Berger Elite Hunter vs. Hornady ELD Match Expansion Test

Рет қаралды 47,759

5 жыл бұрын

After some debate with a few friends about hunting with a Match grade bullet, I decided to do an expansion test between 2 popular bullets that I hunt with.

Пікірлер: 109

@jessewerner4067 5 жыл бұрын

That's to be expected between the two bullets. With the plastic tip the ELDM will be much more expansive and quicker so. This is why it's a preferred bullet by many for really long shots. When the impact velocity is down you need a bullet that will still expand, the ELDM does this well. In testing I've seen it will still expand down to 1300fps. The Berger needs around 1800-1900fps to expand. It's all about knowing the impact velocity window you will be hunting in. Choose the appropriate bullet

@TeensierPython 4 жыл бұрын

I was load testing and recovered some eld-x from snow behind the paper target. Only one of the dozen bullets recovered had lead still in the copper. Losing a little confidence in the bullet choice. The jackets were shredded and only found pieces of lead.

@OkieFarming 4 жыл бұрын

@@TeensierPython At what range and caliber were you shooting? That don't sound good if you were shooting at 100 yd. I just bought some 143 G ELD-X haven't loaded any yet. I may get some 147G ELD-M an try those also.

@TeensierPython 4 жыл бұрын

Okie Farmer - 200yd 300wm

@theowenssailingdiary5239 3 жыл бұрын

@@TeensierPython that's a good thing at long range mate.

@noahengland3438 5 жыл бұрын

Them dogs are probably deaf now

@rightedge6453 3 жыл бұрын

what? I said rabbits eat lettuce

@thelongshotproject7375 4 жыл бұрын

It's really simple after watching this. If you are hunting sand bags, use the Berger.

@HulkTheGreat123 6 ай бұрын

This year I actually used the ELD-M 208 grain in my .300 win mag at around 500 yards on a deer. And the results were devastating. The bullet went in came out and left a nasty hole behind it. They worked perfectly.

@lanceroberthough1275 2 ай бұрын

Neglected variables: equivalent mass, differences in terminal velocity, differences in terminal energy. These are important variables that effect relative expansion.

@jmark1298 3 жыл бұрын

The fact is that either will work. The test itself, however, would have been much more valid if you would have: 1) Shot at the average distance you typically be shooting at while hunting and 2) done this test multiple times to see if the results were repeatable.

@fedup3582 4 жыл бұрын

Berger markets target bullets and hunting bullets just the same as hornady, sierra, nosler, and the rest. You think maybe there is a reason for this? Also, to the guy below, if you are shooting past the performance level of a hunting bullet, maybe you should get closer instead of useing inappropriate bullets at irresponsible ranges.

@jasonwallwork4682 5 жыл бұрын

So....Have you taught your dogs sign language yet as the primary form of communication???

@sav300 4 жыл бұрын

Jason Wallwork I was thinking the same damn thing

@OkieFarming 4 жыл бұрын

I was just looking at the Bergers online. I'm currently loading 140 G, ELD-M in my 260 Rem. with 43.7 of H4831SC in a 26" McGowen 1:7 twist barrel. built it two years ago an shot three bucks with it, All three complete pass-thru none took a step. The one I shot two weeks ago, hit both front shoulder joints and still a pass-thru. The other two were lung shot with 20 ft spray behind the exit wound. The Berger 140G .606 G1 and the ELD are .646 G1 After watching the video and hunting, I really don't see any advantage to make the change. Thanks for the video that saved me money and time working up loads

@theowenssailingdiary5239 3 жыл бұрын

Yep.

@dougroope8040 2 жыл бұрын

You won’t have any problems with the ELDM.

@jasonmcalpin993 Жыл бұрын

I use the XLD-M and Berger Hybrid for hunting it just depends on which bullet the gun likes. Both of them have great terminal performance. I am not a fan of the Berger VLD but the Hybirds are great.

@elkbow 4 жыл бұрын

Have to understand the whole picture. Use a hunting bullet for shorter distances, a match bullet for longer distances. Testing a match bullet at 100 yards and is found to come apart. If you shoot longer, say 500+ yards, the thicker jacket on the hunting bullet will act more like a fmj because of the velocity and energy lost. The match bullet with thinner jacket will get better expansion than the hunting bullet at longer ranges.

@shannonnunn 4 жыл бұрын

Everything you just said is wrong!!!! Berger hunting jackets are thinner than competition bullets.... Ffs The hunting jackets are meant to cause hydrostatic shock by dumping their ft/lbs into the animal at longer distances and lower velocities through jacket and core separation. Comp bullets have thicker jackets and can pencil without expansion or separation due to thicker jackets...

@seanmetzger4780 3 жыл бұрын

What he said was true...all open tip match, or tipped match bullets fragment violently...in comparison to a copper hp or bonded hp, which are solid choices at close range, but don’t open up and perform very well as speed drops. Berger bullets are nothing more then a match bullet, their target bullets and their hunting bullets both grenade on impact at any speed until around 1600-1800fps.

@elkbow 3 жыл бұрын

@@shannonnunn you guys have no experience at hunting, where do you live? What are your average kill shots? Get on the phone with George Gardner at GA Precision who works directly with Hornady and he'll help you with bullet performance. From George speaking directly about hornady bullets, which is also my experience "A lot of question lately about 147 vs 143. You can look and see the 143 has a jacket that gets increasingly thicker. It also has a small locking ring about 3/4 of the way down. This design alows it to initially open fast then slow down expansion as it penetrates. The 147 is a very uniform match Jacket that will expand very fast. On close shots at 3000 FPS it normally does not exit dropping all its energy in the animal. On longer shots where velocity is slower it performs IMO better than the 143 or bonded bullets . Match bullets have always performed better in long range for me".

@shannonnunn 3 жыл бұрын

@@elkbow I shot my first deer at nine years old on a dead run in the neck with a 222 after tracking it for 4 hours through the desert. My father was a trapper by trade and I killed more game by the time I was twelve than you will in a life time. I didn't know what beef was growing up. Mind your fucking tounge....

@workct4102 3 жыл бұрын

@@shannonnunn umm...no

@dudearon8130 2 жыл бұрын

If you're shooting North American game at 100 yards with a 338 Lapua Magnum, might need to rethink what cartridge you need. Do the same test at 500 plus yards in something besides sand.

@TenRing69 Жыл бұрын

I shot a nice 9 pt buck last year using a new CA 338 lapua with a Berger 250 gr elite hunter/ 82 gr of IMR 7828SC at 100 yds. No tracking involved. It dumped all its energy inside that deer. It literally flipped the deer over backwards landing on its antlers. Insides were pulverized. Quick kill I'd say. I will continue using that combo as a deer rifle as well as my Accumark Mark V in 300 weatherby. Different strokes for different folks.

@workct4102 3 жыл бұрын

Here's a crazy idea....use match bullets for paper, and hunting bullets for hunting....🤯

@barryboyd7973 3 жыл бұрын

That is revolutionary. What a concept. Think it would work?

@bigd3105 2 жыл бұрын

Eld-m bullets wreck animals do your homework before just following marketing. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o72PqqWI0bfGlX0.html

@workct4102 2 жыл бұрын

@@bigd3105 snipers vs hunting....🤔 btw, ELD has been around for what, three years? This guy is on crack.

@bigd3105 2 жыл бұрын

@@workct4102 yep you can call the ferry dusters for all I care. You got to the part where they were putting big holes in animals and folding them up on the spot? Lol better then any "hunting" bullets I've seen.

@workct4102 2 жыл бұрын

@@bigd3105 anyone can blow a giant hole in an animal...that is not the objective of a good hunting bullet.

@kn761 5 жыл бұрын

You shot a long range round at 100 yards to test expansion. An elk is not made of sand. Shoot a meat pack similar to what Paul Harrell uses, but more comparable to the scale of an elk shoulder and shoot it at 300 yards or more to get a more accurate test of what each bullet will do on game. People say you shouldn't use match bullets on game because they think they lack effectiveness. This test already shows that they are insanely effective. This test also suggests that the ELD-m will be more effective at extreme distance because it expands sooner and more easily.

@markwilson9810 5 жыл бұрын

A sand bag is far more dense and hard than an elk. That test was was a great representation of bullet performance and bullet weight retention. If an elk walks out at 100 yards are you going to pass on the shot and wait until it gets 300 yards away? No you're going to shoot it. I've shot deer with both bullets in excess of 300 yards and performance was incredible. I'm actually surprised he found any of the 285 eld-m. They are normally like mini hand grenades. Both bullets will expand on game from groundhogs to moose. When you normally see bullet tests like these they are using ballistics gel at 20 yards. To the OP you did a great job!! To K N, find something else to complain about!!

@theshootindutchman 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks this was helpful 👍

@juliusjames5577 Жыл бұрын

That sand is pretty dense, if the Berger doesn’t encounter that kind of resistance, do you think it will still open up?

@Joeatsaco69 11 ай бұрын

Very cool. I use the ELDs in all of my guns. I am looking for a heavier bullet with a high G7 BC and found this same Berger. I am going to try it in my 7mmMag. On the match ammo in ELD. ultimate reloader did a vid that shows they are swappable from X to M. Moth have the same zero and only 1/4” off Between the 143/147 in a 6.5 Cre. Both drop deer and hogs.

@chuck805 Жыл бұрын

IF you're interested in bullet expansion, try ballistics jel as they're closer to animal tissue (talking about impact resistantce) than sand bags. With ballistics jel you'll see the wound cavity and how the bullets actually perform. Just my 2 cents.

@lanceroberthough1275 2 ай бұрын

Weight retention data?

@dphillips4351 Жыл бұрын

That’s why we use hunting bullets instead of match bullets.

@McCracken216 2 жыл бұрын

You lost me at sandbag.

@ChilangoDios333 3 жыл бұрын

Good video thanks

@derekwhipple8419 4 жыл бұрын

If you're going for weight retention use a barnes or GMX bullet.

@workct4102 3 жыл бұрын

Nah...that makes too much sense

@ronkay1573 6 ай бұрын

My experience using both on whitetail deer I only use Berger elite hunters.

@richardfarmer4448 4 жыл бұрын

Hey bro the bullet is on the ground in between your bags fell when you moved the bags

@chadwalton2128 2 жыл бұрын

Nothing walks away from a Berger

@adamhymas4620 3 жыл бұрын

It's hard to watch, even though I'm just listening to it in the background.

@cpreit8862 3 жыл бұрын

Should of used the precision hunter wich is a hunting bullet vs hunting bullet or compare to a Berger target bullet

@keithwelnicke4042 3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. The match was designed for a target rounds. It wasnt built to retain weight. That's why it fragments. The precision hunter round was made for weight retention. Even the horandy white tail round would be a better comparison.

@mosiahshotgunn2777 3 жыл бұрын

The berger is good for hunting because they penetrate 4-5 inches and then they start to shrapnel and the ELDM would more than likely just shrapnel on impact and not penetrate. But since the ELDM are going slow it still wouldn't perform

@theowenssailingdiary5239 3 жыл бұрын

The eldm performs better at long range as it expands easily. That's what you want despite what others say. Sturdy bullets are no good at long range/low velocities. THE ELDM expands down to 1300 fps.

@matagunslinger189 3 жыл бұрын

285gr vs 300gr hmm. Why not 285gr vs 285gr ?

@dougroope8040 2 жыл бұрын

Funny, I’ve killed elk with the 285 ELDM from my Lapua without issue. As well as the 147 ELDM from my 6.5-284 and 6.5 WSM. All without fail. Who the hell tests bullet expansion in sand? Doesn’t matter how fine it is. Watching you shoot this rifle was comical at best as I’m surprised you even hit the bags as bad as you yanked that trigger. If you’re afraid of the recoil, get a smaller caliber😂😂😂

@jefferylorsung8846 4 жыл бұрын

That match grade did not hold up well. Bergers are designed to bang flop an animal. They expand really fast and usually only retain 40-60% . Meaning the match grade would be a meat grinder (fragmenting everywhere on impact). Its great to plan for the ranges you are going to hunt but you aren't going to pass up a 100 yd shot to take one at 300. Go with the Bergers.

@seanmetzger4780 3 жыл бұрын

Lmao...Berger bullets are literally open tip match bullets. As you said, they lose between 40-85% of their weight to fragmentation, ie: they act like every other open tip match bullet on the planet.

@jefferylorsung8846 3 жыл бұрын

@@seanmetzger4780 weird... maybe because they actually enter before expanding unlike the Hornady that expand at impact. I have pictures of game I have harvested with bergers if you want to see what an ethical shot with a berger looks like or you can just check the latest Boone and Crockett book lmao.

@dalemitchell-huntingmcridi3021 3 жыл бұрын

You shot with the dogs in front of the barrel!!! Not to smart! Poor dogs!

@ernestcardona9131 4 жыл бұрын

Sir I believe you contradicted yourself in the video. You said the Berger penetrated better than the Hornady, but in the test the Hornady went through 1 1/2 bags while the Berger went into 1 and stopped. You also said you didn’t have to cut the bag open to find it. It was right there at the entrance. You may want to correct that. And the Hornady did it twice. Not sure how or why you thought the Berger penetrated better.

@cadesteen1196 3 жыл бұрын

Watch the video again the first Hornady round was the one that didn’t penetrate through the first bag.

@littlewoody5539 Жыл бұрын

If I was hunting with that 338 I would shoot a copper bullets . Those dogs high tail it out of there lol .

@redneckflyfisherman4240 2 жыл бұрын

The Hornady ELD Match is not designed for nor intended for expansion. It is designed for long range target shooting only. This if from Hornady themselves. I had contacted them to see about this myself. I shoot the 270 gr ELD-X in 338 Lapua Mag. I was wanting to capitalize on the higher BC of the 285 gr ELD Match and added weight for long range elk hunting as this bullet has the lowest wind drag of anything on the market at .829 G1 BC. According to Hornady, the ELD Match does not have the Interlock Ring that the ELD-X has to allow for consistent expansion. They did say that it is possible for the Match bullet to have expansion but it will likely not be on a consistent basis and depends a lot on the density of the target (animal) where impact occurs. They do not recommend the match bullet for hunting purposes due to this. I have read where hunters have used this with success but I have not seen actual footage of it in use nor it's results in hunting conditions. The sandbags will have much more density than a big game animal so it's hard to say this video would support using this for hunting purposes. I will say this, when properly hand loaded with bullet seating optimized for your gun the ELD Match is second to none at and beyond 1000 yards. For hunting, I use both 270 gr ELD-X and Berger 250 gr HPBT depending on what I'm hunting. I've yet to have the opportunity to shoot an animal outside of 560 yards while hunting with the Berger 250 gr. But I will say that this particular bullet did fragment on me on impact. Fragmentation is not a bad thing if you're packing enough energy. I shot a large whitetail at this range and the bullet exploded on impact and fragmented through the path. All of the fragmentation made it completely to the other side of the animal but did not exit. The deer dropped in it's tracks. The lead retained all of it's weight and was in one piece. The jacket split open and fragmented in to four pieces. Unfortunately you can't attach photos to comments. It was pretty impressive. I have never had the 270 gr ELD-X fragment. It mushrooms really nice and has superb weight retention. It would be nice to see this comparison at 500+ yards with gel targets. I will also say this, I never trust any video or written article on anything until I test it myself. I watch and read to gather information and see if the conditions are similar to what I'll be doing. Putting a 285 gr ELD Match side y side to a 270 gr ELD-X you cannot tell the difference. It would be easy for anyone to take a box of 285 gr ELD match and fill it full of 270 gr ELD-X and you'd be none the wiser. Not trying to accuse anyone of false intent but remember, this is KZfaq, where everyone wants to be a star with 100K+ views. Take everything you see with a grain of salt. You'd be amazed at what some people will do for attention. Not knocking your video as it was simply target shooting. On a trust scale I'd give it a 85-90% grade. 😄

@cpreit8862 Жыл бұрын

Match is a target bullet you need to use eldx

@headcarter4656 2 ай бұрын

Berger #1

@taylorcleblanc 4 жыл бұрын

Why do people insist on comparing apples to oranges? These tests are stupid.

@edinalic8943 4 жыл бұрын

Berger

@LudwigsPrecision 3 жыл бұрын

target bullets, left for the range both of them. non of them are either made or effective for hunting. do the same test again and put a nosler partition with them. 1 hunting bullet against 2 steel/paper.

@theowenssailingdiary5239 3 жыл бұрын

Not true. The ELDM is an awesome performer at lower velocities/long range. At close ranges it works better on behind the shoulder shots. Of course bonded bullets are better close ranges overall. Partition it great, but struggles with distance shots, and doesn't compete damage wise with the likes of the Eldm's at long ranges. At long ranges the partition and the like need to be put in the shoulder. But the Eldm penetrates shoulder at lower velocities too. Just my thoughts. Nathan Foster is a hunter from NZ and has documented thousands of kills of various bullet types. Check out his videos/website. A lot of these older guys on KZfaq are talking absolute shit about bonded bullets being the be all and end all.

@havok7799 5 жыл бұрын

eld match has a really thin jacket. Need eld-x which is a bonded hunting bullet.

@jasonlee2194 2 жыл бұрын

Eld-x is not bonded

@josievelarde5467 5 жыл бұрын

Eld x is a hunting round built for expansion and the ELD m that you're shooting is designed to shoot paper. Will it work? Probably. But you know how it is with anything you got to have the right tool for the right job! 🔨 Happy hunting 👍

@johnbishop1911 5 жыл бұрын

Maybe you should have used the Eld X. The Eld is not a hunting bullet

@utahhunter7441 5 жыл бұрын

The Berger was originally marketed as a match bullet too, but now its one of the best hunting rounds out there... My daughter dropped an elk at 730 yards with the eld match and it worked great.

@jessewerner4067 5 жыл бұрын

Many people have found the ELD X "hunting" bullet to actually be MORE explosive than the ELD Match.

@caesar5555 3 ай бұрын

Apples and oranges. You shpild compare to eld-x hunter to hunter

@mustangfan3295 4 жыл бұрын

Match bullets should not be used for hunting period. Shooting sand is not the same as shooting an animal. What a waste of time!!!

@jesusisalive3227 4 жыл бұрын

I guess I'll have to dig up all my dead elk and deer and apologize for killing them with an eld-m instead of an eld-x!

@OkieFarming 4 жыл бұрын

Better call Berger and give them your imput

@puckerfactoroffroad1326 3 жыл бұрын

Eld match is for target shooting not hunting. Thus these results.

@WilhelmNauta 6 ай бұрын

A stupid test to start with. Never hunt with match bullets. Yes, they are lethal, but it is a bad idea for so many reasons that I don’t have time for. If your car tyre states maximum load or speed or pressure, why exceed that. Just stupid. Poor sound quality and lots of dead time. A shorter video comparing Berger Elite Hunter to Accubond Long Range and ELDX would be useful. But to tell me a match bullet doesn’t have weight retention is just a waste of time.

@jamesmendoza8392 5 жыл бұрын

ELD match is not a hunting bullet

@markwilson9810 5 жыл бұрын

The ELD match is a great hunting bullet. Couldn't ask for better terminal performance. Please explain why you say it's not a hunting bullet and let's use facts and experience instead of what you read somewhere.

@casey197930 5 жыл бұрын

Did you hear a word he said Captain Obvious?

@elkbow 5 жыл бұрын

Eldm used lots for hunting

@paulfakenbridge2393 4 жыл бұрын

@@elkbow Just waiting time. Sand does not duplicate anything in the real world.

@elkbow 4 жыл бұрын

@@paulfakenbridge2393 true, not a good test for expansion. Also different distances have different results. What I've found that the thicker jacket is a hunting bullet like the Hornady ELD-X works best at shorter distances, say 500 yards and under. But as you lose velocity and energy at further distances you don't get expansion, but bullets like the ELD-M's get fairly good penetration and better expansion. But this comes down to what cartridge you are using, so there is a limit to everything, and depends on animal size.