People are missing the entire thing they just heard the man say. He's saying that rock is a largely, and at that time, almost entirely elementary kind of music, from the point of understanding music. A rock musician (how many amateur guitar players do we all know?) is 999 times out of 1,000 unable to perform jazz at any level, let alone understand the music and the language of jazz. But even an alright jazz musician can learn fairly quickly how to perform rock music, even if they're not going to be the next Eddie Van Halen. He's talking about the reality that the rock world is very much the music of the everyday people, and the everyday people aren't musically educated. But even just a passionate musician, not even a particularly good one, should want to learn what music is to some greater extent. Since, like Bill is saying here, rock music is great in that it taught people to feel the beat, to be familiar with the personal side of music so that they can now be able to go and understand much better the knowledge and theory and craft of music. And some of y'all are arguing about "but my rock music is a LIFESTYLE! IT CAN'T BE REPLICATED!" Yeah? Same said about jazz. Only jazz is harder and takes more discipline. Popular opinion does not change the validity of this statement.

I'm a rock guitarist, trying to dive into jazz, and i have to say that everything he said is spot on. It's not unfair critisism to say that rock is generally easier to play and way less subtle than jazz

Bill Evans is likely one of the top five greatest jazz pianists of all time. Anyone studying jazz piano today cannot help but have been influenced by Bill Evans. Even if they have never heard of him, whom they have been listening to was very likely influenced by Bill. He changed the landscape for harmonic structure and improvisation in jazz. His comments are extremely accurate. He's not saying rock bad, just a different bag. As a professional jazz pianist myself, I have made more money playing in rock venues than jazz. That's just a fact. However I can say unequivocally that playing a jazz gig is much more demanding mentally and technically than a rock gig, it just is. But like Bill, I'm not tearing down rock. I love rock, grew up with it and no matter what music you like and play, as long as you put your heard and soul into the music, it will be good.

Amazing to be able to hear Bill's voice so clearly

"America hates music, but loves entertainment." ---Frank Zappa

Bill is a cool dude.

Bill Evans knows a few things. The man's one of the best jazz pianists ever. If you don't dig what he's saying, he's cool with it. If you listen carefully, you might actually learn something. He's not dissing rock music, but making a few distinctions. Your Waltz for Debby is still one of my favs. Love you Bill. Signed, Jazz/Rock drummer

As a passionate jazz lover, I first heard rock and rock derivatives as a child. Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, Alan Parsons, Manfred Man, Supertramp, Joni Mitchel, The Police etc. The musical subtleties that these artists were capable of and the frontier workers of jazz rock like John McLaughlin or Miles Davis made me eventually capable to understand the pure jazz. The boundaries between the styles were of course not so blurred at the time of this interview

One of the beautiful things about music is we don't have to pick just one genre. It's perfectly fine to like and respect them all, and for me just about all of them have their time and place in my life.

For drummers it's so true. The subtlety and lightness of touch required to play jazz drums is unheard of for a rock drummer.

"its a very subtle thing to play jazz time and make it swing and have a pulse" damn true

Jazz is a language ( like any music), if you cant speak the language it ain't gonna make sense, hence one must study and increase their musical vocabulary. Once you got that down it's how you speak it (make it feel), and quite often it's what we don't say that makes it feel good.This brings a wonderful reward that continues for a life time👍

I came from classical music - went over to Rock - and finally landed in Jazz and I am happy! Jazz contains aspects of classical music as well as of rock and of world music, and it makes free and grooves ...

So articulated, i miss musicians that can answer that way when they are asked about what they're doing.

A sweet, humble, generous-spirited and articulate man, who just happens to be a genius

Bill Evans is one of my favorite jazz pianist with a style that's truly unique. He concentrates and put every ounce of what he has into a song and yes he can swing the heck out of a song. I have a huge selection of his DVDs and enjoy just grabbing one at random, putting it on and sitting back and enjoying it.

He's Bill Evans. He's entitled to his own opinion. The man was a genius. Pure and simple.

While I hold Bill Evans at the highest level of musical genius, and technically he is correct about a Jazz musician being able to play Rock rather than the other way around, it took me a long time to understand that many Jazz artists can't play Rock with the feel needed to stir an audience. Now, Jazz Fusion artists broke that barrier back in early '70s...taking both genres to new heights. Bill is special. His music speaks at the highest and deepest sophisticated levels... Rock is not about being deep. It's about letting strong emotions out without holding anything back. I enjoy both and encourage folks to cross-train in different genres to expand their minds and repertoires. Bless you Bill and rest knowing you've touched the minds and souls of so many listeners.

"Yeah....yeah. Yeah. Yeah......Right. Whatever. I agree."

So nice to hear the voice of this genius!

Crazy how he talks about Rock coming into the mainstream and pushing Jazz out of focus into a dark corner, and how he kind of resented rock music for that. And 50 years later the same thing happened with Hip Hop music and I can't help but feel the way Bill did about his time period, (I'm a rock guitarist) crazy how history repeats itself

I find Bill's critique to be both honest and insightful. But each kind of music has its own dialect. The great Chicago blues drummer of the 1950s and '60s, Fred Below had played jazz for years (and wore a beret) , but when confronted with playing blues in noisy Chicago taverns, he found he could not provide, or even find, the requisite beat. So he had to re-learn what he was doing for the new situation. Fred went home, listened to records by Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf and Little Walter. Then came back to the bandstand and he was able to fit in, and admirably. My point is that no one type of music is inherently superior to any other. As Bill said, "you have to own what you do, and live with it."

I play a lot of country, rock, Chicago blue, bluegrass and bills right. I started looking at jazz over the past couple years and it made me better. Thank you bill for the music 🙏

This interview is amazing

Priceless wisdom from a true master.

Well said, Bill. Now that's a musical genius speaking if I've ever heard one.

"Direct! I don't like to go around corners, even when you're subtle!" Beautiful.

This guy is a luminary. His musical achievement gives him mentorship credentials. Listen up.

A lot of comments here are confusing the rhythmic tightness and constant pulse in most rock music and assuming that makes it harder than jazz for some players, but two elements are not being discussed. It is the HARMONIC sophistication of jazz which makes it very difficult for most rock musicians, who largely play familiar chords, mostly in root position, and without much development or progression between them. The requirement for extremely sophisticated chord and harmony knowledge makes Jazz of Bill Evans and others so mysteriously unattainable for most rock musicians. The other concept is "SWING". Jazz that swings is not the same thing as the tight, pulse-dominated and usual unvaried rhythm of a given rock piece. That might not always make jazz "superior" to rock which at its best requires great skill also. But there is no doubt the harmonic language of Jazz requires a lot of study and devotion to be convincing. As for the emotional content of both forms, there are inspired and moving examples of both. It is the compositional achievements of the best of pop/rock that are often taken up by jazz players and extended, edited, and sometimes (not always) enhanced to good effect. On the other hand some essentially elegant and simple pop songs have been molested badly by poor jazz interpretation to the point of murdering them. It depends on the quality of the interpretation and the suitability of the original material.

“Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, I agree.”

So insightful. Evans was a master of shuffling the beat in his beautiful music.

So true, Jazz is way harder than rock, Bill Evans is definitely an absolute master! Rest In Peace with Chet Baker and Louis Armstrong

I just make whatever music I like. I learned a lot by jazz and rock alike.

Love Bill always will :-)

i began playing guitar over 30 years ago and was purely interested in rock and heavy metal..as my music tastes broadened and my interest in the guitar deepened I found rock very one dimensional and claustrophobic..As my tastes developed and my ear improved, AND my quest for newer and more interesting sounds and my desire to create them, i gravitated more and more towards jazz and jazz laden music..Ultimately it really is the only destination for most advancing players..Even if you don't become a dyed in the wool jazz player, it will also add interest to a musicians primary style..Listen to jazz/country, or jazz/funk, or latin/jazz..they are all amazing.

What a great interview!

really cool to hear such a brilliant musician talk rock music without condecension or ridicule.....as the great Duke Ellington said=there are only 2 kinds of music: good music and all the rest

Love listening to Gods voice

“To do something less obvious with it” that’s beautiful

Thanks for the upload

A good musician can play any style.

Most people are pissing and whining because they didn't listen up to 2:30 when he begins to commend rock.

I love rock But Jazz, jazz speaks to me in a different way. Jazz tells a story without words, jazz speaks life. A solo in jazz is almost an extension of yourself, it’s who you are in that feel of the piece.

What a thrill to hear him speak. Just as eloquent and interesting to listen to as his music.

There are a multitude of examples of session players who appeared on lots of rock recordings who were actually jazz players. In LA this was common practice in the music industry for many years.

To people who talk about progressive rock: these categories are not frigid. Some of the best progressive rock crosses into jazz (fusion) and orchestral music. I don't think Bill Evans is talking about that kind of "rock music".

He's right of course. Very wise words from the legend. Each musical style has their on characteristics and vocabulary. I'm a rock player who is has started to slowly get into jazz. It's a great journey.

When I played what was called free jazz back in the 70s I incorporated everything from blues country rock classical bebop even oriental sounds in my playing I love listening to the Vanilla fudge and Stevie Winwood as well as digging Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor if it's great music just enjoy it life's to short to moan and groan about genres

Sometimes you crave for Beef Wellington. Sometimes you crave for a Big Mac. If one of the two were missing, there would be an error in your life.

I always thought that rock/pop was about the "song" and jazz was about the music.

Thanks for sharing, Who ever is with Bill, must be from NY or somewhere back East. You can sense his energy

Thanks for this. 👌🏻

I once climbed to the apex of a jazzy rock....that can’t be beat.

Jazz is to rock what blue grass is to country. Lyle mays was a disciple of Bill Evans. He played a lovely tribute to him ( September 15th )

For me my first genre of love was also Rock'n'Roll or rather AC/DC. They just have that cool feel. As I was getting a more experienced player, and more passionate about music I wanted to explore another genre. Between classical and jazz I chose the latter one. At first I didn't really understand it. However through the more bluesy jazz pieces like C-Jam Blues or That Gal Looks Good and through simpler jazz and lofi streams here on youtube, I was able to make a connection to jazz. The bluesy stuff made my feet move almost like AC/DC (since they're also playing lots of blues^^) and lofi and rainy jazz time was really relaxing. Also I found good'ol Django Rheinhardt, whose music for me also has a good drive. That way I got closer and more acommodated to jazz sounds. Then I wanted to really explore jazz and learn to play it. With the use of a school assignment I got all the theory done and created a little jazz piece myself. Furthermore I was able to discover and listen to much more jazz. At that point I was finally able to really enjoy and understand more complicated jazz. After that school assignment, for which I had to spend a lot of time researching stuff and getting bass, drums, guitar and piano on there in a fashionable manner (All instruments by me....alone...), I was finally really able to start practicing (that was from 11th march 2019). Since then I learned a damn lot, on guitar (main instrument) and piano and I am still improving every day :) So in all this time I got to discover many great songs and artists like Bill (obviously), Duke, Coltrane, Fitzgerald, Pass, Davis, Billy Bauer (You need to check im out!), Dave Cliff and many more. I absolutely love to listen to all of these, and the feeling they give, though I also find that Rock'n'Roll is still kinda really my "home base". Jazz conveys more complex, colorful and distinctive feelings whereas Rock'n'Roll just has that simplicity and directness, which comes directly in to your face. Both Genres are great. Both each have their own great many feelings, which they convey. Just because Rock is simpler in it's theory doesn't mean it's bad, as Bill states in this video. It even has (a sort of) improvisation, which is represented by the solo of a song, such as in Highway to Hell, Rock in Peace, Runnin Wild, Soul Stripper etc. All in All, for me both are equally excellent and unique and each with it's great variety in itself. Rock On and Swing It!

Moving a person's soul...that's the measure of a musician.

Agreed, but I think most of musicians start (and often continue) with rock. I only started to appreciate jazz past 25. I love rock, always did, always will, I grew up with rock and it introduced me to so many other genres and sub genres, from death metal to rockabilly,. Rock made me buy my first bass, rockabilly my first double bass. But I must admit, never a rock piece made me feel, think, resonate and love as much as Waltz for Debby did(which Bill composed). Never a rock bass player gave me what LaFaro gave me. And yes, I think Bill is unequivocally right when he speaks about rock not being subtle. Don't get me wrong, there are subtleties in rock, but it's not the intention of the genre. It explains perfectly why rock is still popular today, and jazz is often seen as bullshit or snob music. I always find the comparison to mathematics very indicative. Most people don't like math because it requires time, thinking and practice to appreciate the subtleties of it, but once you're there, it is truly beautiful. Same goes with jazz (or music in general). I don't respect less rock musicians after hearing Bill. They gave what the people of their time wanted. Rock gave the possibility to so many people to play music. Some musicians wanted to push it further, jazz gave them that possibility (which is not exclusive to jazz), and that is fine. Not everybody digs Bill Evans, and that is fine as well!

No offense taken. I love them both. I love Bill's playing.

As a three chord rock hack guitar player he is spot on. I watch some of these jazz cats and my jaw drops.

On point on every point. Great interview! What a guy!

Bill Evans is basically a product of his generation. Ask any jazz musician from his era and they all say the same. But its true that rock from a technical point of view is easier. But you could never get purely jazz players to sound as good as say The Rolling Stones because the music takes a certain attitude to play it well. It comes from a visceral place thats hard to explain.

Though a rock musician won't be able to play jazz, a jazz musician doesn't have the feel of rock. So it is with blues, rnb etc. It's more the execution of the genre rather than the complexity of it.

Giorgi Verulashvili, many thanks for this video and especially for the photograph of Bill Evans sitting at the piano composing music (writing with his left hand). This is the best photo of Bill Evans, because his contribution to the world of piano harmony and Jazz was not necessarily his playing but his composing and arranging. Bill Evans, more than any other pianist-arranger, created the sound of "Modern Jazz Harmonies" and he did it sitting on the piano bench, experimenting, note-by-note, trial and error, until it sounded good. This photo is the true Bill Evans. The man who invented beautiful modern Jazz harmony, and the fantastic things that came along with that harmony, which were moods, feelings, and emotions. What had been little more than major (happy) and minor (sad) harmony of past generations, was expanded by Bill Evans to cover the endless variety of human emotion. Feelings of sweetness, tenderness, danger, dissonant uneasiness, deep sorrow, pensive uneasiness, sensuousness....and the list goes on and on. His inspiration came not from the Classical music period, but from the Romantic classical period of the late 19th century and early 20th century. Composers like Ravel, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky and Debussy were his inspiration, and he didn't copy them, but instead, he expanded and improved what they had created harmonically. He was able to convey the harmonies which were previously performed only by large symphonies, into a single instrument, the piano. And, when he played in a trio setting with bass and drums, the trio could convey far more in terms of producing musical textures and landscapes. Musical landscapes which brought out a varied and wide range of emotions in the listeners. As a jazz pianist-arranger-composer, I know the difference between Jazz, Classical, Popular, Rock, Country, Folk, Blues, and Ethnic music styles, because I have played all of them. Bill Evans is correct when he says that given ten minutes, most Jazz musicians can play Rock, however Rock musicians will not be able to play Jazz. The reason is simply that most Rock musicians are not studied, educated and experienced musicians. They have only learned to imitate other Rock musicians, and Rock music is a form of Folk music, that is to say that average folks produce folk music. Folk music is simple, elementary and often crude music. The type of music that regular, average folks can play on simple instruments like guitar, banjo, or harmonica. On the other hand, Jazz musicians, just like Classical musicians, have had years of training from professional music educators, and unlike the simple, elementary folk music, which is played by average folks, to average folk audiences, Jazz and Classical music is played to folks who are far more musically sophisticated. Jazz is also improvised music, which requires far greater listening skills and experience from the audiences. In fact, Jazz is "musicians music" played by musicians for other musicians, and the audience simply observes and listens to the creativity. Comparing Jazz to Rock is like comparing a used hot rod to a formula one race car. You wouldn't expect a street drag racer hot rod-driving amateur to be able to step into a formula one race car and drive it in the Grand Prix. Having said that, I do like Rock music. In fact, I like just about all styles of music, as long as they are written well and played well. There is a place in our lives for junk food, gourmet food and healthy food. The problem is when only one type of food is eaten, which can lead to malnutrition and disease...in this case, the health of a person's soul. To gorge on only one style of music, deprives yourself from the incredible delights and emotional nutrition of so many other great types of emotional food. From a musicians point of view and experience, many of the great Rock players, Country players, and Pop music players actually came from a legitimate and educated musical background. They started learning Classical music as a child, eventually graduated to paying improvised Jazz, and then, because there is little money in playing Jazz, "sold out" as the saying goes, by playing in Pop, Rock, Folk, and Country bands. Since they were trained musicians, they could easily adapt to any style of music. I've known and worked with so many talented and educated legitimate musicians who have played in bands of all musical styles. But when it comes to listening to music, musicians either listen to Classical symphonic music, or Jazz, or they don't listen to much music at all. Since they play music for a living, they often listen very little to music for pleasure. 'Kind of like a plumber playing with pipes on his day off, or a doctor watching medical videos....professionals want a break from what they do as a profession. The bottom line in this argument about Rock music vs. Classical or Jazz music can be summed up in the simple phrase that trumpeter Louis Armstrong, the father of American Jazz, said and every professional musician eventually discovers this to be true: "They ain't but two types of music.....Good, and bad." When any style of music is written well and played or sung well, it is always good music. Even Rap music. Even atonal, dissonant twenty-first modern Classical music. When any style of music is poorly written, and performed even more poorly...it is always terrible. Fortunately, we have a world with lots of good music, in all styles, written by good writers, played by good musicians, and sung by good singers. The gift is never about the box in comes in and the paper it's wrapped in. It's what's inside the box that's important.

Love it!!

Fascinating to listen to this. Does anyone know where I can find the full interview?

"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny." - Frank Zappa

I love his voice :3

This is amazing

Interesting how they had an understanding of traditional African music and Jazz's roots in it.

"Rock" back then was very different to rock in following decades. Prog, fusion and psychedelic rock were later attempts to play with great power a music that was challenging and interesting. Often rock musicians started out wanting excitement, fame, money or sex when they are young, but as they mature the fascination of music draws them.

This old legendary figure already gave our answer to the attitude about now days music , 'rock' stand for pop today, 'jazz' stand for gold but not old

I love his understatement!

I wish someone would transcribe this conversation. It would make it easy for me to understand.

My dad was a great pianist. He taught at Yale school of music and graduated with piano in three years. Paul Hindemith was his professor but my dad was teaching his harmony and counterpoint classes as a student. My dad loved Bill Evans. He also loved Dave Brubeck.

I agree with him started as a rock guitarist and now I'm in jazz . rock is very elementary but jazz is sophisticated and elementary part is very important to master for me i find satisfaction in jazz now

I have very little to add here because the previous comments were THAT insightful and intelligent. It says a lot about Bill Evans and his listeners.

He's surprisingly respectful, and actually has something to say instead of being the guy who doesn't like new music. My only issue it's good tendency to say "yeah" every 0.3 seconds when the other guy's speaking 😂 At least if he has a mic as well, it would be reasonable

I think the Grateful Dead give a unique model within the rock genre of a band that is focused on the subtle interplay of musicians and trying to create music in the moment. They are certainly not on the same level of sophistication harmonically as someone like Bill Evans, but they have their own form of interplay that is conversational in the same way jazz is, but with the added dynamic and sonic dimensions.

I wish the interviewer ask him about Bands like Blood,Sweat and Tears who got kids like me just going into my teenage years listening to Jazz and Chicago although they were mainly Rock.They did add the Jazz element to their Music.

i have an immense amount of respect for bill evans. he was an astonishingly innovative musician, composer and improviser. a pivotal figure in the evolution of american music. and, in spite of his accomplishment and talents, he is no more of an expert on rock music than my grandmother. and pay close attention to what he says, "...somewhere deep inside me i did resent a little bit that terrific phenomenon of rock in the 60s pushed jazz into a corner..." that's the reveal. i've played with many jazz musicians and improvisers. in reality, most jazz musicians cannot play rock music convincingly (and they know it) and it is nowhere near as easy or automatic as bill evans would like to think. just ask miles who did try to play rock music. i began playing music in chicago as a blues musician. and i heard the same kind of condescension about blues from both jazz and rock players. but none of them can play authentic blues to save their lives. the same is also true of most jazz players. and vice versa rock guys trying to play jazz. if and when you attempt to use whatever music you love to denigrate another kind of music, you only reveal how insecure you are about yourself. both jim hall and bob brookmeyer who played with bill evans spoke about times when bill could not go onstage because he was so insecure about his playing. even the greatest musician is still just a human being and subject to all the frailties, foibles and fragility as other humans. including bill evans. would this be a good time to remind people that bill evans was a junkie for most of his life and it actually killed him. so i think you might want to stop making him into a deity.

I would love to hear what Bill would have said about hip-hop and disco.

He talks cool and plays fantastic and he is right - that's why Miles and Mahavishnu Orch. & Zappa invented jazz- rock - but still the jazz sensibility is missed - great artist !

Truer words have never been spoken

spot on! Billy completely nailed it talking about such a controversial subject in a brilliant, straightforward and elegant way. a true master speaking. what a delightful mind! love him even more now 😊 👏 👏 👏 ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

I agree with him in that, once you have the basics, you naturally want to go further and can’t understand why most people won’t. Can’t understand that most adults listen to the same music they did when they where teens AND won’t add anything merely sophisticated or challenging in their track lists in their whole lives. Would they do that with books, movies, art in general, conversations etc? Do we?

Yes, jazz is far more complex than pop, folk, country, rock, blues, etc. But that doesn't mean a jazz player can automatically play in any of those simpler genres and sound authentic if he hasn't spent a lot of time absorbing the musical language of that genre.

Thanks for posting this, I hadn't heard it before. Seems like Bill is laying it out there without any hate toward rock musicians. He was very fair in handling the interviewer's suggested bias towards jazz. Every musician has their own personal motivation for playing and deciding what to play and how to play. That's what makes music so great. The only thing that might fly in the face of this argument is that he say's if musicians are doing it for commercial gain, it's cool, as long as they admit it. Not sure how many commercial musicians know, or would admit, they are in it strictly for the money. Most of us agree on dividing an octave into 12 steps. It's always amazing to me how many disparate types of music com out of this system.

Thanks Bill...you summed it up expertly.Nuff said.

I wonder, what rock and roll are we talking about here? Technically, rock and roll was born in the 50's and most of the songs were played by session musicians with a strong background in jazz. It frequently had sophisticated chord voicings, a deep swing, and liberal use of country and blues elements, two musical forms also informed by jazz. 60's rock saw an influx of more 'garage' level bands and simpler compositions, but still, a great many acts had musicians with jazz training, and if you watch old videos of those acts you'll see drummers using traditional grip and guitarists with their instruments strapped high and playing with studied technique. They just had a different agenda for their skills. In any case, what is NOT easy to do regardless of genre is to write music which captures the imagination of a generation, and what is even harder still is to write music which inspires future generations. In that light, the number of artists who make the grade is relatively low, jazz rock or otherwise. And I'm grateful for all of them.

Jazz = chess Rock = checkers

thank you thnak you thank you. LEGEND GOD.

I've listened to Bill Evans for years but this is the first time I've heard him speak. I prefer to think of his piano playing as his real voice.

He makes some valid points. From a rhythm standpoint nothing is more complex than classical / opera where the meter often changes with each measure and the beat will slow down or excelerate within that measure and do so constantly. This is not a knock on any genre just an observation.

Id love to know the date this is from. Helps us give an idea of which kind of rock he's got in his head (because rock is sophisticated in its own way, but as Bill Evans said, its very measured)

¡Guau! Qué genial. Por favor suban subtítulos en castellano. Así podremos entender mejor. Gracias por el rescate y subirlo.

For a fantastic pop/jazz treat, the Bronx child prodigy and genius Laura Nyro's revolutionary pop LP 'Eli and the Thirteenth Confession' (1968) is as technically complex as pop ever got, and is littered with great jazz players like Zoot Sims, Joe Farrell, Artie Schroeck, Bernie Glow, etc, etc. The album is jazz progressions, hybrid chords, polyrhythms, counterpoint, wide intervals and lots of key, tempo, rhythm changes. Nyro is Rock Hall of Fame, Songwriters Hall of Fame. Nyro's LP is one of the most influential songwriting records of the last 50 years. Miles Davis, Leonard Bernstein, and Stephen Sondheim were all Nyro fans. Miles and Nyro actually did some shows together.

This is exactly how a classical musician would talk about jazz in Jelly Roll's day.

Mr. Evans' opinion is based on the rock landscape before Rush, Dream Theater and Spiral Architect... time changed

He's right on here. They're different with different demands. And they're both great!

What ever you do you got to live with it🕉