I agree with the .308 being an excellent starter cartridge to learn distance shooting. It isn't the 1.5 mile .338 Lapua but obviously that isn't a shot a beginner will make. Once you push upwards up towards 1000 yards you have the opportunity to practice your skills with a .308 that will translate well into other calibers later.

Not another person more qualified to give advice or the experience with different calibers than Mark! Can't imagine a better ELR team throughout the world...not many teams shooting regular! Great video & keep up the awesome work!😎💯👍👍👍👍👍

This is one of your best videos. Your reasoning is exactly why I've never heard of a MotoGP racer who didn't start on a small bike and moved up incrementally.

I’m really glad I’m going through and watching more of your videos. Very informative! I really appreciate you sharing your perspective.

Great video Mark! Could have been drawn strait from my own mind. I’ve always been one who learns through the utmost challenges! In my view it is always the best way to truly learn the fundamentals of what ever one is working at! Thanks and will be sharing the hell out of this one for sure! 👍👊

Got my start with a single shot 223 and it taught me A LOT! Great advice!

I like your information. You seem to make more sense than a lot of other people. Very good video. Two thumbs up!

My friend, Keith Highfield, taught me much about shooting. He used to write articles for Precision Shooting magazine. He’s also in the Australian Benchrest Hall of Fame. Great video and I agree 100% with your assessment.

Love your channel. You're exactly the type of people that folks can learn from. Very good job of thinking objectively

Excellent perspective Mark! You’ve helped me in my decision making process a lot with this video.

Thank you very much for your honest humility, the time and effort you put into your very informative videos, and your sound, down to earth advice. I do agree that .308 is a perfect combination of skill developing vector and cost to performance ratio. I personally like what Bergara B-14 BMP offers as it comes with quick change .308 to 6.5 Creedmoor barrels, which at the price point is a good value.

308 Win and 300 Win Mag are my go to choices. 308 is where I got my start and due to that it is my favorite round. Always been a great round and I dont see it ever becoming obsolete. The 308 serves so many purposes and its effectiveness cant be argued for its intended purposes. I really enjoy watching your videos. Professional or not, the wealth of knowledge you have on all of your firearms and ammunition is overwhelming. I respect everything that you say and take it all into consideration. I have learned a lot on ballistic boundaries and firearm combinations from you. I feel that the things you talk about and your relentless testing of equipment is some of the best i have seen or heard. Thank you for your knowledge and videos

It’s crazy that I’ve been following y’all for a couple years and I’m just now seeing this video. I’m looking at building a custom elr and this video hit the nail on the head. Thanks and keep up the good work🥃🥃🥃

Great advise for any one starting out in some longer range shooting Mark.Nice presentation on the subject also.

I’d say your opinions are definitely something people should listen too. Great vid. Love your long range shots keep up the good work 👍

I agree with your opinions 👍 My 308 taught me the most about going past 1000yrds and I still respect and love it, Thanks for your videos and knowledge,Keep up the great work🙏🍻

So much wisdom. Start to learn, not to finish.

Wow, I love your way of thinking. I had intended to (and still do) acquire a 6.5 Creedmoor (Savage Desert Tactical) and a semi-auto .308 (Smith and Wesson M&P 10). My idea was to use the .308 out to about 600 yards, and the 6.5 out to about 1400 max (just before trans sonic), and I was going to use the 6.5 exclusively for LR shooting, and the .308 just for tactical stuff. And this was precisely because of the more pronounced bullet drop and susceptibility to wind in the .308. Now you've shown how my reasoning was exactly the opposite of what I should have been thinking: when you want to LEARN long range shooting, the .308 is the better choice precisely due to its deficiencies. It forces you to learn to compensate for wind effects and bullet drop more proficiently. Thank you for setting me straight.

Excellent could not agree more, start with what you have forget the sales pitch, thanks Mark and Sam

You're bang on mate. I (accidentally) picked really good calibres to learn on when I got back into shooting about 10 years back. 22lr, 44mag and 7.62x54r. The 6.5CM and 300WM I have now seem really easy to shoot well. Only just realised why while watching this. LOL I might be an idiot.

Your to humble Mark ,considering your ability and time mastering your sport ,I think we can give you a title of Professional . Cheers for sharing always learning something new. Cheers.Mick

100% right on! Learned on a 22lr when I was 8 years old. Great gun and still shoot it all the time!! It’s really fun. I chose 6.5 Creedmore for my first long range because the round has been so popular here in the states that there’s plenty of ammo. Great stuff Mark.

As always very well put, and to the point keep up the good work and love the information you share on the elr side of things very informative, thx again.

I agree with everything you went over here. Though I am not a fan of the 308 it is perfect to start with especially in how you explain everything. Like you said in the beginning first look at what you already have. That's how I started pushing 200-250 yrds with a 22lr and then my first rifle being a 7mm rem mag. So yeah I had troubles relearning and honing my skills when I picked up new rifles that just didnt match up to how well that one does overall.

Without a doubt. Excellent advise

So so true. I'm ex infantry and 7.62mm 308 was my favorite. I have now got into the 6.5 creedmoor and its proformance is awesome

Great explanation! I’ve was sort of blessed if you will. With many friends that have exceptional / pricey rifles and optics. 28 nos, 6.5-284, 375 cheytac, you name it. But it was almost too easy to make those shots. I didn’t actually start learning until I started testing myself with a 22lr, carbine 45acp, and now my 308win (which shoots sub 1/2moa all day by the way). I learned the posture, the internal and external ballistics, as well as how to improve my setup bedding jobs trigger jobs etc. 308 is a great option for learning, hunting, and cost. Well said sir!

Really you cant get a better advise than this. Simple. I am sticking with my 308 :-). Thank you Mark!

Good video. I happened to start with a .243 because I had one but after talking to better shooters and competition shooters they convinced me to get a .308. I did. They helped me dress the long range bench rifle with a Nightforce scope and different loads to try. After 5 years I built a LR rifle based on 7 mm RUM, replaced the Remington light contour barrel, (Really Remington? A RUM with a light barrel?). Same scope. Shot that for 5 years. Then bought both a .223 bolt with bull barrel and .338 Lapua, also bull barrel. I shoot the 338 in competition and practice with the 223, both have the same scope and stock, especially when my shoulder gets tired. I have had fun and I’ve kept all my shooting and loading notebooks. Have fun everyone. If it’s not fun...... why do it? 😎

Finding some were to practice is why I use a 22 long rifle from 25/50/70/100 meters 22/250 fox gun and my 270 Remington is my every day hunt guns and after watching this A NEW 308 😉 with Nightforce Scope for range thanks Mark/ Sam

I have been having lots of fun with my wife shooting our pistol caliber carbines at 200-400 yards.....very educational for a relatively new shooter to begin calculating trajectory, etc and doesn't require excessive open area.....no recoil for a new shooter to deal with....... and it's fun

excellent advice mark well done

Your ideas make sense to me. When I decided to get back to deer hunting, I chose 7mm 08 and have no regrets. But had I went with the 308, I could have done much of my practice shooting and experimentation much cheaper. 7mm 08 is a little more expensive in my area, and for the kind of hunting that I do, 308 would have been fine. If money is an issue, 308 is cheap and has a great selection of ammo, and or cases and bullets if you hand load. There are also many models and manufactures producing rifles in 308 so lots of choice!

I started target shooting as a high school kid at police boys after school with Air rifles lol the old sharp Innova, was fun and learnt so much about competition shooting that was 35 years ago, not sure such a thing happens these days sadly

I agree. Start with what you have....

.308 was my choice for starting out in the long range precision world, I always have been and will always not only respect your opinion but also take it into serious consideration when i have to make decisions regarding this sport, and after watching this video i was relieved that you said .308, and it just makes sense, you will learn to USE your scope in every way possible, and get your money's worth from a expensive scope, if you practice with a .308 in average conditions, you will enhance your kills to be able to use your 6xc or 7mm-300 or which ever designated long range rifle you own, in any unpredictable match conditions. It is also perfect practice for your reloading skills, cheaper brass and loads of different bullet choices. So you will also learn the effect different reloads has on your results.

I want to get into ELR one day. I’m testing reloads in my 300 win mag now. Your a great shot buddy.

Great points! I would hardly say your not an expert. From what I’ve seen your highly qualified! Other than the 22lr when I was very very young, my first rifle in a “man’s”caliber was a non sporterized 1903a3 in 30-06. I must have been 16 when I was given it. Still later I’ve really come to most enjoy shooting .my various 223/5.56 rifles

Great advice Mark. Thank you!

Very informative, exactly what I was looking for. Thank you

Started with a red rider, nailing grasshoppers and sparrows at 40 yards plus on a deer lease i was on for a number of years. Now I have quite a few rifles, hoping to get a 6.5 creedmoor soon and I eventually hope to do long range competition shooting. Good video.

Cool homegrown. There are so many vastly different disciplines in shooting. Great advice on selecting the right tool for the job. I love the science behind long range target shooting. So many disciplines need to amalgamate to achieve the desired result. Science, technology & skill that only comes from experience. Keep up the good work.

So I have been watch your channel for about the last couple months. I think sometimes 2 or three videos a day. Lol but the amount of knowledge you have and just what I have learned is incredible. I have been reloading for 15 years now in my 308. I do it because it’s cheap. Out to 800 yards I am pretty good at getting my rounds to hit where I want them to . Even in bad wind ,good wind .. you can always walk them in and if you’re consistent with your reloading process you can be very accurate with a 308 . 6.5 creed more is kinda on the lighter side for what I would consider ethical for shooting animals out past the 500 mark where as we know it put the 308 in the dirt past that. For what I do with hunting and slightly dabbling in longer range shooting I do believe it is one of the best starters calibers . The diversity in bullet weights is what I truly like about it . I have load data for when I ran 250 bullets out of it with h4831 chronographed at 2034fps. What I’m really getting at is . Thanks for the info and really do appreciate hope you and Sam work together with her always positive attitude. Shoot what you have is great advice as well. And it funnily found me and my brother doing a little elr with a pellet gun. Lobbing them out at 200 mimicking your guyes setup . We had a blast to say the least.

I would shoot at the dirt near my target to see the impact better. Kentucky windage practice is the best practice, imo. After a few adjustments of the elevation and windage, you can shoot very accurately. It all starts with a bb gun with a scope, or adjustable sights. Practice, practice, practice.

Great vid as always! .308 is going pretty darn good last couple years in FTR with the 200's compared with the F Open guys. A good FTR round is great to 1,000 but would choose something else beyond.

Very good advice. I remember when I was learning guitar, I had a terrible guitars, my teacher took it and said I should really work on techniques, and play a really pretty piece of music. Skill is more important than tools.

As a new rifle shooter I was asking this exact same question - which calibre. Your common sense approach and excellent video has made my mind up to go with .308 as I really want to understand all the subtle nuances of precision shooting. Many thanks from the UK.

I started with a 8mm 98 Mauser, with the very luxurious "mild" steel butplate. It was a sad/happy day when I shot my last box of Hansen ammunition.

Good information Mark. I think the fact you are not a competitive competition shooter makes your suggestions a lot more balanced. I started shooting with a .22 LR at school competitions. (Yep. That means I am an old fart.) I am a fan of the .308 for a lot of the reasons you mention in the video. At my local club I occasionally get to challenge other more talented shooters than myself to Rimfire competitions. We shoot from 100 yards with .22 LR subsonic only. The ballistic calculations involved are the same as a .308 at 300 yards. That does prove to be a challenge for some. I am a relatively new viewer to the channel. I had watched you video on Bi Pods. I am pleased to tell you my groups using an old Howa 1500 SA .308 at 500 yards are now sub MOA. What can I say except. YAHOO!!. Keep up the good work. 👍

For alot of people starting out financial barriers prevent them from getting enough trigger time. .308 win is usually readily available at lower cost than most other centerfire rifle cartridges,which allows for alot more shooting. A .308 and a 22lr can really teach you alot.

Well said! I love how you said 22lr for starter rifle. So many times people go out and buy the biggest gun in the store later to find out they don't like it on account of the recoil. And to the question of the best caliber... well the the answer is a question within it's self. Great video bro!!!

Bang on mate... the only people who bag out the .308 cant shoot well enough. As an f class shooter you can push 155.5 gn slugs at on or over 3000 fps. Learn to drive it and you can get very good scores at nearly 1 km. Plus... 5-8000 rounds a barrel vs 1500 rounds for the 6.5, 280, 284 etc. $1000 a barrel..... so glad you said the .308. Its a very very good round. Learn to drive it

This video is quite helpful in providing a nice perspective from an experienced shooter. Aside from the .22 I have, if I ever gather the spare funds to finally something that fires a higher caliber , .308 is where I’ll start. Originally for the fact that it is so common and can do everything I could possibly want for my expected ranges, but now also for the value in what can be learned from the way it might behave. That sounds like a great way to see results in practice. Thanks for the video. Time to spend another month trying to determine if I want to buy a ruger or something.

Thank you for the video!

agree 100% but I started with a 22lr , then 223. Bought a 6.5cm but we only have 300yds at my range so I sold it because the 223 does a great job I live in an area where the only range that has 700 M is owned by the military and they won't let us on it. With my 223 not only am I learning better shooting I have placed a tuner/brake on it and now I taught myself to reload.

Great advice thanks a ton

Even with having a few larger, very capable calibers I spend more trigger time behind a 22lr. Which drives me to buying large quantities of same lot rimfire ammo. I have a Kidd Innovations barrel (Lother Walther blank) and trigger on a ruger 10/22 that is wicked accurate and it's a riot to see just how far I can push its limits. I have to say, never had I thought about shooting it out to 900 yrds like you did in another video. 300 has been the longest thus far, but you've inspired me to extend that in the future.... Thanks for the great videos.

Always very informative thank you very much.

Very good video! I completely agree the .308 is a great starter cartridge but for one more added reason! It's everywhere and the cheapest round to use! Even when we were having a hard time finding Ammo, the .308 was around. Since it's the lowest-cost ammo for long range, you won't break the bank as you learn! Thanks for the video and keep up the great work!

Amen, I wish you were around 40 years ago, the craft is the craft, learn your dope! Glenn Newick's book the ultimate in rifle accuracy is a great resource for the basics, God bless you both!

Great content. Long time ago I picked up influence from another Utube channel .243 was a viable option for long range training. That said and thinking an entry point for deer hunting for young adults and women (smaller framed individuals), I had no idea how this would spawn into the 6.5 and 6 Creedmoors. I agree the .308 is tested, tried and trued as a nice entry point but the flight path of a 308 is much more of an arc in hitting it’s target. To that point and pending the wind normally shot in might be deciding points of .243 or .308. Not to confuse in my last statements but 308 parts, ammo and stepping later into handloading seems the most economical option due to sheer availability. Mark, you’re excellent in presentation, content, research and mentoring. Very much appreciate you and Sam👍

So many factors! Great video!

Well done mate and merry christmas!

I think you forgot the very valuable .177 pellet gun. Especially a break barrel that is difficult to shoot accurately.

Great video again Mark, I agree on 308. Great cartridge with a long barrel life and has the most universal appeal. So many great component choices. The 6.5's and 6's are only appreciable when you compare them to 308. Without the comparison, it's not going to mean much. 308 at 1000 yards simulates super calibers at 1500-3000 yards well, like .375 Cheytac at 2500 for instance. Same frustrating and challenging wind behavior. As far as super calibers, I am still loving .375 Cheytac. With the Peterson brass and all the great projectiles it's becoming one of the best. Still no Sammi though! 338 Lapua is kind of the 308 of the super calibers, long life and plenty of options.

I mainly shoot a 7mm Rem Mag, but the .280 AI is an impressive cartridge. Very efficient and becoming more common in the last 10 years.

I've recently got into shooting as a sport. First it was to go hunting. I still love hunting but i've been really enjoying target shooting. I got a 308 by reccomendation from the people at the gun shop. Since I've expressed interest in long rang pretty much everyone I've spoken to has told me the 308 would be no good. This was refreshing to hear watching your video. Id love to hit a 1000 meters with it one day. Though being a ultralight with a 3-9 scope I can't see it happening. A scope upgrade might be in order

For a beginner shooter, I agree with the suggestion to use 22lr. For the beginning shooter that wants to begin shooting long range, should probably start with a 223. Keep the low recoil, low cost theme going. Affected by wind and drop even more at shorter ranges, so you don’t need access to a mile of country to learn the same skills. Love my 308 though.

total agreement went this route, and it served me well

Thank you for sharing!

You'll also get more milage out of a 308 barrel compared to most of the newer prc rounds. barrels and reloading components are pretty easy to find and theres a lot of data to help them get started. Its a good round to cut your teeth on to figure out what information is important before going into rounds where data and components may be scarce.

Great video buddy very informative

Wish you would have talked a little more about training with the 223. I do most of my training with one that is capable of sub moa at 1000 yards when the stars align. Although it is not supersonic past 850. 'Your choice of the 308 is outstanding but the 223 as you touched on takes most of your points to the extreme. I believe this caliber has taught me more than any manual, book or advice that I have ever been given. I have many long range rifles to choose from but when my boys and I want a challenge we get out the 223.

In my experience and teaching my children, I started with 22LR, now both of them shoot the same as I do, out to 1000 yards a 7mm-08 and past that out 2000 yards to a .338 lapua.

In the British SForces, we used to use the .338 LM (checked and weighed individualy for Counter Sniper ops (.338 on Melon shots and for vehicles up to .50 cal) in pre-2000, a few years back, might be diff. nowdays..

Great video! Thanks a lot!

I do Target rifle and lots shot FTR in 308 can use 223 as well but most are 308 which i love is a challenge at 800 yards in gusty wind the change in direction and strength can really effect your score but part of the fun .

Because of my experience, the first thing I would ask someone with this question is: "What do you consider long range?" or "What is the farthest you can shoot at your range?" A couple years ago I wanted to practice and learn to shoot long range. When I got into this my goal was to be able to shoot up to 500 yards. .308 is EXCELLENT and definitely what I would recommend if the farthest you plan to shoot is 500 or 600 yards. That being said though, I've now shot a mile with my 6.5 CM, so if you have the space you may eventually be trying to push your limit.

Great, I have enjoyed your presentations, good to see an Aussie, its not all Americans out there..

Great video. Love from USA

Great info.

I started with what i had at the time, just happened to be a .243 and 95 gr berger worked well, and i still use it today for long range. Now i have moved on to 6.5 creed, 7mm 300 magnums, and 338 LM. Great advise mark.

would like to hear your thoughts on calibers for ranges longer than 1500yards. i think your spot on about cost per round. shooting is a skill you learn by doing. so you need to be able to afford it.

You guys have great topics and knowledge bit mention you guys can shoot.

Nice, common sense advice. Well done.

I have an old edition of Frank C Barnes Cartridges of the World. One thing that remains constant is that there will always be somebody who wants to build a better mouse trap.

Good advice. I have a .308 with a heavy, high quality barrel 20". I installed an adjustable target trigger and adjustable stock with comb. Its not a bolt gun but good enough for practice and learning. Im going to break in ths barrel and start a new log book next week. Im going to start off with factory match ammo and experiment with TROM Long range before starting hand loading. I also have a CZ .22lr to practice bolt gun shooting. Ill let you know how it shoots. Have you tried any TROM ammo? Aero bullet design to help .308 get out to greater ranges. Thanks for the good advise. I am saving up for a .338 chassis rifle in the future , but for now practice makes perfect.

anyone serious about long range precision rifle shooting should absolutely learn reloading. you will exceed commercial match ammo and you will shoot for much cheaper. you will get a lot more out of your rifle for the same amount of money than sticking with commercial ammo. you don't need much space for a press, a kitchen stool is large enough space for a complete reloading setup.

Good points .308 Win will stabilize in all twists for 30 cal. from 1-9 3/4 to 1:13; it will stabilize and stay stable at far lower velocities than 6.5 or any of the "sub-caliber" rounds. 6.5 outperforms .308Win up to 1200 yards, but after that it falls away and .308 Win at 2570 from the muzzle is stable out past a Mile.

I’ve always thought the .308 was a great place to start. I have a few friends with more money than sense that got into long range shooting. They started with a 375 cheytac! After me and a few other guys told them they needed a to start out with something more like a .308. They spent so much money on their rifles too. I could not believe how much they spent on their first rifle to start the hobby. They wouldn’t give me an exact cost but from the their what I’ve looked up wit the scope and rifle each one had to have spent at least $12k per rifle. And they don’t even know if they’re going to like and stick with the hobby! We all kind of got into it together. I spent just over $1500 for my .308 and that’s with everything! Bipod, scope, and everything! We go shooting and I’m actually having to use a ballistic calculator and adjusting for wind at 800 yards and they because they bought rifles and scopes that are paired up already know where to hold. So they’re hitting out to the 1200 yard target like nothing. Saying see I told you this is why we didn’t need to start out with a .308 we are out further than you hitting more of our shots. So I put my scope back to zero handed it to one of them and told him to hit the 600 yard target. It took almost a whole box of ammo to finally hit it lol. 18 rounds! He didn’t know how to adjust for elevation or wind. He was thinking he could just hold a little over at 600 yards like he does with his .375. I ended up shooting his rifle and I will admit it’s is freaking awesome!! And just about idiot proof. No wonder they could hit the 1200 yard targets so easy. Their scopes are basically setup for the round and rifle. I loved that .308 and it helped me learn a lot. Unfortunately I had to sell it in hard times like 5 months after Covid hit. But I’m back in school now and will have a better job in a couple years. So I will get back into the hobby. Love this channel. Been subscribed for so many years I can’t remember how long it’s been. Your sir have tons of experience and would take your advice on this subject any day. Keep up the good work! Peace my fellow firearm lover!!

Спасибо!!! Потрясающая беседа! Очень удивлён таким мнением, особенно когда все говорят о 6.5! Сам владею 308, и очень его люблю! Thank You!!! And the 22lr is great! Owner)

I'm hooked on your videos Mark, I would much rather get sound information and advice from you. I've been to clubs in the U.K. and some of the advice you get is shocking.

I love the 308 ❤️

Good advice

I too agree. One of the best aspects of shooting 308 is the history of the rifle. Components are plentiful and there is a lot of data. Data is key because good data begets consistency!

I don't own a .224 Valkyrie but it might be a good caliber for those wanting to start shooting longer range (1000-1500 yards) with low recoil. Another advantage of .308 is the improved barrel life. Wear out a 308 barrel while constantly working on smaller groups and you'll learn a lot. I think the real issue is reloading, and while I think that's a large part of the game, I know that many people want to start without the intricacies of reloading, and while it's not my interest I can see the attraction of focusing exclusively on shooting technique and trying to do the best they can do with a box of Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Later, with more experience and solid shooting skills, the shooter can get into different calibers, reloading equipment... the sky is the limit. Best wishes from Kentucky, home of Kentucky windage. :-)

I believe the real question is this, do you want to push the limits on your own loads or are you happy to buy off the shelf rounds and then see how far you can go with a scope and paper targets and test your skill with various weather conditions, the more you practice and the more you learn about what type of weapon system you have and the projectiles ballistic coefficients and based on factory loads, thats where the challenges are, have a 7.62mm or 308 round and then do a customised powder and projectile and based on the barrel twist see how good you can score at various above the factory spec rounds, ( above a extra 400 yards more than the factory round can do) thats the challenge of it and the more you test and learn the better you will be at it, whichever caliber you decide to use and whatever rifle you use etc. cheers thats my opinion. :) also knowing the ins and outs of the scope your using as well, how to adjust properly in extreme weather conditions especially heat and wind at ELR shooting. :)

Like your honest opinion. I shot .308 love this calibre

Excellent lesson, Mark! Your KZfaq channel followers are aware that you have top-of-the-line equipment in your gun cabinet - and also that you have a top-of-the-line mate; the lovely and delightful Sam. Now that you’ve generously shared your recommendations of how to start with precision/long-range shooting, how would you recommend that a bloke approach the quest for a top-of-the-line mate like Sam?

I know this is an old video but picked up a 308 because of your video, figure if I can work with this then the rest should come naturally.