Thanks for the video. This was spot on. I started with Paterson tanks, but can’t use them anymore. I was injured in the Army and gave up on developing film in the early 2000s because I have almost no feeling in my hands. When the LabBox came out I was sold regardless of its price. It is by no means perfect for all the reasons you mentioned, but it has given me the ability to develop my own film again. For that, I’m thankful. Cheers!

I learned on Paterson tanks. Once you get the hang of it it’s easy. I’ve never used a dark bag, I had a light tight room with a counter. Planning to do that in my basement bathroom now that I don’t have access to that lab.

You can actually put two rolls of 120 into one spool, you just need to tape the end of one to another. It will make your three wheeler into a 4 rolls of 120 at one dev. It is great.

Only just found out about the Lab Box. Great idea but I couldn't cope with the cons so will stick with Paterson. Trickiest part of Paterson routine is loading film. Didn't get on with dark bag; the inside quickly got very humid and the film would stick on the reel. Then realised our downstairs toilet has no windows and is totally dark so I load in there, sat on the can. Bonus of this is that if the film gets stuck it's easy to wind it back into the canister and start over. Other things to help; I use a pencil to coat the inside of the spool grooves with graphite. And I blast the reels with a hairdryer until hot just before starting. This stems from making sure they're completely dry but it perhaps helps the film to slip on too. Works for me, anyway. Great vid, thanks!

Thanks for this. I was curious about the lab box. I practiced spooling like 100 times out of the bag with a botched roll of film, now its super easy.

There’s also “one” more system Is Steel Reels and there are a lot of different brands. My favorite one is the Durst plastic tank with some Hewes reels I even find it easier than plastic reels to load. You should try it some day!

Been using the Paterson for years now and love that it made it so easy for me to jump to 4x5. But I do miss and wish I invested in the metal systems that I used when learning! They were so robust and pretty compact. One major thing to look out for with the Paterson is make sure not to drop those reels. Good luck loading your film when your loosing one or both of those small ball bearings! Seriously a pain. Also mine leaks so much when I invert I have to just do the twisty twist!

You know what’s weird? When I learned in the 90’s there was one of the professors that insisted we use stainless Nikon tanks. Thankfully, my professor let us use plastic omega tanks and reels (which are a lot like the Paterson ones). When I put my personal kit together for the first time, I used jobo tanks and reels. I had a whole modular kit that could be stacked to do between 1 and 8 35mm rolls. It was pretty sweet. Then I gave all that stuff away when I went digital. (Pretty dumb). When I completely reassembled my film kit… I found jobo tanks were ridiculously expensive unobtainium. So I went with the Paterson. It’s fine. Also, I feel compelled to point out that you don’t actually need a dark bag if you have an actual darkroom. Idk. You completely lost me at $249. If film photography is still around in fifty years… that film box thingo won’t be. Just get a few dummy rolls and practice while you’re watching tv.

I know you know this but agitation needs to be timed and precise (including the pattern) for consistent results :-) Anyway, check out Stand Development; no agitation, long developing times, different results.

Ok hear me out. I'm about to say the J word but stick with me. I haven't used a Lab Box but I started on Patterson's (way back in high school which was a...a while ago, we'll say). So when I got back into film I got Patterson. They're great! Versatile, affordable, plenty of options (I too started developing 4x5 using the MOD54 for example). You mentioned film bunching up on the reels, particularly when wet. I find the Jobo reels are FANTASTIC for loading, even when not completely dry (though I wouldn't load them completely wet either). So you might want to consider the 1500 or 2500 tanks. Wait hang on, don't go away! You don't need a full on crazy expensive Jobo processor to use either of them! The 1500 in particular is small and tidy (but can only do 35 and 120 and/or can even be used for paper developing if you grab the extension tank). The 2500 can do 35 up to 4x5 (up to 6 sheets like the MOD54). Both can be used with hand agitation or hand rolling. You don't need a processor at all. Neither have a stirring stick though, so you have to roll or hand invert. Between the two, for hand agitation, the 1500 is way better if you don't wanna do 4x5 since it requires less chemicals. I develop BW using Xtol-Replenishment to solve the problem of volume. But for certain color kits, it's kind of an issue. But if you do rotary style inversions using some skateboard wheels and some wood, you only need small amounts of chemistry. You can go a step further by cobbling together a motor and some things, which is what I did. In my case, I built a motorized rotary by making some 3D printed parts, a cheap motor, and an ATTiny (a small Arduino) with a few other bits of electronics. It's not as fly as a Jobo processor but it gets the job done. And is totally optional - you can buy the hand roller from Jobo but it's silly expensive for what it is - you just need some casters or skatewheels, some screws and a board and you can likely get the same thing. Sorry for the long response! I'm not affiliated with Jobo in any way I promise! I just have had great experiences with their reels so wanted to share my thoughts there.

Finally someone who gets me! Every-time someone says Patterson I say, "Adam Driver?"

Video @ 13:40 " I've gotten really good at spooling 120" - A quick tip is to use rubbing alcohol to wash the reel then blast it with a blow dryer. Any contamination or moisture on the reel will make the 120 film edges stick & bind - - - hence the *blinding frustration (*pitch dark)...

Top tip for loading 120 onto the Paterson reels is to clip the corners of the leading edge of the film makes it so much easier to load onto the reels and if you do it on the end that has the sticker where it was attached to the backing paper you don’t lose any of your images. You can also cheat and put two 120 rolls onto on Paterson reel, by feeing one on and then using a little bit of tape tack the end of one to the start of the other works a treat to get double the capacity I usually clip one roll feed it 90% in then using a small amount of electrical tape I take the end of that to the start of another which I have also clipped the start of. (the chemicals really don’t care about the tape I mark up my rolls of 135 with some and then leave it on for development to no ill effect and I get to keep track of my rolls easier and the Paterson reels are designed to take 220 film so there really is enough space for both) I did nearly 200 rolls this way at the start of the lockdown last year and it worked a treat and anything that went wrong was user error that was C-41, E6 and B+W.

I got frustrated with Patterson reels and switched to Hewes reels in stainless steel tanks. Now I'm frustrated in other ways but, on the whole, I prefer the SS tanks and Hewes reels. I bought a couple of Rondinax tanks (35 and 120 versions) on which the Lab Box is based. They use less chemical, but it was a brief flirtation and I quickly returned to my SS tanks. Might be worth considering for a holiday with Diafine as temperature control isn't so much of a thing so you could quickly develop, dry overnight, slip into neg sleeves, and leave in the morning taking your three bottles of chemicals, Rondinax, length of string, pegs, and negatives with you.

Funny, entertaining, and informative. Thank you 💖

There’s a third option. Stainless steel tanks. A little harder to load, but not an issue with practice. I have a smaller tank that can do 2 35mm rolls, or one 120 roll, and a bigger tank that can do 4 35mm rolls, or 2 120. Got both, 6 35mm reels, and 1 120 reel, for a whopping $20. Unfortunately, it doesn’t do sheet film. I have to do that in trays.

Thanks for the video! I just ordered a second hand lab box for $100. I’m completely new to developing and I don’t shoot a ton. So this video help me make the decision that the lab box was for me. And it’s only $40 different from the standard Patterson tank. I think I’m going to start with developing black and white first. Color kinda intimidating for me but I will get there one day. Thanks again!

When closing the Paterson tank I put my thumb on the top of the lid and press it in so that it forms a vacuum seal, haven’t had a problem with leaking since I started doing it.

I have a pair of Patterson tanks with the AP reels (far easier to load than the original reels) and like them for when I have accumulated several rolls to develop. Two rolls in each, develop one pair and as soon as I am finished I can do the second pair, no waiting for one tank/reel set to dry, etc... But, when I am out and just shot a single roll the Lab Box is quick and easy, no darkroom, no changing bag needed. Just a quick one and done system. I do only use it for 35mm and save 120 for the Patterson setup.

I have both, though I may sell the 35mm module. With 35mm I will typically have more than 1 or 2 rolls, so the Patterson makes sense. Plus you can start them off before you put them in the dark bag which makes it nice and easy. However for 120, I normally just have the 1 roll, I find with the backing tape it's much more annoying trying to load it in the dark bag, so I use the lab box. Happy with both.

HI Caleb. One more con for the lab box is that it does not work with PET based emulsions - they will slip off the little clasp when loading. I think they list the ones that it affects on their site, so if you shoot any of these, then be aware of that. I have both the lab-box and the patterson system (I actually like the steel reels because it uses less chems) - there is a 'hack' for the patterson where you can slide a stip of plastic through one of the fin section gaps to line up the start of the reels for threading, then you pull out the strip right before you start to crank to load --it really helps with 120 film.

I believe the ap reels are the easiest to load. The tabs are really large and especially help with loading 120 film. They fit in the Paterson system as well as their own tanks. I purchased a darkroom kit that came with a Paterson tank and curiously two different sets of reels. I later learned that the ap ones were a different brand. I believe them to be superior. Adorama has them.

Thank you, i found a a few old rolls of film i want to develop. But after watching a few review and also watching yours. Now i want to get deeper into shooting and developing. Make it seem fun taking picture again instead of with a phone. Wow Ty again... I get Lab box then work my way up... dark bag will take some learning.

With the Paterson it really starts winning when you develop two or three rolls simultaneously. Chemicals become much less of a problem because you're using them much more efficiently. Also, get a hose adaptor for your tap. That way you can just put it straight into the top of the developing tank and rinse your film/s while doing something else. You just leave it in the sink to do its thing. I considered the Lab Box but it's too expensive and there are similar alternatives that don't cost as much.

I've had the exact same issue with the Lab Box where sometimes the roll doesn't spool! For no reason at all!! Frustrates me so goddang much. I think I've probably tried to develop at least 50 rolls, and around 15 of them didn't work out. Some were definitely because I messed up a step, but a good chunk were just unavoidable. I also found there are a bunch of little things that aren't outlined well (or at all) in their instructions. I'm currently saving up to swap over to Paterson, I can't wait. It's gonna be tough too, but I would much rather just mess up a bunch from re-learning a system (from my own lack of experience) than by the random luck aspect of Lab box (which would be out of my control). Love the video! Keep killin' it

good video, have another use for the lab box, for film and chemistry testing, aka you can see if you like a film or developer combo by using a test roll, and this box handles it easily, esp. while learning about the chemistry, I have Autism, so taking some "thought' out of the equation will help, and this allows you to 'concentrate' on the mixing, ratios, which chemical goes in next, esp. if it is another process (not C-41), but even doing a slide film (colour Transparency)- makes sure the right stuff is done to each roll, so if you have multiple types of film, you can process each, singly without accidentally cross-processing a roll as with a paterson you could forget what films are in each spool.

I'm glad to discover I am not the only person who took 30 minutes the first time they tried spooling a roll onto a Paterson reel. It gets better with time but... it's still the scariest part of development for me

You are right on the lab box. I‘ve got myself one but I also think it‘s overpriced. I only shoot medium format and getting a roll on a spool in the dark felt like a nightmare to me. However I don‘t get it. Sometimes everything works just fine and sometimes the film curls up in the inside. Lab Box 2 should be two products. One to get the film on a spool and an additional product that you can fill with spools directly from product one.

This was a very good video I actually just ordered a Lab-Box (the cinestill pro kit) cause space is premium and I lack the dexterity for dark back usage

It took me hours to load my first roll of 120 into the Paterson. I ruined my first roll and a couple days ago my film was buckled inside the Paterson reel so that one also bought the farm. But now after years of developing I can load one roll of 120 in about a hour. I hate Paterson for 120 but it's all I have until my steel reel system arrives. Somebody needs to invent a better way.

I use the lab box for 35mm amd it makes it super easy for me since I don’t have a large backlog of film to develop. If I do I use my old Paterson or for 120. Lab box is just quicker for my developing style

I'm glad Lab Box was cost prohibitive or I would have bought into that system. Paterson tanks are much more affordable and easy to work with.

Excellent video very informative I have decided to use both just to try them out then see which I prefer. Alan in the UK.

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I'm a firm advocate of the Paterson tank for most things 35mm and 120 BUT, I use the SP445 for 4x5 because a: It uses less chemicals (clue is in the name) b; The MOD54 assembly has a nasty habit of letting go during developing, so you end up with part-developed sheets. Not good. Another thing is, you can pre-load 35mm into Paterson spools without losing frames if you take care. I'm as clumsy as f*ck, but after lots of practice, even I can load 120 into a reel in about a minute, but I do have a dark space to do it in..

Thanks. Super straight forward - in a crazy sort of way. I'm retired and shooting film again is on my bucket list, but the LabBox has too many gotchas. As a kid I wound film in the dark, dang it, I can do it again. (New subscriber - and I have NO IDEA what else you offer. I'll wait.)

My wife happened to glance over my shoulder at around 1:47 to see what I was watching. We're now sleeping in separate beds and I've been reduced to 'developing' myself...

Hey! You know you can load 2 rolls of 120 into a single plastic reel. Either push the first roll in all the way or tape the rolls together and bang, you just doubled your output. Have not found any need to increase time as long as you have enough developer, i.e. don't over dilute. I've done 4 rolls on 2 reels in one tank, but scared to try 6 on 3. You might be crazy enough to try...

Ok. What about surge marks from the over turn of the film in the lab box. Where have the stainless-steel reals gone to? I after 10yrs of lab and studio environment, was hired by my interviewer on the spot. The next morning my first day, I was sent to one of the top section leaders. After she talked to me for a bit, it was time to roll 2 120 rolls in the dark to develope. She gave me the new kinda rollers. The plastic. I saw several of the steel tanks and rollers shelved. Went over and picked 2 and 1 tank. All she did was smile. The rolls were developed and taped together and printed onto 2500 ft. 11inch rolls. Or 2500ft 20inch rolls.

Just started with the bag and a patterson 2 reel, it has been most fun! Great comparison

Great amusing video that's helped me decide perhaps against the Lab Box. I used the Paterson years ago and remember the faff of loading the film but........

Per the comment about the reels needing to be dry. I know it wasn't covered here, but metal reels can be loaded wet. I find the plastic style reels need to be bone dry to load without screwing up your film. I'll even use a hair dryer on mine to make extra sure they don't have any moisture. Even moist hands in a changing tent/bag can be enough to screw up the loading process. I've yet to see anyone do a comparison about development results between plastic vs metal reels. Might do an experiment soon to see if there's a difference

Man you’re just so crazy 😂😂😂 subscribed

You’re the Steve Terreberry of photography. Which I respect and appreciate.

With the Paterson, there is no real fiddling for me anymore, as I just get my 35mm film started outside the dark bag. Just behind the ball bearing, as this still is within the film that is exposed by loading in the camera anyways, so no images lost, in my experience there is still two frames of space at least til the start of the actual shot frames. Made my experience with developing so much easier and more enjoyable, as the process in the dark bag is really easy once started. Anyone else does this?

I have a Lab Box, and recently I found out the hard way that it doesn’t take every brand of 120 film out there. Ars-Imago has a list on their website of PET films which are not compatible with the 120 module. I tried loading a roll of Holga 400 into the 120 module and the film got bunched up. I ended up losing half the roll! Not cool! I finally ordered a Paterson tank and it’ll be here tomorrow.

but wait, theres more: with the paterson 3-roll tank you can also install a "MOD-54" spool for 4x5" negative sheets, so is usefull for this film as well.

You showed a shot of putting empty paterson reels in the dark bag. Don't bother with that! You can go ahead and put the leader into the reel and past the ball bearings in the light, without fogging the first frame. Then it's way easier in the dark from there. Also, the big large format holder thing I find is largely unnecessary. You can also just curl the film into a loose roll and hold it with rubber bands or hair ties, emulsion in, and then toss a bunch of em into the tank. Can it scratch a tiny bit sometimes? Yes, although it's a lot harder to scratch the base back than the smulsion. The holder also leaves holder marks a lot of the time, and takes way longer

Very helpful! I’ve been debating between these systems, so this additional info is great!

such a really good video dude! good pros and cons, very helpful!

Busting those moves, I didn't realise you moonlighted as the Andrew Fearn alter ego in the Sleaford Mods!

Thanks for this. Was debating, and it seems like the lab box is more trouble than it's compared to price.

I have been turned off developing for awhile because of the dark bag thing. I have all the shit I just have to suck it up and do it. Great video man! Would you do a video on scanning? If you have and I just didnt find it yet....I'm just not properly caffeinated. Cheers man!

It’s anecdotal but I do two 120 films per reel, you can just tape them together and it works great. Also, it’s pretty easy to develop two tanks at a time so in my case eight 120 reels at a time just twiddling the sticks with both hands.

This was super helpful! I think Paterson tank might be the way to go.

Great video, and fuck you're funny! One con of the lab box id mention, reels can only be spooled if the film leader is out, which requires either a camera that has an option on auto rewind to leave the leader out, or lots of practice to know when the leader detaches from the take up spool on your camera (which risks you being wrong and exposing the film). In a dark bag, i just brute force the canister open with a bottle opener so its never an issue with the paterson tank!

I do the b&w dev at a local lab. I use 2 paterson 8 reel tanks per batch. I can do 16 rolls very quickly. I have tried metal reels and JOBO...the paterson system is the easiest and most trustworthy imo

I shoot more pix with my phone than anything else. I also shoot a lot on my Canon SL2 DSLR. When I do get to use my Canon Rebel G 35mm film camera...I dev with my LabBox. I don't get too serious with the film so when I ruin some I most likely already got a digital pic of the same subject. I am about to dive into black and white and caffenol. That is going to be fun. I think the LabBox is going to help keep everything even and constant. (we'll see LOL).

Hi Caleb. Would you be okay, if I would use a 2-3 Second clip of this video to explain something in an upcomming video I make? I'll of course mark the corresponding clips as yours in the video!

Can I tell you a trick? You can put 2 120 rolls on those Patterson reels. They are meant to develop 220, which is twice the length of 120. So, when you get to the end of the first 120 roll, just… load another one on that reel!

What system uses the least chemicals, I really want to conserve chemicals to get the most out of a E6 kit and 35mm

Another great video.

It is hard to get 120 onto reels. 35 is a piece of cake, once you work out that you can get the film started on the reel in the light. But 120... is there an easy way of loading 120 onto an Adam Driver reel? Also, this 'relationship' thing. We need to talk.

I have used paterson tanks since the 70s, I bought a lab box to try, but have yet to use it ... gonna try soon, but it may be a one or two time use ... my biggest problem with the Patterson is that for some reason I have many reels that are a bitch to load ... they seem to have a shelf life!!!

plastic 'like my head' got me lol

does developing film by yourself with one of these kits achieve the same quality as developing in a lab?

Caleb i was planning to do this next year! Don't encourage me!!!

Where did you get this changing bag?

Loooove ittttttt

Hey where did you get that 120 reel with the extra large plastic rims?

Can you please provide links for us noobs that don’t know where to find these? 🤔

Hey Dadd- I mean Caleb, can you give me the dirty on the Mod 54? I have one myself, but friends have told me horror stories about the little feet leaving undeveloped spots on the edges and sheets from the middle jumping to the next spot up. Have you had any bad experiences with it?

The lab box can not be used with 120 polyester based films such as Foma 120. I was in NYC a few years back for the PhotoPlus Conference and the Rep for LabBox ruined my roll of 120 Foma 400 he was demonstrating with. It bunched up in the roll space like yours. Then he says "oh you cant used Polyester based films with LabBox sorry" and he gave me like 10 rolls of ilford XP2. LOL

I didn't pay NEARLY that much for any of my paterson tanks.

Thanks for the great video! You did mention about developing color negatives but you didn't say how it would be for lab-box -- try water bath that thing and I bet you will regret it... Anyway, agree with your conclusion: lab-box is for those casual photographers who only shoots B&W (or color too if they happen to live in somewhere with a constant temperature of 37.8C/100F...), and Paterson is for more serious photographers (then here's the funny thing - why would someone spend so much money for such a casual cause? I knew I was stupid...). Also, although getting film on the reel may be a bit harder with the Paterson, at least you have the chance to check (touch, feel, etc) the results. My first experience took me 20+ minutes and some scratches / torne on the side of the film but I made sure it was spooled propertly. With lab-box, you really have to rely on your luck and you will not want to trust any important rolls to it. Last thing, I found the crank was helpful but can't they find a way to make sure the base doesn't rotate when the crank is turning? That at least makes it feel 50% less useful than it should have been!

Jobo Tanks are way better than Paterson Tanks. The Spool is way better for 120 than on the Peterson Tanks. Yeah they are a bit more expensive!

SHAKE IT LIKE A PATERSON

this is an informative video .Shame about all the silliness.

Nice BLVD hat!

Develloping aint that hard I went straight to patterson and it's aight

I find the labbox fiddly. I have always used patterson, jobo, or metal reels. I generally use patterson now because easier and cheaper. The labbox is overpriced and doesn't save anything but a dark bag. My view having developed film for 50 years.

I agitate my tank by shaking it like a pair of maracas.

Man this is to opposite of Jason's 😂

Buy a cheap second hand Agfa Rondinox tank, that is the original "lab box".

Do not Shake the Polaroids.....

NEVER! Never, buy lab-box i can't count 120 rolls i destroyed using this .

Lab-Box is not as innovative a product as the maker claims. It's almost 100% identical to the Agfa Rondinax which was invented in the 1930s. Yes, Lab-Box does make some minor modifications from the Agfa Rondinax, but essentially they are the same machine. I've no problem with Ars-imago copying the Agfa Rondinax, but the problem for me is they make it sounds like they are the brilliant genius who have come up with the design and they make no mention of the Agfa Rondinax of which they copy.

Dude good video. But you have to ditch the noises and funky mannerism. It…just makes it annoying over time. No disrespect Just saying…

Real men only use stainless steel. Are you a real man??? lol

The three-reel tank is the sweet spot: you can get reels for 35mm, 120/220, 4x5, 5x7 or 8x10 film. Of course, you can be a real man/woman and develop your sheet film in trays but that isn't for everyone. Snowflake. ;)

The Lab Box is over priced and horrendously unreliable. Great idea and great that it uses so little chemistry. But the Paterson tank is far far far superior and reliable. I have had one problem with my Paterson tank and reels, versus virtually every roll in the lab box.

Dude please leave film alone and stick to digital photography.. you don't get it.