by far the best case study and diagnostician I've seen. NICE

@kandkob 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you from New Zealand. Great information and love your equipment

@JoelAutomotiveInaction 3 жыл бұрын

what a great case study ,thanks for sharing this is really great diagnostic

@Thunderroad8517 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Bernie. Another one bites the dust! Thanks for teaching us!!!!

@mattw1393 3 жыл бұрын

The level of knowledge is unbelievable. Thanks for sharing.

@randalnichols7377 3 жыл бұрын

Always trust the data! Thank you Mr. Thompson!

@w0070152 3 жыл бұрын

Bernie! Love your videos! Great process. This is my next scope with zoom in capabilities I am looking at purchasing. Thank you for producing a great product. Rob from Australia.

@rickcoleman8903 3 жыл бұрын

It takes a lot of time to get this good at troubleshooting bravo.

@geraldhenke 3 жыл бұрын

This is truly badass, had me on the edge of my seat

@James-fs4rn 3 жыл бұрын

👍My head is still spinning with all that data. Nice work as always Bernie!

@IAMNOSLEEP 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing Bernie... Cheers.

@mikechiodetti4482 3 жыл бұрын

That's the longest I've seen Bernie take to find the problem, but he found it! Plus with his theory of operational knowledge and a great diagnostic tool, it was just a matter of time before he found it!

@josephneal4858 3 жыл бұрын

This one of the most interesting case study's......... ATS came in all for the wrong set of lifters, so now we have learned a ton of valuable information. all but Amazing!!!!! Great skills and great tools!!!! Nice video I look forward to watching them all!!!!

@J1mbo888 3 жыл бұрын

Just a fantastic video. Top work Bernie :-)

@brianb5779 3 жыл бұрын

This guy is like the goat of diagnostics...

@charlespaluha1247 Жыл бұрын

Wow. One of the first things I ever learned as a mechanic was. Make sure that the parts you are installing are the same parts you removed check and double check. Your video just showed and proved. Possibly. That somewhere along the line there was a misfire. In the misfire was corrected but also still existed. Because somebody installed the wrong part without checking to make sure. But once again I appreciate your video. Wonderful video

@paulberumen9258 3 жыл бұрын

Like always, Great video

@sergesimonov1767 3 жыл бұрын

Good analytical work. I start diagnostics by checking the mechanics. I check the vacuum with a piezoelectric sensor. I analyze the opening and closing of valves in degrees. The order of analysis by vacuum is 4-2-1-3 of the engine with the order of operation 1-3-4-2.

@arthurfricchione8119 3 жыл бұрын

Bernie,terrific troubleshooting. Swish I could afford your scope but anyways your explanations are very helpful. I’ve joined your organization so I can watch your videos and am very pleased. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and info. Artie 🇺🇸

@duckmonster921 3 жыл бұрын

Love your videos

@stewartboucaud9919 3 жыл бұрын

Your videos are awesome.

@cyberslacker5150 3 жыл бұрын

One good piece of advise: Don't assume that it's just something wrong with the valves. Who would have thought someone someone replaced the valve lifters with the wrong product! Moral of the story: If someone else has been working on the car, they either made the problem worse or they created new problems. Also, the customer will be mad, not happy, at the last person who really fixed it! The ones before that made the big money fixing nothing! It happens to me all the time!

@darrylblacker4782 2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic work.

@nickhibberd1897 3 жыл бұрын

Really great work through. Enjoyed that. Although not essential, I've never seen a tool's function to superimpose multiple cylinder pressures, using multiple pressure sensors ofcourse.

@googacct 3 жыл бұрын

Great stuff. Another area where I think these techniques would help is in general aviation and diagnosing problems with piston engine aircraft.

@JOHNPHUFNAGEL 3 жыл бұрын

I am blown away!! That is freaking awesome. Could this car been fixed without your tools? I spent lots of money on tools and I am wondering if I bought the wrong equipment.

@Shirkatron 3 жыл бұрын

What a case study

@JBTaylor86 3 жыл бұрын

Wow you’re on another level.......that fault must of been built in by one of the previous repairs.

@saiautomotivemilton.7128 2 жыл бұрын

awesome video.

@mike-yp1uk 2 ай бұрын

I knew Bernie would get me hooked on this scope based on how he uses it. I like watching him solve the mystery with his 8 channel crystal ball. I'm ready to pull the trigger. The other scopes pale in comparison. Lol

@richardnilsen5 Жыл бұрын

Superiority demonstrated By the master 👍 great

@marksprague4454 3 жыл бұрын

Nice painting of a picture. Very nice.

@mikejmardis 3 жыл бұрын

Bernie, I always learn a ton from you. As frustrating as it may be for you; you sometimes to forget to dummie down where you are in your diag. IE- where you are connected, what we are looking at, what’s a known good, why you choose to move in a certain direction..... . Thank you for your contributions to the field.

@CubasAutomotive 2 жыл бұрын

Wow. Absolutely amazing! Excellent diag & process! I can only hope to eventually get to this level. Working on it. Thank you Mr Thompson!

@Discretesignals 3 жыл бұрын

Wonder if a MDS bidirectional test would have given you a clue also. If you see number one not deactivate during the test with your pressure transducer installed in that cylinder could clue you to lifter issue?

@jgeorges3061 3 жыл бұрын

Bernie, first happy new year to u and urs what an AWESOME video full of great information with the ATS scope and scanner and the approach you used to solve this problem excellent thanks for all the time u spend to show all that with much respect to you enjoyable as always. cheeeeeers

@IamReadyToRock 8 ай бұрын

excelent, thnks from Peru

@Hscope-User 3 жыл бұрын

Great diagnostic Bernie, 💪 To understand how things should work and how they reflect on the ocilogram

@grimey4life5 3 жыл бұрын

So none of the shops could figure out that it still had a mechanical top end issue with how bad it sounds running? The lifter noise is so loud that you can barely hear him talking when he is by the engine!

@denverboii89 Жыл бұрын

Me looking to just replace the spark plugs for a misfire lol this video just floored very very well executed

@Carlitosway211 2 жыл бұрын

Kick ass job!

@bartscave 3 жыл бұрын

Great diag! I always thought the exhaust and intake pockets were supposed to be even. Was the difference just inherent to the 5.7?

@mr.hammer7080 Жыл бұрын

I learned a lot

@shawnbauman5463 3 жыл бұрын

Built in problems from a "fix." Unbelievable. Awesome work.

@brianmason8400 3 жыл бұрын

Oddly enough, I've seen it before. Tech unknowingly causes a bigger problem, trying to fix a problem.

@billrimmer5596 3 жыл бұрын

I feel like I just gave birth. Good one!!

@frankjohn4302 3 жыл бұрын

Was worried shop wasnt gonna get the go ahead to open engine up.Glad to actually see the problem

@jpepejr1 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome!!!

@mike-yp1uk 2 ай бұрын

This scope has a lot of capabilities

@billyr9840 3 жыл бұрын

Nice !

@jesseruiz2337 11 ай бұрын

Bernie is fucken awesome!

@JoesAutoElectric 3 жыл бұрын

Looks like the 8 shops who worked on it before you down voted. Great job Bernie. This is a crazy one!

@mr.hammer7080 Жыл бұрын

Good video l like

@eduardoyepez7358 3 жыл бұрын

Followed along till about 10 minutes in to the video.. then I felt like an idiot 😂

@jesperpedersen1225 3 жыл бұрын

Great video💪🏻

@DeseanWick Жыл бұрын

Took me too long to find this type of resource, I must say.

@SamuriaPizzaCat 3 жыл бұрын

Bern 1 is clearly a car whisperer

@extremetv2024 3 жыл бұрын

Nice👍🏾

@shaunsautorepairs5410 3 жыл бұрын

Awsome diagnostic abilitys....nothing more to say...

@brianmason8400 3 жыл бұрын

Every once in awhile, i think I'm good. I watch these vids and it's all but tail between the legs humbling.....

@kennethbode2017 3 жыл бұрын

makes you wonder how this all started. you would assume the correct lifters were there at one time or it should have missed from the factory.

@proanswers 3 жыл бұрын

exacty, So Bernie chased a misfire created by the "other" shop however what was the ORGINAL misfire or issue with the vehicle could be something completely different.

@unencumbered 3 жыл бұрын

I'd guess it started with a spun roller and then had the wrong set installed by accident.

@tonyfremont 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe it did miss from the factory, but nobody really cared, or higher oil pressure in the new engine his the problem. I can't see any shop actually doing something so obvious as this was. The problem was literally cast into the erroneous part, in big bold letters. I don't know much about these particular engines, but that rack doesn't exactly look like a high wear item, but maybe it is? Any experts, please chime 8n and set me straight. For 45 minutes, I was pondering how one lobe on a cam was out of time, especially after the cam had been replaced. Worn lifters, loves etc would cause late opening, not early opening. I was expecting a mushroomed lifter or one tightened to the point of no lash. That's about the only things I can imagine that would create early valve opening.

@unencumbered 3 жыл бұрын

@@tonyfremont Last one I did, about 1yr ago, I had difficulty getting parts...national backorder up here north of the border. From what I understand very common for the roller to seize and take out the cam. Certainly a huge oversight but certainly possible or could they not get the right part? Don't think any store worth its salt would do that - who knows but I'd bet money that's how it went.

@billykendrick8989 3 жыл бұрын

@@tonyfremont i was thinking he miss spoke may be the non mds lifter does,nt collapse and this creates the problem but i would think the valve would hit the piston , opening to late or not enough will definatly create a miss fire.

@duanedonaldson2262 3 жыл бұрын

I could see the old heads being kept as a core to be re-maned, were these lifters also kept by the old shop, does the customer know which shop made the mistake and do you know if there are going back to file a complaint? Does this customer have a case in your opinion Bernie?

@hightttech 3 жыл бұрын

Nice Job. I have a chicken / egg question in my head: when did the incorrect part get installed?? This all started over a misfire, so i assume, somewhere along the line, the original problem got solved and this problem was created. Shop that last touched cam should pay Bernie and the latest shop.

@johnnysprocketz 2 ай бұрын

This guy has four pressure transducers going at once.

@ottonielhernandez3611 3 жыл бұрын

Master

@fernandomoran5979 2 жыл бұрын

Grasias 👍

@RideBikes_Walkplaces Ай бұрын

When youre doing ybe injector flow rate test, j presume the gas is being injected directly into the cylinder. If there a chance of the vehicle hydraulicing the cylinders when its next turned over? Or does it evaporate? If it evaporates, i presume you can't do this with a diesel?

@miltonscornertobylove5068 2 жыл бұрын

Waoh I don’t even know what to say other than damn he’s a bad ass!

@happy543210 3 жыл бұрын

but what was the original problem?

@lovetolearn5253 3 жыл бұрын

Good stuff really good stuff. I think alot of people get Intimidated by stuff as advance as this. To me it's like everything else the more you do it the more you learn the more you understand. If you cut corners you cut learning. The more you do right the faster you get.

@senayghebregiorgis3797 2 жыл бұрын

What kind of scanner you recommend me sir as independent mechanic

@davesage9190 3 жыл бұрын

50:19 What makes you think the customer is going to be happy? They're going to be stuck with the bill for all the stuff you mentioned was replaced. And no one will admit they screwed up and put the wrong parts in it. That's the reality of the situation. At least you were able to get to the bottom of it before the bill got any higher. Good work.

@billsmith2212 3 жыл бұрын

Were these parts put in at the factory or when the heads were replaced ? Were they mixed in at the parts counter or possibly boxed wrong ? You can't be too careful , especially with internal engine parts . You have to know your limits . As soon as " it can't be fixed " is mentioned , you have to bring in the right people . Even though this has a special cam , etc. , on a crude , basic level , would doing a cranking vacuum test with a vacuum guage at least indicate a problem ? That certainly has it's limits . But if it at least puts you in the right direction , it would be worth a shot . Great diagnosis . Top tier !

@Shirkatron 3 жыл бұрын

For a car to have this many parts “shotgunned” at it, I have to believe it was all covered under power train warranty.

@davesage9190 3 жыл бұрын

@@Shirkatron It's a 2012 vehicle. So I doubt it.

@duanedonaldson2262 3 жыл бұрын

@@billsmith2212 CHRY is known for wrong parts in the wrong box, I am sure it will be easy to prove who put the wrong parts in. If its further back down the line, I would hold them responsible for all work done afterward for sure.

@Shirkatron 3 жыл бұрын

As A dealership tech I’ve helped customers recoup money spent on parts and diag. For example: customer had a shift shock problem on a 2012 outback 5 speed. Transmission shop installed a new valve body, then installed a torque converter. Customer brought me the car after the transmission shop tried to upsale a remanded transmission. The problem was fixed with a software update. There was no TSB to address this specific concern. Manufacture customer service investigated the problem and agreed that the problem could only be resolved at a dealership via a software patched (or speciality shop with shop tool software). Manufactured covered 75% of the repairs from the transmission shop.

@SeasideDoowop18 2 жыл бұрын

How much does this cost to fix I have cylinder 2 and 6 messed up on mine and it’s an 8?

@honestmechanic7974 3 жыл бұрын

Why would the non DOD lifter cause the misfire at idle? At idle the MSD system would not be activating so wouldn't all the lifters be solid? Trying to understand why the lifter is causing the problem. Great diag as usual Bernie. So much knowledge.

@bakaton0875 2 жыл бұрын

Same question, why would it cause a misfire at idle when MDS is not active. I am dealing with the same issue, a bad lifter wiped a cam lobe so I went with MDS delete and now all of the MDS cylinders have misfires at idle only... I am going to swap the cam to a non MDS cam next but what in theory is causing this especially at idle when MDS is not active so all the MDS lifters should act as non MDS ones??

@fascistpedant758 2 жыл бұрын

Good question. The lifter may have a little built in lash to relieve pressure on the locking pin. The cam lobe would then need greater duration to take up the lash before opening the valve.

@ssrbob Жыл бұрын

Man made problems are always the hardest to diagnose.

@G31mR Жыл бұрын

So, was that part installed by a repair shop? Surely it didn't come from the factory that way..... Please explain what "fuel trim" is. Thank you.

@Arphand 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Bernie, that was great. Just curious if the in cylinder patterns of good mds vs non mds cylinders should be exactly the same?

@DIYDaveOK 3 жыл бұрын

Given the crazy history of the car, incant help but wonder if one problem was fixed, albeit incorrectly, leading to a different but similar problem, which Bernie just identified? I feel like I'm actually learning something in these videos because I actually suspected a valve lifter issue when the cam timings were shown to be ok. There may be hope for a chronic learner like me after a!! Thanks Bernie.

@eddquiroz6556 3 жыл бұрын

Where can i buy a scanner just like yours ?

@carlm2590 3 жыл бұрын

Wow rhis guy's freaking good!

@billykendrick8989 3 жыл бұрын

how in hell did it ever get the wrong lifters installed, if it was the original problem then it must have come from the factory like that if not then it must of had a wiped cam in the past and a dummy installed the wrong lifters, what is the answer, it would have helped in the diagnosis.