it's rare to see anyone making so much sense when discussing high end audio gear and EQ at the same time. a correct use of EQ is almost magic in audio reproduction and the way to achieve truly high fidelity. thanks for the video tyll and bob.

Finally someone who hears the SR009 the way I do, everytime I want to share my view on the SR009 on head-fi I get stigmatised for not know "how to hear"

Mr Bob Katz, thanks so much for the blatant honesty regarding headphones such as the HE-1000 & SR-009. Finally, someone with the resume and experience to command that people stop and reconsider what they are (and aren't) really hearing. Lookin forward to part 2!!

HE-1000 disqualified? Stunned... didn't expect that.

That was a fun video! Thanks guys.

I’d love to hear Bob’s opinion on the Focal Utopia headphones...absolutely love them here.

Awesome video and Bob's comments!!! Where is Day 2?!

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on Hifiman HE-6, especially modified.

I would love to hear his thoughts about the HD 600 as well. May not be in the same league as these big hitters but as far as neutrality goes it's about as close as you can get in that price range

Part 2! Part 2! We want Part 2!

remember guys, bob said he's judging the headphones by their tonality and frequency response. All using solid state too. Don't worry too much. He even said he didn't like anything he heard.

He's a hard critic, I would love to hear his views on $1000+ headphone cables, :D

Mr. Katz just popped the HE-1000 hype train!

these are cool.

where do you guys think headphones can go from here? since you said all these headphones suck (which I don't disagree with) how can headphones become better. sounds like a good column to write tyll.

lol, so many setups just got rekt rko-ed Nice commentary on high end headphones. I like this guy.

They seem to clash and keep talking over eachother.

I think there was a missing modded HE-6? ;)

There is a point I cant understand. If all these headphones doesn't meet his standards so what he is listening to?

It would be great if you could invite Sean Olive also..

What software do you all recommend for EQ?

On EQ-ing...you can do A LOT when you learn how to do it properly, and can make certain cheap headphones sound like far more expensive ones with some tweaking. I made a DIY headphone that cost me 100 dollars in materials in total (+ some actual work in CAD programs and woodworking) , using Superlux EVO681 drivers, my own designed and 3D printed angled driver baffle, oak wooden earcups, pleather memory foam earpads, good quality Sommer Audio cable (the same as on T1's) and using a headband of some old Sennheiser HD438 I had, etc. Stock it sounds good, better than Superlux, but it's a bit low mid and bass heavy, bass is lacking control (HD681 is naturally a bassy headphone), there's a certain resonance around 4k, and highs are a bit sharp and very uneven when the earcup is untreated, it basically sounds like a 100 dollar headphone, ok but nothing special. BUT, using some dampening materials and tuning holes their stock performance improves, BUT, what totally transforms their performance is EQ-ing. Not just by ear EQ-ing, but a properly done method of EQ-ing one headphone to meassure EXACTLY like another. After a lot of tweaking and meassuring, by basically using a meassuring platform to actually go through each and every frequency played in foobar2000 (20, 25, 31, 40, 50, etc. all the way up to 20000hz), and meassuring how the Beyerdynamic T1 performs at eachfrequency, writting down the values, and then EQ'ing my diy headphone to meassure EXACTLY the same (down to 0.5 db) as the T1's on the same platform, same mic, DAC, amp, etc. (all variables but the headphones themselves are identical), I got it to sound virtually as good as my Beyerdynamic T1, and better than my HD650's, K701's, DT880's, etc. Not better in terms of sound signature, because that is absolutely identical to the T1, I'm talking about technical performance..speed, clarity, detail, transient response, distortion, etc. I know frequency response is not the ONLY thing that matters, but in this case it basically does what I want it to, because the entire headphone design is very EQ-able, meaning the basic design is done in a way that makes the driver itself produce the sound with as little interference from the rest of the headphone as possible. My 3D baffle is more solid than the T1 baffle because of how it's designed, I can basically stand on the angled part and it won't break, it's incredibly strong, yet very light, and the entire design is less prone to resonance due to properly dampened earcups which also have what is basically a set of small holes on the wood on strategic places that help me to tune the sound,. and also make it semi-open. And when I say it sounds as good as a T1, trust me, I know what I'm talking about here because I've basically listened to nothing but the T1's in the last 3 years when it comes to criticial listening, so I know EXACTLY how they sound and what they do, there are songs that I've heard on T1's at least 200 times, and know every single smallest nuance in them by heart, and have heard those headphones out of countless sources and amps, and in certain aspects, my headphone is actually better, it delivers sub bass with more authority (not louder, just more visceral and authoritive, and I dare to say tighter and better separated from the rest of the sound than on the T1) and has a more holographic soundstage sometimes, both deeper, more 3D and more spacious (due to slightly bigger space between ears and drivers than on T1's, and a slightly bigger angle and a more forward position of the driver), and overall the sound is equally smooth and effortless as on the T1's, without a hint of grain, sharpness, responances, etc. When I listen to it, it blows my mind that what is producing the sound are a pair of drivers from a 40 dollar headphone, and I know nobody will believe me, but I don't care at this point, since now I have the power to make myself a headphone with flagship performance for just 100 dollars just using a 3D printer and basic woodworking, and just by using cheap off the shelf parts as long as they're technically not shit and have decent resolution. Basically, EQ-ing turns this headphones from something that sounds like it's worth around 100 dollars to something I'd have absolutely no issue living with instead of the T1's, because they sound virtually as good. And it's just an early prototype. Already in the process of desiging a 0.2 version that will feature active on-board DSP circuitry (not an actual amp, just processing) that will enable me to build-in the EQ settings through connecting the headphones to the computer via USB, instead of having to use the EQ's inside software,that will basically make the headphones sound the same no matter what I plug them into, regardless of EQ setting. This is basically what all the companies who build active noise cancelling headphones do.... Bose, Beats, etc. Their headphones are, when looked at from an engineering perspective, and looking at parts they use, pure garbage, no other way to put it. Poorly designed baffles that are weak as F, very resonant earcups made out of cheap thin plastic, and drivers that you can buy from China in high volumes for 1 dollar each. But they use a lot of active DSP's that basically hide that, and enable the headphones to sound far better. Ever heard the Beats Studio 2.0? They sound pretty good out of the box. Ever heard them without active noise cancelling enabled, which is not possible without irreversible modding? Nope? Don't bother. They sound like a 10 dollar headphone, unlistenable, complete garbage. But with really heavy processing, the natural faults of those headphones are fixed. I'm sure the same is true for Bose and other ANC headphones which don't work without active circuitry inside them enabled, because they'd be too bad without that circuitry. Now, those headphones use drivers that sell for 1-2 dollars a piece on certain chinese ebay-like website, and are very cheaply made, yet using these methods with active DPS, they manage to sell for 300-400. I'm using much better drivers than those, far better engineered and built enclosures, etc. So it makes sense why my prototype works as well as I suspected it would, but didn't really believe it would until I actually tried it. Soon I'm getting a small CNC machine which will enable me to machine aluminium and wooden parts up to a much higher standard, will use my families business to make leather earpads, etc. and then release the concept to the public. Sound-wise, I'm 9/10 of the way there, just have to work on the physical aspect now. Give it 2-3 months.

To what DAC is Tyll referring when he says "Yggdrasil's little brother"? Also, what is M3 that Bob brought with him?

amazing analyses by the master Bob Katz.... "Expensive doesn't mean better"

And btw I'm so glad Bob talked about EQ-ing, because so many times people just laugh at the idea of EQ-ing a high end headphone. "Oh you're got get distortion, oh you can't do it properly, it's not a proper playback anymore, it's not a hifi thing to do" and similar crap. Which is all not true if you do it properly. Some people would rather listen to a shitty headphone knowing that it's stock than having to accept the fact that it's not as good as it can be out of the box. I've turned so many headphones from mediocre into amazing by just EQ-ing them, don't even need to do physical mods to get good results. Especially when it comes to cheap headphones. Stuff like Sennheiser HD202 is so freaking EQ-able, that for 30 dollars everyone should buy one, with some playing, you can get it to sound (and meassure) like a M50X, HD380, DT770, Momentum, etc. basically headphones that cost 4-6 times more. Just don't ever EQ by ear. You'll never do it right ,and you'll never do it correctly. Small changes by ear can be done, but transforming a headphone with EQ wont work, you'll play for 2 hours with EQ sliders, find something you like AT THAT MOMENT, and tomorrow you'll hate it. The changes are sometimes simply too small and they're always acumilative, you can't adjust one slider until you like it and then move to anther frequency, because moving that one will screw your perception of the previous ones. Use a dummy head or some other setup with a microphone to match the frequency responses of two headphones, and you'll see that you can basically make any headphone sound virtually identical to any other headphone (if they're the same physical type and roughly the same quality, you won't make a 20 dollar closed on-ear headphone sound like a 2000 dollar open back around ear one). It's amazing what proper EQ-ing can do, you don't just modify the sound signature, you can make the sound deeper, more open, spacious, improve imaging, etc...and it's especially good if you go really hardcore and EQ each channel separately, that way you eliminate driver matching problems, which are always present, even some high end headphones can have some pretty apparent differences in response, that's why even if you like how your headphones sound, sometimes it's good to just EQ-match both channels so that they are absolutely perfectly matched, that means a lot for imaging and the sense of a holographic soundstage, more than most people assume.

I will never get used to the name Schiit.

He didn't talk about Abyss!

Let this guy talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed on the 009. The SR-007 (specifically the mk1 version) is far better.

Tyll, I think you Should EQ all the headphones you review. EQ is available and makes things better as long as it's done in a transparent manner. Since this is the case, what you should be focusing on more is the other parts of the headphones. Soundstage, transients, resonances, comfort, construction, etc. This is where headphone character really lies. If you can't get the headphone to an optimal tonality with EQ, then of course that's relevant, but if it's possible to EQ the headphone to the desired curve, then tonality is no longer the major topic of interest.

Thanks for saving my money on he1000.

It felt like vindication when Bob started talking about EQ'ing headphones. I've been doing it for years and have been posting about how to surgically EQ headphones to achieve ideal accuracy/neutrality in forums like head-fi and other places. There were people who poopoo'd the idea, but I know what I hear and my EQ'd headphones sound absolutely amazing compared to the stock sound, and I also save money by not having to buy every new variant or updated model because often the newer/more expensive model's sound could be achieved or surpassed by EQ'ing the older/cheaper model (of course, there are some improvements beyond frequency response such as transients, imaging, distortion, etc., but frequency response is the most important factor).

Please, someone lend a KGSSHV Carbon to Bob Katz to fully enjoy his pair of 007, the difference is massive compared to the KGSS (+20 years old design). 007 MK2 with Spritzer mod and a Carbon is UNBEATABLE.

How Mr. Katz missed a career in diplomacy is certainly a mystery... Interested in learning more about the EQ potential of various setups, perhaps with a bit more mature, less polemic discussion.

Montana = great