And after all that, they became friends again, even worked together again, and still friends today ... incredible!

Bernard should finally remaster Dogmanstar.

He's right, there's definitely something up with the overall production of that album. The first album is near perfect. Would love to hear Bernard's original intention with all the extra guitars left in as well 😊

Dog man star sounds amazing to me

Best band from 1990's Britain hands down.

Well everyone loves Dog man star and it remains one of suedes favourite albums. Ed Bueller’s work with suede is great I’d say it was coming up that had a more dodgey production.

Those first three albums. "Suede" was a butcher's knife slashing into what was pop music at the time. DMS the masterpiece of the 90's regardless the debate over it's production/mix and then the ability to do a 180 and create one of the greatest pop albums ever with "Coming Up" is nothing short of incredible. Suede found a gem in Richard Oakes, very underrated. But Bernard is the guitarist of the 90's. Playing was other wordly and his vision of what he wanted for Suede's sound cannot be overrated for me, as well as Brett's lyrics. I'm sure he could be a cnt at the time but he was young and knew how good he was. When he auditioned for the other members he asked them how old they were and told them they "better get moving then" as they were all 3 to 4 years older. Would "dog man star" have been even better with Bernard at the helm? Idk but I'd pay dearly to hear what he'd have done with it.

I love DMS as it was released. I also love the full ‘Butler’ versions and demos as heard on the deluxe remastered releases. They act as companion pieces, a sneaky peak into a parallel world had Bernard been a little more easy going in personality and had never left the band. The band had something special, then, in the early/mid nineties. A darkness, an optimistic bleakness. Lyrically, guitars… it was a perfect storm that was always going to pass.

If you listen to the demos of The Wild Ones and The 2 of Us that were released in 2011, you can't help but agree with Bernard. The full unedited version of The Wild Ones is a superb sprawling beast that the single can't match. The 2 of Us also lost something particularly special when it went from demo to final version. There was tonnes of interesting stuff on the demo that just got ditched. I've never liked the final version of that song and always felt that it was very flat.

It was a masterpiece.

Id love to hear Bernards mix of the album. Im sure it would have been great. Saying that I think the one that was released was well produced and he is wrong about that

I love Suede but I think this clip probably does show that Butler can be hard to work with. He fell out with Mcalmont as well eventually. Dog Man Star sounds nowhere near as bad as he thinks. He was still young and brash at this time.

I think DMS was Suede's dark side of the moon & as good as DMS is I would have loved to heard it with the production values of dark side

Wow, he looks so young (pun intended) in this video. And this is àfter DMS.

Looking back this fall out wrecked all their music careers. They would argue it didn't but it was clear that when they worked together they were more creative than they were separately. Shame.

Bernard Butler could cause an argument in an empty house.

Im really no expert on sound and maybe part of the reason I like DMS so much is Ive listened to it lots but I very much like the way it sounds and Im also not sure it needs more guitar tracks. I would love to get to hear the guitars they took out.

It was the Sgt. Pepper 🌶️ of the Britpop era.

Good for him. The machine is evil.

I can understand him. His choice to be sincere and authentic in his music is something i do appreciate, and it has been a very brave choice because Suede at that time were in the middle of the storm of the second record, in order to try to keep safe the success of the first , and it probably was his desire to not be into this. But if you listen to Dog Man Star b sides and early demos and extended versions of Asphalt World or Stay Together (not included ), you can feel how different they sounded from the album. Bernard was literally obsessed by making a very pretentious masterpiece ...but in the end the production cut off much of the beauty of it in order to "be more commercial". The sound looks like encapsulated in an hotel room, very claustrophobic. It is their masterpiece to me, but probably it could have sounded much better. Anyway Suede became a totally different band after he was gone away from them. Anyway there was a lot of tension between him and Brett, you can feel it watching their concerts of 94 ...i was happy when they have reunited like The Tears in 2005

I never understood the line that Dog Man Star was badly produced which even Ed Buller and Brett now agree with. To me it has always sounded amazing. We can only imagine what they heard in the studio to think the final version of DMS sounds bad. It's really the debut album that sounds so thin and compromised to me. I also wish the complete versions of Wild Ones and Asphalt World had been released and keep the edited Wild Ones as a single instead, it would have solved so much bitterness and not robbed us of Bernard's incredible music!

Sounds like Bernard wanted all the songs to sound like Stay Together with its never ending layers of codas at the end (on the long version). Whats-his-name from Mitchell and Webb nominated Metal Mickey on Desert Island discs yesterday (11/03/2023), but what really struck me was just how rustic and raw it sounded. The first album had better songs, better guitar parts; but the second album certainly sounds better produced, much cleaner. I thought Ashpalt World was ultimately what it was that broke up the band, although I loved it at the time. But I can see how the slightly older Bret Anderson would've thought it self-indulgent.

I love BB style of playing but I am very surprised that he does not like the sound of DMS. I think it sounds great and Ed with Bob Ludwig made a great job out of it. I cannot really say anything bad about the sound whereas I can say many bad things about the sound of the records from 4th Suede album onwards...especially Night Thoughts - this sounds terrible. So again, very surprised. I agree with BB though that a lot of great guitar layers and intros were abandoned on the way...

I always thought, and am sure I read in an old NME interview, that Bernard left the band because they were on a US tour and his father was very ill back in the UK or Ireland, or wherever he lived, and then he died, and he then had to go back on the tour and his mind wasn't there, he was grieving, and he felt the band weren't very empathetic towards him, so the tension between Bernard and Brett Anderson (and the band) grew and grew until it exploded.

I played Dog Man Star the other day & it sounds very good. The 1st album very good also. Comming up production wise was a little bit ott but great songs . Head Music is OK, some great songs but do not like production ( may be more the mastering too loud)

DMS sounds fine to me. The singles from it are great. It has possibly my favourite Suede album track ‘Heroine’ but ultimately, (bizarrely) I think the two albums either side of it are better as a whole.

Dog Man Star is fucking RAD tho regardless

Anyone know where this location is?

‘Dog Man Star’ will always be Suede’s best album, it’s as good as Dark Side of the Moon, although waay muddier and murky sounding, but doesn’t that just fit the mood of the whole piece.

Bernard Butler vs Brett Anderson was like Brian Eno vs Bryan Ferry all over again; two classic albums in less than a year, but their egos were too big to keep working together.

Drugs and youth.

Hang on Bernard, you were in a BAND with another writer, you were NEVER the only person creating in Suede, NEVER.

Even though Richard is great, it was a bad decision to fire Bernard. Especially so as his father had died, this was particularly insensitive of Brett etc. leaving his guitars outside the studio isn't very nice. DMS is unlistenable, even though many of the tracks are interesting, there is no brightness or lustre to the songs...overall it sounds murky and lacks something.It is clear Brett & Bernard were an exceptionally creative songwriting force, evident in The Tears. However, it is important to remember Bernard owed Brett nothing after he was fired.

Bernard in 1995 is just plain wrong. Dog Man Star is a wonderful record that bucked against the cheerfulness emerging in British pop music. Big sounding with real ambition. The music has real depth of imagination and feeling. Buller did a good job.

I just listened to the original and the remaster…..and he’s right, the production is terrible…..parts and songs are great though!

Oh wow. Bernard was correct, though - the sluggish production on _DMS_ is mostly awful. Even Buller eventually acknowledged some regret.

I'd never heard this reason for the split before and I'd never taken a side. Just watched this. Brett was a 'king idiot.

Lost interest in Suede since BB left the group

Speak up!!!

Ok, in truth here is what happened. Butler had a huge ego and a vision and was uncompromising in his vision. The record doesn't sound bad at all. As any true fan knows if Butler was honest with himself he was in a self destruction period. He was envious of the attention Anderson was getting. He was grieving over his dad. He was far more comfortable in the studio and didn't want anyone else telling him how o do things - his ego was out of check and he wanted to produce the album but the record company would not let him. The only song on DMS that is poorly produced is New Generation, but tbh it's probably more in the final mix. Butler needed to ay off the cocaine as a coping mechanism for grieving that was the real problem here. As he says now... he's full of apologies now, but at the time he did not give a sh!t as he had a vision and if anyone got in the way he went after them and Buller and Simon were the last straw.

While some of the production on Dog Man Star is a bit OTT or 'overstated' such as New Generation and The Asphalt Word, it stands out as their best album IMO. I absolutely love it. I get the impression Butler was going through a difficult time and behaving like a brat as a consequence. Of course, Anderson was also up his own arse a bit at the time, but what a great album. Must have been difficult seeing the band being replacing him with a better guitarist, albeit not as good a songwriter as Butler.

Yeah but what do you really think Bernard!! 😂

You can't give one band member that much control over album production. I respect Bernard but clearly he was going way too far with his demands. I really think he was looking for a way out of the band, and this was it.

Problem is, Bernard, you were not the only creative person in the band and nobody ever said you were the sole writer and producer. You wanted your cake and to eat it and you couldn't have it so threw your toys out of the pram.

Whatever, his solo album was garbage. He did nothing of note since leaving.