Thanks for your thoughts! I'm still very interested in hearing your thoughts on the strategic depth of the game. As you said, it definitely feels like a light game, and I'm curious if it at times feels a little cold and calculating, as it becomes clear roughly how much each card and play will be worth and you end up making fairly clear decisions to optimize points. The balance of keeping a card for scoring vs playing for the deploy ability is interesting, but beyond that I'm concerned about the depth and intrigue of decision making and curious to hear your thoughts on that. On a related note, the player scaling is also interesting because while it does make sense that higher numbers lead to more card cycling, I also feel like it becomes a more tactical and less strategic game, as the board state changes a lot more between turns and it can be hard to plan for the future. Final question (sorry!) for you is about accessibility. Basically, I'm wondering who the target audience really is. For someone who wants a deeper or heavier game, this doesn't really seem like it. However, for someone newer to gaming or for groups or families who want something lighter, I also don't know that this fits because it feels like a lot of overhead and a very slow pace as everyone reads all the cards and tries to see how they interact. I don't love when games feel like they are very light and don't have a ton of meat but are still hard for new players to grasp and have a ton of rules/ explanation overhead, makes them much harder to teach non gamers. Who do you think this game is ideal for? A gamer looking for a filler plus style game, I suppose? Thanks very much, always enjoy your content!

I'm interested in the game for sure, but I'm worried the price for the deluxe is going to be too much and I am one of those weird people's who really wants deluxe everything. With that being said I find myself really enjoying games that are not amazing but just good games and it sounds like this could be one of those.

What different type of game would you like to see with the Red Rising theme?

@@RebeccaJensenRunBosco I'd rather see this game with a different theme. I'm surprised SM went after a juvenile IP but maybe they are trying to expand the community.

@@uxjared huh, I don’t think of Red Rising as juvenile. I do want to see a game with the IP, but I think a heavier game is more suited to it.

Our pleasure! So glad you found the review honest and helpful!

Glad we could help!

So glad we were able to cover all the bases. We're going to try and release vids early when we can in the future!

@@BeforeYouPlay Please, do not consider yourselves obliged to release videos so early in the morning. I was just pleasantly surprised, as it came at a nice time in the afternoon here (I am 10 time zones ahead of you). Honestly, you are already doing a lot. Your streams contribute a lot to preserving mental health in these crazy times, so you are not only indulging your hobby, but doing a public service as well, for which I will be forever grateful. There are a few content creators I have been following and they have helped me a lot to maintain my senses and not despair. I believe you once mentioned you are both medical professionals - well, you are making your profession proud, as far as I am concerned.

Oh perfect! That's exactly what we try to keep in mind when we put out our videos!

I agree with all of those points, having just discovered this channel a few weeks ago myself. The biggest point I agree with is #4, which is why I've had to stop watching certain pear-loving reviewers, among others (and my mental health thanks me for it).

Thank you for your kind words Earl! We appreciate your support!

Thank you so much!

Hi Peter we agree! SM takes a lot of criticism for some reason but we are truly grateful for Jamey and his company.

Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed the video =)

Oh that's perfect! We wanted to be as honest as possible and remain respectful to all the hard work that goes in to creating a game. This is a great 30 minute family game. Hope you will enjoy the books too!

Haha, you a big Fantasy Realms fan? Another commenter mentioned there will be an expansion for it!

You should! She is a huge fan!

i second that. I would love to get my hands on a smaller, environmentally conscience Blue or Yellow Edition or whatever colour the proletariat are in this dystopia, as opposed to the Gold's edition showcased.

Hi Sergio, we should have probably touched on the box size. We agree that it is necessarily bigger than needed lol.

Actually I think most think fantasy realms is a better game

We were asked to cover Tidal Blades during the Kickstarter but unfortunately had to respectfully decline it due to a backlog of other titles we needed to cover. Hopefully in the future we can play those 2 games.

DO IT!!!

I hope so too!

We want to see if there are any good errata/ house rules for a more robust card selection at 2 players. 3 was a solid game and want to test it at 4. Don't think I would want to player 5-6 players as it would add more time than the 30 minutes I want this game to run.

Yeah me too, but I don’t want to make Naveen play something he doesn’t like.

It's one that I (Naveen) just don't like no matter how many times I play it lol. I know I'm in the minority on this one as Monique absolutely LOVES it.

@@BeforeYouPlay lol that's fair. I definitely have some games like that in my collection that my wife loves and I hate. :)

Hi Nigel, I wouldn't classify this as a mean game. We haven't run into the situation you described. Sounds like the group was taking out some sort of anger/aggression for that 1 player lol. Direct interaction is less, it's more about hate drafting at times and blocking cards you think/know another player would want.

Not really true. There are even cards that give you points if you do not have the token at the end of the game.

Totally true, just gotta try your hardest to make everything come together and work. There unfortunately will be times when cards just don't come out.

@@BeforeYouPlay all plays to the tactical feel that I personally like about the game but I can see how it might frustrate some people. Also I think the fact that the house ability only comes into play from one location helps. If you are really utilizing the other three locations to optimize your hand the fact that your ability might feel weaker for the game situation isn’t as big of a deal. At least to me.

I think there are cards that play off all 3 "resources" though, so it seems fair to point out that you only get 3 points from each helium while potentially getting 4 points from each cube on the Institute or even 6 points from a single jump on the Fleet track.

If I wanted to play something quick it would be FR. If I wanted something a little more meaty and thinky, it would be Read Rising. Hope that helps.

Thank you Faisal, we are very fortunate to have a large collection of games, I'll be honest and say just "maybe" to your question. This is purely because we have so many titles.

@@BeforeYouPlay thanks for the insight. My wife and I have a smaller collection but it often becomes a question of "what's worth our time?". Thanks again!

Definitely true, but to grind out that much helium means you really liked the cards that were on the location Mars lol.

@@BeforeYouPlay True. Also the the one that activates your house power (if you are red ofcours). The good thing is looks like it is possible while still scoring well. The gameboy geek on his vid showed the score card and he has 36 from them (12 helium) while he scored like 303 total. I also think that while those are important the main thing it's the cards, so getting the most beneficial card for you should be priority #1. Although you can manipulate things better in a 2p game, in a higher player count I suspect that if you need it you better grab it now (and never let it go) no matter the bonus you get from a location. Of course all of this is speculation because I haven't played. After I do I will come back and let you know. I might realize I was completely wrong, who knows. Thank you!

Totally fair! We are unfortunately out of the loop on pricing otherwise we could advise.

@@BeforeYouPlay thanks! Jeymie actually answer a question about the price with 'if you plan for $75 dollars you will be surprised when is less including shipping' I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea. He has also said that the 25% discount for Champions will result in a greater discount than $10, so we know it is more than $40. I will take a guess that it will be between $50and $65 for the collector edition with shipping.

Yes the box is much bigger than need be (forgot to mention it in the review). You are absolutely right! The art style does match the looseness of the game rather than the seriousness of the books. The only game that comes to mind is Scythe which has combat, but the game isn't a pure combat game. Scythe still remains both of our favorite SM game.

The box is probably a bit too big, but not by much. They wanted to leave enough room for players who like to sleeve their cards, and for potential expansions as well.

Thought I'd follow up on my comment to share that I ended up pre-ordering the deluxe edition, haha. The 25% Stonemaier Champion preorder discount made it more attractive. Regarding the cubes being close in color- I anticipate playing this mostly 2 (and someday 3, max 4-player), so it should be easy to leave out the too-matchy colors.

Hmm, I don't think we changed any settings. Is it throughout or just at times on your end?

@@BeforeYouPlay i watched with headphones and it was confusing to hear a male voice a bit from the left side and female more on the right side

This is my question as well. I like quite a few SM games but I'm not sure I need this one since I already have Fantasy Realms. If I only had room on the shelf for one hand curating kind of game, which one is better?

Hmm... So hard to say. I'd say if you could justify it and you really enjoy the core mechanisms then yes. If space is an issue and you have a backlog of other games to get through then perhaps wait until you are ready to dive in.

Keep us updated on your interest. That is valuable info.

Would love to see the 2 designers discuss the house factions!

Lol, we do appreciate that SM is willing to collect data after a games release and make adjustments.

Haha, I will say that those metal cubes have a REALLY nice weight to them.

I agree with you on the card market in Red Rising and Fort being very different at 2, but how is it at all different in Race? You can see the exact same number of cards when you trade, explore, etc, and there isn't a market you're buying from like in those other games, you're taking from the deck and that process is entirely unaffected by number of players.

@@andrewroy9528 it's slightly distinct, yes, you're right. But on Race for the Galaxy the deck itself is huge right, so at two there's only so much you can get to see before the game end triggers. What that means is that cards that would benefit your strategy might be buried at the bottom of the deck and you won't get to see them at any given game. I've never done a full round of the deck at two; the flipside with more would be more people searching the deck so it would cycle more. What I experienced in this line were these: going for a military strategy and not getting cards to be conquered; getting cards that need "products" to activate but not getting enough windfall planets or planets able to produce a particular color of "product" to activate the abilities played before.

@@shinjial well sure but even at higher player count games you're still going to see the same proportion of cards in the deck - you can be going for military and still see very few military cards because your opponents happen to draw them. You're seeing about the same number of cards, so you have the same opportunity to draw specific cards, so the card pool for you isn't really changed at different player counts. In the other games you have more options for cards to buy because you have more opponents.

@@andrewroy9528 I still feel the card pool is different at two than it is at four. If the deck has 100 cards but it takes two players 60 to cycle and end the game, then the pool isn’t 100 cards, it’s 60. But if at four you cycle 120 cards you have a chance to see all the deck (between the players) and a bit more from the discarded pile. Also, if players got the cards you needed is a different effect of never even had access to them; the first is a result of players choices and interaction; the second is a limitation based on the number of players and disregards their choices during the game. So it’s similar to Fort and Red Rising in the sense that there’s only so many cards you’ll see and players will have to make the most of what’s already there - moving things around in this game, maybe getting a card from the other yard in Fort.

why do you get more out of it? the audiobooks are unabridged.

It's just so much easier to listen for 30 minutes each way on my commute lol!

We did an entire playthrough video of the game before we made this one, so this video was a follow-up to that. The link is in the description if you'd like to see the game in action

@@BeforeYouPlay I'll check it out. Thanks

In the designer diaries, you learn it’s the exact opposite. Jamie got the rights for the game and has been trying to design a game for the IP. His designer diaries is fascinating. I highly recommend

@@MrJdecoy Thank you for the recommendation! I have no problem with being wrong. I have found many games that take this unfortunate approach to design, however.

@@MrJdecoy I agree. And having just finished book one, I'm enjoying seeing how player decisions mimic the Proctor decisions in the Institute. It seems very well done to me.

Yeah the theme is certainly an add on. I know Jamey was a huge fan of Fantasy Realms and drew his inspiration from there.

@@BeforeYouPlay It’s certainly not a bad thing. The game looks like a lot of fun and seems to be a little deeper than assumed.

Hi Will. This video was made as a followup to our original "Red Rising" video that teaches you how to play the game and then demonstrates an entire 2-player playthrough of it. We tried to make reference to that at the video start. If you are interested in learning about the game, you can check that video out here - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZtxoMeDspeUZ2w.html Thanks!

seems like it's really just tapestry, which they released an update for. scythe is pretty well balanced except for blue. All the rest are balanced. Euphoria, between two castles, charterstone, and wingspan all don't have asymmetric abilities. Pendulum does but I haven't really noticed any poor balance there. Seems like you just want to hate on SM games considering more then half don't have asymmetric abilities

@@d13robot Ah, yes, the "you must be a hater" ad hominem. Maybe that plus SM discussions is the more iconic duo I was looking for. Scythe is so poorly balanced, certain faction combos are recommended to be banned. The top players in Scythe will give up basically anything in the opening bidding to take those combos. Charterstone has asymmetric starts -- one of the four factions (blue I believe) won 40+% of 4-player games in the fan-made dataset. And you don't need asymmetric abilities for the game to be poorly balanced -- for example, Wingspan has certain birds that are an automatic win if drawn early in the game (Ravens). Viticulture's balance is so bad that you have to actively avoid the thematic purpose of the game to have a chance at winning and then it becomes a game of who can top-deck the best visitor cards. So, yeah.

Raven does not equal a win in wingspan. I've only seen it win once and the odds of getting one of the two is really high. viticulture and charterstone are not imbalanced. Blue came in 4th when we played. Scythe, yes certain board/factions can be strong but don't bid then, deal randomly. You know like the rules state. Viticulture is random too and I've seen different combinations win. The games go through tons of play testing before being released. You should watch the overpowered video let's play did a little while back.

@@d13robot SM games go through playtesting by people who _pay a subscription_ to self-identify as SM fans. I'm glad these games feel fine in your anecdotal experience. I'm talking based on community feedback.