Correction on Minute 53: The movie with the Submarine in DTS:X was of course not Mission Impossible. I meant Fast&Furios 8. Here is our Test Movie with demonstration the Effects and the Upmixer in Fast&Furios 8 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lbtohrR3us7RpIE.html

Dolby Rug™, a rug with inbuilt speaker and put it below your feet! Buy x5 for your whole family! Greatest breakthrough in 20 years!

This was disturbingly informative. Very good information though. It seems like another triumph of marketing over substance. Auromatic for the win.

Wow ,it's a nice Video 👍👌 First Time I'm seeing Mr.Patrick.I have an Auro3d 10.2 setup at my home using Marantz SR8012,which can do Atmos & DTS X 5.2.4 too. What's Mr.Patrick was saying is absolutely true.I use to tell to my Audio frds about some of this points , especially Auromatic upmixer.The front & rear heights create a vertical stereo image between Front & surround speakers ,so u can hear the immersive sound .The true thing is good content availabilities are limited.

Gene, you legend! Thank you for what you do for the A/V industry. 👍

My two favorite home cinema KZfaqrs finally together 👍

Patrick was awesome!

In other words, it's a mess. Great interview Gene, thanks!

It was fun to see those guys together in a video! Please do it more often! 😉👍

You guys are great together-very entertaining and informative. Both of you could start a reality tv show traveling around observing home theater setups.It would be fantastic.

Got all giggidy when I saw the notification. Love hearing just general conversation about these audio formats. I’m so weird, they don’t have medicine for that though. Will watch this later, thanks and please keep ‘em coming! Also, let our voices be heard that we made the investment for immersive sound and expect it to be utilized to the fullest!

Thanks gene...for this video and your earlier stream on Dolby restrictions...I have marantz av7705 and had never used the auro 3d because I never got any auro 3d content.....but I was pleasantly surprised by the auro mixers, when I started using them for my daily regular contents and movies too....there is auro 2d mixer, which is for 5.1, which I use for all daily content including 2 channel content and there is auro 3d mixer, which is 5.1.4, which I use for movies. The great thing about auro 2d mixing is that, it sound great for 2 channel listening also including KZfaq and spotify, even with only the 2 fronts and sub playing (centre and surround switched off). I use the reflective Atmos speakers as I stay in rented apartment, but still auro 3d sounds better than Dolby and DTS upmixer for 5.1 content. It's not placebo as I can literally hear more details switching back and forth between the upmixers. Bass also feels deeper in auro mixing. I haven't tried auro with true Atmos or DTS X content yet, but plan to do this coming weekend. Thanks again gene...keep up the good work. Maybe you can also invite Patrick later for some tips on using auro 2d and 3d mixers, automatics settings.

Top 10 content I was able to find. Gene's and Patrick's knowledge and experience combined is remarkable.

Thanks for this video; great stuff. Please do additional videos on Auro-3D. Topics to Address 1) Difference in sound experience with 9.1 vs. 10.1 (I've read that the Auro-3D inventor prefers 9.1 over 10.1); what do you miss w/o the Voice of God; does the format compensate so you do not miss anything. 2) If you build your HT to Auro-3D specifications what do you hear when you watch something formatted in Atmos? 3) Are more companies supporting Auro-3D, and what's should we expect for 2021?

A great video would love if you did another video about the different height speaker layouts, what is the difference between front height or top height. Also, a video going on how to use the upmix like he is talking about instead of Dolby Atmos.

On my way back from the gym I thought about what you said about wanting a bed layer only upmixer from Dolby or DTS since the surrounds were very immersive and to keep it “2D”. I remember what you said about turning the center channel off for surround music and I guess you could turn off the heights when you’re doing music only and apply the DSU. Annoying to go back and forth but at least everything will be mixed into the surrounds instead of the heights.

Speaking of next generation sound that not so many know about, but I use two bass-shakers under the sofa to get immersive thunder, car or shaking effects it really enhances the sound level massively without a subwoofer (main speakers are in the near range of full spectrum 40-32000hz) and the bass-shakers with cutoff under 80hz but range around 10-80hz. you can feel the low sound and still hear it due to the sofa generating the sound. It's awesome the front mains I also use two height speakers for dts:x and atmos.

I feel the Aurostyle 5.1 layout leaves the same gaps perimeterwise, of a 5.1. in rectangular rooms, this layout leave alot of gaps. Going from 5.2 to 7.2.2 was huge for me. Especially with bi/dipoles for my side surrounds. Mounting all of my surrounds about 2 ft above ear level (old way), contrary to Dolby ATMOS recommendations, made for a much more immersive soundfield vs earlevel. Very impressed. Did he ever answer the question of weather the DSP makes different adjustments soundwise, for ceiling vs height speaker locations?

Thanks for this interview, very informative indeed.👏🏾

absolutely everyone I talk to that has both Auro and Atmos prefer the Auro version and many prefer to upmix in Auromatic. it makes me regret not spending the extra for an Auro model. but I'm a budget shopper so the auro models are outside my budget

A good sound mix should blend sounds between multiple loudspeakers to virtualize location, like people do with phantom centers, that was the marketing with these immersive formats, you place a sound in 3d space and the processor will in real time spread that sound to the right speakers and at the right volumes to simulate the intended location without having to hard code for different physical layouts with locked channels. Unfortunately, today that doesnt happen in home, not sure if it's just a matter of processing power (probably, but that's a lame excuse) or what. Seems like most of the audio is in a locked bed, with very few objects for the system to play with, that's why most are not spread between the lower and upper speakers, could also be a disc data rate/storage space issue too, where there just isn't enough room to have the objects individualized enough to properly real time mix, if ti were the speaker layout really wouldn't matter that much becasue every sound should be able to be virtualzied in 3d space as marketed, you wouldn't have as many "black holes" of audio where no speaker existed . Since so much of the track is hard coded though, it won't spread to the upper speakers (top or side) unless specific sounds are intentially placed there which are few and far between. I think that is where the up mixers and algorithms are coming in to play, it is allowing the processor to do the very magic the format was supposed to deliver natively but isn't up to the task with current specifications of home hardware. Again with proper coding, the processor should be able to compensate that upmix to either top or ceiling heights equally well, but doesn't sound like they really put the time or effort in,. Realistically a speaker pointed at you from above shouldn't sound that diffrent if in ceiling vs wall mounted height as long as you get it properly time aligned and volume levaled. I guess the main factor would be how much it spreads vs how much it beam forms, there are benefits to having speakers further away from you and top speakers do achieve that easier than in ceilings given most people's homes. Honestly, the choice to go in ceiling or on wall will likely be determined for most people depending on the room (as to which is more ideal sonically) If you have a large long wide room, in ceilings will likely be better if placed say at every 3rd (skipping the middle if you have 4 in ceiling channels) . A small room especially with low ceilings likely will be better off with on wall heights.

I thoroughly enjoyed this video and found it very interesting and revealing. Thank you Gene for introducing us to Patrick and Patrick, danke schoen, das war sehr interesant! Ich habe viel gelehrnt.. :-) I do think Gene asked some very interesting and valid questions that weren't entirely answered (how Trinnov handles the additional channels and how the AVR's handle the labeling issue), so let's do this again Patrick and Gene... we've got lots more learning and discovery ahead of us... :-)

I love all your vids. Question that is driving me nuts... I use one setup for both movies 7.2 and music 2 channel stereo. Sometimes multichannel stereo... I do not like using the external subs for music. All my speakers are currently set to small. My L&R are towers and I have the subs turn off in stereo mode. (Advanced speaker setting on Marantz.) Crossovers on all small speakers set to 80hz. Am I losing sound in stereo mode with the towers set to small with subs disabled? If so, Is there a way to set the towers to large in stereo mode only and small in all other sound modes? Appreciate

What an awesome discussion!! Patrick was really informative and great to listen to! Gene, I hope you revisit this topic soon with your findings. I'd also be curious to hear what Patrick has to say about the state of Stereoscopic in Germany/Europe as I am pretty much exclusively importing 3D from UK, DE, IT, FR and even JPN now. Now to flip our Theater SR8012 7.2.4 from Ceiling to Heights and see what this Auro3D hype is all about....

So glad you guys made this video watched it when I came out but commenting again I spend over 2k on in ceiling speakers alone not counting install etc and nothing but maybe one movie and games sound above me this needs to be fixed

Very informative video, be interested to see the the diagram of height speaker layout he sends you, one thing i am curios about is he was saying about the height speakers should be pointing down at around 45 degrees for Auro ( SVS ) type speakers would be ideal for this, but if you already have in ceiling speakers with steerable tweeters ( and the tweeter angled correctly ) mounted wide of your listening position would this not create the same affect for Auro.

I love this guy and his Gobi channel he has a good, the best view and opinion over Hifi

speaker layout wise, the recommended setup for Atmos, DTS:X and Auro 3D is more along the lines of Yamaha's Classic 11.1, minus the Surround back L/R! Fascinating discussion! Right on the money with Dolby "liquidating" the Dolby Atmos brand before they've really made in-roads with the brand/spec. Really the biggest difference maker for correcting these garbage dumbed-down BD atmos releases is Dolby themselves. The faster they water down the Atmos brand / experience, the more they open up themselves up to the next big thing (IMAX enhanced?)

Great interview. Very informative.

Patrick you’re so right on the money The atmoss on 90% of movies is pathetic I have an SR 8012 and I sett it up, even though the speakers are in the ceiling I set them as height speakers so I can switch it to euro 3D

I have my marantz sr 7015, and Klipsch Atmos speakers exactly as he said, high up on the wall front and back and the Av receiver actually says down the bottom of the screen good for Atmos Auto 3-d and dts X

Gene made the perfect question about 8' ceilings and how it won't allow a proper Auro setup... and he didn't want to hear that. My Atmos in ceiling speakers are at 30 degrees which is within spec of both Atmos and Auro... but Auro requires the height channels to be at the same distance as the ear level speakers, which I can't do.

Patrick of grope me on TV, thanks for your time and coming on! Gene, Front/Rear Height speaker layout in the AVR will work for all 3 sound formats. It will show in the bottom when setting layout and list all 3. If they are not going to make a good immersive mix then why the hell am I buying 4K Atmos discs for a silenced height layer instead of 1080p when I can upmix the 5.1 mix? For the 2K upscale and HDR? There was an important point made that they neutered the DTS HD master audio mix with Alita and the Atmos Mix has like 5-6dB hotter LFE. They may start doing this to continue to upsell us by neutering the 1080p mix with anemic bass. Let’s help push Auro-3D for home release in the USA! Spot on about saying Dolby needs to talk to the studios to tell them to make better mixes. I have my set up where I can turn off all of the bed layer speakers connected to external Parasound and only hear the height layer which is connected to the Denon 4200. I paid $199 for the Auro-3D upgrade.

Great video, alot of good info !!

It was phenomenal to get the european and the american point of view in one video. Please make more of these.

this guy is a fountain of info great jobs guys

Question I had is the same Gene asked, but wasn't answered correctly since he sort of mislabeled....i have my 4 ceiling speakers designated as Top Front and Top Rear. Due to the slopes, I can technically classify them as Front Height and Rear Height. My question is does that make a difference in listening to Atmos content in 5.1.4 and can I simply repurpose the label/configuration. I'm unclear in the home application if the dearth of Atmos content is specifically to the top channels or does that included the front heights?

I like Gene's idea of just changing the angles having more of an on ceiling vs in ceiling speaker (it is actually my plan when we move to a rental) this is why I like the SVS Prime elevation it should sit on the ceiling nicely and give me the best of both worlds, it will be like an on wall speaker but more forward and closer to the listening position than the front stage.

great interview Patrick is awesome

Patrick is really committed with Auro3D . Which is to me the best upmixer but it has some flaws sometimes virtualising the sound and you have to be very accurate with the placement of your speakers. And you have to have to the same speakers to get the best results. I use the Marantz AV8805 and the auromatic but I must say that in games Atmos sometimes truly shines. They should focus on the gaming industry as its now bigger than the cinema industry. BTW I tested IMAX and it is crap now. It boost the bass way to much. To me it’s like the beats studio from the past. A nice U shaped curve :)

Just finished building my theater. Looks like I'll be taking it apart to rearrange my speakers for Auro 3d. And I thought I'd done my last drywall, sanding, and painting. If only this video had come out 2 months ago...

Can you review The Cerwin Vega XLS 215 Tower Speakers ?

So an update for today: Should I add 2 pairs of height channels fronts and rears?? Or in ceiling 2 pairs fronts and rears??? If the answer is Heights and I’m using SVS Prime Elevations, what angle should I have them?? Thanks

is there any indication that auro-3d will be available in future firmware for the x3600h?

Separation indeed needed. I have 8 foot ceiling and it’s seems is not enough. Extra 1-2 feet would make the difference

Gene, I sure hope that you have Patrick back In 2021. Please.

I hear you Gene on the DTS:X Neural upmixer with 2-channel stuff... I agree. But it does work very well on 5.1 content. Better than Surround IMO.

Gane, its time to do update with Patrick on the topic. Now with the new processor will be very interesting.

I experience a way better music experience when I play it in Auro2d, compared to DTS or Dolby. However, the sound is focused on the front channels and I get very very low sound from the surrounds. I wish I can have Auro’s amazing music signature, wonderful bass, and whatever they do that makes music so full, clear and enjoyable, but at the same time it gets me immersed and surrounded by sound. Denon’s Multi Channel Stereo is my second best option. It does a much better job surrounding me with sound, but it is not as wonderful as Auro’s.

Great topics

I wish more people can enjoy and try auro3d. It is much better and you can hear the difference when you compare with atmos and dts neuro x. I am wondering when denon will come with a firmware so unblock the restriction from atmos. Also we need more films with auro please

I really hope 2020 is the year for Auro 3D in North America. I do think they are going about it rather slowly though with just demo disc. If they want to compete with Dolby now, they need to get their decoder online and on the popular streaming services. Even if Dolby has bought exclusivity with most of them, then go after the video game industry. Offer money hungry companies like EA a cheaper price, and they will at least give you appointment to convince them.

🏆🏅🥇🏆🏅🥇 once again great information

I have changed my setup from 4 atmos overhead speakers to front height and rear height. Problem is now when i start auro 3d i loose the signal on rear back surround speakers so i get only 5.2.4 signal. But if i run native atmos track i get the signal on all 7.2.4 speakers. I have Denon AVR-X4400H. I have also run the dolby leaf test pattern and it sounds better to me in atmos. Even with new height channels now it sounds better than with original atmos overhead speaker placement. I need to do further testing with the movies and switch between atmos and auro 3d to see if results are better with auro.

Can’t wait to try Aura 3D but for now DTS Neural X is best for music but you must bump the surrounds and back surrounds up 5-10 dB. Gene is right about DTS but when you “fix” it it’s great!

Has anyone tried dts: neo x ( an old upmixer)?

41:20 Atmos mixes are 7.1(.4)? Wait isn't Atmos object-based? Or is only DTS:X object-based in the end?

Also sometimes the Atmos mix or the DTS:X one are only on the 4K Blu Ray. Makes no sense.

Thank you Gene and Patrick. Great Video and interesting Standpoints about 3d Audio. I'm from Germany and I subscribe you both, Grobi and Audioholics, on KZfaq. Take a closer Look for the Grobi Videos, they are really great!

I’m a fan of Grobi tv and happy to see Mr Patric in your programme. I request Mr Patric to put sub titles in English for his videos Thanks to Gene Dalla Salla for the video and I like to see more videos with Patric and Anthony Girmani

while we poo poo these sound mixes, let us keep in mind that Atmos and Immersive audio in general is about more than just height effects. The Object based nature of immersive audio can be leveraged on the traditional base layer of speakers as well. Not a lot of movies need a lot of height effects, but they can still use sound objects for precise positioning within the sound field. so I would hesitate to use the lack of height effects as the primary determination of the quality of a particular Atmos mix. (it can be a major indicator though)

Shang-chi is another home mix that sounds terrible, and it had no bass, whereas the theater apparently had tons of bass.

It's not just the lack of height effects in Atmos. It's a lack of dynamic objects at all. They have static "objects" at speaker locations and then just click the 5.1 mix and convert it to "objects" and slap an Atmos logo on it. Atmos is a sham in more ways than just the mixes as well. I'd like all movies to abandon it. Only use DTS:X and Auro, both are good.

So it’s time to get rid of my bouncy house speakers and remount them like I used to do with my old Yamaha receivers (their extra heigh -immersion speakers back in the days) up to the wall/close to the ceiling again.

This video was informative and disappointing. I just spent a lot of money on a new Klipsch Reference Premier system with the Pro-180RPC ceiling speakers. To find out this probably wasn’t the best choice for height speakers is disappointing. Should I change the to wall height speakers? I did get the Denon 6500H. Will this receiver do the Auro up mixing you’re referring to? Thanks

I love LOVE my Panamera :3

its amusing, a video about something ive been saying since week 1 of owning my 1st Marantz (5.1.4/9.1)years ago, with Auro3D. Sadly, in North America there is no/very little Auro3D media, you have to import it, which can be a real trick.. Atmos engineers have become lazy and unmotivated due to zero competition in the home. X and Auro3D both do a 50x better job even in the upmixer in movies. NOW having said that, PC sound with the upmixer is where it starts falling apart, on ALL levels. Even with the flagship Dolby Cinema game 'battlefield 1', theres still MUCH MUCH work to be done, upmixing or otherwise. The headphone wrapper is a joke, on all levels. If you want game companies to take you seriously, you REALLY have to step up your game, at least 100x. Someone should forward this video/comments to Dolby just to show them how much of a laughing stock they are currently, and they did it to themselves, and nothing more. Hopefully they dont make sound from below take 16 years to come out. :P Ideal Auro3D mixed movie : Heat (Pacino/DeNiro) IMHO, Imax enhanced, just a cash grab, some software EQ settings, nothing more.

Very knowledgeable video DTS upmixing for music isn’t good . Movies it’s fine . But your right speakers on the ceiling in the theater I don’t feel any effect only mainly the ear level.DENON gave a 30 degree layout for all formats angled down .

13 dislikes from Dolby employees.

Probably the best video while the saddest video I've seen. I was literally seconds from ordering in ceiling speakers for an Atmos layout. Now I'm contemplating just giving up and staying with my 5.1 setup.

What i dont understand is websites like bluray.com going on about how amazing the overhead sounds are in almost all of their reviews when clearly their are almost no sounds from the height channels

I wonder how much further Auro-3D would be in the market if Gene would have backed it.

I have Auro 3D and I watched all the Marvel films using this format as it sounded better to me (Denon 6300 upgraded to Auro, Bowers and Wilkins speakers).

So when is Gene posting the speaker diagram Patrick was sending him.

What I can't understand, is the difference, why there are no, or so few Music-Studios in the USA, where this setup is provided for listeners, to hear the difference, between the original setup and the setup, providing this setup listening to the Auro 3D and the Setup Dolby Surround. If it's not provided to the possible listeners, to hear the difference, between an original. Listen to the Dolby Surround. Now it's much easier to listen to the Sound, after using the Set-Up, The Description to setup the in the Setup like the, for instance, would be the setup. Used the Setup would be the Setup, would be the one. using the one, and not the one the one, and not the one, easy that would be the way to listen to the music. I'll never hear the music concerning on this over this this

Did you get the answer? Auro3D upmixing and speaker set up. Next question?

Why do modern TVs don't support 3D playback? Similar issue; 3D audio is one, but 3D vision really adds immersion. My Sony TV of 10 years old supports 3D playback and I'm keeping it as long as I can. I have the impression the market is broken...8K TVs, what the heck, there exists no 8k content BUT there IS 3D content.

I don't have the money for an Atmos or Aura 3D system :( Good thing I also don't have the room for such system.

Im not a fan off this upmixing...ok you get some extra height channel activity but you also get a loads of sounds coming from above that shouldn't be their..upmix any off the lord ring movies you will hear what im talking about..waves lapping up on the ceiling and stuff...im serious tinking of just going back to 7.1

Aww Patrick didn't do Keep Listening with you lol.

Patrick you are a mine of knowledge, you have to reach the non German audience.

Gene is dressed like an audio shaman.

I think studios are getting lazy, and not mixing the soundtracks properly. Thus, thinking that most consumers listen to plain Dolby Digital or Stereo. They assume that we don’t know the difference, but we DO hear the difference. 🤔 💭

This means Dolby needs to improve their Atmos Virtualizer.

You’d think Disney would do a better job mixing for Atmos, too bad they bought out LucasFilm who pioneered THX, as an independent LucasFilm/THX could be pushing the ball forward on a 3rd surround format of their own giving the consumer, and global markets more competitive incentive to actually get their acts together and deliver on their immersive promises. A dolby Monopoly in USA, and an Auro monopoly in Europe, leaves the Japanese Denon and Marantz consumers the winners as they have their choice. Maybe if Sony, Samsung, Apple, Microsoft, or Lucasfilm/Disney, created some more proprietary surround sound technology options. We would see licensing fees come down, which would give more consumers access to choices, both in receivers and home theater topologies. Disney/THX could do some proprietary stuff with their ip and streaming service. Sony and Microsoft could do interesting things in competition between their game consoles, and their VR. Apple has their unique home-pod acoustics, streaming TV ip, Beats headphones and carplay to enter the market with unique surround technologies. So lets show this Auro/Dolby duopoly the door; increase choice, compatibility, and competitive innovation. All the sources have to play across all the codecs, but which one plays and up mixes better. Which titan of oligopoly will be the one who decodes reverberant affects and doppler phase asymmetry to extract the most realistic hidden 3 dimensional characteristics. Which receiver am I going to get which has the processing I think is best, or is best for what I listen to. The internet has made region restrictions of content a protectionist inconvenience, let Auro and Dolby and any others prove their metal on the world stage. For the good of all humanity, let our art flow all around the world with maximization, not limitation.

Common Gene! Porsche over BMW any day......... I've had both and I'll always own a Porsche now that I've had one for over a year.

Hundy P - upmixing is better for me and always has been.

I watch these videos , wish they where in english.

And.............MQA vs. non-MQA. Big difference.

I've stuck with 5.1 and have no plans on ever adding another chanel. Hell if your like me and have no interest in these silly super hero movies than really we have very little content that would ever warrant adding chanels. 2-ch stereo rules!

Gene I love your material but.... your audio for this video is quite subdued and a bit muddy.

Almost every German Blu Ray has no Atmos or DTS:X. 95% of the time i use Auro3D 5.1.5. 4% i use Dolby Surround for Stereo because Auro sucks upscaleling Stereo.

This video is based on so much nonsense it's hard to believe that he's on the much respected Audioholics. Let's start with the question that keeps coming up over and over. What percentage of sounds do we get in real life from overhead? Then the common answer is "not very much so why have speakers above our head? " This is completely and utterly incorrect. We are constantly hearing sounds throughout our entire day from above. Just a few of the sounds from above us EVERY DAY are birds, people in hi rises, echos, airplanes and helicopters, walk through a forest or a city and sounds are all around us.(lots of reflected sound comes from above.) All of our hearing in daily life is literally 3D. Yes the vast majority of our daily sound comes from the "ground plane" but we do infact get a lot of sounds from above every day. This argument is completely invalid. Next argument: More speakers are not better in an object based surround format. Another incorrect statement. Since the beginning of discrete surround sound the hardest job of our system was to put sounds where there wasn't a speaker. The only solution was and is to put speakers where you want the sound. This is still the only solution. These 2 points are incorrect and shouldn't be repeated so let's stop. Now as to the rest of what he's saying he's spot on. Many of our movies mixed for Atmos are completely underwhelming. This is a fact.