LordMIGtau lmao dead

Coincidence? I don’t think so

Oberther! 🤦‍♂️

You mentioning the Oberth just gave me PTSD flashbacks to the USS Banting from the Academy game for the SNES.

NCC-639? They do reuse a lot of those old names in games...

well their war readiness was okaish in TOS....

They did just fine with the Klingons in TOS not to mention the romulan war...

@Inc. and paint Well having a mini beam scortch your homeworld will do that to you.

@@MehrumesDagon And it was rather meh in the Dominion War era. They just reused their TOS war readiness. Mirandas and Excelsiors as far as the eye can see!

Kevin Jones Balance of Terror my dude. The TOS generation was a military

Kundalini12 I am not certain if he actually did offload all non essential personnel. Admittedly it has been awhile since I last watched this episode. If I remember correctly he was condescending towards Dax and her suggestions.

Standard crew complement of a galaxy class is between 1000-6000 depending on assignment, even with running a skeleton crew it would not be out of the realm to be 900 still on board. Not to mention they were mostly likely thinking that they would be facing an enemy like the Romulans or Cardassians, so they would have had extra security and medical staff in case of being boarded and/or treating the injured. So 900 - 1000 being on board really isn't that far fetched, in fact I would go so far to say that would be a decent figure. My question though is why did they send only one escort with two runabouts? It would be more likely send two escorts with one runabout.

​@@Liowen The 1000-6000 is an uncited claim; however, 1014 is a number we have more concretely, and 1012 is said to be a standard crew compliment. So while there is potential for a higher range, 1000-ish is more likely to be the case. That said, we don't know what constitutes a skeleton crew. Some numbers have suggested at least a hundred to two hundred civilians onboard; if we further assume that the three duty shifts on the Enterprise-D were equal, then even without subtracting any civilians, it would suggest that 338 personnel are a standard complement to run the ship for a shift (while the other 2/3 are off-duty). I would tend to assume 'skeleton crew' would be beneath that. Either way- I would think 900 still aboard would be far-fetched; there's reason to believe (albeit few canon numbers) that even just evacuating the civilians would take things down to 750-800, much-less evacuating non-essential, off-duty personnel. I'd suggest that about 750 should be our high-water mark; and personally, I'd put the range of plausibility closer to somewhere between 100-300.

@@andrewgilbertson5672 6000 isn't an uncited claim, though. It's the officially stated emergency capacity of the ship, should it need to aid in an evacuation.

@@halofreak1990 emergency capacity of the ship probably includes refugees and civilians. Even the Enterprise with its 1000+ crew members had a significant civilian population on board. So i would guess a sub 1000 is a more likely number for essential personnel. How much though? My rough guess would be 600-800 people. But it's just a guess. And a rough one at that LOL! This would not be a skeleton crew though. Just the crew for normal operations. 3-4 shifts, all stations manned, self sufficient and with enough replacements. A skeleton crew could be as low as 20-25% of that.

They did. You are correct

@@mr_e_monkey8836 lore retread doesn't a silly little thing called evidence help form his opinion on something.

They did... so probably there would be around 400 crew onboard

​@@msvaughanand no families.

Ah yes. The "future Enterprise" was awesome. It went from luxury apartment in space, to kick@$$!

We can't just send the Enterprise, we have other ships. *Other ship blows up* Send Enterprise?

@@VERTHASAMVS Cant, sir. Got blown the fuck up by a decades old klingon bop. apparently riker forgot to give the fire at will command....

@@VERTHASAMVS She wont arrive 'till Tuesday

I'm flying that in Star Trek Online. With fighter compliments too.

Let its name forever be remembered

and a RAMMING SPEED!

@@LoreReloaded Mentioning names, Lore, would you consider doing a vid about Star Fleet ship naming conventions? For example when someone is promoted to Captain, do they have naming rights of their ships? Can a Captain newly assigned to a certain ship change its name? Or, if the ship he will be assigned is still in construction, does he get a say in the final name?

The Galaxy class is the red shirt of starfleet like the Miranda class and oberth class one or two hits on the shields and a warp core breach then kaboom.

@@jasonparis5635 Except for the Enterprise-D because it has plot armor. If the Enterprise-D was there instead of the Odyssey, it would have either won the fight or managed to warp out of there.

But they were prepared by the standards of the adversaries they'd faced up till then (excepting the Borg, of course).

If Q hadn't spanked them a bit, Starfleet would never have stood a chance.

fortunately, they had a captain who actually KNEW what a badass looks like. its not even his fault his ship and crew were excellent, its STARFLET that FUCKED UP by playing make-believe.

It's just lazy writing. Using the Worf effect to establish the Dominion as a credible threat.

@@Scyllax well there's a difference between being prepared for SOMEONE ELSE and Starting the war yourself like the US tends to.

Lol the runabouts were ridiculous throughout the entire series. What is basically a long-range shuttlecraft consistently fought or evaded fleets of Dominion ships (and others).

@@animateddepression my head canon is that the runabouts basically became the armored vehicles of the federation-super upgraded shields and systems to deal with threats, first from the Maquis/Cardassians and then from the Dominion. DS9 shows the evolution of smaller stronger vessels, with the Defiant being the apex predator of the fleet. Instead of luxury liners, runabouts are basically tugboats with guns on the side, overpowered and with heavy shields. Plus, as has been stated before in the show, shields that are extended over a larger area are weaker (the Enterprise D extended its shields to protect the ship of the romulan in “The Defector,” but Geordi mentions that the shields can’t take much punishment with that broad coverage). Therefore it’s reasonable that a runabout with small surface area can use shields much more efficiently than a massive galaxy class ship.

The domination weopend were going though there defence meaning they were taking g a ton more damage …. If u notice odyssey took out 1 or. 2 of the domination …… plus they would of got away but the dominion rammed its ship in there engines blowing up there warp core so the ship blow up

The engineering crew of the Enterprise was some of the best in Starfleet. Everyone wanted to serve on the Enterprise. It was the flagship. So yeah, your point is well made.

You are right, but I think part of the problem was the warp core itself. The size of the Galaxy with all the improved weapons, the powerful shields etc, required a bigger more powerful warp core. This probably created a lot of engineering problems in itself and it took a decade of improvements to sort out the worst stability issues.

@@torstenseidel8875 that is as good explanation as ever, i just like mine better :D

I think both theories are just as likely and both could probably be applied.

LaForge doing the Han Solo.. “and I’ve made a few special modifications myself.” With the Enterprise being on the leading edge of exploration and colonization, it stands to reason that at its inception it was equipped with a “best guess” of what would be needed, which for the time included the facilities for taking families on their 10-12y missions, which I believe was the writers’ initial concept for what the Enterprise D would be. It’s also reasonable to assume that it would be on the forefront of innovation on the fly, and would potentially be first to analyze and adapt newer technologies they’d encounter. LaForge proved to be worthy of Picard’s faith in him as he kept the wildly unstable warp core in as best operational condition as possible. Fitting that a blind man is the pathfinder (original Conn officer) and engineer for the flagship.

Blow one of the gunboats (misnamed as fighters) up, cripple another. Have those two do the kamikaze, one shears a nacelle of or otherwise clearly disables Odyssey, the other finishes the job...

Dominion tech was far more advanced than Federation tech at this time. Pretty sure it was stated someone that Federation engineers had to make improvements to ship based phasers to put a dent in those shields or something.

Odyssey probably still had type IX phasers, which were inferior to the later type X type. Considering that even the type X is a practical joke when compared to energy weapons from other factions, it's no surprise that the Odyssey basically was firing blanks at the bug ships.

Because those fighters has a type of armor even ablative armor has no hold on, PLOT armor.

@@44WarmocK77 Galaxy class design specs call for type X. There's no reason to think that the Odyssey would be equipped with sub-standard phasers.

Even the Jem'Hadar respected the MACO

@tylerx2f01 They were disbanded in the early to mid 2200's. The point I was making is that the Federation should have never disbanded MACO. If they had a dedicated military, they would have never been pushed around by the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Ferrengi, the Dominion, etc. It also would've rendered the asenine debate over whether or not Starfleet was a military entirely moot. Starfleet is a bloated organization with far too many duties to perform any of them to the best of their ability.

@@UncleMikeDrop I completely agree that the MACOs should not have been disbanded at all. Unfortunately Starfleet saw itself as a "peaceful" organization, & dedicated to the exploration of new parts of the galaxy, "seeking out new life & new civilizations, ..boldly going where no one had gone before" as its signature reason for existence, as a more evolved form of Starfleet. They had no ship earlier on dedicated to warfare in the TNG era of Starfleet, despite their occasional skirmish battles against the Klingons, & Romulans mostly. It was not until after the Borg attacked & then during the DS9 era when they were forced to build Defiant-class vessels for defense & attack in showing their renewed strategic mindset that they lost from when they had the MACOs a century before, to have the will to fight smarter & hit harder when going up against a civilization as powerful as the Dominion.

@@kevinwestrom4775 It was the worst sort of elitist hubris. Now imagine what they could've accomplished if they had a dedicated military that whole time. They likely would've had ships akin to the Defiant class and Akira class way back during the Cardassian border conflict. It makes one wonder how much suffering and death occurred on Starfleet's watch due to the Federation's cowardly half-measures. I blame Gene Roddenberry's childish anti military and anti capitalist hippie sentements.

@@UncleMikeDrop Who knows, but thankfully, these are fictional lives only & not real lives affected by Roddenberry's elitist beliefs.

Thing is the Galaxy class isnt a bad ship class at all, and its not so much as a luxury liner as remember the Enterprise D was more suited for exploration however still stood toe to toe with a Borg Cube and while not fully able to take one out was still able to hold its ground. People make fun of the Galaxy class more out of retrospect and sadly its kind of become a very under rated class of ship. However i think with the right weapons, equipment and crew the Galaxy class might actually be a good warship. The Odyssey itself is at least some proof of this as it was only taken out by chance and the Federation being a bit too full of itself.... Much like Picard was before he got that nice date with a Borg Cube.

the first half of the tng season left me thinking this was the love boat in space. As for the enterprise d design always left me thinking how unprepared starfleet was for exploring space.

@@zealotmaster1 Well in defense of the Enterprise D as it was in TNG season 1 i do actually think it was capable of wiping the floor with most of the Federations enemies at the time. I mean at the time the Klingons would have been a cakewalk (as they were even more stagnated then the federation), same with the Cardassians. The only real legit threat at the time was the Romulans and yes even the Ferengi (to a extent) But i think the Enterprise even in season 1 would have fended itself off well against both, sure there might have been casualties and deaths but not on the scale of what happened when the Borg and Dominion entered the stage.

yeah, much about that reminds me of the 1904 "voyage of the damned". kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b7OUnMJ3zZ_DcZs.html A fleet of navel archeological relics and luxury lines with guns slapped on them, ill-equipped for open ocean sailing, and sent halfway around the world to fight a battle with Japan. Well, I think it went more like the ships were donated to Japanese waters to make coral reef habitats of various shapes and sizes. Pore crew of the Odyssey, they never had a chance and had a bad flood of bad luck.

@@themadoneplays7842 It would never be a good warship because it has too many structural weaknesses. The neck is the main one.

Maybe Kim gets his transfer to Defiant /DS9 and becomes a Lt.

Me too

Like the variant where they strap a torpedo launcher on top? The best variant was the Main Character Armored version - like we see in this episode. All the runabouts should have been dead.

Lynn Green no no a much faster version pulse phasers ablative armour etc

Arhhh that already exists lol images.app.goo.gl/UkUmtfr6WV4ya6qy8 the “gryphon class runabout”

A bigger size of small starship would have been better. Oh look at all the concepts they threw out for the runabouts and even the defiant.

wwclay86 they re-used one of the concepts for the nova class

Especially with warp core breaches for the most unnecessary flaws, like having gotten a computer virus or being hit by a bird of prey. (ok, they couldn't knew that)

You missed the biggest one of all time, the Pegasus and it's *phasing cloak.* If Picard had just kept going till out of range of the Romulans (who had just committed a hostile act by sealing the Enterprise inside that asteroid, no doubt with the intention to call in reinforcements to later capture the trapped ship) he could have taken Admiral Pressman back to Starfleet to have them pass judgement quietly (retired or administrative duties, but actually secretly running a Section 31 operation). He not only denied Starfleet of that tactical advantage, he let the Romulans know that such a device was technically feasible (they had been working on one without success for a while) which would have inspired them to redouble their research efforts, maybe helped by scans of the Enterprise decloaking. It's argued that he did help negotiations wth the Romulans because they were amazed with such a display of honour and knew he could be trusted. But seriously? Imagine if Starfleet have perfected that tech and kept it hidden for emergency, like say an all out war. Maybe even have the replicator pattern hidden in every ship's database ready for hostilities (or being stuck in another quadrant or just transmit the specs to Voyager via the pulsar relay). Combine it with the stealth coating that ship from Gambit had, and wow. Which leads to destroying the *Vulcan Psi weapon* in Gambit that only works on people with hostile or aggressive emotions. That would be an amazing last resort weapon. Ship full of Vulcans (and enlightened humans?) takes out Jem'hadar or Romulans or Cardassians or … (Klingons when the treaty breaks down) at range. It's a WMD that only works on the angry. The ultimate ethical nuke. For a organization like Starfleet it would be a desirable technology, and as for it falling into the wrong hands, the perfect defense against it is to be calm, it wouldn't work on nearly all federation citizens if they were given the heads up. But regarding Data's daughter he was right, and that Admiral was wrong. It had already been determined that Soong type androids had full rights, so they had no authority to take Lal. And by trying to do so they participated the emotional crisis that killed get in her early vulnerable phase of development. If left to grow and stabilize as Picard had decided was the best course of action, Lal may have been the first of a whole race of Data's children, ready to join Starfleet. And why didn't anyone ask Lt. Barkley to solve the issue while he was hyper intelligent? And why didn't Archer return immediately with Tuesday captured Siliban Cell ship, and why didn't … … …

casbott Good point on the phase cloak, I chuckled to myself when I saw that in the computer game Star Trek Armada, the Romulans had it. My point regarding data and datas daughter is that these were early signs of Picard not being a team player. In both instances, the orders were coming directly from an admiral, even if not in a strictly military sense individuals who represented StarFleet leadership and policy. Now to be completely fair, the card was in the right regarding both Data and subsequently his daughter and he even tries to work it out so it’s a win for everyone but when admiral hardnose said Jump, Picard said no. Principled, but again, not a team player. As the series progresses he stands more and more on principle than duty until finally in First Contact he gives up on duty entirely by ordering the destruction of the enterprise with the goal of saving Data, his friend rather than going down to earth with the rest of the crew to maintain the chain of command (and honestly at that point it was a suicide mission and he knew itt). ST Insurrection being the next film is when it’s made abundantly clear duty doesn’t matter anymore to him (or really the Federation for that matter, given both their intent for the Baku and The fact they had a purpose built mass civilization abducting and relocating vessel equipped with a phase The fact they had a purpose built mass civilization abducting and relocating vessel equipped with a cloak).

casbott Why not mass produce what Spock and McCoy injected themselves with in Plato’s stepchildren. It made them telekinetic. Imagine an all telekinetic sf army?

The crew should have made a hard break with the federation and gone mercenary and killed all the Borg when they had the chance. Section 31 could have taken them in?

Too bad they always forget to unleash their weaponry while taking that beating.

Generations enterprise showed that..rofl...

They should have brought at least one DS9 regular onboard to hide behind their character shields.

Might not have plot armor but it did come with the Worf effect.

Phaser you mean :)

I believe some of the show creators have go on record confirming this. They said that the Dominion was originally introduced as overpowered for shock value but then later they realized that it was too much and ended up scaling back the Dominion for the rest of the show.

Yep. The destruction of the Odyssey was a plot devise to show off the power of this new threat in The Dominion & to hush up TNG fans that would attempt to claim the Picard’s ship & crew could’ve handled what Sisko’s team couldn’t, by showing that even like the Enterprise would by no match.

⁠​⁠@@aztn19 They didn’t hush us up at all. The Enterprise would never have gone to the other side of the galaxy either to show the flag or to rescue Sisko or both.

John Chilton this is exactly how I felt at the time too.

Except that military buildup causes tension and leads to more wars. Starfleet and the Federatiok want others to see that they intend to coexist in peace, not go into a volatile situation with a war fleet.

@@panzerfaust3607 But the Constitution and Excelsior classes were the best of both. I guess after the Khitomer Accords were signed, it was akin to the fall of the Berlin Wall in our world. Then the Dominion came along like Al-queda

Or Ambassador class

Or 6 Mirandas

I might have sent the galaxy class as a fleet flagship to serve as the ambassadorial vessel and also carry a fleet admiral in charge of a fleet of escort vessels personally and no I don't mean runabouts I mean a escort fleet of smaller starships that says in no uncertain terms "We are not screwing around". Pretty much the equivalent of in the modern day showing up with a capital ship escorted by a couple of cruisers and half a dozen destroyers off the enemies coast and very clearly saying "Talk or fight your choice we are ready".

@@@seraphina985 my thinking exactly. a show of force is a show of force. not much - say, a Galaxy and four Excelsior/Ambassador classes would have been enough.

Or like the US Navy parks a Carrier off the coast you know that ship is not alone

Kevin McGuire at the most, there were only around 150-250 crew left on the Odyssey when she was destroyed.

Hard to say. Could have as many as 700.

I'd argue Wolf 359 was the end of the "peaceful" Starfleet era, and one of the biggest events in the prime timeline's history was Picard and Riker patronizing Q to kick it off. Sisko getting steered/guided into being present at Wolf 359 leads to him finding the Wormhole and the entire Dominion mess.

Wolf started it, but I think the Odyssey was the final nail in the coffin.

I think thats a fair counter..wish the writers had included it

Thing is trek races are terrible at marking claimed territory. Like the Gorn incident

The Dominion was indeed taken aback when all of a sudden the Star Fleet ships were able to stand toe to toe with them. I argue that the Dominion was even more stagnant that Lore claims the Federation was. They blundered many many times in the war, and showing how their phased polaron weaponry was able to penetrate Fed shields was only the beginning. All it took was for the Odyssey to blow up for the Federation sleeping giant to wake up, and for Sisko to play his part in bringing the Romulans into the fight "one of the best episodes IMO :) ". I still have to wonder how many Betazoids died when the Dominion took the planet.

there was a discussion between Weyoun saying something about Federation shields not previously standing up to Dominion weapons and Dukat commenting on Starfleet's ability to adapt I want to say during the Dominion assault on DS9, but it's been a while

@@artbrann Exactly.

Art Brannen yes that was the episode. Sisko upgraded DS9. It was kicking the shit out of the Dominion fleet attacking it until DS9 finally got overwhelmed.

Granted, some of those losses came without external force, to get complete destruction you need either the core or the antimatter to provide the energy. And those are closely linked. Anything not instantly engulfing the ship in a ball of fire was simply beyond the budget I'd guess. Wrecking models w/o CGI isn't something you do lightly after all.

@@robertmartinu8803 which is why I said potential design flaw with the warp core or atleast its safeties was common with the early galaxy classes...

It's popular for some reason to hate on the Galaxy class.

Most Constitution Class starships at the time of TOS we're 25-30 years old when the Constellation and Excalibur were lost. The original Enterprise was 40 years old and was lost to lack of repairs following the Wrath of Khan and was run by only 5 people when it is designed for a crew of 400. Compared to fully crewed and fully operational Galaxy Class ships, they fail epically

And they had a couple of models left to blow up.

or at least armor the area around the damned things

I didn't take it personal man - I just get alot of guff for older stuff that, admittedly has egregious errors. Especially the transwarp thing where I have two different videos that addresses it. So I was just having fun and going back and forth. I apologize to if i seemed overly hostile - I wasn't. You actually got me to laugh a few times

Lore Reloaded good deal man. I think back to when I was a kid during TNG back in the day and all the information I see on all the different KZfaq sources would’ve just been too cool to think of when I was a kid I was born in 82 so the heyday of Star Trek is right when I was a kid so yeah man the stuff that you and other content creators do is awesome

The materials within that ship had far more quality than it’s foolish, reckless crew.

The Jem’Hadar were not waiting for them at the entrance of the wormhole. They were deployed near the planet that Sisko and Quark were on.

This was an upgraded one with a few surprises and i agree .the way they designed their ships was really stupid

That wasnt arrogance..picard and sisko have done the same

Leaving at maximum impulse while the tactical control systems were online and I would have ordered aft weapons to be fired which would have been enough to slow down the three ships and given the odyssey time under less fire to repair the port nacelle... full volleys of photon torpedoes!! Follow me Jen hadar! Why a full stop during the battle and also when the collision happened? Sisco and Picard would have used evasive action.

Because of it’s saucer, the Galaxy-class is slow at impulse. Wouldn’t have done the Odyssey any good to try to flee that way. It would have been rammed sooner.

More Federation ships destroyed instead of just one. The Jem’Hadar crushed the Tal Shiar-Obsidian Order armada and slaughtered most of Starfleet’s Fifth Fleet, which had over 100 starships.

Add in Admiral Pressman, although he would have just activated the *phasing cloak* he had secretly installed.

@@casbot71 No I purposefully did not include pressman. Pressman is an unstable and duranged killer. Yes Jelico is willing to sacrefice people, but only people who knew the risks, which picard did. And while maxwell was willing to kill enemy civilians to prevent greater loss of life through inaction, they both would never do what pressman did.... betray their own crew, lie, deceive, and outright endanger the federation. Pressman is a monster, yes he may have had starfleets blessing to a degree, but that doesn't excuse on any level what he did and would have done had riker not finally grown a pair at the last minute. It's very likely the enterprise would have been captured and her crew imprisoned and tortured by the romulans had pressman had his way in pegasus. you think Jelico or Maxwell could have even fathomed such a disgraceful betrayal to the federation or their crews? Never. and thats why pressman is nothing comparable to jelico or maxwell.

If all the surrounding powers know it's yours, do you really need to put anything on it.

It was Keogh not Starfleet that was overconfident.

The Empire would be a prime opponent to the Jem'Hadar! Unlike the the Federation the Empire and now the First Order ships are built for heavy battle conditions. Plus the Jem'Hadar fighters would not fair well against a ship like the Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer, plus the Empire doesn't invade or enter into battle with only a few ships, they come by the hundreds and sometimes by the thousands!! The Federation needs to think differently and increase their Military defenses, another words don't bring a knife to a gun fight!. Also to be noted is the Empire's Elite Crimson fighter squadrons are a equal match for the Jem'Hadar fighters. The plain fact is that the Federation was way to soft and let what little guard they had down after destroying a Borg cube. If they had more ships like Voyager ( Intrepid Class ) the Federation would have had less harder time defeating the Founders/Jem'Hadar! In a weird sense the Founders/Jem'Hadar are lucky that Wormhole didn't open up in the Delta quadrant or they would have been greeted by a group known for three simple words, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! Otherwise I find your comment about the ships from the Empire/First Order or even the Galactic Republic inaccurate. As Lord Vader once said......I Find Your Lack Of Faith DISTURBING😉.