Thanks for preparing this video! I appreciate you bringing up the toxic behaviors fans have since I feel like we just get so normalized to it

Good breakdown, Aydin. I can add another toxic behaviour.....ageism. I'm an older fan and have heard younger fans (dunno, 21 and younger??) call us hags, "get a life", and other derogatory terms. They fail to notice that their faves (well maybe not some of new 5th gen groups) are often older than them and that us "hags" are probably earning the money that can buy the merch. Also another toxic behaviour are the crazy "akgae" fans who stan only one member to the detriment of others in a group, pitting them against each other and then ripping into fans who try to defend others. Again they fail to realise the groups are usually so bonded to each other that they are family. These fans/antis are truly insane and these behaviours ruin the image of kpop. It's the parasocial phenomenon but it's also about how poor social media etiquette (basically common human decency) is so lacking in our world today (and that can include oldies who are just as badly behaved online as anonymous trolls). All of this is such a huge pity. I was mostly oblivious till I joined X. Probably a really bad decision on my part but enough to make be stay away from TikTok. One bad dose of medicine is enough!

So true also when one group win a certain award the other fandom literally hate them calling them undeserving etc . Everybody works so hard so how can the fans who are watching from afar comment such thing alling undeserving....

Thank you for adressing this problem. I have noticed the same and I honestly wonder, if the parents of those type of "fans", haven't taught them, what decency means. Also this type of toxic "fans" seems to have permanent verbal diarrhoea. I also find their behaviour disgusting and criminal towards idols and other fans. Being exposed to this kind of pressure from this disgusting "fan bases" damages the whole music scene and mental and emotional health of several idols. And we have seen, where this can lead and don't need more of this.

Well said!! As someone who got in the kpop scene since the earlier days, I’ve seen so much toxic behaviours all round. I especially cannot relate to fans who think they own the idols. I feel that it was really a blessing that I started supporting BTS since their debut in 2013, otherwise if I am a new fan, I don’t think I would get into it. Even till now, I tend not to associate myself with the fandoms due to the toxicity. As a multi-stan, I have no issues with supporting SHINee, BTS, MCND and SKZ so I also don’t understand why we can’t all just focus on supporting and enjoying our groups instead of attacking others?

I agree with you a hundred percent. I avoided getting into Kpop even though my sister got into it years ago and tried to get me to listen to it too because i knew how toxic the community could be and how idols are treated and it just made feel like its taking away from the enjoyment of the music. I finally got into it last year when i found stray kids but i still am not really a part of the fandom and i usually avoid those places on social media but sometimes it still finds your way to you and it just leaves you a with a bad taste in your mouth, like the recent hyunjin thing. We are watching all this content for enjoyment, to destress, relax, have fun but stuff like this just does the opposite. I know a majority of the fandom isn't like that but i don't like the feeling of taking the risk or the stress that i will find some idiots that will ruin my day when i venture into the community which just makes me avoid it. edit: I also wanna say that most of the stay that i have interacted with have been incredibly supporting and nice and i have seen a lot of people put down this sort of behaviour. So thanks to all those people who do try to make these spaces better like you did by making this video.

Thanks for shedding light on this topic. As someone who got into kpop around the same time as you I've been quite shocked by a few things as well. I think thats why I find myself liking the smaller groups more or i just listen to the music without consuming the reality they put out because I'm honestly tired with everything. The first group i got into was stray kids and i think it happened kinda naturally. But this fandom can be kinda crazy sometimes you wake up and as an international fan well the entire community is on fire and you have no idea why. And I'm not one to join hate trains so im usually just left feeling confused tbh. But even with smaller groups or idols hate comes out of nowhere. I've watched like 2 survival shows and the fake rumours that people spread to discredit other contestants because they want their faves to debut its honestly a disease that starts early in my opinion. But yes your point about fans hating because they gate keep is so real. I remember Skz did a collab with lil Durk last year and as a result people who didn't know skz but knew the song reacted to the song. I personally like reaction videos especially if someone hasn't been exposed to that particular thing before maybe its weird but i like hearing a fresh perspective. But it was quite disgusting seeing all these people say "youre a small creator and you wants more views thats why you're reacting to kpop", like damn do y'all know idols are out here making music and hoping its not just 5 people who see and experience their craft? They wants exposure and obviously that brings them benefits as well (In terms of like sponsorships and even the position they hold in their company). So as a person who has been in this space for a year I've kinda reached a, well skz is my first group and so unfortunately I'm already invested and even with them really for me its more about experiencing music in a different way because i wasn't really a music person before this (and just analysing lyrics and also the production stuff) 😁 but i think thats about as close as it'll ever be. When it comes to other groups I'm more inclined to be a casual fan. I'll listen to their music here and there. And if i see a funny short sure I'll watch that interview or that episode of content. But i don't want it to get to the poiny whereby I'm getting updates on what they ate for lunch or what they posted on bubble, I'm good. One thing about kpop its algorithm ruiner

One thing I find both fascinating and also see as one of the roots of toxicity is the way a certain subset of fans treat KPop fandom as if it was a sport. You have to pick "your team", and then it is all about the numbers the team makes, and winning every competition. Just that instead of the idol team themselves, it's actually the fans who are competing against each other. You can't really blame the fans for this, because the industry is set up this way, with how music show wins are calculated, especially the parts counting sales, streams and the different types of fan votings. This means a lot of these awards are literally won by the fans for their idols and not the other way around. To a certain extent it is expected that if you want to be a fan, you have to invest time and/or money into boosting your idols' numbers. The industry was very effective with outsourcing a huge part of their marketing efforts to fans. But this also makes it so fans of "rival" groups will fight each other over numbers and awards, really the same way you would have the fans of two rival football teams facing off. It can really make people lose sight of the music and the artistry, and also the goals the artists themselves might have. There have been artists who left big agencies and gave up on bigger numbers to gain more creative freedom or different kinds of opportunities that their agency with its mainstream focus didn't afford them (e.g. Ok Taecyeon talked about how JYPE didn't want him to take villain roles as an actor because they were afraid of the impact it could have on his idol image. It worked for him, but it could just as easily not have. It was a risk, one that he clearly wanted to take in order to grow as an artist, regardless of how it would impact his numbers) The point is, success can mean different things to different people and different groups, especially in arts like music and performance, where many people are in it for the art just as much or even more than for fame and celebrity. Seeing fans get so fixated on numbers and achievements can make you lose sight of that. There are so many examples in music history of popular artists who alienated their pop audiences to pursue their own artistic ideas instead (and many became legendary for it in hindsight, once people actually started to see the artistic value). Obviously every fan wants their favourites to do well and is proud of their achievements, and as I said the KPop industry itself is creating these fandom competitions with the way music shows and awards etc. work. But it is also not a sport, where only one team can be the winner and winning is all that matters.There are so many legendary KPop songs that became classics that never won a music show. You wouldn't think that if you only saw the competition as it plays out in real time. It can make going into fandom spaces really unfun when all people seem to talk about is numbers and the next record "we" are aiming for/at risk of losing to another fandom/etc. It is probably inevitable as long as numbers are so important for the industry itself, but it also kind of... hurts the art? And it definitely creates pointless fan wars like online versions of football hooligans beating each other up every weekend, every time there is something to win/lose.

I completely agree! I've been a STAY only since October and I've been met with some pretty nasty things! Like a week into discovering SKZ I commented on a TikTok video calling Chan something dumb like a "cute bean" and people were so quick to be like omg that's disgusting how dare you as if I'd said something horrible?! I've also gone through an experience of trying to find a group to interact with who are also going to BST Hyde Park and this person who I've actually seen on TikTok quite alot made a group and then as soon as she found out I was Chan biased like her, she kicked me from the group because why? She thinks he's "hers"? No clue but it baffles me! I'm lucky now to have found a group of people who are actually so lovely and make me like being a STAY but man, it's rough out there 😭

Thank you for talking about this topic. I feel it is so important and needs to be talked about more. Keep up the good work! Some of us love your reactions, and I'm sorry the toxic fans make you step away sometimes. Music is supposed to be therapy and we should all be able to enjoy it peacefully.

I definitely agree. As someone who has been into kpop for many years, ive seen the good the bad and mostly the ugly. Fortunately, I have learned to ignore the toxicity in the fandoms and just focus on the groups and songs I like

I agree, there is a lot of negativity, very harsh negativity too. It was a slap when I came and was first faced with it, you see really unhinged opinions shared freely, without any accountability. Now, I still want to be happy for my faves, so I work hard to avoid negativity on platforms I use. Report and block, share so others can report and block too, is my life motto. Plus I try to find ppl online who share my view and follow them and that way most of what I see is happy commentary full of joy about their achievements. Ofc it's not always perfect, but there is so much good stuff that I'm willing to stay. At least for now.

I agree with everything you said. I avoided getting into K-pop fandoms since the get go, and only became more vocal over time with Ateez because I felt the fandom wasn’t so toxic and just admire the group so much. As the fandom grows,I’ve seen more of it, but just filter it out. Unfortunately, you can’t sometimes like when people PAY TO CHAT WITH IDOLS JUST TO CRITICIZE THEM OR TELL THEM WHAT TO DO….? (Sorry… had a moment there) I’m an older fan and have been fangirling in the past with non-Kpop entertainers (hi, I am a Glambert) and none of this is new unfortunately. It is just more intense for some larger fandoms, it seems. Anyways… I wish all fandoms well, and enjoy almost every groups’ music. Stay humble & kind… ATINY OUT.

say it louder 📢🗣️👏🏼

Glad that you decided to talk about this bcoz hiding behind a mask of anonymity online now everyone thinks that it is a social norm to criticize, condemn and degrade idols who are ALL working hard in their own ways... The recent false SA allegation incident really shook me and the fact that it was committed by underage girls left me speechless...Such incidents not only ruin the reputation of the idols who worked so hard to be where they are at now but it also discredits and dishonours true SA victims... And also the continuous mobbing of idols at airports and stalking them to their hotels is legitimate criminal behaviour and I hope the agencies stop releasing such info and schedules so that the idols and the common people can travel in peace. I desperately hope those delusional fans realize that idols are actual humans who have their own life and are living their dreams as artists and similarly we all should be doing the same.

When i first time saw name of this video ngl i was scared. Cuz i really dont like this side of ANY fandom like "this one more toxic then other" and staff, this "i need to talk" video scares shit out of me. But here i am and im really glad that i watch ur video. This is really problem and exact reson why i was dont into Kpop for decade (i was not that far tho, in anime shit ahaha) but in 2023 cuz of my job and twitterless life I find myself like a Stay and enjoy it so much!! I know that any fandom have that toxic side, cuz toxic ppl exist everywhere, and im so sorry that i was not wise enough for fall in Kpop years ago, i lost so much i think

THANK YOU! I always appreciate when people open up discussions like this. There’s so much good within these communities, but like you said, if the bad goes unchecked, it sometimes overpowers the good. Thank you again for having this discussion and spreading the awareness. You presented it articulately and made very good points.👍

I just don't communicate with any fandom and it's great

Idols are constantly treated like characters instead of humans

this is the perfect summary of what I wanted to say as someone who has been listening to K-pop since 2010 the whole dynamic of fandom has changed so rapidly into this toxic thing that was not there up to this extent in 2nd and early 3rd gen idol fandoms. this is the reason I have stopped indulging myself in any fandom stuff i enjoy the music and content of the artists and some reaction videos here and there. nowadays everything has turned into a competition like why. I'm glad that you made this video addressing all of the problems. I have seen the hypocrisy of these so-called fans whenever an idol loses their life coz of bullying these people advocate mental health and then these people only go around bullying the idols themselves is so disgusting to me that I can't even type without getting angry. in the past few months, only I have seen so much disgust that I can't even express what has happened to the whole community.

incredible breakdown!

You really summed it up so well! Thank you for putting all this into words in the most respectable way possible. It really puts things into perspective! I seriously hope people learn from this video! It needed to be said!

Yeah you being a creator unfortunately means it will be hard to avoid these parts of the community. Twitter is full of toxicity and rage, tiktok spreads so much misinformation, youtube and reddit can have some of the most vicious voices. Still, it is possibile to moderate your experience, and I really appreciate that you do it even with your comments!

I’ve been in kpop since 2011 and its sad how it’s getting more and more toxic specially for past 3-4 yrs the toxicity is beyond my understanding

OH my goodness thank you!!! whenever i see people talk about the toxicity of kpop fandoms i rarely see them bring up the crazy amount of false info that gets spread around😭 even within the fandom itself, i see the most OUTRAGEOUS conclusions reached from the smallest of things, and ofc misinformation/defamation from 'antis'. great video, truly!!! as shitty and toxic as it is, it does make for an interesting fandom/social behavioural study....but it definitely needs to change lol its such a strange group phenomenon that its kinda terrifying and i can see why ppl are driven away from kpop as a whole as a result of it, bc while some ppl are just here chilling there are many that leave a weird (BAD weird) impression. honestly if u ever have other topics u wanna Video Essay then i'd totally be up to watching them bc u present ur points very nicely, its refreshing for youtube!! also the "ownership" point you made makes me think it comes partly from the infantilisation of idols, that i find very prevalent in certain fandoms... doesn't help that companies encourage such obsessive behaviours and don't do much to protect their artists. i also feel like some specific kpop fan behaviours can be traced back to not exactly racism but some form of it ...but thats a whoooole other can of worms to open anyways yeah, great video!!

Agree with all you said. There is a reason you're the only link I have with the kpop community, you're like a little safe island in the middle of it, not afraid to talk about the bad sh't and ban it from your comment section.

This was the reason I was reluctant to associate myself with Army, BTS fandom even though I'd been a fan since 2016. The toxicity was intense. Tbh, it's counterproductive since it turns people off of the kpop groups themselves. I'd see a lot of hate towards BTS by people who had never even listened to them just because Armys were doing the absolute most. Then I found Seventeen in 2018 and the lack of toxicity among Carats is heartwarming.

Totaly agree!!!!

Everything you said is 100% on point. Such behaviour is not justified by all means.

6:10 this. Nobody should attack a person for not liking a song, especially if they weren’t being super rude or racist or something bizarre like that. Meanwhile, there are reactors out here being slick with insults and completely ignoring the videos they’re watching, not giving a damn about captions/lyrics, not knowing members’ names after a guide and multiple mvs…because they don’t care about anything but views and subs. And they’re growing each day. Christ. The thing is, some of these “toxic” fans could be correct on some instances, but what makes them toxic is that they direct it to the wrong people. Why project on someone for standard reviews when you can call out channels that have been openly problematic? There are literally channels right now that spend their whole time lowkey making fun of the K-pop they watch. And they still upload and fans don’t speak up about it. Just keep requesting songs and begging these random idiots with cameras to like it next time…

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Kpop fandoms are responsible for their own toxicity but we shouldn't overlook how the industry itself encourages these behaviors. The crazy level of parasocialism, the way music show votings are like war zones, the encouraged label loyalty. The enemy should never be each other it should be the industry that burns through idols and fans like empty calories. Sometimes tho people just suck. I hope it gets better.

8:44 I don't wanna say that i disagree here with you, it's rather me wanting to bring a new light upon the matter. Yes, certain people all across the fandoms do feel like they own a certain idol, which is utterly naive and stupid. But I wanna say or rather remind that I don't think that it is entirely their fault. All the companies have been selling this idea of idols being single, forbidding them to date anyone and acting like fans' boyfriends/girlfriends/other in order to 'sell their idol better'. But I'm sure that it is mostly a personality issue because even if the company suggests such things, a normal person should be able to differentiate between fiction and reality.

My advice to you is to stay off all socials if you don’t like the toxicity within the fandoms as it’s always going to be prevalent as long as their are haters, trolls and those that are jealous of those K-Pop Groups that don’t follow the Societal Norms and stay in their lane within Korea and decided to extend their fame Internationally

please react to survival show

These so-called fans will act like they're going into battle for their groups, meanwhile the idols themselves are horrified at their behavior. Stray Kids and Ateez are friends, it's well-documented, and toxic fans will still pit them against each other. A lot of idols looks up to BTS for their cultural impact, yet their toxic fans act as if BTS is somehow a dictatorship to be toppled. They're not doing it for the idols as they claim; they're doing it for themselves, because their lives are sad and they have no healthy outlet for their anger. Touch grass, literally.