AutoTrickler V3 vs ChargeMaster Lite...Surprising Results!

Рет қаралды 34,094

Күн бұрын

Hey The 4GunGuy Team! Please review the comment from MobiusUSAH below...He is pointing out the fact that I have an isolated grounding point between the scale and the anti-static mat. I'm going to review this information and determine the best way to remedy that ground loop. As I told Mobius, I set this up based on my research, but sounds like MANY other folks are doing it wrong as well. I want to thank Mobius for the GREAT way he communicated the issue in a constructive way that the whole community can benefit from...THIS IS WHAT I WANT THE CHANNEL TO BE...INFORMATIVE!
In this longer video, I discuss why you'd consider a higher end powder measuring device like the AutoTrickler V3, a basic use overview, comparison between the two devices regarding accuracy of powder dispensing, speed of powder dispensing and how two 10 rounds strings compare from an SD, ES and FPS perspective. YOU will decide whether the AutoTrickler V3 would be right for YOU and YOUR needs.
0:00 Intro
2:16 What We'll Cover
3:45 Benefits Of The AutoTrickler
7:20 AutoTrickler V3 Overview And My Setup
20:06 Initial Powder Throws
23:00 Weight Measurement Comparison
25:55 Loading Speed Comparison
28:49 Accuracy Comparison
31:15 Accuracy Analysis
34:59 Final Thoughts
=========================================================
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Any reloading data supplied on this KZfaq channel (The 4GunGuy) or in this video, including any comments from viewers and readers must be assumed to be in error.
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Пікірлер: 265

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@R1Kyle 2 жыл бұрын

My word!!!!! Your anti static protocol is beyond 100% bizarre, in 30 years of competitive and military shooting I have never once seen something so over the top. On top of what mobius mentioned your multiple layers of soft unstable possibly un level materials would do more harm then good to the reloading accuracy equation. One thing I think you got right is a good power surge protection set up, that adds a great level of protection to any electrical component. You mentioned powder charge cups, if you want a nice sized one for CHEAP, less then $5, you can use metal egg poaching cups or small stainless steel measuring cups with a short handle, They are a great size and so inexpensive. www.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/medium/22686/1255524.jpg

@Richthe1stest Ай бұрын

Did you ever find a direction on this? Looking to order a Autotrickler V4 with A&D scale. (Also, I’ve been going down the reloading rabbit hole. Your videos have been extremely helpful to me! Thanks! They’re also well-paced, which I appreciate)

@The4GunGuy Ай бұрын

@@Richthe1stest Thanks for the kind words! I still use the setup I showed in the video, but run the ground from the red mat to my current stabilizer and then ground the scale in the same hole as that ground. Just make sure you're grounding to a house outlet using a safe method like a dedicated grounding plug like this one: amzn.to/3UWoqNF OR, you could simply run the grounding wire from the scale to the plug directly. I also upgraded my V3 with the Ingenuity Powder Meter (ingenuityprecision.com/product/ingenuity-powder-meter-preorder/) and it was the best upgrade I've done. Ingenuity is also coming out with their own Powder Dispensing System, so you might want to look at it...Haven't heard much about it, but looks interesting.

@GoogleUser-zx5vs 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this detailed comparison, with actual performance numbers, so informative and helpful, well done!

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Google User! I'm a numbers guy so I like to see if that "shiny new thing" is worth it. Thanks for watching!

@bobwilson4723 4 жыл бұрын

Enjoyed seeing actual chronograph numbers after the scale tests. Excellent video!

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much Bob! I know it was a long video, but wanted to cover all the bases. Thanks for watching!

@golong8150 2 жыл бұрын

I’m just looking into reloading and am trying to determine how much I need to spend on my first setup and found this video absolutely enlightening. Very well done!! Thank You

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Ronald! Thanks for those kind words my friend! As I say in the video, it really depends on what you want/need out of your reloading (plinking, target practice, hunting, PRS, etc...). Hope you get what fits YOUR needs and shoot straight!

@davidroper4476 2 жыл бұрын

A lot of effort put into that presentation, well done. I have a CM lite and have been looking at the V3 set up. Great to see the comparison and results.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi David! Thanks for the kind words! So, what are your thoughts here? Gonna get the V3 or V4 now or is the CML doing what you need it to do?

@davidroper4476 2 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy I think the change will be inevitable at some point , my CM overthrows according to my lynman scale! Or it could be the other way around. The v3/4 would definitely give me piece of mind plus speed.

@dgreenapple 3 жыл бұрын

Very well done and thank you for taking the time. Really agree with everything you say too!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi David! Thanks for the kind words. I really do think there is a use for each machine and if you look at my reply to "Big Sean" under "Chris Gilberts" comment below, you'll see how obsessed I am and why I still think that depending on YOUR reloading style and need, you'll consider one of these (or similar tools). Thanks again for watching David and Shoot Straight!

@johnfrederikson2002 2 жыл бұрын

This is a very useful comparison and video. Thanks so much for doing it. J.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi John! Glad you liked it and hope it helps in your decision making. Thanks for watching my friend!

@zachyeager3255 3 жыл бұрын

Great comparison. I think one thing you also proved in this video is that when you’re in the middle of a good node, the ES and SD will not be drastically affected by small variations in charge weight.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Zach! Totally agree. There are also multiple "good" nodes to be had and it just depends on what you're looking for from a velocity standpoint. I just mounted a new 6.5 Creedmoor barrel from Preferred Barrel Blanks (take a look at that vid) and they came out with some VERY interesting testing on the 3 types of barrels. One of the best shooting bullets was the Hornady 143 gr ELD-X and the velocity was a ridiculously low 2,5xx something fps which is really low, but, the SD and groups were really good...I don't tend to chase velocity and really just focus on the SD, ES, groups and nodes I find those things. Thanks for watching my friend and shoot straight!

@noneya135 4 ай бұрын

That was very insightful and a great comparison video.

@The4GunGuy 4 ай бұрын

Thanks None Ya!

@Jeff_Seely Жыл бұрын

Man, I really commend you on an outstanding, all inclusive showcase and comparison of powder weight (and error) vs practical accuracy. Honestly, I thought there would be a larger impact from the error. But seeing these results shows me one more reason for me to keep my wallet in my pocket and work on becoming a better shooter first. And then we'll go from there. Thank you. For the time and research effort that went into this. This was really fantastic!!

@The4GunGuy Жыл бұрын

Hi Jeff! Man, thank you so much for the kind words! I was surprised with the results as well and I think you've hit the nail on the head here...If the difference between these two don't affect your accuracy substantially out to say 700 yds, then focus on as you say "becoming a better shooter first" from 700 yds in and then, when you've mastered 0 - 700 yds, you can focus on that 701 - 1,000 yd stuff which a better powder drop MAY help you with. Thanks for watching my friend!

@ThatGuyChannel 4 жыл бұрын

I literally just made a similar review of dropping 10 charges, and then I saw you did the same thing haha. Except I compared it to my old Hornady Auto Charge. Nice video man.

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks That Guy!

@bowtiedooley 4 жыл бұрын

Did you do a velocity spread test as well?

@tomnguyen7412 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for great video, I hope you will upland more videos and be safe!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Tom! thanks for the kind words my friend! New video coming out on projectiles soon!

@My_You_Tube 3 жыл бұрын

Great job Sir. Unless i missed in the comments nobody seem to focus on your reloading skills...which are excellent by the way :). It has to do with case prep a lot. What it shows me more then anything that you are very good in your FL or NS and case prep. Congrats!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks My You...Tube!! As my buddy Jeff says, you try to remove all of the possible consistency issues you can...Then if you mess up, it's on your skills! So true, because I'm pretty confident in all my equipment now, so when I miss, I do know that it's me. Thanks again for watching and your kind words my friend! Shoot Straight!

@TXMustangGT 3 жыл бұрын

Your neutral stance with not “choosing” for your viewers is appreciated. The numbers don’t lie, and every person reloading has mission based agendas for their own programs. Excellent data presentation and you now have a new subscriber.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Free Range! Some people are looking for "an answer", but I believe YOU have to decide for yourself as you stated. I really appreciate the kind words and the subscription my friend. Shoot Straight!

@Bornintheseat 4 жыл бұрын

Great information really appreciate your effort

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words 'Born'!

@shippingdepartment5978 3 жыл бұрын

Great video just what I was looking for. very valuable information

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Shipping Department! Now, give me a status on my recent order!!!!...And, shoot straight!

@shippingdepartment5978 3 жыл бұрын

Lol 👍

@directimpingement8202 3 жыл бұрын

This video is awesome and thanks for all the stats and data! I am new to reloading but have been shooting long range as a hobby for several years. I'm getting into loading for my 6.5 CM and have been looking for an electronic/digital powder set up. I am partial to RCBS but recently saw the AutoTrickler and was attracted to it immediately, "shiny new object" syndrome. Your set up and attention to detail on the A&D scale is crazy and rivals some labs I have seen. The results are surprising! For me the CML would work just fine and your testing data proves it. I am not processing or shooting that much where the speed of the AT V3 justifies the cost. I am probably not that good of a shot either ;-)

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

HI DI! Thanks for the kind words...I agree that the CML is more than acceptable for people like us who are in it for the sport and not to win national championships. I may get into F-Class shooting in the longer term, so will most likely be looking to be much more accurate in my powder weights, which would justify my AutoTrickler setup. I'm a math guy so that's why I try to analyze with numbers, since they don't lie! :) Thanks again for watching my friend and Shoot Straight!

@ftwpierre9256 11 ай бұрын

Merci pour cette vidéo, très intéressante comparaison et résultats vraiment surprenant.

@The4GunGuy 11 ай бұрын

Bonjour ftw Pierre!, Merci pour les aimables paroles et je suis heureux que cela vous ait fourni des informations. Merci d'avoir regardé mon ami !

@davidschmidt5810 3 жыл бұрын

Great review and honest. I appreciate that. I shoot competition and use the chargemaster but trickle up which gets me to 1-2 kernel accuracy. Each kernel is about 1 FPS so this doesn’t equate to much vertical dispersion. I think others things in reloading make more of a difference. I look forward to your next video.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi David! Thanks for the kind words my friend! Totally agree that focusing on other things like neck tension, seating depth and the right charge for the bullet you're using is a good thing. I'm just now having to switch bullets so having to work up many different charge weights and seating depths.

@excalibur4522 2 жыл бұрын

Merci pour cette belle vidéo et ce comparatif honnête, je m'abonne, bonjour de France😉

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Bonjour Excalibur ! Merci pour les gentils mots et pour l'abonnement mon ami!

@reeleone 2 жыл бұрын

This is great content, was very close for ordering v3 but now , my old rcbs lite is excellent 👍

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Antonio! I try to be honest about these things and sometimes, again, depending on your needs, you don't need something that costs 4x more or 6x more to get close results. Hey thanks for watching my friend!

@withoutfurtheradoforever 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the name drop, Bro!

@chrisgilbert2152 3 жыл бұрын

A lot of people should thank you! You should have saved many guys a grand!!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Chris! Thanks so much for the kind words. Like both these options but yeah, if you want to just load some really good rounds, then the CML would work just fine in my opinion. If you want to get into kernel level loading, then the AT gives you that extra measurement. Bu at the end of the day, the CML is a great little machine! Thanks again for watching my friend and Shoot Straight!

@bigsean2473 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy just looking at your results the CML did better when you fired the rounds. @1000yrds 3.22 vs 4.05 thats quite a bit in a 5 shot group. .83 so the extra cost to save 17mins on 100 rounds is not worth it. this is by your data. but if 17mins mean that much to you hey have at it.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@bigsean2473 Thanks for the comment! I've really spent more time on my powder drops since this video and here's where I've ended up...For ME, the AT is totally worth it and not just for the time savings. I now drop 41.9 gr in my load for my new barrel and while I was allowing for a spread between 41.88 and 41.92 without "kernelling" in or out, I now am allowing for 41.88 to 41.9 and kernelling out at 41.92 to bring it down to 41.9. My reasoning here is that with the 41.88 - 41.92 spread, I was really introducing ~0.06 gr of error (based on the accuracy of the scale, it's really not 0.04, you could actually go down to 41.87 and the scale COULD still read 41.88 as an example). So, now removing a kernel at 41.92 (which COULD really be 41.93) will bring the accuracy of ALL the drops down to a +/- 0.04 gr in a range of 41.87 - 41.91 (based on what I just said about possible spread and scale accuracy). I know it's really picky of me. I know there are MANY other factors in play here. But, with all else equal, I did a comparison against these spreads and came out with FOUR 10 shot groups with sd's of .83 (yes, .83), 2.24, 3.27, and 3.27 and respective ES's of 2, 6, 9, and 7, which are fair better than my previous loads (almost by half). A long winded way of agreeing with you in certain circumstances, but for what I'm chasing, I can't reach that level of loading craziness (I admit I'm totally obsessed with the numbers here) with the CML. So, for me it is the AT, BUT for someone not as obsessed, I totally agree that the CML is a great machine. Thanks again for watching my friend and no matter which scale you use...Shoot Straight!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Big Sean247 for sure my friend!

@mattyolo 4 жыл бұрын

Great comparison 🙌

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Matt!

@gdavis9161 2 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad I watched this video. A friend of mine wants to sell me his v3. I use a lyman auto tickler similar to your rcbs. What I do is set the throw a tenth low and use a manual trickler to get right on (more or less) I don't compete but I do shoot out to a 1000 yds with pretty good success. Thanks so much for investing so much time and effort into your video. It was surprising and you have saved me a good chunk of money as a result. It's not the fancy gun and the latest and greatest equipment. Its still the guy pulling the trigger that makes the difference. You have a new subscriber and a new fan

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Greg! Thanks for those kind words my friend! Perfect timing...I was at the range today practicing and really screwing up my shots. My buddy, Caleb, paused our session and suggested we shoot a "basics" session, which is placing 1" targets at 50 yards (we were practicing 22LR for a National match next weekend) and shooting off a prop (PRS Barricade in this instance). I immediately realized that I was slapping the trigger and that was what was making my other stages so bad. Point is, you are absolutely correct about the "guy pulling the trigger"!! I told Caleb that from now on I'm starting with that "basics" session and ending with it every time I practice. Thanks so much for the sub Greg, I really do appreciate it, and as always, shoot straight!

@dragonflyfab9703 2 жыл бұрын

This channel has become one of journey and discovery. Not very different than my own. Keep the work coming.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dragonfly! I really appreciate your kind words and involvement...That's what makes this worth while to me.

@jeffgadd2077 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative!! Thank you!

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeff!

@stevenhuss2753 Жыл бұрын

I sure do appreciate the work you put into this video. I’m a bit of a nerd and have been smitten by the autotricker. The realistic side of me says just get the chargemaster. I’m just a plinker and don’t shoot over 200 yards. Your video pretty much convinced me I’d be happy and content buying the lower priced chargemaster lite.

@The4GunGuy Жыл бұрын

Hi Steve! I really appreciate the kind words here my friend! Yeah, if you're going out to say 1,000 yds then the autotrickler might make more sense, but I would even venture to say that inside of 600yds, you'd be just fine with 0.1gr accuracy. Many other things come into play in reloading as well such as brass prep, load, seating depth, etc... Thanks for watching Steve!

@NexGenExley 3 жыл бұрын

Well done man!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks NGX!!

@liddell157 3 жыл бұрын

Wow amazing video! Thanks for posting

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Liddell! Thanks so much for the kind words and for watching! I had a blast making this one and have another coming out in a couple weeks on off the shelf ammo versus my hand loaded ammo...stay tuned and shoot straight!

@liddell157 3 жыл бұрын

The 4GunGuy I have been doing some testing and can’t seem to get my sd lower than 12ish and my ES is around 50 give or take.. I have done a bunch of testing in regards to bullet choice, powder choice, primer choice , seating depth, different charge of powder and nothing seems to get me in the low SD and ES that I am looking for. I recently just bought some Peterson brass ( very good brass) maybe changing that up will help. Got any advice?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@liddell157 If you look at my reloading videos (not trying to advertise here) maybe you'll see something that might help)? Have you done a ladder test for example so you know not only what powder weight works best with your rifle, but how far off the lands works best as well? Remember, it's not just the case, primer, powder and bullet...that bullet has to be fired down that barrel and if that part of the equation is off, then you could have poor SD's and ES's. Honestly, I'm not chasing SD or ES when SD gets below 10 and ES gets below say 15 over a 10 shot test. Just some thoughts and hope it helps, but seriously, look at my reloading steps and see if you do the same thing.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@liddell157 Also, what equipment are you using? Sizing die with a separate mandrel or all in one sizing die? What bullet seater? are you on a rotary press or single stage press? What powder measuring device do you use and have you calibrated it against something else? Just wondering.

@liddell157 3 жыл бұрын

The 4GunGuy thanks for advice. Yes I have played with seating depth quite a bit . I reference off a Hornady bullet seating depth tool. I’m about .030 off lands. As far as equipment does I resize brass with Redding die ( I don’t bump shoulder just expand mouth to size) and I seat with le wilson I find them to be the best .

@Mr79dream 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I think I finaly settled on the RCBS.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Mr79! Glad to provide some input to your decision. I was at the range today speaking to a reloader and told him about the Chargemaster Lite and that it is really a great option. Thanks for watching and your comment!

@paintballplayer700 3 жыл бұрын

Great video. I have yet to get an SD under 10 with my Chargemaster, though admittedly it is quite old (10+ years). Perhaps your brass prep is more consistent than mine or something. I have an Autotrickler coming this week to give it a try!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey PaintBallPlayer! You'll LOVE the AutoTrickler. As I stated in my video, I'm not trying to tell people to go either way. I did get single digit SD's with my CML, but to your point, it might be a number of many other variables that contributed to that. Thanks for watching my friend and after you get that AT, "shoot straighter"!

@tadbarker7082 3 жыл бұрын

That’s the best video I’ve seen on the subject! Thanks for doing it. I’m a little disappointed at the result though.... but I guess it’s better news for my wallet.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Tad! Thanks for the kind words my friend! I was talking to a new shooter at the range last weekend and he said the same thing. I did tell him that hey, if you want to feel confident in the consistency across your loads, then I still think the Autotrickler is worth it. If you're just loading for plinking or hunting or just to have fun in a match, then save some money and go with the CML. Thanks for watching and Shoot Straight!

@jimclark6883 2 жыл бұрын

Just an EXCELLENT video! I have a RCBS ChargeMaster Lite and like it very much. I do not compete but enjoy challenging myself at the range, so I am very happy to know that my loads are pretty darn close to a super precise set up with the Auto Trickler V3. I am a subscriber now, Thanks. BTW, where did you get your platen and powder pan for your ChargeMaster Lite?

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jim! Thanks so much for the kind words my friend! The platen and powder pan are from Area 419. I ordered them from Amazon but see now that they are not available and even on the 419 website, they only have the chargemaster 1500 version. You might ping them and ask if that will fit the CML. Thanks for watching Jim, and shoot straight!

@josephhomen 2 жыл бұрын

I did some of my own testing and found that the charge master lite, I weighed over 300 charges triple check with a very accurate and tuned beam scale that’s capable of registering one kernel of varget. the charge master lite had a Es of .08 grains (only about 3-4 charges out of 300+Where 0.08 high)most were dead on or less than .03 grains. But maybe I just got lucky and have a good one. Yours is about the best video on the subject. Also I shared it about 1000 times on KZfaq.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Joseph!! Thanks SO much for the kind words and sharing the video! Like I said, depending on your level of what you want out of a scale/measuring device that CML is a great little machine! Thanks again for watching my friend and shoot straight!

@josephhomen 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for doing all this hard work . which really helps out the community and enables everyone to make more informed decisions about purchases👍

@bryanmarks4070 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing this test. I have a chargemaster light. I like it. It boils down to time and what is your time is worth. I have a chargemaster light and I like it. I just need to keep an eye on the scale drifting and zero it every once in a while.

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hey Bryan! Thanks for the feedback. That's why I didn't want to actually say "which is better" because it really does depend. I was very shocked at the results and had been getting decent SD's (single digits) and ES's (below 20) with my ChargeMaster Lite, but this research really did show that the differences between the two devices didn't translate to huge differences in the field. Thanks again for watching!

@henryhenry5897 3 жыл бұрын

What do you mean zero like how often ? Though the course of a loading session? I understand every time u start up u cal it ... or do u have to maybe zero it every hour or every 100 Charges?

@bryanmarks4070 3 жыл бұрын

@@henryhenry5897 some times it drifts. After I let the machine warm up for awhile I calibrate it and set zero. I take the pan off and remember that number. Every time it throws a charge I pick up the pan and see what the negative reading is it should be the same when you check it after your initial zero. If it changes I set the pan back on and zero it back out if that makes sense. Also for instance I throw 41.5 grains of powder as soon as the scale hits 41.5 it beeps most people pick up the pan but I wait till it flashes the number of throws on the screen and goes back to the weight. Some times the machine beeps on 41.5 but if you wait till it flashes back it might read 41.6 or 41.7 so I would wait till the machine is done doing it’s thing before you pick up the pan if your going for the most precision.

@henryhenry5897 3 жыл бұрын

Bryan Marks Thank you. Yes some times I trickle up loads snd it seems perfect but if I wait 3-4 sec all sudden it goes up and I trickled to much ... ok good to know. Im really thinking about buying one as I only loaded for 270 and 22-250 got plinking and hunting now I wanna shoot more as I got a 6.5 creed and go through slot more a lot quicker and it just takes along time to drop and trickle I could load bullets while it drops the next load for me I thought

@bowtiedooley 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video, these are the exact two powder chargers I’m looking at and I think my OCD level is going to be okay with the Chargemaster Lite for now! I would really be interested in seeing the same comparison in both smaller caliber(say 223 rem or 224 valkyrie) and a larger case capacity(300WM or 7RM in that ballpark) just to see if the differences in velocities would be more notable with a smaller or larger case capacity! Thanks for the video though!!

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hi BowTieDooley. See my response below on the powder cup. Yeah, I'd like to do other comparisons, but I don't reload anything else, just the 6.5 Creedmoor since when I looked into 9mm and .223, I didn't really see that much savings and the work wasn't worth it. Thanks for watching and the kind words!

@dragonflyfab9703 2 жыл бұрын

It would seems to be a question of percentages. Five times more accurate at one grain is not five times more accurate at 100gr.

@hebrewhooligan5462 3 жыл бұрын

Thats a great setup! I love the mouse pad and stand that should be a help to stabilizing your scale. The power cleaner might be a help not 100% on that one but I am sure the antistatic mat is definitely overkill its esd shealded inside. They also definitely need to warm up in labs they normally never turn them off but thats with using them everyday.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Hebrew Hooligan! Thanks for the kind words my friend! Yeah, I think the power cleaner is probably overkill too, but we get some power spikes here once in a while and I darn sure didn't want that thing getting fried! The setup has worked out really well so far and I like that it's portable...I store it on top of my safe. Thanks for watching and Shoot Straight!

@David12005 3 жыл бұрын

The Autotrickler is SO much more fun to use. The new Bluetooth app is amazing. Great video BTW.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi David! Yeah, I loaded 100 cases the other night in about 30 minutes...once you have this thing adjusted you have a drop waiting right as you finish seating the projectile on the previous case. Thanks for watching David and for the kind words!

@ThatGuyChannel 4 жыл бұрын

Also, just something to consider about the ES results of both of your scales is that sometimes even the cheap ones can get lucky and get it right. If you did this test 10 times, you'd find the ES would be a lot more inconsistent with the RCBS vs Auto Trickler... at least in my case I have seen that to be true when comparing the Hornady Auto Charge to the Auto Trickler.

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hey That Guy, I agree totally. The funny thing here is that I didn't add or subtract any kernels with either machine, but, when I used the ChargeMaster Lite before I had the AutoTrickler, I'd add 2 kernels if the reading came out to be 41.6 and I'd subtract 2 kernels when the reading was 41.8, thereby, hopefully keeping within a smaller margin of error. I actually did have consistent SD's in the 8 - 12 range and ES's in the 11 - 17 range with the ChargeMaster Lite, which is pretty darn good for something measuring within .1 grains. But, as I said in the video, I just feel more confident with the AutoTrickler and the speed really helps as well! Thanks for watching, and for the great feedback! Shoot straight!

@MikeMcCasland27 3 жыл бұрын

Really good video. Good filming/setup/production work with it. What range is that btw?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Texas! Thanks for the kind words. I shoot at CCC Shooting Complex near Navasota, TX. It's 1,100 acres and about 20 stages as you can see in some of my other videos (my bags video has a few of them). We have a PRS match there every 2nd Saturday (one this Saturday). Thanks for watching my friend!

@MikeMcCasland27 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy Ah very cool. I shot out there once. That valley on their 'long' range is pretty brutal. I hear they're possibly starting an F-Class match series, so may make it out there again.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@MikeMcCasland27 Oh man that would be PERFECT for me! Maybe I'll see you out there someday.

@PracticallySquared1 3 жыл бұрын

Great video my man. I'll save my money and buy the CM lite. The difference isn't much. Weather is much more likely to throw you off then the difference between these. Someone could buy 2 CM lites and almost still be able to afford a good Kestrel 5700 for the cost of the auto trickler setup.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Keystone...EXACTLY!! Now with that said, I'm thinking of getting into F-Class shooting next year (when my wife lets me get another rifle!), so between brass sorting and bullet sorting for that, the AutoTrickler will be worth it as I'll want to be exact on my powder weights. But, for PRS, and the level I compete, I would definitely agree with you. Hey thanks for watching Keystone and for the SUB! Shoot Straight my friend!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

HEY EVERYONE...BIG SEAN247 HAD A COMMENT BELOW AND I THOUGHT MY RESPONSE SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO THE TOP OF THE LIST...THANKS BIG SEAN! @Big Sean247 Thanks for the comment! I've really spent more time on my powder drops since this video and here's where I've ended up...For ME, the AT is totally worth it and not just for the time savings. I now drop 41.9 gr in my load for my new barrel and while I was allowing for a spread between 41.88 and 41.92 without "kernelling" in or out, I now am allowing for 41.88 to 41.9 and kernelling out at 41.92 to bring it down to 41.9. My reasoning here is that with the 41.88 - 41.92 spread, I was really introducing ~0.06 gr of error (based on the accuracy of the scale, it's really not 0.04, you could actually go down to 41.87 and the scale COULD still read 41.88 as an example). So, now removing a kernel at 41.92 (which COULD really be 41.93) will bring the accuracy of ALL the drops down to a +/- 0.04 gr in a range of 41.87 - 41.91 (based on what I just said about possible spread and scale accuracy). I know it's really picky of me. I know there are MANY other factors in play here. But, with all else equal, I did a comparison against these spreads and came out with FOUR 10 shot groups with sd's of .83 (yes, .83), 2.24, 3.27, and 3.27 and respective ES's of 2, 6, 9, and 7, which are fair better than my previous loads (almost by half). A long winded way of agreeing with you in certain circumstances, but for what I'm chasing, I can't reach that level of loading craziness (I admit I'm totally obsessed with the numbers here) with the CML. So, for me it is the AT, BUT for someone not as obsessed, I totally agree that the CML is a great machine. Thanks again for watching my friend and no matter which scale you use...Shoot Straight!

@pt_atx 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Saved me a lot of money to keep from purchasing this. I'll take 2 Chargemasters. Easily the better deal for weekend shooters.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi PT! That was exactly my point and glad to hear about your decision my friend! the CML is a powerful, under rated little machine in my opinion and STILL gave me SD's under 10 and ES's under 20, which are well within limits even for PRS shooting. Thanks again for watching and your comment PT...Shoot Straight!

@kenthall6584 3 жыл бұрын

Great video

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Kent!

@66branch 3 жыл бұрын

Great video! I've done similar tests and same results.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey 66! Thanks for the kind words my friend! Shoot Straight!

@projekt127films5 4 жыл бұрын

Dude you are the freaking man I literally copied your entire set up but I had a question about the power conditioner. Can you recommend a product that is similar in quality but a little bit less expensive LOL the v3+scale is already breaking my bank :)

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hey Projekt! You know, I looked at others but you have to be careful about their description. A power conditioner is way different than just a surge protector, and honestly, I didn't want to spend the money either. But, after I did my research, I found that many other brands SAY they condition the power, but they don't. So I just went with the Furman. sorry I can't be of more help here. Honestly, I'll bet not many people run a conditioner with their scale, and if you don't have issues with your power, you might just start with a good surge protector...Just a thought. Thanks for the comment and kind words Projekt and good luck!!

@huntmulies39 2 жыл бұрын

Great video thanks

@The4GunGuy Жыл бұрын

Thanks John!

@corvettebrett1 3 жыл бұрын

Very informative video, very detailed for those of us wanting more data before spending 700+ to upgrade. I will say this, you left me thinking ( If I had no experience) at the end of the video that there is only going to be 4" or so between me loading with a lite or with a AT. I shoot 1000 yd BR which is what I'm learning to do anyway. I'm sure you will agree with me that if you have a .2 moa gun at 100 yds that same gun will probably be lucky to average in 1 moa range under conditions at 1000 yds. But let's say my gun will shoot 5" at 1000 while in tune in conditions. With the lite the best it will shoot is 9" by what I took from the end of the video. That's not taking in any harmonic changes. Most nodes are smaller than .5 gr. If I load to the center of that node and have a 10 degree drop in temp I'm out of my node for atleast some of my shots so there is no telling how big the group will be. My point is that everything matters at 1000+. The lite is an awesome piece of equipment till like your friend says you start removing variables. I'm sure you understand this all but just wanted you to know what someone might assume while watching. That has no experience with long range shooting. Thanks again for doing the video

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Brett! I totally agree and not sure I said it, but out past 700 - 800 yds you are definitely dealing with more variables from a reloading and environment perspective and the AT can help minimize the impact of certain variables. Thanks for your very valid points.

@digitalshooter2905 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy I disagree. The problem would be with a persons reloading technique. I'm just starting the reloading journey but from what I've seen no one drops powder the way you did in the video when loading for precision ammo. They always make sure to make their drop smaller than their target weight and then trickle up with a manual trickler to get to the exact weight (within the scales accuracy of course). That will mean more accurate powder drops into the cases which will give less of a deviation between between charges. It will be at the expense of time of course. The only time I've seen someone try and hit their charge weight in their initial drop is when loading plinking ammo and they don't expect it to shoot .1 or .2 moa. They know they be getting inconsistant results and are fine with that for what they will be doing with the ammo. Try redoing the accuracy test again but this time tell the chargemaster to throw light and then manually trickle up to your charge weight. That would be a more interesting test and more applicable to the long range precision shooting. I doubt you'll see much if any difference between the two when it comes to accuracy, now time is a different story. 🤣😂🤣 A rifles precision doesn't change because of distance. If a rifles mechanical accuracy is .2 moa at 100 yards it will be .2 moa at 1000 yards. It's other things that effect precision like a persons ability to read and adapt to range conditions and the consistancy of a persons ammunition.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@digitalshooter2905 Hi Digital! I do agree with what you're saying here. This test was more about a "general" reloading session comparison, but what you say is true. In the end it would come down to your patience and the scale you're measuring the final load on. I am happy with +/- .02 accuracy on my drops for my purposes. I don't weigh bullets or cases, so not going down to that level of precision. If I ever got REALLY serious about this hobby, I probably would do all that though. Thanks again for the excellent comment and input my friend! Shoot Straight!

@MrHannible 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video I really appreciate this saved me some money. I'll take two charge masters over the autotrickler half the price and would be faster for that close of performance.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi MrHannible! I think that's a great decision if your not as hung up on the accuracy. Even the SD's and ES's from the CML were very good so again, good choice my friend! Thanks for watching and commenting...Shoot Straight!

@jadashtleib7029 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the great vid. New to this level of reloading. I have the fx120i on its way and waiting for the autoTrickler. I wanted to know what is the seating die being used ??? I am using a foster currently and its fine but looking at your setup, I would like that

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jadash! I'm using a K&M Arbor Press and L.E Wilson Stainless Steel Bushing Full Length Die Set with Micrometer Top Bullet Seater and Case Gauge. I like this way of seating my bullets, but that's just my thoughts.

@Tanglerwr 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for a very interesting and revealing review - nicely done! An observation: Going by the ES numbers, 0.2 gr for the Chargemaster and 0.06 gr for the AT, it seems the ChargeMaster is within the +/-0.1 gr spec but the AT is out of spec at 0.06 gr. For example, how could it be accurate to +/-0.02 gr and have a spread of 0.06 gr? Not that it matters a lot, but still, maybe the practical accuracy is not as good as a laboratory testing environment.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Tangler! If I'm reading your comment correctly, I would say that the 0.06 spread is the actual difference in the measured weights taking into consideration the varying kernel sizes. IOW, I know that because of those kernel sizes, it will be difficult to get exact or even 0.02 accuracy. And you've hit on the exact issue with these scales my friend! Measuring things like chemicals that are very, very granular, these scales will perform wonderfully...But, measuring things like this stick powder with varying length sticks, not so much. You gave me a great idea for another comparison here, comparing "disk" type powder measurements because I believe that the disk type powders are probably more consistent in shape, size and weight that these stick powders. Thanks for the great comment and observation and shoot straight!!

@Tanglerwr 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy Yeah, I agree! There were several things that I thought were outstanding about the test. One, as we've already discussed, while the AT has a spec of 0.02 gr, due to the nature of some powders, it is likely not going to be able to meet the spec'd accuracy. That 0.06 ES represents only +/-0.03 gr and that seems very close to +/-0.02 gr, and it is close. But percentage-wise it's an error of 50%! But again the values are so small they are insignificant for reloading purposes. Which brings us to another outstanding reveal: for shooting purposes, the ESs produced by the CM Lite and the AT make very little difference down range. And I thought that was an excellent follow through for the test - how much does it really matter practically. Just a really nice test and thorough! One of the advantages of the AT is speed - if that's important. The AT is much faster than the ChargeMaster Lite. But for the difference in price, one could have two or three ChargeMaster Lites and still save about $1,000!

@dragonflyfab9703 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe it is 0.02gr resolution, but 0.06gr SD

@boggstucson5415 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for an excellently produced comparison. It showed me that my CM Lite is “good enough” for the reloading that I do. Even as a gadget geek, I can save the $1k for a different toy - like an induction annealer! BTW, do you have an annealer comparison in the works?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Boggs! Thanks for the kind words my friend! I agree that each has it's use for the kind of reloading you're doing and/or accuracy you want. I only use the Annealeeze, but one of these days I'm going to get with my buddy and compare the Annealeeze to his induction annealer. Thanks again for watching and shoot straight!

@bartbeasley7248 Жыл бұрын

Having used the Matchmaster for almost 2 years, i can say it has some shortcomings. If I could do it over, I would for sure apply that cash toward the AutoTrickler and the AND scale.

@The4GunGuy Жыл бұрын

Hey Bart! What are the shortcomings of that Matchmaster? Would be good for others to know about them as well. Thanks for the comment and for watching my friend!

@michaelkeitz5931 3 жыл бұрын

Hello 4GunGuy. Great video. Just curious if you connected the Chargemaster lite to a purified power source during your tests?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Michael! Yep, I didn't show in the video, but it was connected to the same power conditioner that the AutoTrickler was, so an "even" playing field there. Thanks for watching and your contribution my friend!

@rvoykin 2 жыл бұрын

So basically all the obsessing over .02 vs .1 grain and money lead to an SD gain of 1 lol. Thanks for this I was deciding between the getting 2 of Chargemaster supreme which is showing to be more consistent than the lite vs waiting all year for the V4. Given I can get 2 supremes for the same price I think this helped me make the choice as a non F-class shooter.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Ryan! Yep, totally agree with you. I find myself getting so hung up on the "precise" powder drop, but when you really look at it, in PRS this year our matches aren't going out beyond 800 yds, and the targets at that distance will be about 3 MOA down to 1 MOA... So roughly 24" down to 8". Now, I might not get that 8" target with an ES of 15 or 20, but I'm pretty sure I'll hit the 3 MOA and everything inside of 800 yds (barring MY ability that is!). Now, these F-Class guys? Yeah, I get it, but you're gonna use a Prometheus for that if you're going to get that precise. Hey thanks for watching my friend and glad this video contributed to your decision!

@ynotjf 3 жыл бұрын

This was an AWESOME COMPARISON! I’ve been considering the Autotricker V4 but the cost (especially the scale price) has held me back. I’ve performed velocity deviation calculations with similar results, a 0.1gr powder variation yields about a 10fps velocity variation and at 1,000 yards about a 1”-2” spread difference. So where to start? Autotricker or a better chronograph like a Labradar or more consistent primers or weight each bullets (140gr. ELDM have .5-.6gr variance) or case volume variations or well the list goes on.. Bottom line for me is I’m weeding out less costly variables before dropping a lot of $$ on the Autotricker system. I’m not sure my shooting isn’t the weak link when your talking sub .5 moa at long range!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Ynot! I agree that there are a lot of variables involved and where to start. I think the autotrickler has been great for me since it helps reduce the variance on one of those variables. If I was shooting F-Class (which I may try just for fun one of these days!) I would make all those other measurements and culling, but I'm happy with the consistency I get with the ELD-M bullet and the Alpha cases for the level I'm at. Also agree on my shooting being a major part of my misses...I'm older now and just don't hold that rifle as steady as I used to. But in the end, I love the sport and just having fun these days. Thanks very much for watching and the great comments my friend! Shoot Straight!

@zyangOUTDOORS 3 жыл бұрын

Go for the autotrickler v3 and don't look back... .02 to .10 accuracy is alot of difference ... the at v3 may sometimes overthrow sometimes , but just toss back and re throw the charge. . Ive notice huge consistency in load development and its way much easier to get your sd down to single digit "everytime" with a accurate scale ...im new to reloading and both my rifle load sd in the single digits with low es.. if you want consistency, get the most consistency scale... .1 to .01 is a huge difference in weight... imagine .1 to .01 in seating depth. . Thats huge difference...

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@zyangOUTDOORS Excellent points zyang! I totally agree with you IF you're looking for that kind of accuracy, which you and I definitely are. I would also say though that if you're only reaching out to 500 - 600 yards and/or hunting even closer in, and on a budget, then the CML is an excellent choice at 1/4 the price...Again, it will depend on what you want out of your hand loaded cartridge. But in total agreement that you can't go wrong with the ATV3 if you have the money. If you watch my A-Tip vs. Barnes Match Burner comparison, you'll see some great SD's and ES's thanks to that ATV3 which supports your statement above. Thanks for watching and the great comment! Shoot straight!

@redcat7467 2 жыл бұрын

I like how methodological you are.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Red Cat! I try to cover all the bases.

@kerrgraeme 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the video, setting up a 2nd hand V3 this afternoon. One point I think you might have missed concerns your correlation between ES and vertical dispersion of shots, where you calculated the effect on external ballistics. There is another effect which is cumulative that artillerymen call "jump". Shoot an F Class rifle through a Oehler or LabRadar at 100yds and compare vertical strike v MV on a graph. With most mass below the bore line the effect is 0.1 MOA for 6 fps, the same as the external ballistics at 1000 yards, so the error is double. So 18 fps ES say SD of 6 at 1000 yds = 7" the whole size of the Australian x ring wich is 6"! SD is the main game. For 308 in 30" barrels 0.1 grain yields 6 fps and 223 12fps so weighing within 0.1 grain is vital particularly for 223.

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Graeme! Thanks for the insights! And totally agree that if you're shooting F-Class, then extreme accuracy in your powder drop is necessary. If I ever did go to F-Class, I'd probably invest in a Prometheus! Also agree that SD is the main game. I just switched to 6mm BRA cartridge and was having a heck of a time getting SD, ES, AND groups to an acceptable range for me...This past weekend I finally found the load and seating depth which gave me an SD of 2.9, ES of 8.0 and a group size of .18" over 10 shots. I'll take that any day for PRS shooting! Thanks again for watching my friend!

@kerrgraeme 2 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy good job. I Top off the charge manually for matches so it is the accuracy of the scales which is key. The AND scale is gold standard. Best 10 shot vertical spread so far is 0.3 MOA shooting 308 FTR with 150 Berger Hybrid.

@ZZ-uf4zv 4 жыл бұрын

But let's just assume that this was a good day for the RCBS, I would like to see that same consistency over a several day period to see what the results yield. Also, im interested in your press and seating die setup, what is it and can you post a link for it? Thank you for a very informative video, well done..

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks A B!! You can see my reloading series which goes into great detail on equipment and how I load. I've found that there are many other factors that are affecting my SD's and ES's, including seating depth, neck tension and case length. Keeping a tight tolerance on these additional factors really contributes to overall consistency. You gave me a good idea for a future video my friend! I may make one that spreads the loads between these two over multiple periods to see if these results are indeed consistent. Thanks for watching and shoot straight!

@DimaProk 2 жыл бұрын

I've been using RCBS Lite for 6-7 years now and I will say the accuracy is much better than plus / minus .1 grain. I always double check the weight on scale with .02 grain resolution and I would say the accuracy is about +/- 0.03gr. Let's say for example my target weight is 20gr, most of the time it will start off very close like 20.0 or 19.8gr and in next 2 - 3 rounds it goes down to 19.6 - 19.4 and sometimes as low as 19.2 and pretty much will stay in that range, now when it goes down this low this is pretty much .1 grain off so I re-zero the scale. This is my major nitpick with RCBS Lite as it always drifts to .06 - 08 low but if you just let it be you're still getting very consistent measurements just a little off the target weight. It very rarely goes over target weight unlike RCBS Chargemaster 1500 that would always go over no matter what nozzle hacks I tried and even calibration I could never get it to work like Lite does with no mods!

@Steve-dx5jq 3 жыл бұрын

Good Video. I'm running a RCBS charge Master Lite. I just ordered a RCBS powder trickler. What are your thoughts if I ran the charge Master lite .2 grains less for the drop and trickled in to my target weight ? Thinking that may work pretty good ? Your thoughts. Thanks

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Steve! I think that's a very good idea. I've actually started to remove/add kernels to depending on whether I'm over by .02 (remove) or under more than .02, settling on being either on target weight or just under by .02 which narrows my error but doesn't make me crazy trying to be right on target weight. So, I think you have a good idea if you don't mind trickling every drop, which sounds like you don't. I find dropping powder relaxing, so it doesn't bother me if I have to adjust now and then. Others just want to get it over with and I think that's when you end up with poor loads...Just my .02. Hey thanks for watching and your question Steve! Load accurate and shoot straight!

@Jake-mm1cz 2 жыл бұрын

I realize that this video is a couple years old . But still relevant . I own the Auto-Trickler v2 with some upgrades . I also have the regular ChargeMaster . I appreciate the in-depth comparison . I think that there were videos on how to get better accuracy on the ChargeMaster with a simple straw inserted into the end of the drop tube . A suggestion for the wind issues is try a 3d printer enclosure . I haven’t used mine lately due to all of the shortages . So I’m not sure if it’s something that will help or not . Might need an additional grounding mat . Hope this helps you or others . Let us know if you try these suggestions and they work .

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jake! That's a GREAT idea on the 3D printer enclosure...Never thought of that one! I never did use the straw insert but agree that it seemed to have worked well for others. Thanks for watching my friend and for the great input!

@DimaProk 2 жыл бұрын

The FX-120i is not that sensitive! I have one in front of me with enclosure completely removed and I am breathing inches away from it and it's not fluctuating! I can record a video to show you! But if I open a window or if I had AC than yeah definitely will react to it.

@clwither 4 ай бұрын

You had me right a 6:50. My friend are telling me to use a beam, and im not having it.

@The4GunGuy 4 ай бұрын

ha! Thanks CL and thanks for watching my friend!

@sarkarkhalsa2010 3 жыл бұрын

thanks mate

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

No problem Gurmeet! Hope it helped and thanks for watching my friend!

@tiputipu777 Жыл бұрын

I just got the chargemaster link and I still am about 2x faster with a manual trickler vs the chargemaster, but you cant beat the easyness of the automatic dispenser. With experiense of shooting a mile with a 308, 0.1 grains really doesnt make a difference. Neck tension and seating depth make way more of a difference.

@water737 2 жыл бұрын

have you got a vid detailing all the gear you currently use? im seeing all the reviews and i plan to go through those im a relatively new shooter and brand new to reloading im trying to operate both off of cry once buy once and also budget to a degree, cheers for the info!

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Water666! That's a GREAT idea and I'll put out a video very soon around the equipment I have used (budget) and what I use today with options. Thanks for a great idea my friend and thanks for watching!

@water737 2 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy secondary question, where does everyone i see with em get the desk mounting plates for presses, you know instead of bolting it to a desk which i dont want to do the frame for under a press that lets it be used on a desk and moved about, or is that a make it yourself issue?

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

@@water737 There are a number of options out there. I'd start here: www.grafs.com/catalog/category/categoryId/4931 and just see who has what for your press and then expand your search from there. I mounted mine down near the end of the bench so I'd still have bench room and then a little room to the right of the press. It's worked great so far, but honestly, I could have just bought some wood clamps and clamped it down when I want to use it and remove the clamps and the press when I don't. Hope you find a solution for your needs!

@projekt127films5 4 жыл бұрын

I also forgot to mention I have DJ equipment, $1400 mixer & thousand dollar turn tables also 4K TV maybe something I can plug all of these devices into or is that not recommended? Thank you in advance my friend

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hi projekt. The model I got only has two plugs and not sure if you can "double up" on them. My model is the AC-215A. and their website has more information: www.furmanpower.com/product/10a-two-outlet-power-conditioner-AC-215A Hope this helps!

@garyjohns4711 2 жыл бұрын

another thing you can look at, is the charge lite is only good for x amount of hours/ time turned on before it fails to work so every hour left on is shortening the chargemaster's overall life !

@stricklyreloading8494 3 жыл бұрын

AWESOME video! i'd like to see you set the chargemaster .1gn light, and then trickle in one kernel of powder at a time until the scale just tips to your final charge weight, then weigh that on the A&D. Also, check out the comparison videos i've done on my channel with the chargemaster lite!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words Strictly Reloading! I will definitely check out your videos!

@stricklyreloading8494 3 жыл бұрын

The 4GunGuy thanks man! Great job again on your video! I know first hand how aggravating and time consuming it can be to make these type of videos! I appreciate your giving back to the Reloading community!

@rajoshusse 5 ай бұрын

Close enough for rock & roll.

@The4GunGuy 5 ай бұрын

Well said Bumpa! Thanks for watching my friend!

@mo30284 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, you make good videos. It's kinda frustrating about powder measures. I have a Prometheus 3500.00. Very fast very accurate. Same real-world results. It just doesn't make that much difference if you pay attention to your reloading methods.

@mo30284 3 жыл бұрын

Also to answer the question. No I would not buy a Prometheus or an Auto Trickler again

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi MO! Thanks for the kind words! Agree that once you get to the kernel level of measurement, they're all very close. That Prometheus is a nice setup!

@triax12j 3 жыл бұрын

Looks like I'm a little late to this party. I'm curious to who makes that pan you use on the chargemaster lite?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi James! It's an Area 419 powder cup (www.area419.com/product/billet-chargemaster-lite-powder-cup/) but it looks like they're out of stock for now. Works great though. Thanks for watching my friend and Shoot Straight!

@chrishoesel 3 жыл бұрын

I too, stopped worrying about drops within .02 There's no way I'm gonna be cutting kernels in half, or dropping single kernels in. I'm just hitting steel at 1000.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely Chris! I'm getting ready to release a video comparing my hand loads with some off the shelf ammo and boy are there some surprises! Thanks for watching my friend and stay tuned!

@livincincy4498 3 жыл бұрын

I hand count grain by grain, weighing each grain, sorting by size, and stacking them in the case by hand...

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

YOU SIR...ARE AWESOME! I'll bet your SD's are LESS than one and your ES's are less than 3! Thanks for watching and the great comment Livin!

@livincincy4498 3 жыл бұрын

No deviation and use the same bullet hole for the entire group...

@znutar 3 жыл бұрын

And of course you dehydrate your powder in advance...😁

@bowtiedooley 4 жыл бұрын

Also what powder cup are you using to catch throws in your chargemaster lite??

@The4GunGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hi BowTieDooley! I'm using the Area 419 powder cup: www.area419.com/product/billet-chargemaster-lite-powder-cup/ but looks like they're out of stock. I really like the cup for the CML and the cup that comes with the AutoTrickler is just fine for me so far. Some others have invested in the Area 419 cup for the Autotrickler as well, but I just decided to stop spending money on the thing! Thanks for watching and the comments!

@bowtiedooley 4 жыл бұрын

The 4GunGuy thank you for the response!

@johnblythe8229 3 жыл бұрын

Something I remember from Chemistry - you should use tweezers to pick up your weights for setting your your scale. Over time salt and oil from your body will change your weights. Just a suggestion 😊

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey John! Great point and I have been doing that after some other comments. Thanks for the input my friend!

@johnblythe8229 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy An excellent video of yours. I’ve shared with multi others contemplating the investment in the upgraded option or not. Well orchestrated analysis.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much for the kind words John. I want us all to share our experiences and hopefully guide others to the right decision for THEM, not what we want to push on them.

@johnblythe8229 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy It’s interesting when you know you’ve come amongst good people. Glad to know you 👍

@donbarile8916 3 жыл бұрын

I have a CML.... and all the time in the world. Nuf' said.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Don! TOTALLY AGREE with you my friend! I hope this video did show that your purchase of a CML was well worth the money. Thanks for watching and shoot straight!

@davecollins2097 3 жыл бұрын

Second vid I've seen checking RCBS accuracy against a lab grade scale. RCBS stayed within a 2 kernel spread without trickling, knocked it down to 1 kernel spread by trickling, and with what he used for powder, it showed it at .040 gr/kernel. Sure makes a person wonder, is the new high grade Chargemaster even worth it, at 200.00 US cheaper than the V3, still over a grand up here. V3 runs about 13-1400 in Cda. Heck of a decision for people to make.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Dave...Totally agree. As I said in the video, I don't regret my decision, but to be honest, if I wasn't as serious as I am about this PRS stuff, I'd probably still be using the chargemaster lite and being fine with it. And by serious I really mean, just my personal performance...I'm not going to win any matches, but it's just nice to know I've done everything I can to get the most consistent rounds. Thanks for watching my friend and shoot straight!

@davecollins2097 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy I guess it all boils down to your OCD level. I would love to buy the V3 to pin down one more variable, but, I can temper that thought by considering a 1 click error on elevation or a 1 click error in reading wind or a mistake in shot setup & execution resulting in a flyer also. Very often competitions come down to that. That's how the best shooters wind up at the top or the bottom of the standings in a shoot, that day. When winning or losing by a few thou is in play, the human factor rules.

@znutar 3 жыл бұрын

As a scientist generally a precision balance should be place on a thick slab of granite to isolate vibration.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Eric! I agree, I'm just too lazy to lug a thick slab of granite around. Seems to be working fine this way. I ran a ladder test last weekend and had SD's of less than 5 and ES's less than 10, so about as good as I could hope for from my overall process. Thanks for watching!

@gunner45357308 Жыл бұрын

I purchased a RCBS Chargemaster lite and used it for 18 months, it then stopped working. The touch pad will not always respond, sometimes it will not calibrate, it will not stabilize at the 100gm step. It will also not turn off, I have to unplug it. It was used once a week or so, calibrated every time. RCBS says well it is over a year old, so sorry not covered under warranty. Here is a repair shop and they can maybe help. I have not called the third party repair shop number they gave me yet. Don't know what the cost will be to repair it. Safe to say I would not recommend an RCBS scale. Update the repair shop gets a flat rate of $155 to repair this unit, plus I need to pay for shipping it to them. What would you do?

@The4GunGuy Жыл бұрын

Hi Gunner! Sounds like your in between a rock and a hard place there. So you got 18 months of use out of the RCBS. Now you need to spend an additional $155 and hope it continues to function properly. If this was me, I'd rack it up to 18 months of use and throw it away because I would not have confidence in it any longer...But that's just me. I'm really shocked at how bad production quality has become in everything these days. Now, what to get next is really going to be up to your budget. I haven't used anything but my Auto Trickler for the past 3 years, so not really sure of the quality of the newer powder scales. Do what I do...Set up your matrix in a spreadsheet, weigh what you're looking for and budget and go from there. PLEASE give us an update on what you choose and your thoughts on it. Wish I could be more help here and thanks for watching my friend!

@DLN-ix6vf Жыл бұрын

should you not be using the Chargemaster Supreme as the cost of that powder measure is similar to the Auto-Trickler V3

@The4GunGuy Жыл бұрын

Hi DLN! I didn't have the CMS at the time so I used what I had. Thanks for watching!

@danielmorrison7579 2 жыл бұрын

Where can I get more info about your loading press shown in this viedo?

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Daniel, if you mean the RED press for case prep, that's a Forster Co-Ax Press. If you mean the bullet seating press, it's a K&M Arbor Press. Hope that helps and thanks for watching!

@garyjohns4711 2 жыл бұрын

1 hr warm is more than the charge lite needs ,,, if you drop immediately after turning on the charge lite you will see it drops about 2 gr heaver. then after a1 hr warm-up,,,,, I see it needs a 30 min warm up to eliminate the 2 gr overcharge,, it also depends on the room temperature .... a 30 degree takes longer to warm up the charge lite vs a 70-degree room.... 30 degree room need 1 hr to warm up. a 70 degree room only need 30 min to warm up..... (this all is my personal experience wth the RCBS charge lite)

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Gary! Thanks for the input here...Really appreciate it and you're watching!

@MobiusUSAH 3 жыл бұрын

One comment you might not have gotten. The anti-static mat is at best pointless and at worst potentially more dangerous because you have the scale sitting on a mouse pad (high dielectric), sitting on wood (moderate dielectric), sitting on foam feet (high dielectric). You may be grounded, but the scale foundation sandwich you have has created a reasonably decent capacitor where you could potentially have different charges between the mat and the metal components of the scale. The greater the dielectric property, the more charge you can build. For a truly safe operation, you need to tie the metal chassis of the scale to the ground point of the anti-static mat. Depending on the wiring diagram of the stabilizer, that may have a pass through ground, it may not. If not, you now have an isolated ground point on the scale that is not at the same reference as your static mat. That could be bad news. You may have accidentally created a ground loop. You might want to figure out a way to tie those ground points together so they are all the same reference. Just a thought.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Mobius! WOW...That is great advice my friend! I will look at that tieback immediately and update my grounding accordingly. I set this up based on my research, but sounds like MANY other folks are doing it wrong as well. I'm also going to post a general comment pointing to your comment. Thanks again Mobius...THIS is what I want on my channel, great feedback and constructive comments! Shoot Straight my friend!

@MobiusUSAH 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy No problem! I bet no one ever told you that you had to be an electrical engineer to reload! LOL! As modern technology creeps into what was the sole realm of mechanical systems, we're seeing this more and more. I want to be clear that I'm not SURE that you have an issue, but it is a potential. The best advice I could give is to be sure that the static mat is grounded to the same plug that the scale is plugged into. That would probably solve the issue. Then your mat and the scale would be at the same ground reference at least. ETA: I just realized that scale probably uses a wall-wart. That's tougher. If the scale is DC (low voltage) it's not required to be chassis grounded the way line voltage equipment is. So the ground is probably isolated from the plug as well. If the body of the scale is metal, you could probably tap a screw on the scale body and run a small wire to the mat. If there are no metal parts that you could contact, it may be fine.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@MobiusUSAH I just checked and yes, it's a 12v supply. I'll tap a screw and run it to the mat, which is grounded into the power supply I mention in the video. Thanks again for your guidance here!

@MobiusUSAH 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy You're very welcome! I'm not a precision shooter, but I'm still fascinated by the process. I'm a lowly 3 Gun Guy... LOL!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

@@MobiusUSAH I came from 3-gun and still shoot a few matches...I like PRS because we don't have to reset! :)

@nickwashburn723 3 жыл бұрын

you can see the scale moving around when you touch that base you have.. not sure if it's worth whatever dampening you get out of it if its moving the scale around. You obviously are more experienced than I am though. I just got into reloading a few months ago and found beam scales to be frustratingly slow and cheaper digital scales to be hilariously worthless. I just bought the FX-120i for myself for my birthday without the autotrickler. Maybe I'll get the autotrickler for christmas :)

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Nick! Yep, that scale is even moving while I'm explaining it which shows you how touchy that thing is. When I'm reloading, the A/C vent to the room is closed, the ceiling fan is off, my phone and the iPad I use to enter information into the AT are 4 feet away, and I watch my breathing as it's dropping. I tell you that thing is very, very touchy. I should have shown you on camera, but the dampening does allow me to seat the bullet while the next drop is in progress as long as I seat the bullet very smoothly. Thanks for watching and the keen eye there buddy! Enjoy your new scale and Shoot Straight!

@nickwashburn723 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy Thanks for the reply man. Totally makes sense why you have it set up that way. Man, I wish I had someone like you that was willing to share their knowledge near me that I could learn from. I'm absolutely hooked on this stuff!

@Madaboutshooting 5 ай бұрын

I have 3 RCBS chargemasters, the 1500, the Lite and the Link and I check them against each other when using and they always show the same loads, they cost me the same here in the UK as one of the system's above (Supertrickler or Autotrickler) and I'm pretty sure they work faster then one Autotrickler/Supertrickler and I shoot super long range with a 50BMG and 408Ct and get good results - would I like a system like yours ... yes, am I going to sell my 3 RCBS's ....No

@The4GunGuy 5 ай бұрын

Hi Mad! As I always say, find what works for you and gives you the results you're shooting for, and don't worry about what anyone else does or has. Glad you have your equipment and process down. Thanks for watching my friend!

@Madaboutshooting 5 ай бұрын

@@The4GunGuy I love your videos sir - clearly you put a huge amount of effort into them - if I was starting from scratch I’d definitely consider the more accurate scales but for me it’s not worth changing now

@scorpion2669 3 жыл бұрын

What press and dies were you using in this video?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

HiTerrance! I use a K&M press and the seating die is the Wilson...A tip for you, don't mess with the markings on the die, use your calipers to measure the length of the die for your various seating depths, I find that works much better. Thanks for watching my friend and Shoot Straight!

@kenkikuchi4084 3 жыл бұрын

Good scientific evaluation of the hypothesis. Conclusion: weak (chicken)

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Ken! Nah, not chicken my friend, just letting people know what they're getting with either option. As I said and have told many people, if I was just going to plink or wasn't that interested in my ammo performing as good as can be in a match, I'd go with the ChargeMaster. But, I want to get as consistent as possible for MY uses within MY budget, so I'm glad I'm using the AutoTrickler (Prometheus or Sartorius, both over $5k). The purpose of my videos is to educate and not tell people what to buy, which is what I hope is the case here. People get too caught up in one person telling them what to do/buy instead of doing their own research...I just provide some direction for them to do so. Anyway, thanks for watching and your kudos on my evaluation of the hypothesis. Sorry I fell a little short on the conclusion for you my friend!

@timegger3082 3 жыл бұрын

What press and dies are you using here my friend?

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

HI Tim! I use the Forester Press and Redding dies...see my reloading equipment video at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mJ2Rlq6rx5PNfJs.html for details on everything I use and how I set up my bench. Thanks for watching Tim and for the sub! Shoot Straight my friend!

@AutoTrickler 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, great video, drop me an email if you are interested in improving your testing methodology related to long range shooting.

@jeffgadd2077 2 жыл бұрын

How much difference would that be out to 1 mile?

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jeff, roughly 5 1/2", that's just taking into account the velocity difference. Then you'd need to look at the Lowest velocity and the highest velocity of each and see. So given the 2770 with and ES of 16, let's subtract 8 for the lowest and add 8 for the highest. So now we get a low end velocity of 2762 and a high end velocity of 2770, which would give us a 21.8" difference for the CML numbers and if we do the same type of calculation for the AT we get an elevation difference of 12.27", so almost half of the CML. If you're going out to a mile, the the AT would benefit you in this ONE variable. But, there are many other factors affecting these numbers, so you need to take all of them into consideration as well. Thanks for watching!

@jeffgadd2077 2 жыл бұрын

So I'm loading 300 prc for 1 mile. I'm trying to justify the extra money for the scale... Besides loading speed. 6 inch variation at 1 mile isn't much. I'm not competitive other than seeking perfection. I suppose that if the target is 24 in x 24 in it might be worth it but.... How much $ in extra equipment is it going to cost?

@ouruiz 3 жыл бұрын

You might as well buy a Prometheus scale if you wanted a kernel accurate scale.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Ouruiz! Yeah for an extra $2,200 I could have, but didn’t want to spend that much. Thanks for watching!

@garyjohns4711 2 жыл бұрын

a few hours to warm up???? what you guys think you know more than the manufacturer ???

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Gary! Just going off of what I've researched and discussed with others using this equipment. From what I understand, these scales are meant to be on for long periods of time, hence the warm up period. Better safe than sorry. You gave me a good idea for another video on this...make some drops immediately after turning it on, then another batch after say an hour or two. Thanks, and thanks for watching my friend!

@garyjohns4711 2 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy like I said ,,,,guess you guys know better than the manufacturers do!!!

@rudolphferdinand3634 3 жыл бұрын

To put it plainly, no! I have two Chargemaster Lites period!

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Rudolph! Yep, I would agree with you but again with my caveat around what type of shooting you're going to do. I LOVE my CML and use it to reload the ammo for my Bergara 6.5 (wife's rifle) along with the AT to speed up the process. I don't really worry about the loads with her rifle because she usually shoots only out to 600 yards. Glad the CML is working out so well for you and thanks again for watching my friend! Shoot Straight!

@evanwindom3265 2 жыл бұрын

There are a host of comparison videos on KZfaq. Guys spend a lot of time and energy on telling folks what they think the "top 5 _____" are. There are videos about the 5 worst whatevers. One video I haven't seen anyone do, though, is which gun enthusiast has the most obnoxious bumper music. What is it about gun videos that they seem to require loud and obnoxious grinding guitars?

@The4GunGuy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Evan, thanks for the comment! I guess guns and guitars just go together for us shooters! Thanks for watching and hanging in there over the music!

@drhhodge8243 3 жыл бұрын

Unless your shooting 2,000 plus yards the lites just fine

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi DRH, I'd tend to agree with you if you're not competing at a high level. For competition I would probably bring that range back to 900 or so. This past weekend we had some 4" targets at 650 and 6" at 850 which I hit and not sure I'd hit them with the accuracy I had with the CML and all other reloading processes of mine remaining equal. BUT, with that said, I believe I could have hit the larger 14", 10", 8" targets out of the targets at those ranges (they were KYL rack of varying size), so again, for a decent score I totally agree with you. Hey thanks for watching and your input my friend!

@drhhodge8243 3 жыл бұрын

The 4GunGuy thanks for the video it was great!! We try to get so precise with our hand loads can’t forget we are human and every shot isn’t perfect but we can try to be perfect

@mybuickskill6979 3 жыл бұрын

I want to say something. The gear you use is a choice you make as well. So if you miss at the shooting stage because you trusted your equipment and it failed you. Its still your fault. So whether you use a slave to weigh your charge or a 100k$ charge weigher. You will have a bad day and still miss anyways. Just dont beat your slave about a bad day you had at the range.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Doesn't! TOTALLY agree with you. That is why I say in my videos that what I'm really trying to do here is remove all OTHER factors except me. I feel really confident that when I make a 1,000 yard hit it was me and when I miss 4 shots at 400 yards...You got it...It was me! And it is funny that that is the way it usually goes...I hit 900 yards and miss 400 yards! Thanks for the great comment my friend!

@mybuickskill6979 3 жыл бұрын

@@The4GunGuy lol 400 yards after 1000 seems to take on its own mind. A person tends to put the same mindset into 400 that they did to the 1000 and it completely throws everything. At 400 its just a shot... At 1000 you have to account for more of everything 😂

@MrTdacosta 3 жыл бұрын

FYI, you shouldn’t be handling the test weight with your fingers as the oil from your skin will alter the weight.

@The4GunGuy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Skip! Great point. Yeah, I thought about that as I was reviewing the video and was going to put a text note in the video on that point. Thanks for the observation and for watching my friend! Shoot Straight!