Do you agree that fully internal cable routing for every bike is a step too far? Or is every watt precious to you? Let us know in the comments below!

Yes , decided to stick with my old bike due to the ease of maintenance. Getting parts is another thing 😥

To me the main reason for external cables that it allows the rider to choose any stem or handlebar available on the market. A really dialed in fit is way more important then any gains offered by Aero handlebars or internal cables. Add to that the ease of maintenance on external cables and it becomes self evident this trend is a step backwards. I also think in balance Rim brakes are a better choice a road bike. Guess I'm old school. I prefer my ten-year-old road bike to anything that could buy now.

Next : 1. Standardized BB 2. Universal Derailleur hanger

Look at that, a video that I completely agree with. Anyone who works on bikes will agree with you Simon.

I do all the maintenance on my bikes. Fully-internal routing would drive me nuts, I'm fine with a few cables around the handle bars.

Love fully internal cables, but that said I do use hydraulic brakes and though I still have cable shifting, I have not found that the bends have hampered gear changes at all. I built my bike myself and find maintenance relaxing though. I love the feeling of getting everything completely neat and totally cable-managed. I don't care about any supposed performance gains, but I do just love the look, the ease of washing the bike, and the convenience when mounting on a car or carrying up stairs to my office.

Another good honest vid, cheers! Yep, it has. Put a complex to maintain system on the lower price bikes kind of goes against why you'd buy a lower end price. More maintenance cost at the local bike shop, more down time when it needs sorted. I'll stick with my easily understandable and easily maintained Fully External Cable system!

Rim brakes mechanical dura ace on my tcr, cables hanging everywhere complete perfection 👌🏻. Keep those 3 watts under extreme circumstances an I’ll keep my 6.2 kg tcr

I agree 100%. I got a Chinese bike that had internally routed cables. For they initial assembly, I did the internal cables and everything was good... Once I had to swap out the housings or cables, I couldn't bear the thought to spend HOURS AND HOURS to do all that b.s. again...

Internal routing is definitely a bad idea. Not just the added complication and maintenance hassle, but also the difficulty in getting fit right. Fit has to be the most important criteria for everyone.

It's possible that there are performance to gain from fully internal routing of the cables. I would say that I prefer them just because it looks so damn good. Choices in life are made not only with logic but also with emotions.

Well done BR. Integration makes for a bike fitting disaster. We used to be able to throw on a cheap stem from CRC or Wiggle to fine tune position…no longer with these setups.

I completely agree. As someone on the edge of fit for traditional sizes, the lack of adjustment that comes with integrated cockpits kills the idea for me

Bike shops can now charge for four hours of labor on new cable installations instead of half an hour just 10 years ago...

The negative aero effect of a couple of cable housings is next to nothing when compared to the human mass on the bike. Riders clothing and helmet alone are a bigger impact on the overall system of rider+bike.

I repair my bikes myself and don't want the hassle of dealing with fully integrated cables. I agree with everything you said and also the all in one handlebars that have the stem built in (whatever they are called ) are ridiculous as you can't tweak your bike fit. This is also a problem if you want to sell your bike as you would have to sell it to someone with the exact same body dimensions as you. This is just creating more waste as people can't resell their old bikes easily. The bike industry is getting worse with their proprietary parts when they should be doing the opposite . So it's a no from me.

As a racer who’s built like a rugby player rather than a waif-like climber, and who has broken LOTS of frames and cockpit components,the thought of ANY extra holes in my frame and especially handlebars (!!!) makes me cringe. Not to mention the extra hassle of servicing internal cables and the ridiculous costs these add to a new frame, just so some weekend punter can shave 5” off his best time around the block…all this makes internal routing a big NO to me!

Seemingly, everyone wants internal routing. I occasionally go on bike forums and often see where someone has bought an entry level to mid-level bike with mechanical shifting which didn't come from the factory without fully internal routing. Lots of people go to the trouble to change it over to fully internal. I would think that it would sacrifice shifting quality. They want the cleaner look and I guess too they want it to look higher end than it really is. I really think that manufacturers are actually responding to demands on this one.

I think this episode really missed the mark on a largest downside internal routining: stress concentrations from HOLES in components undergoing bending stress, as well as wear/material extrusion from housing/component contact.

Bottomline.. I still Love the clean look of Fully integrated 😁

I’m happy with my 11 speed ultegra mechanical rim brake bike.

All I can say is that idc I love cycling EVERYTIME I ride my bike I'm always smiling even though I'm going through rough times I love cycling❤️🚴

Internal cable routing has indeed gone way too far. I do not own internal cable routed bikes. A bike that needs to be reliable, easy to service such as a commuter bike or a touring bike etc should definitely not be complicated by unnecessary hidden cables. Modern Internal cabling is the application of over engineering inflicted on the bicycle, a thing of relative simplicity.

For me it's just personal. I just want my bike to look as clean and simple as possible. I don't mind the harsh maintenance since I do it on my own and only do it once a month. I do enjoy fiddling with my bike, a lot.

If it weakens the head tube/stem interface, it’s a no go. Having a few cables showing isn’t going to kill you.

Rim brakes and non integrated cables are gold

Totally agree, fully internal routing harms mechanical shifting and adds a lot of head ace on service. Therefore I ordered Giant TCR which I can service myself

I agree with what you are saying .if you are racing on a pretty good amateur level or you are doing ITTs, that small savings helps. If you are not ,and you are just out there having fun. WHY?. Not to mention it used to take me about 5 mins to replace someone’s cable for 15-20$, now it takes me over an hour for a lot more money, and having to explain to the owner why I’m charging them so much more. Total pain in the ass.

It's nice to look at for sure, but when things need fixing, then you're in for a challenge, changing dropbar, brifter, things that you can do easily by yourself on external wired system..

One of the biggest drawbacks I can see of fully internal cable routing is the lack of opportunity for the Average Joe home mechanic to access entry-level servicing of their own bike! For many riders, being able to do some simple maintenance on their beloved machine is a part of the rewarding experience of cycling. 3 watts seems a trivial amount of gain at the cost of that simple pleasure.

I built my aero Winspace T1500D bike fully external, only because it's wayyyy more simple to fit it in a bike case for travel !

I think people who think ICR is a good idea should have to build bikes equipped with it so they understand what their mechanics go through. I also think equipping a Tourney group bike with ICR is absurd. It's both cheaper than any bike I want to deal with regularly, and more complex than any bike I want to be replacing parts on regularly.

Giant is a very conservative company …. For them to decide that the new 2021 TCR (a big deal for them) was not going to have internal routing was a shock to many …. But if you LIVE with a bike you really don’t want the whole internal hassle ….. Home mechanics nightmare.

Couldn't agree more. I intentionally bought a lower spec bike just to get away from internal cable routing

Cutting cable housing is a lost art! When ex. Cables are symetrical and done right it looks as good as no cables Imo

Great vid, nice to see BR giving some good critical feedback to the industry.

I am with you. That was not always the case. I really don’t care about the watts. I love the esthetics of it most. But as someone who likes to travel with the bike, and in doing so I have to disassemble the cockpit to do so, added to the many recalls happening due to internal routing of cables, I have let this phantasy go. I have thus, embraced simplicity over the beauty of clean lines… :)

I agree with you, if you arent racing then serviceability should take first priority

It’s a stupid idea. The performance gains are so small that they’re barely there at all and less than you’d get from shaving your legs. Maintenance is much more complex. The risk of undetected damage to hydraulic lines, shifting cables or wires and even headset forks makes it dangerous as well.

Fine, until you need to replace a cable. Or re-cable/re-hose a whole frame. Then the labour charge goes up by 50-100%.

Internal cable routing on entry level bikes is a bad idea unless entry level cyclists are prepared to pay extra fees for service. I'm speaking from the perspective of a mechanic. Internal routing is a huge waste of time in the shop and therefore a liability for your LBS. The person in charge of intake needs to set the right rate and have a serious talk with the owner of the bike who wanted the fancy, tidy cables. If you want tidy, you're gonna have to pay. Otherwise, you are hurting your mechanic and the shop. And as for home mechanics on this job, it is unlikely that most people can figure it out, considering that it involves the headset, handlebars, downtubes and often the BB as well. I've had bikes come in with internal routing through the BB that was done incorrectly. The housing had whittled/ground the crank axle away until it snapped. Always get a pro to do your internal routing. There is so much that can go wrong.

Performance is not everything. The aesthetic of the bike really improves with internal cable routing. Besides, cable noise is also eliminated with this technology. I hate cables hit each other on a rough road and create noise.

Agreed. It's one of the reasons I decided to build a giant TCR. Some internal routing to keep it tidy but still easy to build and maintain. Good on Giant for making the decision on that design.

Great point. For our British weather, do you think having hidden cables weigh more than having exposed wires ? I think I will stick with my non internal wired Ribble bike.

Mechanics hates internal cabling and engineers who designed them

i know some guys running on external cabling but still strong and win races compared to riders with bikes with internal routings

Well after eBikes came out and everyone decided it be smart and route the cables up and over the motor so you have to drop the motor to route a new cable is some car manufacturing BS! Especially as a mechanic! Customer, can you install a new shifter cable? Yes that will be $5 in parts and $100 in labor. Customer WTF why? Oh we have to uninstall your motor 👍. As a racer track side, nothing more fun then missing your race start cause your trying to run a new brake line and fighting the internal routing.

Next thing you know they'll be fully sealed and have proprietary tools and parts to prevent the right to repair or at least make it difficult to repair like what Apple does. Let's hope not

It's awesome until you get the maintenance bill. What was once a 10 min job becomes hours.

The internal cables often require a proprietary integrated stem and handlebar, limiting the choices for customization for the rider. I'm confident none of my riding is in those "extreme conditions". I'm too slow 🐌! The external cables on my 2017 Domane are fine with me.

Have aero bikes gone too far????! When will Simon admit lightweight beats aero in every form of cycling? How much did BIG AERO pay BikeRadar for this video?

What are these ‘extreme conditions’ mentioned? The savings are likely to be nearer 1watt (if anything at all) for the majority of weekend warriors.

Difficult one. It does look great and having trickle down technology means that even club run riders can enjoy looking and feeling good on the bike. The ease of working on the bike is a difficult trade off

I feel like bikes actually haven’t added enough tech. For the $5k and up range you should be getting wireless shifting by default and bike computers should be included. Bike tech isn’t behind necessarily but manufacturers can and should do more to integrate it all.

Yup, I'm a shop owner and I refuse to sell internally routed bikes. Not just the pain to assemble but a pain to offer a quick bike fit and in many cases causing issues with shifting performance. Explaining to most customers that their shifting sucks due to the routing is awkward. I shouldn't have to explain that a multi million bike dollar company designed a bike that made shifting work like garbage. I would personally only do the super-clean look if I was using electronic shifting and would still prefer a bit of exposed brake lines to not have that feeling that the bars want to self-center and resist turning efforts.

This has hit the nail on the head for me. I need to replace the headset bearings on my Lapierre eSensium but the cabling is internally routed through the top of the headset. I understand that to remove the top bearings the brake and gear cables need to be removed and the front brake bled after reassembly. Way beyond my capabilities so what is often described as a straightforward job now entails a visit to my LBS.

It has gone too far, it's neat no more! Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking

It’s our fault as consumers. If buyers didn’t buy them the makers wouldn’t make them. Also, I’d argue most people like it not for watts, but simply for aesthetics (it looks better, makes the front end cleaner for light and camera fittings and prevents rub marks on the paint job)

I tell you another irritating trend. Big lettering on bars and stems. Seatpost also. Besides different diameters it's hard to mix and mach them if not from same brand.

Internal routing may be great for pros and those chasing marginal gains but it is a royal pain for the home mechanic.

Just did a full replacement of cables and housing on a 9 speed dura ace orbea orca with full external cables, what a dream to work on! Shifts and brakes crisply, and it was remarkably easy compared to all the new road bikes I work on *sigh*

Internal in the frame as they get to the top and downtube if you must, but not at the headtube and bars and stem please! Too much hassle.....

I get why they're standardizing. It's easier and cheaper to mass manufacture one kind of standard feature across all bike tiers, call it a new beneficial feature, and charge more for it.

The likes of your channel, show of these nice bikes and the latest tech. Don’t cry when everybody wants one.

i appreciate this video for being ao honest and very informative of what significance hidden cables can do and the reasons why and why it is not needed for the one who is not an extreme rider like me too

Nicely coloured wire housings look better than no visible cable to me!

Less flexibility to setup bars and stems, extra hassle, extra cost and extra time to work it with no significant benefit to non competitive cyclist. Leave it fully internal cable routing on a race bike, TT or Tri-bike only.

What’s the point if we can’t get the fit right? Seen any integrated bar and stem with 140mm long and 36 wide? Exactly.

Well said. ICR is a pain in the. It is also one of the reasons for the death of .mechanical shifting, for the reasons you gave about the tight bends. I do not race, and missing out on 1mph on a down hill is no big deal to me. I like the look of a well run, clean routed cables, shows a higher level of attention to detail. ICR is also the reason for the push of disc brakes.(bends of the cables) and wireless shifting.

Much like 90% of the so-called "new technologies" becoming standard in the road bike world in the past few years, full cable integration comes with: - a hefty price tag (oh well, this one's quite obvious) - added weight (directly and indirectly) - more proprietary standards (and lack of compatibility between brands and with older generations) => harder to replace components individually and harder to constantly upgrade components on your bike - more complex (and time consuming) maintenance and installation (sometimes requiring special tools that cost a lot of money, rendering them less accessible to the individual cyclist who wants to service their own bikes) - technical "side effects" (in this case, mostly due to the sharp cable angles) that force you to adopt other technologies (electronic shifting, hydraulic brakes) when making the switch and, quite unsurprisingly, also justifying the existance of those other technologies - last, but not least, laughable performance gains that are simply outweighed by the extra cost and aforementioned penalties in the case of 80-90% of the road bike users out there, especially those for whom even 3000€ is way too much money to pay for a bike Honestly, the only people who really benefit (statistically speaking) from this are: - (pro) racers to whom 5W will make the difference between winning or losing a race - bike shops and mechanics, as the more complex the maintenance, the less likely it is for the average cyclist to do it 100% at home - of course, the bike industry

Old Vid, but still great. I see a similar problem with Aero/D-Shaped seatposts. Nearly all of them are proprietary and most, if not all have setback. For me personally to get a proper fit, setback seatposts don't work (long legs, short torso). I have built enough bikes over my 17 years of road riding/racing to know. As a result, I now have to flat-out disqualify otherwise interesting frames in my next build because they all push proprietary aero seatposts with no zero offset options.

Mechanic here. Internal cables aren't hard to work on, unless you're incompetent. As a rider, it's so much better, you can't snag a cable either riding or in transit. It doesn't rub the paint off your frame. It's much quieter, as wind noise and rattling cables are gone. The aero gains are a "straw man" argument, forget about aero and focus on all the other gains.

That stuff is really cool, but it goes out the window when a guy on a 40 year old Univega 10 speed passes a whole group of riders. Makes you realize that it’s athleticism that counts the most.

Snapped my handlebars on my Ribble SLE, and could only replace with the bespoke Level 5 integrated bars which were out of stock. Previously I'd have just swapped out for any bar sitting around the shed¡!

Industry in general gone too far

personally I think newer road bikes are just gravel bikes on a road frameset huge tyre clearance wide rims wide tyres low pressure disc brakes easy gears Just sounds like a gravel bike to me 😂

Totally agree with you on this. This is why ive just bought a 2021 Giant TCR advanced pro 1 rim brake. Great bike and serviceable myself

It looks great, to be able hide the cables. Installation requires a lot of fiddling. Once setup, it’s fine. I ran my shifter cable housing all the way through, if I need to replace a cable ( once in 5+ years) I won’t need to disassemble entire bike.

Aero is the wrong assumption. A clean front is just beautiful!

I'm still riding a 2014 frame with external cables. No issues whatsoever. Components are easy to get, I can replace cables easily, can swap out handlebar widths and stem lengths, I have no idea why people thing this stuff is cool. I am unsure how much this helps pros even. We may never know I guess.

In my opinion, this discussion is not dissimilar to the disk brake controversy. While there are unquestionable drawbacks, this is where the industry goes, this is what consumers want, and this is clearly where technological advancements go. Electronic groupsets keep getting more affordable, wireless shifting slowly but surely replaces wires. Maybe at this point, the technology isn't mature enough, but it is getting there, just like disk brakes a short while ago. If you look at it in terms of body integrity, an externally wired bike is more vulnerable during a crash or any type of mishandling.

I would do without fully internal, but admit I found it nicer through the downtube when cleaning and putting on a bike carrier. Especially the welded lugs and exposed cable where you need to pad between the cable and frame when in a bike carriers clamp. So my money is now in the partially internal whereas it used to be in the exposed inner camp for easier oiling etc, but that was in the old days before the lined outers and water ingress and rust was a real issue.

I selected a Niner RLT 9 steel frame over the carbon version even though it weighs more. It has fully external cables compared to the carbon frame.

YES Let me add. I also root for mechanical shifting than electronic shifting. I don't want to worry about a battery and the juice remaining in it.

I totally agree. Integrated cockpits and internal CR are bad ideas for the average rider.

I think the semi integrated route is way better, such as midrange Trek, or with the FSA/Vision SCR. Let me group the cables to optimise aerodynamics (and aesthetics, who am I fooling), but not making me disassemble EVERYTHING to work on the bike.

To be honest, most people who buy entry level road bikes today are just able to inflate the tires and lube the chain. And that's it. They usually drop their bike at the local store and have the experts deal with the problems. So... internal cable routing is good because all causes of problems are stored away in the robust frame instead of dangling out in the open.

I'm curious why it matters that the gains are detectable? If a particular rider is unable to perceive the gains; you're saying that makes those gains essentially useless ... because they can't detect them? That is a strange argument. Detectable or not, gains are gains. A better argument is that those gains don't matter if the rider doesn't need them, for example, if a rider is only riding for leisure or for exercise. If a rider doesn't want internal routing, buy a bike without it, problem solved.

Unless you’re hydro and Di2/ AXS, even IF you’re on an aero road or TT bike, DON’T get fully internally routed cables/housing. Stay away from any headset/stem/handlebar routes PERIOD! Normal internal routing in down tube/top tube/stays is fine. The cost of time and/or maintenance cost skyrockets with mechanical setups. The housing kinks on fully internal require top end shift/brake cables/housing and more frequent swaps due to wear. And geo changes on even hydro/di2/AXS setups can get pricey if you have to run fresh hydro hose front and rear due to any geo changes.

You are 100% correct. Same can be said for hydraulic disc brakes too.

Completly agree. Try using cable housing organizers in the front end cables to tidy your TCR

MTBer here, I like it for dropper posts, otherwise I prefer all external. Internal is fine, but I've never had to mess with cables going thru three headset.

Aero schmero! It's all FASHION! Running all the hoses/wires/cables through the headset is dumb, dumb, dumb! Only thing worse is continuing the "F1-ization" through the f__king handlebars, making changing bar width, stem length a royal PITA!

Agreed, sure if you are racing otherwise just a huge pain even if its just hydro cables.Most people will be having these high end aero bike serviced at shop and those poor mechanics who have to spend hours trying to route and deal with this trend will agree for sure.

As a Certified tech of over 15 years, I will repair just about anything you bring me north of a department store bike. However, labor price is based on time required for such a repair. Don’t balk when your new rear shifter housing costs 2-3x what it did on your previous externally routed bike. And no, it’s not getting done overnight “because you have a race in the morning” and forgot till the day before. (But it probably will anyway.)

The right balance is to go integrated on electronic, rather than mechanical, groupsets and hydraulic brakes, and to go with separate bar and stem. Orbea got it right. They use a lager top bearing and standard, round steering tube with a spacer for the hoses and wires to pass through. My Orca OMX has near zero turning resistance, and I like that safety isn’t compromised. It has a “normal” stem, so I can choose my preferred bars. The plate under the stem hides the cables and is removable, so you can easily remove the plate and stem and have enough slack for transport. There aren’t really any downsides. If I’m replacing bearings in the headset, I might as well service the brakes and change fluid anyway. It’s the low end (mech brakes and shifter) and the high-end integrated bar and stem where there are compromises. Electronic/hydraulic & separate bar/stem is the sweet spot for hidden cables.

Giant TCR, didn't followed the trend. Said it's not worth it. But if you like looks and cleanliness. Go for it.

This video only mentions 1 stated advantage of fully internal cable routing, i.e. aerodynamics. There's another advantage: it makes the bikes easier to clean, because the cables, and any entry/exit points for cables not fully internal, pick up less dirt and mud from the ground. I think it's great being able to wipe clean the frame without having to slip the cloths under and around cables.

Internal routing will be a thing of the past as soon as someone invents wireless hydraulic brakes :-D