It's interesting how these "independent" reviews like the ignore that Shimano uses a proprietary channel/language to communicate with head units. This means that they can with a single letter remove the right for any brand to communicate with the shifters.

I would stick to the 11-speed mechanical shifter. Electronic shifters are adding complexity without any performance benefit. Also, it's bumping up the price significantly. In my opinion, the groupset manufacturers are pushing electronic options in the market to compensate for the inherited design flaw of the 12-speed groupset. It would be very difficult to tune a 12-speed mechanical shifter since the spacing in the freehub didn't increase for the extra one cog. So it requires extreme precision, and that can only be achieved by the electronics.

The grumpy old men, technology challenged and the fruggle cheapskates out there may object to electronic shifting, and probably those horseless carriages too. But having owned just about every major generation and type of bike and/or groupset, I am 100% sold on the advantages and real world value of electronic shifting and hydraulic disc brakes on road bikes; at least for above average to advanced riders. And I'm not fussed about the value for money equation either - there's a lot worse things to spend your savings on. The one thing I will add is that this review totally missed the incredible difference Hyperglide Plus makes vs. standard gearing. I've had SRAM and the old Di2 and the shifting on my next gen Ultegra version is worth every penny, and that includes the upgrade cost over 105 too. The speed, smoothness and reliability of shifts alone would be worth the investment, but being able to shift under full load is friggen fantastic!!! I'm a big and powerful guy and if I miss-judged a climb and didn't down shift ahead of the hill, I used to be screwed - witb SRAM, old Di2 or a manual groupsets. But not the nex gen Di2. I ride in an area with rolling and mixed length hills, and this new system has been a true game changer. One other niggly point, but which most people agree on, is that Rival looks cheap, especially compared to its upscale siblings, whereas the 105 looks amost as good as Dura Ace, and I also wonder how durable Rival is compared to the rest of the field. Bottom line...105 is better than Rival, but the jump to Ultegra is the better choice (doubly so if you consider the better brake modulation on Ultegra and Dura Ace groupos). This is even true if budget is an big issue. Skip a trip or two to the pub and put the money towards electronic shifting and the new Ultegra. If you're even a semi-serious cyclists, you will not regrett the sacrifice;-).

@bikeradar - it might be worth considering a think on the scoring systems here. There were several cases where 105 won marginally, or was caveated, but still got the same benefit as the clearer wins for SRAM. I'm wondering if you should have half-points for those cases. As it happens, I wouldn't bother with the 105. Any wins it has a marginal.

@@roberthenri9945 Thanks for the comment, ability to shift under load is indeed quite important (at least for me), and somehow I haven't heard it mentioned in other reviews. Is it true that Di2 also has some auto-trim function for the front to avoid chain rub on the go, while etap doesn't and fully relies on the initial setup of the front derailleur? I'm considering an upgrade and am torn between the Ultegra Di2 and Force etap, incredibly difficult to decide...

Confirmed, this was wrongly advised in the video, but to be honest, Shimano brakes have always just been the best, especially when paired with XT rotors. SRAM make allot of noise, don’t have the same feel.

In theory, sure. But tuning it is a PITA.

Tuning mechanical is a piece of pi$$.

I should also say I prefer the Shimano brakes.

Also, Rival can be used with thick gloves

More adaptable to thick gloves may be etap's only advantage. I'll be sure to kit out my next fat bike with it and ride it in the snow.

You can’t purchase rival with chainrings of your choice, so you need to budget in the cost to upgrade from compact to full size chainrings. The cassette mounts to a xdr free hub, which is pricey to buy for your existing set of wheels, if your wheel manufacturer has stock for your model (i believe there is a hack to make it work on an xd hub with a space though). The flat top chain is worst in class for friction, and it’s soft, won’t last nearly as long as Shimano, so prepare to replace drivetrain components often.

What's the different in look between wireless (SRAM) and semi wireless (shimano, wires going in the seat tube to the RD and FD? Is it about that 3 centimeter of wiring?

Rival is a boat anchor in terms of weight.

No kidding, I know guys who ride rim brake 10 + year old bikes who can drop most 10,000$ bike club riders.

Well I don’t know about that. The 1000 euro bike will outclass the 10000 euro bike any day if the rider is stronger. You don’t get much speed at all for your money so you can be happy at your chosen price point. These videos though of course feature the expensive stuff. It’s like car shows on the tv, the are about Porches and Maseratis, not Skodas and Hyundais.

That wasn't ever a joke, I just always had a cheap car

“Cycling is now a luxury elite activity” I beg your pardon. But, are you saying we all have to have electronic shifting to ride our bikes? Can’t you be content with what you have? Just get out there and ride whatever you want? If you are unable to do that, you need a long hard look at yourself.

People looking at luxury build bikes and ignore all the affordable bikes called it's an expensive sport, guess what, get yourself an entry level bike with maybe Shimano claris that cost you around 500-600 ish , boom, you'r in the sport but not that "LUXURY" I guessed.

👀

Terrible shouting over 0,001mm s. Horribic.

Good point. I didn’t think of battery swap. If rear derailleur battery dies mid ride, just swap it with the front battery. And yes, I agree with everything else you mentioned.

You don't need a pocket full of spare batteries with Di2, just a quick charge a couple of times per year. But remembering their own phone number can be a challenge for some...so extra batteries might be their only hope😂

@@roberthenri9945 I've read several reviews of experienced bike riders who forgot to charge their Di2 battery, because you so seldom need to charge them. It's only natural. Sram batteries on the other hand are super easy to take out, and in case one runs out you can swap it out with the other one, whereas my understanding is that with Di2 you're toast

Try updating a vintage bike with SRAM that now only makes disc groupsets... Maybe with Campa, but not with Shimano / SRAM these days.

@@qdboutNo you're not 'toast'. you get a warning when battery is at 10% and only your RD will keep working (in order to get you home, which is a sensible limitation). So you're clearly talking nonsense.

I'm baffled that batteries weren't mentioned. I have eTap and for this alone I'd do it all over again. You basically can never run out of battery, by swapping the front and rear if the rear runs out : worst case scenario is that you go home without a front derailleur.

Shimano groupsets have a warning at 10% battery level and the FD won't work (all battery left will go to the RD). So that's about the same principle. It gets you home.

And zero maintenance

Ha, wait until you talk too long term AXS owners about battery-range fatigue, worst feeling to have when racing. There is a good reason why Amazon is full of multi battery charger accessories for AXS, and don’t forget the button batteries in the shifters. Cables for me and a hefty sized central battery makes more sense.

Yes

And a downhill

I seem to have to opposite experience from you. I use force axs and my friend has Ultegra and his brakes are always making noises while mine doesn't

@@nokia6800 Cheers for the input! With literally one sample size (of disc and sram) within people i know, my view may be a bit warped. Likely sram also fixed some of their design flaws with the axs generation

Find a better mechanic

@@noahhalbfoster6892 I'm the mechanic. The bike shop where I live can't even true a wheel. The pistons in the brake lever don't move as well as they should, seems to be a known issue after some mileage, but carefully reducing the diameter of the plastic ring is a risky step when replacement parts are unavailable and/or expensive

@@LordFata I have Rival 1 (gen 1) on my CX bike and haven't had any clearance issues yet, are you keeping ontop of cleaning the pistons with IPA then DOT fluid? The other alternative could be swapping out just the caliper for an aftermarket one (Hope are pretty good), saves $$$.

that's like once every 2-3 months and the bike is in the garage anyway, but OK.

What failed on the front mechs?

I'm a mechanic and can confirm these experiences are common. SRAM is good about warrantying things because good lord do they need to be...

SRAM = Land Rover, Shimano = Toyota. Toyota has zero emotion to the driving experience, but will outlast you, land rovers are beautiful and fun to drive over weekend, when they aren’t in the garage being repaired during the week 😆

​@@MrJonas2255 I just ordered an Orbea Orca today. It's a husband wife duo and they literally refused to sell me a SRAM equipped bike. They said this exact same thing, which really surprised me. I've had SRAM Force on another bike and had zero problems.

so SRAM has larger gear jumps (smaller front chainrings). Not good.

When the first point was awarded for "slightly higher rear shift speed that you would barely notice on the road" but talked up the clutch in the Sram but then ignored it, I thought in my he must be setting this up for a draw 😄

@@smuy3782 hahaha 😆 at least he picked a groupset at the end. As soon as I see these scoring reviews I cringe.

Cant risk the ad shilling for Sram and Shimano at the same time when the new update comes around.

@@yarlon2014 100% right

All New levers have adjustment nowadays.

im 50 and have used Shimano my entire life, I got a santa cruz stigmata last year with rival, it took a few rides, you get used to it very quicky

I rode Shimano forever when I first started road cycling. I switched to SRAM well over a decade ago and have loved SRAM ever since. I have nothing against Shimano and would try them out again and would easily ride them........just prefer SRAM overall. You have to get use to either as the shifting goes but I suspect each keeps close tabs on the other so which ever group set you get, they are close in comparison in all reality and comes to personal preference at the end of the day.

According to Warren - "60 hours for Rival AXS - though only takes 45 minutes to charge. Shimano claim around 1000km for di2 which in practice means I charge mine around every 4-6 weeks"

@@bikeradar the 1000km looks better since it's bigger absolute number but I would think it's comparable since 60 hours at about 16.6 kph (or 12.5 mph) works out to about 1000km also. An average of 16.6 kph seems doable for many folks this price range (& higher) unless you ride in some very hilly areas.

Because ya bloody well need to 😂

As a separate purchase - September 2023 (!!) Apparently they are prioritising/hoarding them for OEM complete bikes which includes 105 and upcoming GRX.

Dont buy chinese!!

Dont buy chinese if u value ur future

So a 1x decision is pretty clear then! Not to mention SRAM’s huge choice of cassettes

Why? It's no harder to work on. I have both and find Sram system much easier to bleed.

@@smuy3782 It's corrosive and very difficult to not spill.

It'll be corrosive if you don't rinse it off if you spill it. It only needs to be rinsed away with water and you don't even need to rush. It's not like battery acid. Surely you clean up the spilt mineral oil too?

I get you are sarcastic, but hey who says that? Everyone knows that a stronger rider is faster ever if he/she rides a cheaper bike. These videos though, of course feature the new expensive not so important stuff. Otherwise they’d have nothing to talk about or show.

They had to even it up