Batta Fast Manjan #3 - Millennial vs Gen Z fans | T20 World Cup thoughts

Batta Fast Manjan #3 - Millennial vs Gen Z fans | T20 World Cup thoughts | #NZvPAK

Рет қаралды 4,844

6 ай бұрын

Two great cricket writers, Rameen (@rameenwhile) and Raiyan (@CricCritic2) join the show to discuss the two games from the New Zealand series, their thoughts on the T20 World Cup, and their take on how older cricket fans view the game.
Read this beautiful take by Rameen on Sundays and cricket: medium.com/@rameensalman/on-sundays-and-cricket-410620ed02d5
Here's a fascinating article by Raiyan on Pakistan's ideal T20 batter
medium.com/@raiyan201/pakistans-ideal-t20-batter-4554848a481

Пікірлер: 37

@aayanmughal 6 ай бұрын

Loved the episode. Didn't expect it to be sooo good, but it was!

@Cinema_Scope_ 6 ай бұрын

Firstly, bring back Usman. When he is not here, cricket literacy of the show plummets faster than Shaheen Afridi's speed. Or for your loyal viewers, you should add a disclaimer - These are kids, they still need to learn a lot, so, take their opinions with a pinch of salt. A. Asif - Asif is the pioneer of the wobble seam. He perfected the art way back late 2000s. Now, the world has learned it and the test batting averages since 2018 have gone down significantly especially on greener/bouncier pitches. Read Jarrod Kimber's article on Pace Playing Pandemic. Yes, Asif went hyperbolic on his statement about Babar. But in the recent Australia test series, Cummins proved him right. Right now, Cummins is the bowler who can execute the wobble seam the best, considering Anderson is already 45 something. Just watch Cummins spell to Babar in the 2nd Innings of Perth Test. He was continuously bowling wobble seam balls mixing it up with cross seam deliveries. Babar was continuously getting beaten and played around 15-16 dot balls from Cummins before finally nicking it off. Considering that Cummins is 10 Kmph faster, but Asif has more control on wobble seam, his statement doesn't seem as far fetched, especially with the new ball on a green wicket. B. Captaincy - Captaincy matters more in Test and ODI cricket, rather than T20s. Reason being, there are way more controllable variables that come into play in test and ODI cricket, from strategic complexity to adaptation, to long term/short term planning to player management, to mental toughness to setting the tone, manufacturing wickets out of nowhere by good field setting, matchups, etc. In 20 overs cricket, plans are more laid out the management before the match, and on-field decisions are more instinctive. C. Talent Development - Another thing that happens a lot in Pakistan cricket is talent stagnation. Blame it on players, blame it on management. I see Babar, who is technically the most sound Pakistani batter ever, (I haven't seen Hanif Md or Zaheer Abbas), playing more or less the same way in 2019 as he is now, whereas Kohli at the age of 35 still developing shots for his South Series Test Tour. Shaheen, when he came into the picture, was lot more lethal than he is now. People have figured Shaheen out, until unless he evolves and develops the swing swingers, cross seam, wobble seam, etc. , there won't be - "They can't play him" getting repeated again. At present, we have two left hand aggressive batters making their way into Int. Cricket - Saim Ayub and Jaiswal. 5 years down the line, it is highly likely, that Jaiswal will more skilled and talented than Saim Ayub (given that Jaiswal doesn't go down the path of drugs and debauchery as Prithvi Shaw did). D. Pakistan being a good T20 Side- Pakistan's batting has a lot of Tape ball Cricket influence. In Tape ball cricket, you learn to hit the ball as hard as you can. It's like aar-paar cricket. That influence trickles down to Pakistan National team as well. Maybe that explains the reason why Pakistani batters lack that good of 2nd and 3rd Gear of batting, i.e. Ability to take single singles/ placing the ball in the gap with soft hands/defensive Strokeplay. Technically correct and compete batsman will score runs in all conditions whereas Tullas have their limitations. Tullas can score runs on flatter pitches against relatively easier bowling attacks. In the current Pakistan team, I see only Babar and Abdullah Shafique as complete batters, and to some extent Shan, maybe Saim is an upcoming one. That probably explains the mercurial nature of Pakistani team and also the reason why they manufacture batting collapses every other day. If it happens once or twice or thrice, it's fine. But you see a pattern, like it's a time loop thing. Most of them are not technically equipped enough to go through that difficult spell. T20 Cricket thanks to commercialism offers flatter wickets. You only need 1 or 2 Proper batter, then tullas can take you through. It doesn't test your skills through and through, and you are done. That's why Pakistan is a good T20 side, if you remove Babar, you will be back to mercurial nature. He is the glue binding the batting together, providing stability. It's the job of U19 Coaches, NCA, high performance centers to work on the techniques of the scouted talents, so that when they enter International cricket, they are complete batters. E. World cup Predictions - Before the world cup, the kind of cricket Eng, NZ, Aus, SA, even Ind(with Rohit going berserk) were playing, I didn't think Pakistan had a chance. Once in a lifetime innings by Fakhar in a rain affected match abled them to finish 5th on the table, otherwise, they would have finished seventh. Also, every team comes extra prepared for the world cup. Also, India is more foreign condition to Pakistan than to the White Teams due to IPL.

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

Firstly, thanks for dismissing all of our's cricket literacy. This angry uncle comment is exactly why I asked these two to join the show. a) Raiyan said Asif was a good test bowler. In your lengthy diatribe, you mention his skill but not if he was suited to all formats, which is the claim that was made. b) the point on captains was that with the same core, expecting one person to make all the difference is unrealistic. I disagreed, but your comments don't exactly refute his point. c) Classic angry uncle example of ranting on something no one mentioned or would disagree with. Yes, players from far richer and stable boards tend to have better growth than those that come from cash-strapped, chaotic boards that keep changing their chairmen. d) Possibly the most out of touch comment is the one on tape ball. At this point, it should be obvious that power hitting is a skill, and a difficult skill that very few Pakistanis have. As white-ball cricket continues to see an explosion in runs scored, it requires burying your head in the sand to claim that 'proper' batting skills are all you need. "Tullas" are highly skilled players, and tape ball teaches many important skills that are relevant in white ball cricket. Indeed, Pakistan's side has multiple anchors who play closer to 'proper' cricket than it has players who can blast 6s, which is a big disadvantage. If you have read so far, then I would encourage you to be more patient and measured in your interactions. Claiming to know better and calling others cricket illiterate would work better if your own points weren't hopelessly outdated. And while I very much enjoyed and respected Rameen and Raiyan's input, I also remember that when I was young, there were very few people who gave me a chance, and lots of grumpy old uncles who felt no one young knows anything. Definitely not interested in repeating that toxic cycle.

@Cinema_Scope_ 6 ай бұрын

@@BattaFast @BattaFast Sorry I offended you and your guests, and I am 21 year old studying in UK, who has played some university level cricket, not some grumpy old outdated uncle. Some points are to the context of this podcast, some are just rants following the loss. And I don't think my points are hopelessly outdated as you claim. Sorry to Raiyan and Rameen. A. I have already mentioned that Asif's wobble ball skill will be best executed on greener/bouncier wickets. My Point B is a logically true statement, nothing to argue there. C. Yeah, maybe, I went too harsh on Player development thing, considering economics play a major role in that. D. I said Tullas won't score you runs in challenging conditions in Test Cricket, in long term, you need to invest on technically correct batters. I will take Sahibzada Farhan over Azam Khan even if his strike rate is lower. Point is Technically correct batters who can do power hitting are Invincibles. A batter who has got all 5 gears basically. Like SA keeps backing Markram and India keeps backing KL, just based on their prodigal talent, and it has started to yield results for them in last 2-3 years. d. continued -Yes, Mercurial nature of Pakistan team has its origins in Tape ball cricket. When Babar, Shafique, Shan are scoring runs, there is a feel of stability in the team. E. Point 5 is nothing to be argued on. F- Pitches in Pakistan have adversely affected our Batters technique as well. They have forgot how to adapt. Australia played really poorly this series. Smith and Marnus didn't score those big daddy hundreds, that's why, this defeat stinks. If England or would have visited them now, they would have been lost the series.

@Cinema_Scope_ 6 ай бұрын

@@BattaFast I expected you to read it through and through and not make your presumptions. Maybe my language was a bit harsh, but that's just rush of blood rant. Point D Continued - T20 cricket mindset of slogging can never make you a good test cricketer. That was the whole point. Even anchors which Pakistan have lack the 2nd and 3rd gear of batting to a certain degree. What Sourav Ganguly said to Shahid Hashmi in A Sports interview was absolutely correct. Your whole cricket gets better if your first class Cricket is better. That's the only long term solution. Excess of T20 cricket creates mediocrity. That T20 mindset of slogging will work only on flatter pitches. Look what happened to Baz ball in world cup. Though English batters are way more technically accomplished, got county cricket behind them. Recently, English Test match pitches have been way flatter. Your best bet, David Warner, who is very good cricketer, lacks that proper front play. So, his averages in 20s in India, England, New Zealand, Sri Lanka. Pakistan lost the world cup because Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Abdullah, Ifti lack that 2nd and third gear of batting, ie. ability to take singles and twos. They played a lot of dot balls on turning surfaces of Chennai and Kolkata against quality spinners of AFG, SA and ENG respectively. You can pin that back onto four things - Rambo making flatter pitches all around Pakistan, Too much of T20 cricket, influence of Tapeball cricket in Pakistan, the First class System and Player Development wing of Pakistan cricket.

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

I think you are quite mistaken in the assumption that Test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport, or something viable. Ignoring all the platitudes given towards test cricket, the reality is that focusing on it is no economically viable, and with the lack of a proper league/schedule, poorer countries can develop all the skill they like they won't be getting anything more than short series held sporadically. While there is no doubt that a balance is always necessary, I don't think you can become a power hitter just from having a solid technique. For players from working class backgrounds for whom international cricket offers the only escape from poverty, expecting them to focus on tests which don't guarantee anywhere the career or financial prospects of white ball cricket is a bit ridiculous.

@Cinema_Scope_ 6 ай бұрын

@@BattaFast Well Ashes is considered the pinnacle of cricket here in the UK. Generates a lot of profit as Cricket Australia and ECB have their cricket tourism package thing as business model. Well. UK, Aus and India considers test cricket as pinnacle but I get your point. Maybe we won't get to see a good Pakistan test team until PSL generates enough profit for PCB to put that excess money into First Class Cricket, also Pakistan's consumer economy is good enough to generate profits for an organized test match.

@eraj1540 6 ай бұрын

great episode! loved this! big fan!

@emanarbab6238 6 ай бұрын

This is such a fun episode!!

@Sarah_0112 6 ай бұрын

Lovely chat with Rameen and Raiyan. I enjoy their work, especially Rameen's writing quite a bit. I love the abba-like energy you brought, Ahmer on the millenial-genZ chat. Fellow millennial here btw who definitely goes "ajkal ke bachay!" sometimes when I read stuff on Twitter - but mainly coz of the badtameez tone in which some ppl engage. And I'm like, "Who is raising these kids?" 😳 And yes - yorker kerao. Bowl at the stumps. But Ahmer, wasim bhai's commentary sucks Allah ki kasm. I'll die on that hill. It was slightly embarrassing during the Aussie tour. Wo Boomer uncle energy latay hain poori ki poori.

@biker1715 6 ай бұрын

this is why we come to batta fast!!

@anon19964 6 ай бұрын

Loved this !

@captainfantastic2432 6 ай бұрын

Great episode

@abrahamabhishek4240 6 ай бұрын

Really liked the discussion on how much of a factor captaincy is. At the same time, I don't think this is a matter of perspective. There must be an objective truth out there ki afterall what functions are captains performing afterall (could be different in different teams, sure). So next episode mein please iska full and final answer bataa dein, badi mehrbaani hogi 🙏

@haziq.4227 6 ай бұрын

The thing about captaincy is that there is a captain, there are coaches, there is team management and there are many board persons like selectors, chairmain etc. who all have different opinions on how the team and system would be run. They all have to be on the same page for captaincy to be effective. And even if they are not on the same page, there should be an understanding on what way they are going forward. A captain can't do anything if he isn't getting the support from management and board. And not all critical thinkers of the game can be good captains, they have to be extremely street smart about handling players from different backgrounds and getting the output from them. You have to create an environment for that. A captain has to be extremely determined if he wants to influence others into buying his ideas. I don't know if I have answered your question but these are my two cents.

@Potterdanish 6 ай бұрын

Amazing

@MFarhanShaikh 6 ай бұрын

Loved the millennial and gen z chat. I wanted to share an opinion on the dosti vs gaali/sledging discussion towards the end. Are we seeing that trend because of franchise cricket? As in previously cricketers from different countries used to play against each other but now they get to be teammates as well as opponents.

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

agreed good point

@biker1715 6 ай бұрын

your best episode by far!!!!!!!!!!!!! amazing kids, wow!!!!!!!!! listening to so-called Pakistani commentators on local and international broadcast I used think there's no hope for us, we are stuck with these brain dead, ex cricketers that occupy the space and we'll never have good, thinking, strategy savvy cricket analysts,,,,,I am hoping again now!!! BRAVO

@dynasty5723 6 ай бұрын

feel for the newer generation in bachoun ke paas team hi nahin support karne ke liye. ye players achey hain magar ye wo level nahin hai jo humne dekha hai. i hope these guys get to experience something amazing like that ct17 again lekin mushkil lagta ja raha hai.

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

Pak cricket wins a major event once every 10 years or so, and as you mention CT17 gave these kids that experience. The players we saw massively underperformed in the 90s, and gave us a lot of trauma with their scandals, so I am not sure if we should dismiss contemporary experiences.

@dynasty5723 6 ай бұрын

no denying tht at all sir ji but ye wo team nahin hai they had a great run post 17 but i think the gap between us and other teams if far greater now then when it was before.@@BattaFast

@hiratahiir 6 ай бұрын

This is the cutest episode of Batta Fast

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

yaaay

@Takerfanatic 6 ай бұрын

A varied change on Batta Fast with new faces but I can definitely imagine Wasim bhai watching the Z writers saying: "guys it's just a game of cricket, one team loses and one team wins. Move on" 😂

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

hahahaha

@generationgapfans 6 ай бұрын

Hey, that's what our podcast is about 😅

@abhinavkapoor8945 6 ай бұрын

Jamal is to Pakistan, what Green is to Australia.

@Zakr1a 6 ай бұрын

Get a babar fan shaheen fan and a shadab fan on the podcast would be fun

@Grazaman 6 ай бұрын

abay o get me involved, Samiuddin

@HamzaShah-hk4ud 6 ай бұрын

Ahmed Naqvi: I hate cricket. Worst game ever. Anyway, here’s an hour long podcast on it.

@BattaFast 6 ай бұрын

Ahmed Naqvi was my grandfather, and I just do these for the clout.

@drwajidali6195 6 ай бұрын

Bhai yaiyaahh team se umeed na rkhen

@kn58 6 ай бұрын

Ahmer, we will always be doing this Rona dhona till eternity unless the whole PCB system changes. I think the team is a true reflection of the country as a whole so I don’t see it happening anytime soon. Tukkay main aik adha tournament jeet gaye to jeet gaye warna yahi vicious cycle. PS: I think babar is an overhyped player and nowhere near Kohli or smith just my humble opinion :)