A enjoyable listen Patrick and waxed were on top form 👍

This was great, some of my favorites! - Mike

A very enjoyable debate once again with all concerned.Learned as usual ...a heap! Thanks Steve. Next.

Thanks for the great time, Steve. Fun panel. Very nice people.

Rachel said it best. Fomo does still exist, but it depends on the album and/or artist.

Hi Steve, great panel and discussion 👍🏻 My longwinded nickels worth... I think many factors have brought the vinyl industry to where it is at. One in particular impacted and accelerated price increases across the world in all areas. Pandemic results... We only have to look back at the middle of 2020 to the end of 2022 and the beginning of 2023 to realize that the biggest impact on vinyl sales was the pandemic. The lockdowns caused more interest in home based entertainment and drew in new customers. Were they longterm customers? Is the question I think. Peoples lives got back to normal they went back into other inteterests. Many who started probably have moved on and even are selling now. So demand may have turned a bit there also. But during the pandemic we had more newbies come in than ever in such a short time period. And then that triggered flippers. All due to the main factor: the pandemic. Material shortages during the pandemic created a mess also. Not enough pressing plants due to increased demand. Cargo ships literally stranded at sea. A time of chaos in which folks were spending money on the hobby as if the world was coming to an end. The Vinylocalypse! ;) Now inflation... Huge amount of change globally happened around the world during the pandemic years. Now those who went in for the kill so to speak and perhaps were a bit overconfident in thinking folks would scoop up 15,000 high end $150.00 records are finding out the factors that drove that possibility are not so much any longer. So these companies that thought this was some sort of permanent change are now having to shuffle a bit. Such is the market in capitalism. Mofigate... I think this also had an impact. Perhaps some of the fairydust that was tossed in folks eyes and then revealed as a bit of smoke and mirrors jaded the high end $60.00-150.00 records in general. A bit of a wake of from the audiophile halcean days. I don't think its a huge impact but I do think it kind of bummed things out and tempered that perfectionist drive to buy these expensive records. AKA: "Wait a second why am I buying these expensive things in the first place??" Mofigate was a bit of a slap to the face to wake up the hysteria of paying $150.00 for an lp. One thing is for certain, the incredible spike in sales, demand not meeting supply causing fomo etc was so great a change during the pandemic years that I dont believe prices for originals will be reasonable again, if ever, for a long time. I do believe that there is a bit of a skewed perception that the vinyl sales are bottoming out. It gets back to the pandemic years. That is, it was such a disparity between supply and demand which drove up prices and also increased licensing and numbers. After two years of the highly unusual we now see the slowing down in an an exaggerated fashion. It isnt bottoming out, its back to pre pandemic normalcy with the companies that stocked too much and overextended finding themselves having to discount. We are simply seeing a drop from a lofty place during 2020-beginning of 2023 that it *seems* like a bigger drop than it really is. On another corner of the vinyl universe we could very well see, as Mike Esposito of The In Groove has mentioned, baseball card type grading on NM to Mint copies of rare, rarer, rarest records. I believe there will be a wider margin in what costs we see depending on condition. For instance, you want a truly NM copy of the mono Odessey and Oracle? You will be paying archive baseball type grading of 2-3 upwards to 5 K. Sound crazy? Go back and look at prices 10 yrs back for these rarities compared to now. The gap between the truly NM to NM lp and jacket of truly rare first pressings and the many VG+ of that same album will widen more. Where there may be dickering abilities with the later condition of rarities, the true NM to Mint will be untouchable. I think we will see this in the next 5-10 yrs at a level as never before with expert graders getting into the game. And these crazy rare yet desirable lps hitting prices we could not imagine. Thats the negative of a big uptick in vinyl records popularity. There there is material shortages, inflation, increase in newbies to the hobby all got accelerated to such a degree that prices went up exponentially and rapidly. To such an amount that even back to normal still leaves us with quite the overall increase in prices across the board. How that will end up? I believ you will see the 15-20% discounts at the big three once again. And we may even see a negative change eventually as to the survival of these audiophile venders. I hope not, but that has always been the danger. I think its good to remember that what audiophile records are: A niche market. We shouldn't be fooled into thinking that increases in sales and a hot vinyl scene is some sort of big impact on what goes on in music and the world of finances concerning it. In the end, its my opinion the biggest impact by far was the pandemic. It started a domnino affect that even in our small little audiophiledom community is now feeling the rebound affect from. The pandemic situation brought much attention to the hobby. For better and for worse. Not the only element but I believe the strongest for what we have seen over all in this small vinyl world of ours. Thanks again for the video and wish you luck in the future👍🏻👍🏻

Great to hear Waxed comments. 🎉🎉❤

I loved the discussion. Awesome panel. ♥️

Great show Steve. Really enjoyed it

Awesome panel and killer Fomo talk I really enjoyed it . I agree that Cars Rhino is amazing I just got a copy over the weekend .

Awesome panel. Well done.

Credit must be given where it's due, and this was an excellent discussion among all of you. Well done, Steve! I also succumb to FOMO from time to time, and I've noticed many titles I've bought a few months ago have had their prices drop considerably. Such is life! Well, you can't always come out on top. But hey, that's what makes this hobby a blast!

Great convo and thx for the shoutout Patrick 👍🏻

Lots of interesting conversation and learning heaps from tuning in - thank you!

Great panel and talk, Steve. Some of my best sounding records are just common pressings and not considered, “audiophile”. I’ve got a good amount, but don’t necessarily seek them out. I don’t care if a record was cut from tape or a digital source as long as it sounds good. I would challenge tape purists to be able to decipher the difference in a good amount of cases. Also, 180 gram isn’t necessary, imo. 120-140 gram seems just fine to me. Thanks, Steve and panel. Great chat, guys. 👍🔊😊🎶

FOMO just got me with The Cars Hi Fidelity..... ordered a few days before they sold out.

Great panel and wonderful discussion. Thanks for putting this together, Steve.

Rob!

Great episode today. Love it to see the growing interest in our shared hobby. Btw the new rhino Cars sounds very good on my system

Great Stuff guys!!!!

As another Canadian I have found that ordering LPs from AS or MoFi can be brutal with the exchange, shipping and broker fees. I used to be able to get records shipped from the states by USPS at much better rates but those days are over. I really have to want something to pay twice the US list price to get something to my door. Luckily, I bought most of my collection during the fallow years of vinyl. Now I try to find clean OG recordings at Discogs using VC comments on mastering as a guide. The problem is in the grading. A NM graded visually is futile. This is what happens when the market gets exploited by sellers who don't know how an audiophile values things. The LP format is chosen for a reason and that quantifiable reason is often ruined by high surface noise or scratches that make the whole exercise pointless. I have ordered the Rhino Cars and they took my money. I hope that it is not sold out or that I will get a refund. My MoFi copy is on CAM in the meantime. I can't justify $230.00+ CDN for the UHQR Steely Dan reissues so I have the Grundman SACDs on backorder. Thank you for the timely discussion today and in the past. It is a first world problem but I am lucky enough to be a first world resident and probably have an unreal expectation of forthrightness in the marketplace. Cheers from Ontario.

I like Japanese pressings as well. My experience is it’s like a 50/50 thing. Sometimes they are a bit bright and lacking bass but NOT ALWAYS. Often they use the US Mastering but the vinyl is almost always better. The 2016 Pink Floyd remasters are a great example, I bought the Japanese releases and I am done and done. They sound awesome!!!

I for one am sick of these crazy prices for UHQR and MOFI one steps. I am even tired of double 45 RPM LP's. Just give us a quality 33 RPM record that sounds good (from an analog tape) if possible and do it for a fair price. All of these double lp's slow down the pressing plants. There are so many records waiting to be repressed. I have many lp's on 45 rpm and the same record on 33 rpm and the sound of the 45 rpm is not that much better. I also get tired of getting up to flip the lp every 15 minutes or so. It disrupts the flow of the music.

Great topic. Enjoying mucho.

Nice discussion.

Well, since I gave you such a thrashing the last time, I must say that this time was absolutely lovely! Great job Steve! 👍 FWIW, I thought you truly moderated everyone beautifully, nice job Bro, I fully enjoyed this one. Thanks for all the hard work mate! Oh, and as soon as Patrick praised the recent Kevin Gray release of Spectrum, I immediately ordered it 😁

The OG Van Halen S/T lp sounds absolutely awsome!! No One Step for me!!

Great show once again, Steve. I think this new Cars Rhino reissue is a perfect example of FOMO. I've always loved that album but was on the fence about ordering it. So I waited till a few reviews to started coming in. I ordered it. Fifteen days later I get an email from Rhino stating they just shipped my record. I'm guessing the delay was because of packaging issues, as Anthony stated. That was the very same day that they sold out. So I was glad I did order it. Another points is, being Canadian that Cars album more than doubled in price with taxes, shipping and exchange in currency. And I still don't know if I'll be hit with duty.

Fremer for President!!!

Great panel. Couldn't agree more with Patrick's point on the Bob Marley half speed. I couldn't rencocile many of the negative comments on the Steve Hoffman forum with what I was hearing. I ended up selling the first Bob Marley UHQR because I actually thought the half speed master sounded just a touch better.

I would love to see an interview with mastering/remastering engineer Steve Hoffman. Steve was at the top of the mountain in terms of remastering through the late 90s, the 00s, and up until about 8-10 years ago. Most of his work is considered the definitive pressings, be it both vinyl and digital. When he was doing remastering for Marshall at Audio Fidelity, there was always a sense of disappointment when folks found out Kevin Gray was going to be doing the remastering on a particular title, as opposed to Steve doing the remastering. I know Steve is active on his music forum, but it would be great to hear from him why he's not participating in the audiophile reissue parade that's going on these days? Maybe he's retired?. Again, it would be great to hear from Steve himself. With that being said, I enjoyed this video. Keep up the great work!

I now DEFINITELY wait until I see several reviews before I pull the trigger on anything now.

I watch all these channels, most of the time i don't take part in the comments but the rare moments i do i put my foot in my mouth it seems!😅😅

I think Mofi and AP need to focus on standard $40 releases. Why spend $150 on a record when it’s clear that a high quality pressing can be done AAA for $40. Mofi and AP need to focus on other releases that they can get the license for a reasonable price. Mofi now has an opportunity to focus on high quality digital recordings from 90s. I have been moving away from AP/Mofi and focusing on other labels like jazz dispensary, rhino, craft, Guerssen (shoutout to noble records exclusives)

Pacific Audio Fest is co-run by Lou Hinkley of Daedalus - his speakers - very revealing otherwordly - natural solid wood Nice insight I feel fomo chilling as the economy slows down, people have a backlog of newer vinyl they haven’t played enough, prices are high, duplicating stuff they have and original pressings are filling the need

I really enjoyed this conversation. Much better than the Fremer conversation/interview.

Nice conservation.....I appreciate it! Mr. Pete-----------> aging hippie

Steve I would love to see an interview with the Grado Family. I would also love a deep dive in mono carts and whether there is a significant reason to use the on modern presses.

When I tell the “professional audio engineers” in comment sections that the best mastering engineer in the world uses 6 figure of audioquest cables in his studio, I like to imagine their heads exploding “mars attacks” style.

I had no fomo with Cars ..all these people needing it said to me previously how good the first pressing of the cars was .I have a first pressing Japanese , can’t imagine the latest is all that much better . Maybe it is , maybe it isn’t .One thing for sure is I don’t need multiple copies of any record. What a waste .

I agree with those who have commented on reasonably priced releases. I am retired and do not have the cash to pay 150.00 or more for an album.

Steve - nice to have some new faces but Bro, we don’t need to talk about Rhino Cars or Fomo ever again. Let’s move the conversation on to new topics. We have had the same round table for like 7 weeks straight. Great job, let’s just get some variety of topics in the future please.

I’m curious whether Patrick prefers the stereo or mono Rhino pressing of Love - Forever Changes. I’ll try to ask him on one of his streams if nobody here knows.

P6 with Exact! Me too!!

What is Rachel’s channel?

Why is your screen the only one that’s not wide screen? Drives me nuts 😂

This whole business of "filtering the bass down" on vintage records vs. "really getting what was on the tapes" is getting tiresome and is misleading. It implies the bass is better, say, on a K. Gray recut vs. an RVG of the same title, which it often isn't. Let's stop talking about why some of these audiophile reissues ought to be better sounding and actually talk about whether they are, which, in my experience, they clearly are not. Maybe that's why people aren't buying them as much these days!

Another nice vid, btw, letting my VMP subscription go, they seem to have gone to the youngsters market who are more into being hip than sound quality.

Steve, the audio is a little too low once you start the show with everyone talking.

why are these video's so long ? The Chad started fomo for Ultra High Quality Ripoff. So many have had issues with UHQR it has been posted on SH forums and yet never addressed on the VC sites .

Cool drinking game. Have a shot every time you here the term “audiophile”. God I hate that descriptor. Oh , you will be calling in sick tomorrow.

Mobile fidelity are not for me . Prices are getting to high , there are still a lot uhqr not sold out

The audiophilia guy… what is he doing? Talking over people, answering questions not directed at him, giving his take on the wrong album being discussed (Bill Evans Undercurrent)… what is going on?? Odd.

i think rhino is on to something good ,great records for a reasonable price hope they do more rock records though, jazz records have been done to death, as for the pricey mofi one steps and uhqr in shitty boxes waste of money not interested

FOMO??

Fomo with vinyl? Lmao!

2 more unsolicited cents... "What is an audiophile title?" Well, it is like Rob and Patrick stated: The best or even great sounding version of an album that you love. There is no reason that these could not be $25-$30 reissues. Think not? Well, there were many examples given in this video. Instead of "think not", we should be saying "why not?" to these companies. Get back to keeping great sounding lps in print for $30-40.00 and off of this high end reissue boat to brokesville. As Patrick stated, once you take away the bias and actually listen blindly and compare, one might be surprised to find out it is very much a case by case basis and rarely do these expensive audiophile reissues come out on top. But, once in awhile they do. Therefore, there is no easy way to the best sound. But, with a bit of effort it may cost you less than $60.00- $150.00. And as Rob stated in so many words: Less than the best sound does not mean it isnt audiophile sound. Sometimes great sounding "it came in second place" is still awesome sounding and considered audiophile. Related to this is this idea of japanese pressings sounding bad or sounding good IMO comes down to understanding what it is one is listening for. And it isnt just japanese pressings. It is any reissue or original. That is: "What sound quality parameters are you listening for?" "What are you comparing a particular pressing and what you are hearing to?" If one thinks the Talking Heads japanese pressings sound great, have they heard the og Sires? If one thinks the Led Zeppelin first japanese pressing Zep 2 sounds great, have they heard the Robert Ludwig or even the Piros? But more importantly than even comparisons IMO is understanding what constitutes great sound quality. Now sometimes that takes real comparisons to determine and learn, but still I believe having a basis in what constitutes great sound is paramount. Analogy would be if I know what a real dollar bill looks like and what constitutes all the hallmarks of a real dollar bill, do I need to know what every counterfit looks like? No, just know what the real one looks like and then when a fake comes through you will see the false aspects and pass on accepting it. If we know what constitutes great sound and the hallmarks of great sound then when a particular pressing comes our way we can then see if that version matches up to these parameters. For me, that is a more sensible and less costly way of going about striving for the best sounding pressing. Problem is, many times folks do not want to or have the time or resources to determine sound quality parameters they can use as a measuring device when a different or new version (mastering) comes along. Of course when do all of these various pressings come our way in order to compare without costing money? They do not. Still I believe that if we have a standard of what we are listening for then we are ahead of the game. After spending some time doing comparisons one catches on in general what to listen for no matter the album. Of course, what one believes sounds good is an individual subjective matter to a great degree. This is true and cannot be so easy to generalize objectively. But please do not discount learning and rethinking what you consider to constitutes great sound. I had a ton of records that were japanese pressings. And thought the same. Until I heard better, started exploring other pressings, realized I was wrong about the japanese pressings in general and started learning and rethinking what I understood concerning sound quality. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, quite frankly. And that is ok. It is always about the music first. But remember sound quality and music go hand in hand. We can miss part of the thrill of the musical experience due to subpar sound quality. And when we find the best? It takes the experience to another level. I would encourage anyone who is searching to find the best sounding versions of their favorite albums to at least consider this. One last thing to consider in this topic: There are folks who have been doing comparisons for years and even decades. One financial short cut is to spend some time learning who has done comparisons, what their results were, why they chose what they chose as the best etc etc. Then see if what they choose as best on a consistant basis matched up to what you understand as best sound. Then you have a person that saves you time and money. More valuable than any other aspect of the audiophile corner of collecting. Not everyone can buy 6 varying version of Led Zeppelins albums. But maybe you dont have to. Work smarter not harder and more expensively. One last blather... Sidenote: 180 and 200 gram vinyl has always been a marketing ploy. Nothing more. This really took off during the Classic Records era. But even before with Mofi and the 200 gram UHQRs. And probably before that time period. Decades. And so it goes..we keep on truckin

Folks are definitely starting to watch their pennies a bit. Every record store I deal with in Ontario has tons of audiophile vinyl on sale that they can't get rid of. ...One Steps, UHQR, MOFI, AP and every other audiophile label.