Watching Bonds bat, was like watching Picasso paint.

I feel like if bonds got more recognition before 1998 then people would see he was a hall of famer before he felt like the spotlight was on people with PEDS

You guys really pick the most handsome guests

Prior to 1999, Bonds had more SB than HRs and was the only member of the 400/400 club. Absolutely unreal. Without steroids he likely would have been in the 500/500 clubs still. +3 MVPs and 8 GGs. I grew up only seeing steroid Bonds. He deserves to be in the HoF and likely still deserves strong criticism. Unbelievable what he was before 1999.

I believe I can share a little insight into the morality argument/HoF argument, and since it’s going to be the next discussion in the series, I feel I should share a personal anecdote regarding Barry Bonds. In elementary and middle school, Bonds’s daughter went to a school that was our rival in the district. Our schools would play each other constantly, and over time I came to befriend many kids at the school. Sometimes it would be a baseball game, sometimes football, sometimes a track meet. Their school’s campus had all the fields in close proximity, so they could host all the sports at once. I would often see the girls soccer team playing at the same time, and Barry’s daughter was on the team. Barry was always there, cheering her on, chatting with other parents; being a normal dude. I didn’t get the chance to talk to him until I was competing in a track meet held at their school. Barry’s daughter was competing, so naturally, Barry was there to support her. Being a Dodger fan, I had to meet the man who had terrorized the team I love. He was very nice and soft-spoken. He didn’t mind talking baseball, and smiled as I recounted the many times he had devastated my beloved Dodgers bullpen. I didn’t get a chance to talk to him again, but I’m reminded of that interaction every time an athlete is messing up publicly. As much as we like to speculate, we don’t really know what these athletes are going through. Even among professional athletes, only so many become great, and many don’t understand what that feels like. I say this not to condone who Bonds was when he played, nor shut down arguments of those, like myself, who are not one of the great all-time athletes; But to try and understand his issues and their correlation to his athletic career. He was a jerk to the media and to his teammates. He did have domestic abuse allegations. I cannot excuse that. But to close the book there is unfair to Barry Bonds. Bonds had a long and successful career before he ever touched steroids. And during one of his best seasons, he felt slighted that Sosa and McGuire were taking his spotlight because they were using PEDs. I think the seriousness with which Barry took this is often understated. He was clearly obsessed with greatness, and to be great you must be recognized as such. He knew that if he took steroids nobody could touch him. So can we blame the man for wanting recognition? For daring to be great? Beneath the achievements and the steroids and the legend is just a man. Baseball is a stressful sport. It’s largely a mind game. Imagine being the best baseball player ever and how stressful that would be. And you’re on steroids that mess with your hormones putting stress on your mind and your body. Even before the drugs, he wasn’t a nice guy to his Pirates or Giants teammates. He was always trying to prove that he was the best, even back then. It’s no wonder he garnered the reputation he did. But time passes, the world changes, and people change as their world does. I don’t believe the Barry I met at the track meet was the same man he was when he played. He was still Barry Bonds, but he was just another dad at the track meet. Even Mike Tyson, who did so much and fell so far, has rehabilitated himself and his image. Barry Bonds hasn’t stepped back into the spotlight, nor does he need to. But I know he would reappear to accept a Hall of Fame induction. As baseball fans, we are owed closure on that era of baseball. It’s an era many fans who love baseball today credit for exposing them to the sport. An era that is incomplete without its greatest player. Personally, I would love his first public appearance since his retirement to be a HoF acceptance speech, because I believe he has changed, and he just needs a chance to show it. A chance to ask for forgiveness. Everyone deserves that.

Love the productive conversations

When a player hits 60+ home runs three times and doesn’t lead the league, (Sosa) you know it’s a league wide issue and not just on a few guys. It’s an era, like the dead ball era, and should not reflect on one man and his records.

It was more than 15%. Even my college team at the time maybe had 15% juicing. Steroids weren't as taboo compared to nowadays - people on my teams took all kinds of stuff if they thought it helped - steroids, nicotine, adderall, long-haul trucker pills, whatever. It really was a different mindset across the board - think Lance Armstrong

I love your videos they keep me going on some tough days so thank you

Hank Aaron took speed and said the baseballs looked like beach balls

It might be because I’m a little older, but it was a bit of deal back then before the rules. It made it to the news because it was not the accepted norm. There’s a reason why Canseco was doing it in the bathroom stalls. That’s why the book he released was a big deal. There were no rules against it but it wasn’t ok

MA I MADE IT

15% does not even out the odds. Imagine putting the All Star Teams into the AAA league. Not all on one team, they're spread around baseball. They're gonna put up some rediculous numbers. Sometimes they'll face each other and it will be fair... but 85% of the time, they're facing people in a different league... literally. That's going to SERIOUSLY impact your numbers.

He still is my favorite player right behind him is Junior. This is coming from a nearly 45 year old white dude. I was blessed to be able to witness 676 at Camden Yard. I have been around baseball since I was old enough to play and I have never heard a baseball hit harder. My closest memory is when I saw and heard Andrew Jones hit a line drive into the parking lot when he was with the AAA team for Atlanta.

Loving this series! I've been a Giants fan since the mid nineties when I was a kid. Always loved Barry Bonds even after the steroids accusations. You just had to be there to experience his greatness and what he contributed. I went to a Giants game in 2007 and sat in left field. I got to experience the taunting that he got from the people in the stands. At one point he took a knee on the field and people screamed "Whats wrong Barry is your head weighing you down?" I'll never forget that part. It was really sad to see. Looking forward to the final episode

All positive tests on BB were retroactive. I wonder why? If they had real positive tests Barry would have NEVER been allowed to break the HR record years later. He would have been suspended in a split second. Even after MLB started testing (2003) for steroids Barry was still wining MVPs and crushing Ruth stats. He had more HRs than Strike outs after testing was instituted!!! He still had an OPS of over 1000 on one leg in his 40s. Give this man his due.

While it is true the 2001-2004 Barry Bonds wouldn't happen without steroids, could you imagine what kind of season he would've had in those years without steroids? He'd have more well-rounded seasons. He wouldn't have ended as the home run king, but I think he'd have hall of fame numbers without the steroids. Also, consider that he was blackballed because of the steroids and could've played at least one more season if given the chance to retire on his own terms.

So I grew up during the “steroid” era of baseball, and I’m a Dodger fan at that. I think the statistic of 15% of the MLB was juicing is a severe understatement. I would make the argument that everyone in Major League Baseball was juicing.

Baseballs greatest player, Of all time, any era.

1 nitpick: you guys keep incorrectly saying Bonds did steroids, when what he actually took was HGH. Steroids were banned in 91, HGH was banned in 2011, so he technically never cheated even though others actually did. But regardless of legality, he knew he was doing something shady. We also need to consider the fact that “greenies” were also running rampant during this time. It’s not just the guys with the HRs that cheated, but also the SS and CF who can read where the ball is going off the bat much faster.

Really enjoying this series guys

As a Dallas local, I love to listen to Mike Bacsik's radio show, the K&C Masterpiece. He is hilarious and would love to see him on here (I'm sure yall have tried). But he is pretty open to talking about the at bat. Either way, love the podcast.

That man is the best hitter ever...

Willie Mays , Barry’s god father, has quite amazing things to share about Barry ! A lot of people were using PEDs they all weren’t hitting 70 + HR’s / yr Barry was amazing his ability to strike a baseball ⚾️ was so fast like a Muhammad Ali fast punch 🥊. Everyone wanted to see Barry play - I’ve lived through all the Stargell , Aaron , Griffey jr eras & no one was like Barry ! Jose Canseco tried to get an edge something baseball wasn’t discouraging it’s all about selling tickets when a game is played for money 💰 Fans miss Barry Bonds - that’s for sure - explosive player ! Who knows re: PEDs was it a little lotion 🧴 he rubbed on as even race horses 🏇 if caught w/ trainers rubbing ointment on their legs could be considered PEDs & trainers suspended !

Keep preaching the words youngings. Do a video on Roger Clemens. He was equally awesome and now hated as much as Bonds. Younger people should know how great he was as well.

The solution to the steroid debate is simple. We need two Hall of Fames. One Hall of Fame for the best players of all time- the Hall of Fame. And then the Natty Hall of Fame.

Every Sunday the past 4 weeks (Monday in this case) I've said "oh shit another hour long dope ass docuseries" thanks guys keep up the great work I will say it again PLEASE DO THE NEXT SUPER DOC ON PETE ROSE

Holy hell, FINALLY, somebody brings up amphetamines when describing the era before steroids

I would like to see a video on the 2002 angels

the best hitters in baseball history are 1a barry bonds & 1b ichiro suzuki

40:51 GTA IV pause menu music nice touch

Bonds did steroids for what…a decade? And only beat Aaron by 7 homers. And Hank still has the total bases and RBI records. Hank’s still on top for me.

Bonds was so feared, he was walked when the bases was loaded BEFORE steroids.

"Astronomically better than everyone else, as he was." That's kind of the best argument for Barry being the GOAT. If everyone else was taking steroids, would they have approached Barry's level? Nope. How do we know? Because we can compare the performance of players we know took steroids to Barry's performance (allegedly) on steroids. They don't come close.

Wild that was 16 years ago.

Does Hank Aaron hit 755 without greenies? I don’t say that besmirch him but he and players of that era skate on PEDs bc most of the people discussing them weren’t around for Aaron’s era and/or downplay the impact greenies.

The fact that the commissioner who oversaw the steroid era got into the hall and none of these players can get in is total bs, if anyone shouldn’t be in it’s him because he enabled it, don’t blame the players blame the game

This feels like the opposite yet similar in some ways to Dave Stieb bc Stieb was the best pitcher over a very long period of time and never won a Cy Young or made the HoF bc of his win loss record and didn’t even pitch until 19 I believe but won a WS while BB won’t make the HoF even though he won everything but the WS and was always recognized as a the best hitter and arguably fielder

“I’m uhhh Barry Dillon”

I can’t believe anyone would think hank Aaron wasn’t a five tool player!! I promise he was the king of that title. Thank u guys for the video

Greatest slugger of all time!

Are you doing a Bonds series or something? What’s up with so many Barry videos lol

If you juiced and hit .250 with 17 HRs, no one thought anything of it. But if you were good at baseball and became better because of PEDS then it was an issue. The amount of guys that juiced that made no impact are countless, including pitchers Bonds faced during his 4 year run.

33:30 - Bonds did NOT homer in his first at bat back (2005), I watched it live on TV. He hit a deep fly ball to the top of the wall, where there was fan interference (reaching over the wall) so it was a ground rule double. The most notable thing about that game is his helmet seemed like it was too small lol. That being said, bonds was still raking pretty well in 2005.. 14 games, 5 home runs.. thats still 50 over the course of a season. I haven't yet finished the video so idk what you're going to say about 06/07, but he turns into jekyll and hyde those seasons. Basically every other month raking like 01-04 bonds (1.200+OPS), and the other months being very pedestrian with like a .800 OPS. He did seem to be improving again in 2007 though, shame he wasn't able to keep playing since no one wanted to deal with the media circus surrounding him.

I think it's clear that PEDs are a much more significant advantage for a batter than for a pitcher. The pitchers of today throw harder and with more spin than the pitchers at any point during the steroid era, while the hitters of today can't approach the homerun totals of that same era. It's as if hitters from today were batting against pitchers from the 80s, it can't be fairly compared. The hitters of the steroid era were so far ahead in the "arms race" compared to any other era that any comparison needs to be heavily weighted.

I’m glad the needle has moved a bit towards Bonds but there should be an asterisk

This man has never tested positive ever...

The thing is, there’s been guys that have juiced and couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a boat. Steroids don’t matter if you can’t see the ball or sit on a pitch. Barry saw the zone better than anybody in history.

i say let em take whatever peds they want cause it made the game more exciting ... sosa v. big mac, with junior griffey eve in the race early on, that was one of the most fun baseball summers ever ... who doesnt love to.see big mac crush 500ft home runs or bonds hit splash hits into mccovey cove, so yeah, ppl have been imbibing substances as long as there have been ppl, who cares ... bonds should be in the hof even tho he was an ass, he crushed.

At 11:30 they both seem to, pretty decisively, agree that 1986, 1987, and 1988 Barry Bonds was better than Hank Aaron. Am I mishearing this?

Can one of you generate home runs per year before steroids average, then the steroid years add up those average home runs. Then determine average ABs/ HR and take his walks and all the times he was pitched around to add more HRs to the total so we can attempt to determine how many home runs he would’ve finished with potentially? Also not sure if you can factor in age degeneration? I’ve always wondered this

I feel like it was higher than 15%

Sammy Sosa has a light association with steroids like I have a light association with eating chocolate donuts. Sammy Sosa was a base stealing 180 pounder until 1998. You young folks need to spend some time busting packs and memorizing the back of baseball cards for a couple decades if you want to talk sports.

Bonds was him if not for taking steroids

When you talk about a percentage of the league using steroids, it becomes much more likely that journeymen and replacement players were those using steroids. The reason for this is that at the top of the sport the bank roll of the players is secure, but if you are in triple/double A with a small shot to make it to the bigs the incentives for cheating being life changing money change the likelihood drastically

I think the statistics argument is completely in bad faith since you fail to mention that context mattering should require an asterisk for say dead ball era pitching records or pre-integration numbers. These records would also require additional context similar to Bonds', but only Bonds' gets the asterisk?? Seems like a really bad faith argument.

9:00 don't feel ashamed or like you are bragging when you state your credentials. That's not bragging. You're stating a fact bro. You went over 6 years of college to study stats and how they relate. That's no issue. You're just saying hey these are my credentials and these are how I approach things. I have zero credentials and I still tell people how I approach things. Keep up the great work. Love this channel!

One thing I disagree with is saying that without steroids, Bonds wouldn’t have come close to the HR record. While I do agree with you that Bonds never hits 70+ HR or have an OPS+ of 230, you’re forgetting that his career ended because he was basically black listed by MLB. Without the steroid accusations he probably plays 5 more years than he did at least. This is assuming he stayed healthy like he did in real life. So yes while he hits less HRs from 2000-2007, he has an additional 5-6 years to catch that mark. So while he might not break Aaron’s record, I still believe he comes close at least.

The GOAT

I came to the same conclusion, by juicing bonds put himself in the gods of baseball categorie, but without the juice he doesn't belong there.

It's also funny that Barry Bonds gets all this hate and questions about his legitimacy, when at the same time. A same age Randy Johnson was putting up career numbers in what should have been his twilight and no one bats an eye

Just an fyi, peds are still a major aspect of powerlifting culture. The top guys still are. Don’t let the drug testing associations fool you.

I wonder how all those guys hit so many home runs from the mid 90s to the mid 2000s? I wonder how they did it? I wonder how they did it? I wonder. I wonder how all of a sudden after decades and decades people started breaking Roger Maris' home run record? Now how did this happen? I have nothing against steroids in baseball..It should be legal I suppose..But there should be seperate record books for them. And seperate Hall Of Fames for them..Me and my friends partied our asses off in the 70s, 80s, and 90s on all sorts of drugs. But we aways respected baseball players because they didn't have to do drugs to be cool like rock stars did. But that's just me..I may be wrong about all this. frankny65yroldwhitekid rockfan

By the way hank Aaron is one of the original and by far the KING of FIVE TOOL PLAYER

The greatest record Bonds has is the McCovey Cove splashes

One argument that is never brought up is the quality of the PED’s. We use a blanket word but there are many out there. 2 ppl can be popped for PED’s but the effect on the game can be effected by what exactly they are taking and my guess is the richer guys can afford better stuff. So even if the whole league took steroids, there are still levels to that as some still have an advantage by proxy of the best chemicals and advisors.

No shot only 15% of the league was on something in that era. It's 25% minimum.

Ruth 💪 .342

What report???

We could argue all of the modern day evolution of players, rehab and etc to say that players like mays and Aaron wouldn’t have been as good in this era. Not saying that is true, but the point is that it’s hard to compare at all. Also, it’s hard to convince me that the players of the past wouldn’t use these substances if they knew about them. Frankly, players of the 70s could have been on dbol or test. Not saying that they were, but it’s possible. Bonds is king, idc what he injected. The league juiced the balls. Juice the players!

This vendetta of keeping these guys out of the Hall of Fame is insane. How can you take this sport seriously if your best players aren’t in the Hall of Fame. NFL hall of fame has literal murders in it 🤷‍♂️ so yea MLB needs to fix this ASAP.

Ruth Ab per hr is 2nd behind McGwire and bonds is 4th

I endorse steroids in baseball.

Why it never mentioned that Hank Aaron admitted using amphetamines in his book? Where is the asterisk?

You gonna note the greenies that Aaron was on? You gonna note that Ruth was willing to take anything that enhanced his performance (i.e. goat sperm)? You’re stating that your data is skewed because of steroids; baseballs data will always be skewed whether it’s due to competition or even the era of the game. A power hitter in 1923, 2023 & 2123 will all have vastly different stats, even though they filled a similar role in their time.

Baseball expansion along with smaller ballparks and rumored "juiced baseballs" contributed also to records broken in this era. Including both pitchers and hitters. The Hall of Fame has lost its appeal and eliteness since banning Pete Rose.

shouldve been a first ballot HoF but the writers threw a hissy fit for 10 years while fawning over selig who let it happen because he and the owners destroyed the MLB with the lockouts.

I love the series and really don’t care about steroids, I mean who cares? I just want to be entertained, and players can do whatever the hell they want to their bodies.

I believe greenies were amphetamines, correct? Not sure how much that helps in hitting home runs. Maybe it helps get you through the game? Seems like it would break down your body enough to hurt longevity more than help though.

I'm a Dodgers fan...

If Barry Bonds was more likable, do you think he gets into the HOF???

I mean I get it's a bit disingenuous when the MLB wasn't really even testing or looking for these substances until around the time he had already started breaking records, but they were banned since 91. so this idea that you can't fault him because it was an era before it was commonly known to be wrong is false. He did it knowing they were banned. And that goes for anyone else who used it.

“During the trial, government evidence shows that Bonds had received steroids from Anderson in the period prior to the positive drug test in November 2000, and this evidence leads to the conclusion that Anderson gave Bonds steroids which The reason was his test positive in November 2000,” the U.S. Attorney Joseph Rusoniello wrote. The filing twice mentioned a failed drug test in 2001, as well as a failed test in 2000, but prosecutors later said there was only one failed test in 2000. “It’s a typo. We’ll file a corrected copy tomorrow,” said Josh Eaton, a spokesman for Rasoniello. “Nothing nefarious is happening here.”

10:00 going after Bonds and not Selig for steroids has racist tones, Barry led the NL in SLG% with 52SB while winning Gold Glove in '90... Nolan Ryan had an odd uptick in K's in his late 30s AND worked with known steroid user Tom House AND never gets mentioned with steroids... 62 round draft pick Mike Piazza is in the HOF for hitting cartoon like bombs while catching full time... you really want an asterisk by Bonds??? fax!!!

Ruth has highest slugging percentage

Did you count the hall of famers who took peds

That man is the best hitter ever... Deal with it...

Joe young

I just feel like we kind of give steroids too much credit, or at least overlook a lot of other developments that enhance performance. New equipment, better training methods, advancements in medical science, faster and more comfortable travel, etc... all make a huge difference. For example: Mickey Mantle tore his ACL his rookie season, and it was never repaired because that wasn't even a thing yet. He hit over 500 homeruns, and was a solid fielder, all on a blown out knee.

Guilty by association

Have you looked at Hank Arron’s stats? First he had a way better start to a career than bonds, but he also one a few gold gloves and stole over 30 in a season. Not to the degree of bonds’ gold gloves and SB’s, but not obvious at all at the start of the career

Didn’t think I’d see USAPL mentioned in a baseball video. Shout out to Robbie 🫡

Never connected

Bonds is the king, he should be in the Hall of Fame, and there should be no asterisks. I also think everyone should be able to take whatever they want. I don't see a difference between a PED and someone a better diet than the next guy. Both are just a bunch of chemicals you put in your body. If Bonds only ate twinkies for every meal, he would not have the stats he does.

I'm not a Bonds guy, but I've been pleasantly enjoying this series you've put on talking about the history of Bonds as a player, and everything else that comes with it. A fascinating little observation that I want to point out is the story of Mike Bolsinger. He was a pitcher, not very good, but played in the majors for a few seasons before leaving baseball in 2017. His final game was against the Astros when he could retire nobody and was DFA'd later in the season. Bolsinger had potential to return, but his performance against the Astros was so bad that he never came back. I bring this up because the 2017 Astros likely ended a lot of pitching careers before they could start. How do you think Mike Bolsinger felt when he found out his career ended because a team couldn't play fair? How many young aspiring pitching careers did Bonds end before they could even begin because he decided not to play fair? I'm sure this will come up in the next video discussing the HoF candidacy, but I can imagine a lot of those players vehemently against it in addition to other things. Bonds' record is still impressive, steroids or not, because he still had to make contact with those baseballs, and for a guy that was regularly walked over a hundred times a season, he was able to stay involved in the game. However, Barry would NEVER break the record without PED's as I refuse to believe that any clean individual could hit 70+ home runs in their twilight years.

There’s an unstated presumption in all the talk about steroids in baseball, a presumption that’s quite laughable if you think about it, they presumption that in the past steroids were not in use by the top players. Pumping iron came out in 1977 and body builders had been taking anabolic steroids for quite some time by then, it seems foolish to think that people who would monetarily benefit from the use of such substances would forego just because it was the 70s or 80s. The fact is Barry Bonds could very well have been using steroids his entire career and it’s purely anecdotal conjecture that says because he was smaller that he wasn’t on the juice. Even Hank Aaron could have used steroids during his playing career, I’m not saying he did, but we simply don’t know, we are merely feigning outrage over the obvious cases of steroid usage that got caught or implicated

I do think it is worth bringing up how we weigh things because even today's clean athletes have far more advantages than old ones. Better bats and cleats, better training regimens, better facilities, better (legal) supplements to give that edge in every regard from nutrition to performance on the field. And like why are we cool with the likes of Gaylord Perry in the hall when he even admitted to doctoring baseballs? Are we cool to allow modern pitchers in the hall when so many used spidertack and still use whatever substances the league decides are legal (or just dont act on)? At some point all time records can get lost in the discussion of what players are/aren't allowed and what they have the other guys didn't. So yeah steroids were bad and cheating is bad, it disrupts the integrity of the game for sure but it also just is very unhealthy for players to have to do to compete. But ultimately I think theres room for nuance when talking legacy. Also there's almost an amusement factor to how much we prop up Bonds for his home record when the "most career homeruns as a pro" *world* record is Sadaharu Oh from the NPB.

Hitters and pictures both on it peds should be allowed I don't understand why not I could take all the shit in the world and I would never hit a baseball it's entertainment.

Bonds only hit 50hr+ once in career ruth did it 4 times

So what if he doesn't achieve the records without steroids? Using steroids didnt guarantee he would achieve that record to begin with. Theres a reason he's alone at the top even though so many others used steroids. Bonds is the greatest of all time and it ain't close.