Answers the question in the first minute of the video.....You truly are a force for good in this world.

You sir have guts to say the answer so soon. I still watched the rest of the video out of respect and interest.

What I like about Gene is he explains everything as simple as possible with measurements to back up his statements. His goal is to educate every audio and video enthusiast and help us getting the best out of our money. This video is worth watching. Keep it up Gene!

I run an install company and have been installing for about 20 years, and while what he says is generally true with regards to measurements, a lot of these perceived differences would only be audible if you are running larger speakers full range, at high volume, especially with transients. If you use the internal crossover to hand off to a powered subwoofer, you are taking such a huge amount of responsibility off the receiver and improving its ability to perform, that you probably won't hear deficiencies in real word situations.

Why in the heck the channel only has 146k subscribers is beyond me. Should be in the millions.

I got the Sony STR-DH1080 and while it was around $500, it sounds absolutely amazing! So lively and dynamic! I'm sure it isn't that great by a technical standpoint, but my ears love it regardless!

Back in the later part of 2017 I found that I was listening to more music over watching movies. At the time I was using a Denon AVR- 4311CI as a pre-amp with Wyred 4 Sound and Emotiva amps. Prior to the Denon I had a Onkyo TX-NR906 (HDMI board failure resulted in the Denon). My front speakers are Mirage OMD-28's. The Denon did a good job for movies but when listening to music the sound was tinny and dull. One day while at a Best But Magnolia Design Center I had the opportunity to listen to a Arcam AVR-550. Other AVR's in the listening room from Denon, Marantz, Integra, and Pioneer. All the aforementioned AVR's cost over 2k and the only model I remember was the Pioneer SC-LX901 because we have the Pioneer in our living room. No room correction was applied to any of the AVR's. Switching back and forth between the AVR's while listening to music the wife and I liked the sound of the Arcam over the other's. My wife does not share my interest in the hobby and is very frugal. The source used was a OPPO 205 and the speakers were B&W 804 D3's. There were other people in the listening room and everyone agreed the Arcam sounded the best and it was the most expensive at $3,200. The Denon came in last place, the wife and I thought the Pioneer SC-LX901 was the second best sounding and the Marantz and Integra were tied in 3rd place. They had a open box Arcam AVR-550 and I purchased it. There was an issue initially with setting up the room correction (Dirac). Once it was set up the proof was in the sound. The open box AVR-550 was only discounted $200 so I returned it and decided to purchase a new one instead. None were in stock and ETA for a new was over month until it was received. So then I decided to have a look at the Anthem AVM-60. I already had a Wyred 4 Sound ST-1000MKII that I had been using with my Denon and a Emotiva XPA-3. I gave the Anthem AVM-60 a try and while it was nice we felt it was lacking in the 2 channel sound for music when compared to the Arcam. I then came across a used Arcam AVR-850 for a price of $3,100 and I purchased it. Maybe it is the Dirac room correction but once I starting using the Arcam over the Denon it felt like a blanket had been removed from my speakers. I was initially looking at replacing my speakers (Mirage OMD-28's) but once I incorporated the Arcam into my system the thought of replacing my speakers was no longer needed. I am using a Oppo 205, Bluesound Vault 2i. along with Tidal for music listening.

Brilliant video. I've owned lots of AV amps, from Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer. I've had flagship amps from all three manufacturers including the Denon AVC-A1SR, Yamaha DSP-AX1, Pioneer SX-LX85 and I've also used budget amps from them. The difference from a listening point of view is 2 fold from my experience, it comes in power in AV soundtracks and refinement in music presentation. On the budget receivers you get impressive AV performance at quiet to normal levels but music in 2 channel mode is weak, on the high amps you get real power in AV soundtracks, room shaking ability and in 2 channel music listening you get level of quality that can match dedicated stereo amps, highly acceptable. Your video does an excellent job of explaining why. Personally I wouldn't recommend people buy a budget amp today, you are much better off if you buy a 2nd hand flagship amp from 10 years ago which are available for similar prices and just using the 2nd HDMI output from your bluray to the amp purely for the audio. You will get vastly better sound quality and most people do not need Atmos processing because its so difficult to install the full array of speakers.

I’m glad you acknowledged the Denon AVR-X8500H at the end of this video simply because I don’t have the room for separates. And the 8500 does sound freakin amazing! But again, it’s a $4000 AVR! Great video as always Gene! Thank you!

Gene, great to see the high production quality video, it's like a higher def version of audioholic's videos of a few years ago! Unfortunately I'm often strapped for time these days, so these short, sweet, and to the point videos are great in addition to the livestreams. Keep up the great work!

I feel like the kid who walks into the wrong classroom in middle school. I thought my $700 receiver was expensive. I'll show myself out.

Not all of us are out buying, or can afford to drop 2 or 3 grand on a stereo receiver, or amplifier. So, what about the differences between, say a Marantz, Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Onkyo, or Denon costing between $400 and $700, by comparison to a Sony, JVC, Pioneer, Kenwood, or Technics costing between $100 and $350? That's what I'm interested in on my budget. I suspect a large majority of listeners are looking at receivers in those price ranges.

That was an excellent presentation. I liked what you said at the end about the receivers from 20+ years ago: "It was just a different time, it was a more civilized time for a different era." Very creatively said.

First time here. As a computer enthusiast and a novice electronics enthusiast, you’re perhaps the only person who is actually speaking my language! So excited to explore your channel and reviews in my quest to buy a good receiver!

Your audio reviews are IMO the best. Yes to all the comments you made regarding cheep vs expensive receivers. I use to work at a few hi-fi stores back in the day and definitely have played with and have done critical listening on many types of AV gear. Having good clean proweful amplification and pre out voltage has always been a key thing I would point out to customers. Personally today my home Theater has a Marantz AV8802 and I have 3 old bit good Adcom amps along with 11 ga wore and 2 SVS PB 16 ultra, so great sound is not a problem. Keep the straight no nonsense reviews coming. And OMG I'm so over all the crazy hype all the marketing folks use to use on all the crazy expensive speaker wire.

Note to self: Anything below $3,000 is shit. Now to explain this to my wife.

Great content as always, minor criticism for the channel however. You guys really need to invest into some soft light boxes or light umbrellas. Your current light source is super harsh and creates really harsh shadows. Don’t need anything super fancy just two soft boxes and you will be looking a helluva lot better than current setup. Happy Holidays and keep up the great work!

"Damnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not an audiophile."

The microphone choices in these videos are different eras. This was part of the Tribble era 🤣. Great content as always so a huge thank you, Gene

Hi Gene. Thanks for all the time you spend on these analyses. Your assumptions, stated frequently, were: 4-ohm speakers playing full-range at reference volume. This might represent your room with esoteric speakers and no budget constraints, but for at least me, with 8-ohm speakers rolling into powered subwoofers, this baseline is irrelevant. The real-world question is closer to: How much AUDIBLE difference is there at reference level between a $1,000 AVR and a $20,000 stack of separates in a 15x20x8' properly treated home theater with 5.1 8-ohm (rated - given lower-z dips) speakers rolling into properly-placed powered subwoofers of sufficient power to pressurize the room? No qualms with your build-quality analysis - business is business - and I have neither gear, time, knowledge nor desire to validate your measurements (and I trust you), but your initial listening environment premise might not represent very many people who are more concerned with spending enough to get the best sound they will be able to HEAR vs. spending 20x as much to get the best measurements that they would never be able to pick out in blind listening in their own non-esoterrically-equipped theaters or listening rooms. Maybe do an analysis like that in the future, with general breakpoints where you believe an audible advantage might be obtained. Thanks as always!

Don’t know wtf you were talking about, but now I’m researching all this stuff . Awesome video

I’m still learning but I commend you for teaching me what little I understood in your video lol

I just bought a Marantz NR1711, which by all accounts is a 'budget' model for this brand but it plays phenomenally well in my small living room where output at lower volumes is sufficient . It has preamp outputs which will enable me to hook up an amp later if I need to service a bigger space and drive some bigger speakers.

I have the silver AVR-X8500H, absolutely love it. Drives everything I've hooked to it perfectly, never had one problem with it.

Tomorrow night is Christmas eve! and Gene is going to shimmy himself through your 15 amp line, check your impedance switch on the back of your receiver to see if you've been a good little Audioholic, and if you have, he'll use his frosty fairy breath to cryo-treat your cables. He's not into cookies, but if you leave out graphs, he's been known to give quite the nod. If you have a dedicated 20 amp line, he won't have to shimmy, and may even take the extra time to tweak your toe in just liiiiiiiiitle bit.

I'm getting seasick watching you sway back and forth LOL

My father's Pioneer receiver from 1969 sounds amazing and is still going strong. My JVC receiver from 1999 is still going today. I'm 39, and my neighbors (have a condo) don't understand why I have a rack set up. They love the sound though. My 15 REALLY doesn't get why I love sound and why It's important to me.

I feel like most of this video was discussing peak performance rather than sound quality. You say yourself, whether or not the differences are audible depends on a number of factors. Disregarding room correction and other sound processing, I suspect there is little or no audible difference between an affordable receiver and a flagship receiver when both are running comfortably within their performance limits.

It is so miniscule in difference. I have owned both and to a trained ear you really need to stress yourself to find a difference. Benchmark tests are a totally different. It is like the "snake oil" cables they try to push on you as the best but cost 10x more.

Should the question be ...Is the average person able to tell the difference between chap and expensive receiver if the functionality is identical ??

Wow this was perhaps the best explanation on av recievers ever! Great job!

As someone that started with a Yammy RX-v620 & worked my way into separates, I can attest to his statement. I'm not someone that has an extra $100k I can just throw into my home system so I'm always researching & trying to get the best bang for my buck........& guys like Gene help.

Geez this guy knows what he's talking about

“I m not gonna make you watch the whole video i m gonna give you the answer upfront.” Hits like subscribe and posts a comment for this awesome guy. Still watched the whole video anyway!

Yes, I went from an older Yamaha to an Onkyo with the same Klipsch speakers and man did those speakers come alive. Night and day difference.

I have the Onkyo TX-NR6050. I have my Paradigm Cinema 70ct series hooked up to it. I use this in my room though, so it's perfect for me. I have everything hooked up to it. My Roku Ultra, consoles, UHD Blu-ray player and PC. It all goes to my Samsung 43 inch Qn90b. It all depends on what you're trying to drive, the size of the room and how loud you want it. If you're only doing a 5.1 setup in a smaller room like myself, a $500-$1000 model is all you need. That all being said, great job and great info here. Awesome work.

an interesting purchasing avenue i found was getting a used surround processor, those really goes for cheap on the used market, then get two power amplifiers. i saw some TIBO PA150, those are 2 x 150 watts rms in 8 ohms. this way you have no problem with pre outs and you can easily upgrade only the power amps in the future. starting with 4 channels is great, all you need for surround sound and most people can't place the center anywhere good anyways.

Listened to many receivers... I don't like when they add any 'color' to the signal, most measure extremely flat. So the difference being described is mostly the power output and that's not an issue for those of us who aren't driving $50k RBH Sound Reference speakers. Good modern speakers aren't hard to drive, especially when you set them up for HT with a 80Hz cutoff for sub, which is powered. So I don't agree with Gene's conclusion. It REALLY depends on the situations. For most people, it's really not worth spending more. It only matters to people driving inefficient speakers in huge rooms at reference levels.

I was expecting a lot of marketing BS from this video, but you really nailed it. I've been designing and building amplifiers on and off my whole life. I've been repairing and modifying .consumer equipment too. I built a simple amplifier, based on Doug Self's "blameless" topology. I used a lot of salvage parts. I used big beefy Sanken transistors on the output, huge heatsinks, and enormous transformers. It's only 80 watts/ channel 8 ohm or 160 watts/channel 4 ohm (continuous and I mean forever), but it is so clean and powerful. Nothing touches it except for my Nakamichi, which delivers the power but isn't as clean as my home brew. I have a stack of brain dead AV receivers in a closet. I repaired a few and hotwired a couple of them. Although some of these are "high end" costing $1000 new, they sound terrible. They huff and puff driving just one pair of 8 ohm speakers. One of them, a 20 year old Onkyo, sounded pretty good when I hotwired around the digital crap and used it as just a 4 channel power amplifier. But the rest really stink. I gave some away and use the rest to scavenge for prototype circuits. I disagree with you about the 4/8 ohm switch. This switch changes the power supply voltage (it switches between transformer taps) and keeps you from exceeding SOA and tripping the nanny circuits. Everything is undersized and your equipment (including your speakers) is safer in the 4 ohm position. Even most 8 ohm speakers aren't really 8 ohm, and 4 ohm speakers are the norm today. Thanks for cutting through the voodoo and crapola that usually surrounds hi fi equipment.

Answers the question right away. So we stay till the end respect 🙏

The higher end gear sounds so transparent that you can hear how poorly most material is recorded.

Marantz does have $500 receivers. And most are buying $200 Denon ..onkyo..Yamaha. And they all sound Very good.

Good review. A Word to the wise, if you run cheap input cables and wimpy speaker wire, it don't matter what power the amps drive! Spend extra on high end cabling as well! If your amps are pushing high current through skinny lamp cord, it will clip amps before you get to meaningful SPL as well. Just like plumbing, bigger pipes equal more efficient flow. As well, the temptation to wrap/wind speaker cables that are way too long increases the AC Impedence, choking the current. Get the best from whatever you have with quality cabling! Just sayin'...

I just stumbled across this video. I have owned mid range Sony amps for years and years, I finally invested in a Denon 6500 and wish I could relive how I felt the first 5 minutes of my first ever listen in my living room. What struck me most was how “musical” it sounds.

Very nice video and straight to the point. I also learned a lot! Thanks To answer your question about expensive receivers sounding better. Honestly, if you don’t get the room acoustics right, the only benefits you are getting is more output and features. But, I do agree that a more expensive receiver will sound better, but you may have to spend quite a lot of money to get better sound. Just make sure room acoustics and speakers are not going to be a limiting factor. Get the basics right before you make any upgrades to the system.

Good information. Personally, I'll put my money into a 2 ch amp and pre-amp. I listen to music, and watch movies.

Subscribed because he told the answer at the beginning then proved it later. The hero we deserve.

I found similar results. I went from a venerable $1000.00 unit (still not cheap) to a $2500.00 one. (On sale for $1600.00). Found the newer unit could drive my speaker to higher volume and vocals from the center channel was clearer/cleaner. I contribute the difference to a more robust power supply and beefier amps that puts more current through out the system. What I have noticed with a lot of sub $1k units is the bass seems to be a bit more flabby, less defined, or the treble response has a little too much bite.

Thanks for this. I think I am going to keep my Denon 2805 now. I really don't need Dolby Atmos anyway. I also have an old Denon pro logic from the 90's. It was my first surround receiver and probably ran me around 500 or so. It is incredibly heavy and outweighs the 2805 by far. Amazing how they built them back in the day.

wow fin great video man. Love the no BS explanation. We need more videos like this

Agree 100% , I went from a $500 amp to $5000 amp and the difference was unbelievable. Night and day.

Interesting video. I am not an audiophile. I have a couple newer $500-600 5.1 AV receivers (Yamaha & Pioneer). I also bought a couple legacy receivers that were in the $1,000 range back in the day (Marantz SR7500 & Denon AVR2400 with no hdmi, each bought for under $100 used). I find it difficult to hear much, if any, difference between them, when playing music or watching movies at similar volume levels. I love cranking up the volume when watching movies or sometime when playing music. Bottom line for me... I think they all sound great. I use the old school beasts for music only, perfect for my living room and my workshop, and I use the modern-day receivers for my home theater and family room, where we watch movies. I love having all the latest inputs and outputs, and the latest surround sound modes in the newer receivers.

I went from a denon s920h to a marantz sr7012. I thought the denon sounded good until I heard the marantz. The marantz was so clear and dynamic.

This is classroom type video. Good job Gene

I have tried my refurbished Marantz 2265,2325,1200b/120, 240/3200 against Onkyo 706, Marantz 6009 . I love the old solid state unit much vetter than the modern SS recievers.

I used to have an old Yamaha HTR Level reciever. I think it was a 5785. It at the time I thought had good sound quality but it was my first reciever. I now run an Adventage RX-A1000. Older model but it has better DACS, better transformer, and more power than my old 5785. And night and day difference. I run 8ohm speakers (always have) when I pushed the old reciever it started clipping but this new one with klipsch speakers is crystal clean all the way up to where my neighbors dont like me. Amazing difference!!!

Thanks for answering the question first. Today it is important to have the choice to continue listening. That is why you got my sub. Thanks.

Really enjoy your vlogs. I was curious as to how you'd deem a Denon AVR-4400H and a Denon AVR-3500X in comparison? Thanks again for your reviews and feature-rich vlogs!!

I've definitely noticed among the cheaper receivers in my price range that the sound quality varies a lot despite the 'specs' being very similar. Sony switched to Onkyo. Big improvement in surround processing and overall clarity. Onkyo has less high frequency distortion when pushed but sounds rather dry. Switched to a Yamaha, better in all regards to the Onkyo. Yamaha is warmer, clearer, highs slightly rolled off but that could just be cleaner output. All sub $500 receivers.

That's why I still run the Yamaha receiver I bought for $850 in 1998. I just output everything from my PC so I can have more modern DACs.

Hey! can you do a straight forward best receiver by price range and why?

Time for these manufacturers pull their heads out of their arses. Better to sell a receiver with maybe 5 channel amps with good pre-amp out puts and realize tou can't put everything in one box. I think we've gone backwards.

Appreciate your fair talk It is valuable if you talk about a list of good mid-range recovers like 90s 2000s and now last ten years This will help a lot of people out there trying to shop a used amp or reliever

Cheaper receivers are a waste of money. You can tell the difference right away. but many never had a high-end AV receiver. in that sense, they don't know the difference. back in 1997, I bought an Onkyo TX-DS838. made in Japan, it is still working perfectly today. took me a while to part ways, After listening to Gene reviewing the Yamaha RX-A6A and seeing the built quality I decided that's my next receiver. (Since I don't buy a new unit every 5 years) It's like asking if a $500 TV will perform as well as a $2000 TV. the answer is obvious, You get what you paid for. there is no magic in this field.

First, your video is very informative, and I appreciate your using detailed FFT measurements over a single 1kHz measurement that is almost useless in evaluating the distortion of an amplifier. Your main argument against sub $2-3k receivers is driving full range 4ohm loads. That seems to be a fairly niche use case. I run 8 ohm DIY speakers with an 80Hz crossover to my subwoofer. Looking at DATS impedance sweeps, my Atmos speakers have the lowest dip to 6 ohms in the 200-800Hz range. In our small to medium sized media room at about 20db below reference where we typically watch movies, I still don't even hear a difference with eco mode on or off on my Marantz 6012 driving 9 channels with 2 channels externally driven for my 7.1.4 setup. I run it with eco set to auto so it can ramp up the voltage if needed. The reality is that in the typical HT environment each speaker is rarely pulling more than a few watts of power. The exceptions are large dedicated rooms at reference levels. Most people find that 20-30db below reference is better in our smaller rooms compared to a commercial cinema.

Thanks for the informative video - yes it would be nice to be able to afford $2500 for an AVR but most people can't and even if can it's not always a great idea. The way I've gone about it over last 15 years with the constantly changing tech (mostly HDMI bandwidth and newer surround decoding) is that I just plan on buying a $750 to $1000 AVR every five years for my 5.1 home theatre and then I have a higher end 2 channel preamp/amp/DAC. I have my Oppo balanced out to 2 channel and then HDMI out to AVR so the only real annoyance with this setup is speakers and I ended up with small satellite speakers and sub for 5.1 and then nicer floorstanding for 2 channel.

I had a Yamaha RX- V2600 for 12 years, great box. Started having problems so I got a Sony STR-DN1080. I have 20 year old B&W 601/602 and a Klipsch 12" and this new system blows away my Yamaha at half the price. Sorry, the clean dialog and mostly the 2 channel sweet spot on vinyl and cds with my Grant Fidelity tube amp is outstanding. My ear test for me of course,. Tile floors and a 5.1 system. Maybe the "brightness" of the Sony is well matched to wake up my B&Ws but I'll take it. Love your videos.

I have an Onkyo TX-RZ820 and a set of Energy Take 5.1 speakers. Cheap? Yes. Functional in every way I currently want or need? Absolutely. Sound more than good enough - even amazing? Yes! That said, I know how much better a $2000 receiver with comparable speakers will sound. A $15000 receiver? Forget about it. Yes, the expensive stuff sounds expensive if you're feeding it a good signal. Even so, I love my little Onkyo and those Energy speakers. No, it's not overheating or falling apart. No, it's not glitching out. It's absolutely taking everything I'm throwing at it, and it handles every signal I can give it. It handles all of my sources with aplomb. If I were still an "audiophile" in the same vain as I was in the 90's, I'd be pushing hard for something better. As it is, at the volume levels and with the sources I use, I'm more than happy with my cheap gear. In an average-sized living room, with a decent set of 8-ohm or 6-ohm speakers, at usable volumes, you won't have an issue with these cheaper amps.

Right now I have a Denon 4308 (around $2700 new but paid $320 on Ebay) connected to 10 JBL speakers in 7 channel stereo mode. The impedance on the center and the rear channels is 4 ohm but a sub woofer is being used and I have the all seven channels crossed at 250hz. It sounds alot better than the Denon 3808 (around $1700 new) that I have tested in the same room and same speakers etc.HOWEVER I also have several Denon 4806's and I also have tested one of them in this room.. No comparison. PERIOD..Over 6volts of distortion free pre-amp output for starters. THX Ultra2 certified. Power Supply has a large toroidal transformer but it also has 3 Ecore units. Two are hidden under the bottom of the receiver and the other one is behind the source selector knob. What I like about the 4806 is they can be had for less than $400 dollars in many cases yet they cost $4000 new. My first 4806 is in my living room running 4 ceiling speakers and 7 other surround speakers. It's not running full range as I have a subwoofer in that room also.I read that the Denon 4806 is designed to run speakers as low as 3.2 ohms. All I know is that mine has no problem running a total of 11 speakers on 7 channels.. Living room/kitchen is open floor plan and the 4806 has no problem hitting that 105db level (which is WAY too loud anyway) When I look at the inside of the new Denon 8500 that retails for $3000 to $4000 dollars I don't see how it can perform at the same level...They look CHEAP...They are made in Japan and weigh over 50 pounds but the amp section is a joke compared to the 4806/5308.. The Denon 5308 doesn't look as robust as a 4806 on the inside and the pre-amp section is not as strong but it's still an awesome receiver that can be had for around $1000 used..When I use these old receivers in surround sound set ups I run the video signal straight to the TV and use the fiber optic out for input..Don't use the surround modes either...Everyone prefers 7/9 channel stereo even with movies. I have used some newer 7 and 5 channel Denon receivers and they are horrible...Especially playing music and in 5/7/9 channel stereo mode...Just pathetic...That's why it's hard to find photos of the newer Denon receivers with the top removed...They only show the top of the line units...(which still look very cheap and compromised)...ALso if you prefer 2 channel, many of the older top of the line receivers will lay down well over 200 watts per channel in 2 channel mode @ 8 ohms...Not picking on Denon by the way..They are my favorite and I installed many new 3805/3806's back in the day when I did more home theater...Everyone loved those receivers back then..They had very good reviews and my customers were often stunned at how good they sounded..What is amazing about those receivers is I have bought some of them recently for $100 dollars in excellent shape...($1300 new) They still get the job done..

I would recommend external amplification as the way to go from the very beginning, then switch to passive for upgrades. It may sound inverted to popular believes but it is for one simple reason: If you start your investment with just a good pair of autoamplified speakers you will have great sound even if you don't have an AVR yet, and neither fancy FX on movies. But then, when you get more into the hobby you can buy a proper AVR and more speakers. But this time the new speakers can perfectly be passive and cheaper (as only the main pair is critical for music and you ready got a good amplifier for the others ), maybe except the sub which really deserves special attention and no corners cutting. The other way you will start with generalised mediocrity in all components, a crappy AVR and crappy speakers, so you will have to replace everything later. But as it cost too much you will be tempted to only upgrade to external amplification because your AVR is not up to the task and you can not afford a full replacement... just to discover that it is not good enough yet because the AVR. So start with a really good pair of speakers and everything else will come naturally.

Would love to see a short video on receivers you have tested new and vintage that lends them selves to be used as a clean pre-amp

My old (circa 2001) Onkyo 7.1 flagship was $1k, and it's internal amps were remarkable. That chassis is also a beast. It's heavy! I did some A/B testing against higher end stand-alone amps back in 2003, and the sound quality was right up there with them. There were some minor nuance differences, but in the end I chose to keep running it as my sole amplifier as the cost didn't warrant the results. I even ran tube pre's, different DACs, different cables (speaker and line level), and played the whole "how much does $$$ vs $ buy you" subjective listening tests with all of it. What I found was once you get into good quality (shielded wire and solid contacting termination), the point of diminishing returns was hit pretty quick. Were I to do it all over again, say my baby dies and isn't fixable - I'd buy whatever I needed for HDMI switching and some kind of preamp, then just buy dedicated amplifiers which meet my needs. I recently got a Dayton HTA20BT tube pre-amp integrated bluetooth amplifier which sounds fantastic (once the tubes burned in), and look forward to A/Bing that against the old iron. Yep, 6wpc into 8 ohms might be the winner vs 180 on the mains. It plays plenty loud when paired with a powered sub, and I run a 400w Crown bridged for my sub anyway so I can rattle the neighbors walls. :)

It has too many variables to state that one will immediately offer any real performance improvement in practice. The question for me is ultimately how big is the room, what SPL is needed, how efficient are the speakers, and can the AVR deliver sufficient power without significant problems that would likely be audible. A small NYC flat using easy to drive bookshelves in a 5.1 configuration could work fine off of a few $300 receivers I've had over the years. In addition, I find the premise that the DAC will perform better in higher price offerings not necessarily true. Amir at ASR (AudioScienceReview) did measurements on various AVRs including Anthem. They all seem to settle on a "good enough" solution, no-where near the objective performance of dedicated DACs. This of course is not to say it's audible, that's questionable, but is worth mentioning. I guess I could sum up this simpler: horses for courses. If one understands their application and exercises compromise mitigation then the right balance can be reached.

You just crushed my setup😩😂 well good thing I’m always a little behind and buy my receivers that’s one or two years old so I can get them cheep from all the audio freaks that just needs the brand new one🤪 I just come in and say I take that junk for 100 bucks🤷‍♂️🤪😂

I went from a 7.1 channel sony dh520 receiver that was about 299 bucks, to a sony 7.2 sony dn1040 for $599, and there's a big difference. My speakers are polk audio t15- 5.25 inch bookshelf speakers ($99 each pair) for the front and surrounds. And a polk csr dual 5.25 inch center channel($49 online newegg.com). A polk audio 12 inch psw505 sub($169 new online at newegg.com). The upgraded receiver brought out better clarity and dynamics and the extra processing features helped make it sound better as well. So yes even for a 300 dollar increase, I could hear the difference on even lower end budget speakers. I can only imagine what a sony flagship 3,000 receiver is like or even separates.

Yes I agree with all the technical detail about build standards, costs, ability to handle 4ohm loads, FFTs of noise & distortion, quality of components, heat sinks.... All that is true in spades.....However, the key question is not asked until the end....and that is can you HEAR the difference? And especially in a "typical" room, at "typical" listening levels, can you really hear the difference? In an ABX scenario? That's the question I want answered.

Great explanation Gene. I have a Sr8012 and using a Anthem MCA 325 to drive the LCR does the Marantz pre out have good enough pre out section justify the anthem 325 power? And merry Christmas Day and a happy new year to you all

Finally I’ve been hoping for a video on this!:)

honestly, i have a 7.2 channel klipsch speaker system with a onkyo txnr686 receiver in a 30x20x15ft room using 12 gauge wires and a power filter and have not had issues with sound quality. The only thing i have adjusted is the distance of the speakers and raised the treble a bit on the receiver. everything else is set to default. But im sure a higher end receiver will produce much crisper sound especially for movies that are shot in true 4k with dolby atmos.

it all depends on how loud you want your movies & music to be.. me i have a 500 dollar onkyo package with 5.1 speakers but i have small room.. the sound is awesome 50 to 70 on volume is more than enough to rumble my chest & ears especially when watching horror & action movies.. the sound quality is outstanding.. surround is unbelievably great

A 9ch amp with large power supply is all that I need,more that half of options I don't use on my denon AVR-X4500H running a 7.2

The main difference will be in the quality of the room correction

Thanks, it is a great explanation! although I miss an important point: Nowadays expensive all-in-one receivers become obsolete pretty fast. New DSP improvements and Dolby-wathever standards will constantly appear, HDMI 2.1 is coming soon, newer wireless transmission standards are coming , newer home automation tech, the needs for synching and managing TV & Projector, multiple zones, and newer smart TVs & smart assistants trying to be too smart and fighting with the avreceiver for central control... In my opinion, the only way to deal with all this in sustainable way over the time is to invest in expensive active speakers with its own amplifiers and then use cheaper AVRreceivers (even if they still need pre-amps). In that way I was able to keep using my 20 year old magnificent Genelec speakers ( and their superb amplifiers ) while replacing the AVR every 4 or 5 years whenever I wanted a new feature. In my personal opinion and all in one AVR is a waste of money, it leads to the same obsolescence problems as a soundbar. I recognize you mention a great Denin product for this approach in your video, but I wanted to remark why it is so important to go that route. And there is more to come: in the future I expect to also avoid pre amps fin my next and instead add a small DAC box to each speaker (I don't know any good product for this yet). In that way I could use an AVR only for what it should be used, as a central hub with only digital inputs, digital outputs and DSPs , and only go analog at each speaker location . Does anyone know a good product for this? I have seen some products doing it with wireless signals, buy they are proprietary and I would like to use an open standard that I can evolve over the years

Yamaha RX-V1 Receiver is a beast as well..big power!

Absolutely heard the difference in receivers I have owned and in comparing receivers when I sold them. The phenomenon of lower quality as features have increased has unfortunately been going on for many years.

There is a reason why some products are more expensive than others!

I took Gene's review and bench test into consideration before I ended up selecting the very nice Marantz SR-8012. It is not absolutely perfect but it performs very well and gives me very good sound in my home theater. And I power my front 3 speakers with an external Emotiva power amp. I have gone from a Yamaha RX-V995 to a Pioneer Elite SC-05 to a Marantz SR-8012.

There might be some differences in sound between a cheap receiver and an expensive receiver, but I expect those differences to be so small (unless you're talking about a REALLY cheap receiver) that they won't make much if any difference to most people. There IS a good reason not to buy more expensive receivers though. Basically all HDMI-capable receivers these days are basically DSP computers with an attached amplifier, and when something on that digital board goes, the end result is a useless hunk of metal and a repair bill that's likely to be so high that it makes more sense to just buy a new receiver. Gone are the days when a tech could go in there with a multimeter and a soldering iron and fix the problem with a $5 part. And yes, this is what has happened to my current receiver. Seven years of service and now it's a useless hunk of plastic and metal. And my 30 (!) year old and still perfectly-functioning stereo integrated amplifier is filling in duties for the moment. For this reason I've set $500 as the MOST I'd spend on any modern receiver, and I'm currently looking at the Yamaha RX-V585. At $499 (B&H), it offers all the features I need and more, and at 80 Wpc (2 channels driven), it will be more than enough for my small system. I'd have gone for one of the lower models, but they don't offer 7.1 channels or surround sound. Sony has cheaper 7.1 receivers available, but they don't offer connectivity to Deezer. An ideal solution would be a separate HDMI-capable "pre-amp", but good luck finding one that offers the same features that can just get in a cheap receiver anyway.

Can you do a review on audio source pre amplifiers I'm thinking about buying 1 need your opinion thx👍👍👍👍

Well forget about receiver just make sure it have pre out and buy amp

I totally agree - this is a no-brainer that expensive receivers sound better than cheap ones. I own the Yamaha RX-Z11 and it just blows my secondary mid-range Yamaha receivers away just in terms of raw sound quality through my Definitive Technology BP2000 speaker system.

With that lighting, I thought you were going to tell a ghost story. :)

You get what you pay for! I went separates years ago and long term it’s worth the cost.

Gene is so knowledgeable and intelligent he makes me believe I am not part of the same species. Great video.

Very informative. You leave great hints on what to look for to dig a little deeper if we want to.

Yea, I do like the metal baffle and knobs on my cheap Denon bought 25 years ago.

Great info. 🤔How about a video on select entry AV Recievers that pass your 2V observation?

I think the trick is not killing yourself to get the latest receiver. Save and get the previous year or 2. Depending on what you get, you could get more for your money. Something that Gene cannot touch on here. So getting the last generation maybe a good way to go. Separates are a better way. Or what I did. I went with powered monitors and ran the pre outs from my processor to them. The amplifiers are built into the speaker and optimized for them. Fewer black boxes in my rack running balanced XLR to all my channels. So you don't have to get a separate multi-channel amplifier if you don't want too. Be careful though, and do your homework first. This is real expensive real fast. Get a previous gen processor and save again. Be careful of HDMI HDCP compliance too. Depending on your HDMI associated gear what you get may cost you more or less. Ultimately I am fore stalling as much as possible the HDMI bite. Remember also bargains galore. Look carefully at your flat panels. Real good one have plummeted in price.Taking your time and building slowly smarter than getting all at once if possible. Again, what do you want. If you are going to do a Receiver exclusively, that is your hub of processing switching and power and you want to keep this thing for a while. Get the most receiver your money will get you. Get two great speakers first and a good subwoofer, get 2 is better if you can and build your system slowly. The elephant thing a bite at a time. I have done this forever, and learned the hard way what matters, and what does not. Be honest with your expectation, money and outright goals. These days receivers are really brains and switching, but left muscle at the gym. So be careful. Build a great system slowly if you can, than a so so one now where it counts. Thanks Gene for your video. Love your stuff. Any thoughts on Emotiva audio's Processors?

I bought a new receiver from Costco, it plays blu rays with uncompressed high bit rate sound, 24 bits blah blah blah. A month or so later, I was given my dads old Denon AVR 5600, this thing didn’t even have DTS, only Dolby Digital. Really old, but really heavy, it weighed like 20 pounds heavier. And it knocked the socks off of me. It made me realize that all the bells and whistles, didn’t mean a damned thing!

I can't imagine most people use all those channels. I have a low end Denon receiver with 7.1 channels, but use it in a 2.1 configuration because I have a small room, and I am happy with stereo. I would actually buy a better AV receiver for better sound, but still only use it as stereo. Apparently, because of the power limitations, it's probably better to use my 7.1 channel receiver just for stereo. The five additional channels are sort of bogus if the power supply can't drive them. I don't understand why they don't make a decent (or any) 3.1 AV receiver, consisting of a pair of front speakers, center channel speaker, and a subwoofer. If I felt dialogue from my system was not properly oriented, I would get a center channel speaker, but in my small room with my speakers on either side of the TV, it doesn't seem to matter.