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"If Time Had No Beginning" Fay Dowker, Imperial College London - 3/10/21

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Beyond Spacetime

Beyond Spacetime

Күн бұрын

Could the universe have had no beginning? I don’t mean, in raising this question, to deny or throw doubt on Big Bang cosmology and the existence in the past of a hot, dense state of Planckian curvature and temperature. But, in that case, how is the question to be interpreted given that-if we accept the standard cosmology- the Lorentzian manifold structure of spacetime breaks down at the Big Bang? Certainly, the continuum concept of time in our cosmological epoch “begins” at the Big Bang. Can we even ask what happened “before” that? The causal set approach to the problem of quantum gravity provides an arena in which to address the question of origins, in which it makes sense to ask what happened before the Big Bang and in which a clear distinction can be made between models of the universe which are “past infinite” and “past finite”. I will describe work with Stav Zalel and Bruno Bento in which we construct a framework for dynamics for causal sets which can result in past infinite universes.

Пікірлер: 28
@oldskoolozzy
@oldskoolozzy 3 жыл бұрын
Fay is a real inspiration to me. Just like the elegant articulation of her theories in this video; her actual theories have an elegance to them. Her Causal Set Phenomenology article is concise; to the point but also beautifully demonstrates that you don’t need to add unnecessary flamboyance to get your point across. Show evidence, explain the evidence and leave it to your reader to imagine analogies and situations that it may be appropriate to.
@anarios-ryd
@anarios-ryd 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this. Absolutely love Fay.
@robheusd
@robheusd 7 ай бұрын
In the abstract sense, there are a limited number of possibilities for the past/future time line. First a straight line with no begin nor end which is infinite. Second a circle with no begin or end which is finite. Third a line with a begin but no end which is infinite Fourth a line with no begin but with an end which is infinite Fifth a line with a begin and an end which is finite. So, a timeline with no begin or end does not imply that time must be infinite, it could be finite (a circle). Also, a timeline with a begin does not imply that time is finite, just that up to now a finite amount of time has elapsed since the beginning, but future time is infinite. If we would postulate that time is symetric, then possibilities third and four would be impossible. Lastly, notice that when we talk about elapsed time or a measurement of time, this always involves two points on the timeline, and no matter what possibility of timelines proofs to be correct, such a measurement always yields a finite result. In the case of the first possibility (straight line without begin nor end) no matter where we place the two points, the measurement of elapsed time is always finite. We can not place the point at the "begin" since in this timeline, there is no begin point. So, the discomforting possibility of an "infinite amount of time elapsed" does not occur. However, the set of all measurements of time on an infinite timeline without begin or end is indeed infinite. Similar to how the set of all integers is infinite, but no integer itself is infinite.
@eugenebelford4340
@eugenebelford4340 2 жыл бұрын
The thing that really jumped out at me is Causal Set Theory having causal sets (C,
@robheusd
@robheusd 7 ай бұрын
The concept of time - our ordinary understanding of what time is - implies that whatever happens physically happens in space and time. Those are physical events (like atoms smashing into other atoms, photons emitting and being absorbed, etc.) which happen in space and time. But time itself is not an event, it is not even physical, but just denotes our understanding of the rate of change happening relative to some known process (for instance a clock) which is assumed to change in a regular and constant pattern (equal ampunt of elapsed time per cycle). In this respect the concept of time does not allow for time itself to have a beginning, since that would be a physical event happening in space and time, yet time itself is not a physical event.
@frun
@frun 2 жыл бұрын
It seems, the causal order is valid for observers made of 'spacetime atoms'. The events are the quasiparticles' scattering events.
@jakniclesin2526
@jakniclesin2526 2 жыл бұрын
I tried my best to follow this "non-technical" presentation and I was lost almost immediately out the gate.
@scenFor109
@scenFor109 Жыл бұрын
Fay is concise with words. Listen again if you will follow her speech.
@CliffBerg
@CliffBerg 2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating.
@robheusd
@robheusd 7 ай бұрын
@49:44 The "personal abhorance" of a physical infinity is not a good argument pro or contra a begin of time or infinity of time (past and future eternal) - physical reality is the way it is, not the way we like it to be. Excluding a logical possibilty for that reason is counter logic, because the remaining possibilities (either time with a begin or time which loops back on itself) are equally abhorant. Also, if you insist on time not being infinite and have a beginning, the logical conclusion then would be (for symetry reasons) that also the future time can't be infinite. So it would mean that the timeline would consist of a definate beginning and end of time as the only alternative, dismissing all other logical possibiites (see other post). Either that or a timeline that loops back on itself, without begin or end but with a finite amount of elapsed moments.
@dazraf
@dazraf 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this talk. Fay Dowker is a great speaker, specially in explaining complex ideas.
@stephenconnolly1830
@stephenconnolly1830 Жыл бұрын
I am so glad an infinity of real things (matter, the material reality) is abhorrent to physicists as this represents a fundamental paradox in philosophy except in respect of imaginary or metaphysical things like mathematics. Hence there cannot possibly be an infinity of universes (the "multiverse") etc and, as we know, the universe is finite with a beginning.
@declandougan7243
@declandougan7243 Жыл бұрын
Those infinities are not abhorrent to physicists. You misunderstand her point. Infinite information density is what is troublesome, and the standard model makes use of path integrals that, in the abstract, make heavy use of infinite possibilities. We cheat by measuring some real values in order to make these calculations finite. What she is hoping that, perhaps, the reality is very close to this but discrete instead.
@vsotofrances
@vsotofrances 2 жыл бұрын
The nodes of the causal structure could be a special type of multi-vectors?
@virtualvessel0
@virtualvessel0 Жыл бұрын
Had no beginning?? Isn't it the case that, even since Big Bang that only "classical-time" begins, not a defined quantum-time beginning? Great to see progress around quantising Spacetime.
@andyzola
@andyzola Жыл бұрын
Big-Bang was just a horizon event from a local perspective
@davidwilkie9551
@davidwilkie9551 2 жыл бұрын
Hyper-hypo Superspin-spiral Superposition Totality inflated radiance of log-antilog interference with cyclical-dualistic Pi-bifurcation i-reflection containment state(s) => superposition-> density-intensity surface-structure of Spinfoam bubble-modes. Phase boundaries have the ridgity of Number Theory Relativity and interpretation of logarithmicly hyperfluid wave-packaging. A source of perceived paradox.., because spatial structure is positioned by relative-timing ratio-rates Perspective Principle. Tunnelling inclusion-exclusion timing-phase positioning is also AdS/CFT Holographic distribution and Quantum Jumping Sublimation property wave-packaging formation. If you were painting a Watercolour, letting the colour suffuse into the paper and demarking outline boundaries with wax pencil, this is a literal example of how phase-shifting coordination can be illuminated, layed out in perspective projection of the imaginary 3rd rotation of line-of-sight into the picture. So 0-1-2-ness Singularity-point Superspin-spiral Superposition Totality of 0-1-2-3-4..infinity Entanglement is inside-outside presence "in your face" but extends into holography by i-reflection containment in conscious awareness, (with practice. A friend says it has to be "digested")
@davidwilkie9551
@davidwilkie9551 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with explaining Gravity with a rubber sheet Gravity demonstration, it fits the explanation of QM-TIME Completeness cause-effect by demonstrating Quiescence everywhere-when by Radio Circuit AM-FM Communication In-form-ation probability-wave substantiation. I'm unsure how Set Theoretical demonstrations are directly related to the potential beginning-ending of everything-everywhere No-thing here-now-forever, ie WYSIWYG QM-TIME resonance floating in flat-space ground-state No-thing-defined vanishing-into-no-thing eternally. Quantum Logic is pure-math cause-effect motion defining location, ..by Einsteinian Relativity if you choose another version of Quiescent floating point coherence-cohesion, that is module-ation mechanism of Bose-Einsteinian Condensation Form-ing a locus of time-timing @.dt Centre, of Time Duration Timing focusing.., ie relative-timing ratio-rates of resonant probability Quantum-fields motion, is self-defining AM-FM Logarithmic-> empirical Mathematics by default.
@ZishanWazedBegg
@ZishanWazedBegg 2 жыл бұрын
@40:00 how can points in the past are "added" if they are being causally conected. Doesn't it mean we are allowing retro-causation?
@peterpalumbo1963
@peterpalumbo1963 Жыл бұрын
Hyper surface sounds a lot like Newton's. Absolute space. Does Hyper make it different?
@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885
@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 3 жыл бұрын
curvature on time Planckian dimension is noncommutative phase
@websurfer352
@websurfer352 3 жыл бұрын
If time began at a point in pre-existing time then that would not be a true beginning of time!! Right?? But a true beginning of time would have had to have happened at a point with no pre-existing time!! That would be a true beginning of time!! Right??
@eugenebelford4340
@eugenebelford4340 2 жыл бұрын
The confusion is there are regions where causal sets underlie a metric (our familiar Lorentzian spacetime) and regions where the metric is not there, and only the causal set is there. So at time = Planck time (10^-43 seconds), earlier than this, the metric breaks down so there is only a (finite but unknown) number of causal set elements where "before / after" (causation) holds, but "duration" or "distance" is not well defined. So "time" as we think of it goes back only to the Planck epoch and "before" this, there is just some finite but unknown number of causal set elements, so the "beginning" if you like is some minimal number of causal set elements, which are antecedent to some other causal set elements and at some point up the chain a "metric" can be superimposed as a course grain (high level) model. So the "spacetime metric" we live in is sort of a high level approximation for the underlying "reality" of causal sets but this high level approximation only holds in certain regions, it does not hold at the big bang, big crunch (if such a thing exists) nor at the center of black holes, in those regions, the only way to physically describe what is going on is with the causal set (at least this is how I understand it).
@robheusd
@robheusd 7 ай бұрын
No, that would be just a contradiction. If it is said that time had a begin, it would be the case that time existed at a point in time in which time is assumed to not yet exist. Contradiction!
@davidwilkie9551
@davidwilkie9551 2 жыл бұрын
It does NOT "make sense" relevant to Act-uality and pure-math Logarithmic QM-TIME Singularity, (that is the reason for the Measurement Problem), in terms of AM-FM time-timing, Mathematical Disproof Methodology, Eternity-now Interval, Holographic Equilibrium.
@robheusd
@robheusd 7 ай бұрын
What??
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