Ofc so called "low tours" are "bad". What's your point?(haven't watched video yet, just wanna comment on the title) Watched the video. So actual(non clickbait) title should be "MVM stats between different skill levels"

Oh Yeah ? did you Finish Mvm.pineapple.tf Son ? Beacuse you damn idiot.

@@Barmem Truly confused on how the current title is clickbait

@@masterambush8644 yea exactly the question is in the title then he answers it. Where is the clickbait?

this guy doesn't know how huntsman bleeds work

Cause it's pretty much impossible to quantify. I know too that as long as the player is willing to listen and learn, nothing can go wrong, no matter how bad they are. I needed a way to score each player in order to get proper statistics, so had to stick with this idea. Maybe it could be better, but well.

@@DEWILL Understood.

@@DEWILL low tour =/= low skill, boot camp exists

@@DEWILL have you ever played celeste

@@DEWILL also,demo being the only one with not everyone doing well because a guy WAS DRUNK while playing is very fitting lmao

Think I said it at the start of the video, though

That in of itself is not(or at least shouldn't be) controversial. There just so happens to be small and vocal subset of the TF2 community that uses that basic fact of co-op games to bully new players for some reason.

It’s a knee jerk response to things like Tacobot.

it's not; this controversy is imaginary and is manufactured by the toxic people to draw attention away from their bad behavior by misrepresenting the opposition, who doesn't like being bitched at for not being a god at MvM, as refusing to acknowledge the skill difference.

Try playing easier tours, such as anything that isn't two cities and they probably will be less toxic. I don't know if you are playing two cities, but more serious people tend to play that so learning the game is easier and people are more relaxed

@@kaimacdonald3006 Yeah I am. Thanks for the advice.

The high-tours aren't always fun to play with, unfortunately, and they'll usually leave 5 seconds after joining. I hope you can get a better experience of Mann Up one day.

Average high tour: join game Check tour count of every player if anyone has less than 999 tours leave the game repeat

@@ghoulbuster1 About correct.

all gas pyros are in fact apes though. regardless of tour count, if you use gas, you are not playing pyro to its fullest potential, and you are demonstrating a willful lack of skill. pyro can be a good class in the hands of a good player, and 99% of the time that good player will be a high tour, and 100% of the time that good player will not use gas. gas passer alone has not made low tour pyros bad, but it has made them significantly worse. in hundreds of tours i have never once seen a single gas pyro play well. i have however seen non-gas pyros play well, regardless of their tour count. however, judging by your obvious lack of knowledge and skill in mvm demonstrated by your latest video Weezy, your opinion here doesnt come as a surprise to me. in that one video alone, i could easy pick out many points that you made, or footage you showed, that shows your lack of understanding and your lack of skill, and yet people still take your videos seriously. there are a few of your videos that are actually good and spread good enough advice, especially the class specific videos (not all of them), but lately it has become obvious that you are another boosted high tour who is spreading bad advice to new players, because you think that it is good advice even though it isnt. meanwhile the actual mvm pros make dozens of amazing videos and guides which essentially get ignored because theyre "toxic" players or because their guides say something controversial.

Tacoboi

@@Tom-cj5wt ok tacobot

@@Tom-cj5wtSo what I'm getting here is that people don't like explode on ignite gas passer because it doesn't need skill, which (Don't flame me) is a valid point, but even high tours have to agree that the thing is Overpowered and if that's the best thing a noob can use, don't yell at them and try to kick them, Engineers use wranglers which also doesn't need skill and is broken (All you need to do is point and click at an enemy while doubling firerate and boosting effective HP) but do they get yelled at and kicked at?

@@andyzhang8091 im a high tour and i dont agree that gas is OP. There are far better secondaries such as detonator and thermal thruster. You dont need gas to kill crowds of bots, pyro is good enough at that without gas. Also i dont use wrangler, and most good high tours dont either, short circuit is usually used as it pairs well with widowmaker (so we dont use rescue ranger either).

He is not a chad, he is the chad of the chads

@@aqop5548 he is the omega chad

@@yugiO608 He is the Chaddest of Chads

@@cardinalsnail6217 he is the chaddest of even the chaddest of chads

unupgraded f2p pyro proving once again that even blind noobs can win mvm. get that man a medal

My city funded a study to evaluate whether more cars makes traffic worse. Pretty sure they spent several hundred thousand dollars on it.

@@pcarrierorange 🧠

Now It's scientifically proven at least...

Bro that video is dogwater. How bad are new players ? Thumbnail : very Okay thanks dewill no need to watch the 30m. Thus video was made to please the mvm cringelords

@@sake5965 what the hell do you mean by mvm cringelords

Bro noone gives a shit that youre bad ar mvm or whatever just play the game. Mvm community is worse than trading community, only manchildren coping their way through life.

I'm happy to say I've never experienced this. Everyone I've seen has been well mannered and patient, when I actually get Australian servers.

Over 80 tours and I haven't seen a scout getting votekicked for missing money in like a year, god I hope it gets better for you. A fun quote from a friend of mine, btw: in MvM, Scout is only as good as his team allows him to be.

@@EpslionBear That's even stupider somehow what.

Same tbh. I never touch mann up. Only boot camp and community servers and I know my game perfectly fine, but if I were to play M.U I'd probably get fucked 'cause "he's low tour!" My brother in christ i've beaten 666 as every class and sub class just for the heck of it, tf you on about.

mvm isn't that toxic. heck even mann up is pretty chill

also consider the somewhat regular presence of community MvM events -- while that might not affect performance of classes contingent on pre-existing mission knowledge, like Demo and Spy and maybe some others depending on context, community events can help build gamesense greatly in a way that the amount of tours will never be able to accurately portray. In a way, the moment you play community MvM and find success, your tour count immediately becomes an irreparably outdated and incorrect statement of your skill level. I consider myself an average or maybe even above average player solely because of my hours of experience outside of Mann Up, but being on only tour 2 on every operation *within* Mann Up... that'll never be something I could easily prove to a player that sees the 2 next to my name and immediately passes judgement. Tl;dr tour number means nothing, bad actors need to stop kicking low tours on join and actually see their performance first.

Some low tours can be people who play mostly on boot camp and only done a tour or two to try it out.

​@@iamleftieOn my 20th tour of Two Cities I had a guy with over 1500 tours ask me if I had reset my tour badge because I was playing Heavy ridiculously well for my tour count. I play a LOT of community MvM servers so the experience carries over.

Exactly what I wanted to say. Sad that it's true.

@@DEWILL You’re kind of guilty of spreading this…

Huh.

People in the internet cannot form their own opinions so they use excuses like tacobot stereotype to do it for them

I hate seeing the game like this, it wasnt like that when I played frequently and that wasnt even that long ago

Dont forget the second tick of firing speed don't work

Having a friend with some experience helps a lot. I've been helping some friends learn too when playing MvM.

The challenge in MvM is getting decent enough teammates tbh. Community MvM does a much better job at being actually challenging.

3am 💀 for me

It’s impossible to quantify if they played games outside of paid mann up, because it doesn’t count. So if they had low tour count but played good, they’ll get recorded as good low tours. Plus, I don’t kick players. As long as they’re playing.

@@DEWILL wasn't saying you did kick low tours and I have since reached my twentieth tour and beyond on expert as that is the cheaper option. Though, I think tf2 should have some way of quantifying boot camp playthroughs or even have a way to do mann-up nightmare missions though I guess once you have the meta for nightmare down it would just be too easy to farm.

K

That's fair. Not everyone can afford to waste money on what is essentially a poor financial decision.

Same with my friend and I. We both have about 1.3K hours in TF2 (probably 1K hours just in MvM), but neither of us have used a tour of duty ticket because we can't justify the cost of buying it just to get rewards we don't care about. He's about the best scout I've ever seen playing boot camp, and even when we have a terrible team, he will still collect damn near all the money. If he does miss money, its usually because someone killed a spy at the spawn on Rottenburg, and they didn't collect the money afterwards. When we have terrible teams, we usually just leave because its not worth the time. Unfortunately, like 75% of the servers we go into on advanced anymore are like this, and it can get annoying at times when new players go straight to advanced or expert, when there are easier waves to practice on, but we never vote kick anyone unless they're being a total ass-hat for no reason. If we have a team that looks like they're even remotely trying we always give them a chance, and we try to help them out if they're willing to accept it. We both get that not everyone has the money or wants to pay to play Mann Up, and they're just in it for the fun of it, like we are.

That’s why I started to record what role I was playing in the game after some recordings. Maybe doing some statistics with those can bring some interesting results! And despite the fact that I played Sniper a lot compared with others, I still think that pick rate feels natural. At least in my experiences, people just not want to give him a shot

Good point. This is rather personal and ambiguous thing, but certainly something shouldn't get ignored.

I dont like playing with high tours either, I play a crap ton of boot camp because I like to try weird and wacky strats but whenever I mann up and play meta I just get kicked for not having more than double digit tours or for trying something new, or even worse because I forgot I had the gas equipped for pub meming and getting Screamed at before inevitable kick, It feels like a chore these days to even que for mann up mode these days

That's my reason for not playing with cheaters. I play Mann Up for the fun of MvM and the disappointment of my gambling.

literally me

@@risa1467 True i guess, I just think theyre going to start using this video as an excuse for their "reasoning for kicking low tours because theyre so much worse, look, this video proves it", just a scapegoat in a way

Yes, this is the kind of videos that make everybody kick me as pyro

Yeah in 2 cities, spy is probably at his least useful, I always said to make spy better and less nieche is to give him the money health like scout as that not make a somewhat decent alternative/secondary money collector, but give him a lot of survivable

@@starmaker75 "spy is least useful in the missions with many giant medics and giant blackbox soldiers" what?

valve replace robot sapping with converting robots to your team momentarily pls

It's just sad that everything Spy does, other classes do better.

@@teedeegremlin oh hello undercards guy Didn't expect to see ya here

Amen, sometimes it’s unavoidable when someone kills in a very obscure spot and doesn’t pick-up the money. Or killing where the money is unreachable.

Usually I just joke about missed money and move on, haven't seen Scouts get votekicked over money in a while.

@@teedeegremlin True. Doesn't happen so often now.

I like to play Scout and I got this once on that really tiny map that only gives you 400 credits at the start (forgot the name). It's also where a whole bunch of heavy bots stampede through in the first round. I have never gotten a good start in that mission lol. Either way, I missed a couple of credits and this dude said "scout your job is to collect money", which I was doing. The only reason I missed some is bcause everyone kept dying, including me. Don't even get me started on those giant scout bots. It was still at A. Now recently I played again as Scout and won an A+ game on an advanced mission. Felt real good.

@@thefruityking6722 Fun quote from a friend of mine: Scout's only as good as the rest of his team. You can't collect money efficiently if your team is performing poorly.

i've played a lot of community mvm and barely any tours, so random players are probably gonna be surprised how well I play the next time I do mann up

@@lordvgames yea same as me before playing my first mann up (not long ago tbh) i had a lot of knowledge already from community mvm/YT guides, first mann up they wanted to kick me i ended up preety much carring (by DMG) with demo so yea

Yeah you have a low tour player that was good at mvm for playing the community servers.

I know right

Sadly, if you play the same missions over and over again, Demoman becomes too good of a choice to ignore. Community MvM for the win! And Spy's problem is that even if you know how to play him, he's still only good at killing giants and absolute dog water at basically everything else. He lacks versatility.

@@cinex20 Spy is also good at taking down dangerous commons and is an ok for killing medics. Plus Demo requires a lot of time and money compared to spy

Yeah the your eternal reward is stupid op since the robots are dumb and can’t see through disguises

@@oliverthedum2129 worst option; nerfed to be slower in auto disguise

@@craftyrobandicootproductio1424 oh was it I didn’t realise

yea and he kinda started the tacobot problem too lol

It’ll be pretty much impossible to quantify that way. Had to stick with the method that is easily quantifiable

Who knew!

Peak Demoman actually does require a fair amount of awareness as you gotta know when and where you prepare stickies for the giants.

Arguable, but agree on that some amount

he should be in jail by now

How did you twist the video this bad

You can try Boot Camp if you don't wanna waste money, but it's fair if you don't want to try MvM.

You can be considered as a resetter then

Then play boot camp. it's free and you get no rewards

@@kaimacdonald3006 ehhh, no thanks. Playing bootcamp is unpleasant experience because its full of clueless newbies that will do whatever the hell they want and never listen to you attempting to coordinate them. Payed missions have way better players. On the other hand, ticket players are often toxic meta slaves that will scold you for trying to do something different. Because they are not playing for fun, they are working to grind items as fast and efficiently as possible. So thats why i stopped playing completly. Its like there is no good in-between between those two extremes. Absolute freedom of idiocy or total lack of freedom for the sake of optimisation.

No because the pyro already had a good weapon that deals damage, the flamethrower.

@@poidythewizard4509 but its saying no to whats a good weapon with high damage

@@poidythewizard4509 Pyro's Gas Passer shreds everything on MvM and makes tours a lot faster, why do you discourage the use of it?

@@lordpumpkinhead265 first of all, i don't discourage at all the use of gas, besides that i do agree that it's unbalanced bc of the little money you need to upgrade it, and also it wasn't necessary to give hime a weapon that "shreds everything" when he already had a good primary weapon. Still most pyros don't know how to play pyro and perform poorly on game, even with gas passer. But they think they are doing good only bc of throwing the can and they own that bad habit.

@@poidythewizard4509 Pyro had the Backburner and the Phlog for MvM, and outside of that he didn't have any secondaries. MAYBE the Detonator or the Scorch Shot, but nothing major.

i respect that

The fact that you can even manage to meme without getting kicked is surprising, unless you played with friends. Well, what matters is you're having fun.

And refuse to do anything that we ask them to anyway, because "uhhh uhh i main pyrooo!!!!"

I can't aim for shit with Sniper lol. Can never reliably get headshots with it so it's one of my lowest played class. MvM is an absolute no for me.

sounds like utopia.... because i only met ONE persone with this potential (and he wasnt using passer) So.... No.

@@mendyshelios0451 the vast majority are pretty bad yes, but if a high tour or even some mid tour picks pyro the chances aren't low that they'll top the scoreboard by the end

pyro is really good early game since he is the cheapest class to upgrade but he requires a lot of skill to utilize the most of him

@@ihazsucks ehhhh, early game pyro is rough becuase you don't have money for resistances yet and you can't output damage for shit at longer range, it's doable if you're very careful but otherwise you'll just be adding to the pyro who dies 10 times per wave stereotype

@@ralphthejedimaster don't rely on resistances and get movement speed or jump height instead, extra mobility is crucial for pyro since he relies on close range damage and he is very squishy