Great channel. Many KZfaqrs change cars as often as their underpants in order to drive engagement with the latest cars. I appreciate the long term car ownership on this channel. It tells VW owners how our cars may age. If a problem pops up you will be the canary in the mine. Thanks for your great videos.

Love your videos , I like the way you don’t take it to seriously but still deliver good content and information

That is a sweet riff. Thanks for updating us on the batter degradation. 🤘

That song from your past should make it possible to give you a second like! Awesome!

Agreed that WV navigation is better than Google!!!! As you said, if you like to drive slowly.. but absolutely better to calculate the traffic expected loss of time!!!❤

Great video thanks for your time. Just putting it out there, ambient temperature and wind are going to play a big factor in range. Perhaps you can register these too with each year you do the test.

Good job Chris! By the way, the battery capacity lost to heat during use - is called the Peukert Effect.

Good video. If you account for the common idea that EVs lose around 5% in the first year anyway, and that your first year had a lot of dc charging and 100% charging, the numbers aren’t too bad. I hope you get the ID.7! I don’t know what it is but I really like that car, so I’d love to see you do a lot of videos with it. 🤞

Weirdly big degradation I think. I just bought a 3 year old ID3 with 40k km and it appears to have around 51-53 kWh. According to a few sources the available new capacity was around 56 kWh, so I maybe have 5-8% degradation. I mean it’s really debatable how to correctly calculate it, since officially they sell it at 58 kWh available. When I take the 54 kWh available that AVILOO is using, my degradation could even be below 2%. In any way: drives nicely, charges reasonably fast and the range is more than good enough for 95% of my driving. Thanks for your videos, they helped me a lot when deciding!

Very good information… I have to go for the bigger battery - same as yours… 🙂 we have pretty good charging infrastructure here in Denmark, but with that degradation/winter weather whatever a smaller battery is not for me.. 😁 ID 3 is pretty affordable used nowadays

Good video and great plate for the ID!

I think this is a perfectly good result given your previous results. If the car flattens off long term at under 15% deg like it seems to be trending towards, that's ok (I know you won't have it that long).

Great video! Rock on

Wonderful data set. Thank you for doing all this work. Might you know how your results compare with other ID.3 58 kWh pack cars? I have just about 100.000 km on my 2017 e-Golf and based on 31.5 kWh usable when new, I can now pull ~28.5 kWh from pack, though I have heat loss during my testing. Some day, I may try to perform a proper test. Still, that is ~10% degradation and I don't notice it in my routine driving.

I have had a 2022 Nissan Leaf. It is now 30 months since I first started driving it. I rarely charge on DC fast charge. I mostly charge overnight on a Level 1 charger and if possible I get it close to 100% often (since the EPA range is only 225 miles) According to the computer in the car, there is zero battery degradation. I would agree with this assessment since when fully charged and in ideal conditions the car says the range is still about 230-240 miles. I'm not sure what the difference in battery chemistries are between the ID3 and my LEAF but so far I am pleased with how little battery degradation I have experienced.

I agree with the VW navigation, i hate the search but the navigation is better than Google maps

Good video. The one problem for me is that all the data is about degradation over time, rather than degradation over distance driven. Without knowing how far the car was driven each year it is really hard to know what to make of result. I really doubt that most degradation is just time rather than charging and use of the battery which all relates to how much it is driven.

This info will be very important for people looking to buy a used EV. Maybe it’s time for the EU to mandate that all used EVs must be supplied with a battery condition report from a 3rd party/ independent company or app like the one being used here - ie not from the person selling the vehicle

You could consider recording the ambient temperature during your test on the spreadsheet. Wonder if it would play a roll in your comparisons year to year.

Will be interesting to see year 4,5,6 I think the degradation curve should flatten out

Holy crap, it seems like yesterday that I watched your video where you took delivery of Walter 😖

There's a new capacity test from Volkswagen and you will be given a certificate, it's more precise than a test drive.

Verry good information

Awesome heavy riff.

9% loss is not that bad for the first 3 years! Still have a decent range 369km/229miles.

12% in 3 years and almost 60,000kms seems fine to me. Our 1st Edition was new in UK in November 2020 and has covered less than 14,000 miles (22,000 kms). We only bought the car in March 2023. Given that level of degradation and our expected use we'll be there in another 5 years time! 👍

Big fan from the US here. Aviloo shows 54kwh available new which would put your deg at something like 8%. Are they correct on that buffer or is there just some smallish errors in your consumption etc?

i have 92% SOH after 10 years with my zoe

I tend to ask the address of the company where I’m going from Siri and then give it to ID navigation, both using voice commands 😅 most of the time works great.

Great video. Thanks for your effort. I own an ID3 Pure. Been using it for exactly one year and am curious to measure the degradation. Currently I have done approximately 13500km with an avg consumption of 14.1 kWh / 100km. Care to share how do you calculate the available energy kWh?

not a great result but somewhat expected. loosing around 10% the first few years and then about 1% per year afterwards is pretty normal for an EV in general as far as i know.

Cars should be more efficient at highway speed so even with a degraded battery you will still get plenty of range. Also, LFP batteries are great since you can charge to 100%. Also, BMS is clearly not good enough in ID.3

I read an article recently that an academic study said the biggest issue that degrades a battery is charging to 100% and DC charging when the battery is not preconditioned. So the issue isn't DC charging exactly. Which was interesting. I also wonder what the standard deviation/error percentage of your test results might have. Anyways, thanks Chris.

Not sure which battery you have but wiki indicates the possibilities are (full/available) 55/45, 62/58, 82/77. Aviloo report claims "available, in new condition" was 54kwh which doesn't align with any of those options. If your car started with 62 / 58 then your first figure of 57.2 seems to correspond but 52.65 after 12 months is disappointing to say the least. Subsequent 2 years degradation seems reasonable. Were all the tests done at similar ambient temperature ?

I also have a first Edition id3 and have the same degredation.

Greetings from Thessaloniki! I would love if you could share with us your band's music ( this sample sounded like a little bit of rammmsteeeein which is awesome)

55kw after 33.000km . The start is 58kw . So I have 6% degradation …

Thanks, Chris. I'll probably never buy a VW Group car, but your long-term tests are providing valuable information. I tend to keep cars for long durations (one, a budget model, was for 16 years), and our Zoe is 3 years old now. So your tests are quite relevant. When you eventually return the ID3, it will be interesting to learn how developments in battery technology affect durability and performance. Careful with that head-banging music! You'll be losing subscribers. 😄👍

13:26 The degradation is 11.43% in 3 years, but it seems to stabilize after 2 years.

With me, cars will have more then 10 years... My Zoe as 9 1/2, and the other 22.

Hi the years do not matter, just the kilometers spent 🎉 so at nearly 60000km 12% is quite a lot compared to average NMC batteries in Teslas (usually 8-9%). I am now at 52000km and have roughly 7% degradation. Of course two factors matter a lot: consumption and battery size, because the smaller the battery and the higher the consumption, the more charging cycles on 1000km. The ID3 has a smaller battery than my M3LR and consumes more, so more degradation is to be expected. Plus , both have NMC batteries, while LFP would have close to no degradation. As we know from the large Tesla study, DC vs AC charging does not matter at all regarding degradation, at least for Teslas with NMC batteries. So I think it is probably average for an ID3 and as long as you are fine with the range, there is no problem 🎉

Good information, but you didn't answer the most important question. Yngwie or Eddie?

Would you prefer the 38kWh IONIQ over this? They don't seem to degrade at all from the usable capacity

I can’t say wether thats good or bad but using your own car for all these different test you do which is great for us but I would not do some of things you do like rapid charging regularly or charging from 80% to. 100%. I charge to 90% only charging very occasionally to 100% and take it down to around 20 to 25% and avoid rapid chargers as much as possible. Hopefully that will extend the life of my battery as long as possible.

I've been wondering about my own batter capacity. My ID.3 Pro S should have 77 kWh. But when I check how many kWh I receive when charging, divided by the % the car says it has received, I always find that 100% would be 70-72 kWh. Every time, whether AC charging at home (7 kW) or DC charging from various chargers on the road. Shouldn't I get ~77? 🤔I think I got that the first few times I charged at home, but last summer when the car was just 6 months old I got the lower numbers. The *range* seems to be close to what it's supposed to be though.

ave 55mph...that would ring true. Lost count how many teslas I`ve seen on the M/way in the UK in the slow lane doing 50mph, with Suzuki Celerios overtaking them. Must be a real bind nearly filling your hosen at the thought of running out of juice if you do 70mph.

My id is relatively quick to 98 and then it takes twice as long. I hardly ever do 100%... usually 90%

My id3 driven 68000 km and still 56 kw left. I charge mostly only slow charging (3 kw) and only to 80%-90%. Do not use fast charging much.

I think that the consumption with the sw updates has decreased around 10% .. so same range at the end :)

In the 3 years you had the ID.3 did you notice any anomalies with the breaking equivalent to the tesla 'Phantom breaking'? Currently debating the id.3 or a tesla but the random breaking is putting me off the Tesla. Also the ID.3 for the UK hasn't got the larger screens etc until later on in the year.

Not an expert but does not seem too bad to me although I still think battery deg is a concern for most people including me.

I realise you don't like the ride quality on the Tesla Model 3 Chris, but in other respects I think it's a better choice. I have a 2023 Model 3 dual motor and it's been faultless in the 7 months that I've had it. I personally enjoy the sporty handling and ride. It's an electric go cart. It jiggles a bit over bumps but its not harsh or bad and I've never found it uncomfortable. The seats are very comfortable. Range, efficiency, battery management, charging, infotainment and acceleration are brilliant. Point is, even if there was 25% degradation it would still have more range than most other EVs.

could you instead of range test report how much kWh it takes to fully charge it and get the similar result?

How much fast charging do you do?

how does a leasing work with id3, do they just accept this battery degradation and sell it second hand? Do people buy used e-cars in Germany?

Get an ICE car, greater range and you can fill up and go in 5 to 10 minutes, plus there are more pumps then chargers in Germany.

Hi! Would you buy an ID 3 (09.2020) with 120.000km? They claim battery is on 93% (58kWh) but I doubt.

That riff was heavy as f!

i lost only 2,5% on LFP battery on a tesla model 3 and 60000km and mainly (90% ) on Supercherger

Why did Aviloo state 54kWh as the starting capacity? I find it quite hard to believe that the ID.3 would have such high degradation, as the charging curve is quite conservative and likewise the buffer also relatively big.

What band was your band's inspiration? Pantera?

You said that the DC charger gives a communication error if you try to start charging when SOC is higher than the charge limit. There is not any specific message in that case? Is it the same with other cars as well?

Can you put a link up for your traction battery tester please?

After 4 years I lost 8,5% ( from 26,5 to 24,3 kWh usable battery) on my Hyundai Ioniq classic. As I understand it, the degradation of lithium turnary batteries is around 2% per year the first years (4-5) then it spreads down to 1% per year. The last sex months my car shows no degradation . Your ID 3 should be expected to behave in a same manner.

You may not know this, but the VW dealer can hook it up to their test/scan software and tell you everything about the battery...

I'm curious about my Id4 battery capacity, I have driven about 158000km and ticking.🤔 Will return it 31 March next year with somewhere around 180000-200000km on the odometer.😊

Maybe I missed it. How many charge cycles did you count? I think this parameter is more important than time, such as 3 years....

Lucky bustard! The only thing I wish I did when I was younger is playing EG.

I think that’s to much. That’s almost buying a longrange and getting a standard range after three years. They should avoid making people frustrated.

Guess I am doing something wrong. I get a range of max 250km eventhough there's only 35.000 on the car.

The claimed capacity from Aviloo is not from 100% till the car is not moving anymore. It is from 100% to 0%. You can still drive above this point. That means the usable capacity is more than 54 kWh in a brand new ID. You can drive approx. 20 km after hitting 0%. If you calculate 15 kWh as average consumption this would lead to an extra 3kWh usable below 0% and would be very close to the 58 kWh usable battery capacity VW claims.

I’m running software 3.2. Have issues with it resetting personal settings back to factory every few days! Temperature, ambient lighting colours, drive mode, comfort light timers all revert back to factory. Have you had this issue and if so do you know of a fix?! Before personalisation on 3.2 there were no issues like this. Many thanks

230miles is still more range than I'd need on about 99% of my journeys.

Thankfully i have a Tesla mod 3 , done 40,000 miles in 3 yrs ! Only 2% degradation 😊

I didn't catch how many km you've driven since the car was new, but 11.4% degradation does seem high for a 3 year old car unless you're doing 100k km a year. I recently saw a review of a Tesla Model 3 Performance, which had been used as a taxi and driven hard, and it showed 11.9% degradation at over 310k km. I don't know how often it had been supercharged, though, but being a taxi, I would imagine quite a lot.

Bedankt

Was it the exact same temperature, wind direction and speed? Were your tires the same pressure? Not the greatest tests really. Better to get the VW health check.

Also, the smaller VW batteries have space for the extra modules in them. can you add an extra module?

Scary figures - imagine a diesel or petrol car whose fuel tank shrinks with age...

Pretty bad. My 2021 Ev6 has less than 1 % degradation, odometer at 76k km. About 30% fast charging. SOH at 100% in car scanner. Id3 does not have post charge conditioning (just like Audi, Skoda) that is able to avoid long time battery high temp status. Vw is working on it

You are listen music or heavy metal? Thanks.

That was a huge degradation. My Model 3 sr+ is from june 2019 and has done 130.000 km. Has a degradation of 4%

So battery degradation is real people! You lost 5 Kwh - in 3 years - good for you since you were leasing "Walter"

We are in the UK and we prefer Google Maps. I like the look of VW nav but the search is poor and the controls are not intuitive enough for my partner. We plan our journey at home and just save it to the phone.

I believe your first measurement was incorrect. A new battery has 58 KWh and this includes almost 2 KWh of below zero buffer. This has been confirmed many times with Car Scanner Pro and OBD2 interface - the latest one was the measurement Bjorn Nyland did on a very fresh ID.3 facelift (it showed 55750 for HV battery content after charged at 100%). Probably when you first got the car with its early software, the 0-100 SoC scale was accounting part of the "below zero" buffer, that's why your calculation showed 57,2 KWh. This can't be replicated in none of the new cars with 58 KWh battery. You can try to get an almost new ID.3 facelift for range test, you will see you will not get more than 56 KWh on the 0-100 SoC scale. Aviloo on the other hand accounts 54KWh as 100% SoH which is a bit low. If you account 56 KWh as 100% SoH, at first year you were at 6% degredation, second year at 8,5% and now at 9,5%. Which almost agrees with the common knowledge of 5% on first year, 2% on second year and 1% afterwards for NCM Li-On batteries, if you also account you did more Km in first year.

About the same as on a 3 year old fossil

Did it lose that amount PLUS the buffer? I heard that the smaller battery has a big buffer, so it will takes a long time to see any degredation... OR if there is any degredation given, then it must be in reality quit massive as it means the buffer is gone. Can anyone confirm anything I am saying here?

What kind of obsolete batteries are using by VW group ? new LFP batteries can do up to 600 cycles without any loss of capacity , and 3000 cycles with 20% loss

Hyundai Ioniq Electric has a vastly superior battery lifetime and degradation numbers are way lower.

How many miles has your car done? There's Teslas who've done 160,000-200,000 km with similar degredation to yours. It's not as positive as I'd hope for

Need to agree it souds horrible loosing 11.43% in 3 years, on the bright side it only lost 1% last year. Overall loss is the problem thats alot but seems to be the norm. For a medium range car like the id3 loosing 12% its still has a ok but not great range. Ppl buying cars with less than 50kWh or small range are going to get hurt way more

Our ID.3 58 kWh lost 14% (SoH 86%) after 64000 km in June 2023 since March 2021. That's more than I expected. Very seldom I loaded up to 100%, nearly always only to 80% with 11 kW.

The downside of LCO/NMC batteries (which most manufacturers of EVs use), LiFePO4 will do much better than this, and much less problems with 100% charge i.e. can charge all the time to 100% without issue, unless you planning to leave car un-driven for greater than a week when you should keep it at storage voltage (60%). "Lithium-ion power stations, both LCO and NMC, generally last at least 500 cycles before their storage capacity degrades to 80% of listed capacity. That said, most Li-ion power stations will remain functional for up to 2,000 cycles. You just won’t have as much capacity." "LiFePO4 batteries last much longer than conventional lithium-ion batteries. Assuming a 80% DoD, you can expect 2,500 to 3,500 cycles out of the power station before capacity noticeably starts degrading. " Pretty much the only ones using LiFePO4 are BYD and now Tesla in some models as they are buying the BYD batteries as are Mercedes in their higher end electric. Strangely one other exception is the lowest speced MG4 but pretty much all the traditional car manufactures are opting for batteries that wear out faster (I guess to sell more over time?). solargenerator.guide/lithium-ion-vs-lifepo4-power-stations/

Umm too much degradation for an only 3 years old car whit onli 57.000km..

Just wondering, what of the planet are you saving by continually changing your vehicle every 3 years?

You are not an idiot. The HMI is bad.

I love it when i drive 1000km and the car says theres still fuel for 1070 km.

Why would you not buy a Tesla instead of a legacy automotive manufacturer TRYING to make an electric car....

The more I hear about the ID3, the more I feel it was just a compliance car with little thought or ambition built into it.😢