Yes you are on the right path there.

Great comment thanks for the suggestion. Because we manufacture our own compressors (on a small scale ofcourse) i wont be ale to share all the info - but i will share some information which will open the topic and explain some things for you.

@@TurboDirectSA Sounds great! I'll sub and look for upcoming vids. :)

It is in fact always like that. Design for design a more dense material weighs more - period. Change the design, the weight changes - but then thats not an apples with apples comparison.

@@TurboDirectSA Understand your point, yes.

@@flashman_tv 100% -- design has the largest impact on the weight of the wheel. forging the material allows for the most modifications to lighten the wheel because the material is homogeneous and the grain structure is much smaller due to the forging process which add strength and depending on its condition will add to ductility and many other aspects of the material aswell - allowing further design changes

HI there size for size, no gains at all - if the billet wheel is enlarged it will flow more - therefore you will see gains. But identical wheels in billet versus cast - billet loses in response every time.

@@TurboDirectSA i see this point but i wonder where the benefit of the way of producing is? I have seen videos where they did show larger blades because they made the center part narrow.

@@nicoleibundgut534 Size for size = heavier, which relates to lag - fact Change the design which may alter the flow, then you have increases in HP when mixing fuel with the additional flow - depending on the design, the weight might be more, or less - which has a direct effect on the spool characteristics of the turbo and its performance. Its all speculation until you have an exact product with specifications that you can compare with the oem blade. If its performance you after, upgrade the turbo, forget about billet this and billet that - we able to build a turbo that will outspool and outperform any billet application that uses a cast wheel inside of a specific size inducer. its all about what you want to achieve. id suggest you email info@turbodirect.co.za for more technical info on the subject.

Not so much the wheel - the bearing system will take the strain from the continuous back and forth thrust loading.

Nope - totally incorrect. Thinner blades will break, there is a fatigue limit in blade angle, loads applied, induced vibrations provided they do no exceed the 4th order (technical - we can go there if you would like - we use holographic photographs to see the vibrations exerted on the blades and we can calculate exactly the life expectancy of the blade based on FACTS) and and and --- sticking to the point - size for size, OEM FOR OEM billet wheels are a waste - period. HOWEVER -- design a specific blade profile and size, angle, loft, sweep and and and for a SPECIFIC application, billet might or might not be the best solution. A lighter wheel HAS a different design - fact. Steel weighs more than aluminium -- fact

If your billet wheel is only 7% lighter it's still pretty beefy. 2024, which I assume you're using, is a tough material. The yield strength is almost double cast 319. I've seen some guys have drop in wheels more than 20% lighter.

@@timothybayliss6680 We use a different grade of aluminium for specific reasons based on the application. There is no such thing as one material fits all im afraid. I dont go based on what people have seen or claim, i prefer to conduct tests on actual products. The Wheels we manufacture we test beyond any normal rotational use in terms of speed and thermal loads. If we can break it, we dont release it. Once we happy that high speeds are stable and the material does not fail (some tests exceed 300 000rpm wheel size dependant) then we will release it. If you have these wheels that are made from these materials, and you dont mind if they possibly burst, why dont you send them our way and lets conduct some tests on them and compare these back to back to a Garrett and BorgWarner.

@@TurboDirectSA kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gp-SdLKF0p3Ge3U.html Gt2860r billet wheel. 20% lighter, 7% less lag, 10% more whp ran to choke. Wastegate set to 10psi. I have no idea your manufacturing procedure because you are unwilling to say what they are. I don't know what alloy you use. I don't know your tempering procedure. Why don't you test the borg warner compressor wheels you have in front of you? You could get both cast and fmw s471 wheels and weigh them and knowing the flow map make a comparison. You could compare the 11 blade gtx3582 wheel to the 6+6 wheel of the gt3582. Those flow maps are easily available. Did I say one material fits all? I made an assumption based on reasonable grounds of industry standards. 2024 is used on many billet wheels and 2618 is used on many forged milled wheels. 319 is common, as is A355 for cast wheels. They differ considerably for tensile ultimate and yield strength. The tensile strength of billet 2024 is at least 50% higher than cast a355. The strength to weight ratio tells a reasonable material scientist that a 7% weight reduction is way less than what is possible with those two materials. TurbolabofAmerica has a drop in Hx40 60mm wheel that flows almost 18% more (67 v 79lb/m) and weighs almost 13% less (127 v 147g). If you want to compare wheels you have to compare like to like. You maybe found the only two turbochargers that have OE billet and cast wheels available for them. You are going to say that all these lightweight wheels fail consistently, sure, maybe. Look at the weight and flow difference between a gtx3584rs wheel and a T04z wheel. They have almost identical inducer and exducer and are both designed for the same performance envelope and some turbochargers can interchange these head units. Why are there no high blade count cast wheels? The cast GT4202 wheel is a 6+6 but the Billet GTx4202 is an 11 blade wheel as is every medium frame gtx compressor. You make the rediculous requirement of comparing only Oe wheels with one another when you must know that there are very few compressors that have the same covers for cast and billet wheels the same size with the same blade count. Garrett Billet 11 blade 61.4mm compressors for gt3582r turbos are 12 grams lighter than the 6+6 cast wheels they replace while flowing 7% more air at the same compressor speed. Garrett does not offer a billet 6+6 wheel this size nor an 11 blade cast wheel. This is an OE replacement part that completely undermines everything you say here.

@@timothybayliss6680 you missing the point totally. The wheel in your video link is NOT Garrett, the wheel in your video is NOT size for size or like for like (design dimensions, sweep, loft, etc) to the cast Garrett wheel.

Pleasure

It has more to do with the boost pressures and rotaitonal speeds - the higher the speeds, the more necessary it becomes to use a billet material (ON AN OEM SETUP OPERATING OUTSIDE OF THE OEM PARAMETERS)

i agree - alot is misled and opinionated information out there, which lead to disappointed customers.

@@Thr33.Sid3z LOL -- materials are something you know very little about.

Funny to see you here. I agree. Unfortunately some channels have put out a lot of mixed good/bad or just plain misinformation. Really hard to sort through what is fact, opinion, or otherwise. I usually try to check every claim against fact pages from reputable manufacturers such as Garrett. Sometimes it's easy to spot the nonsense, other times not as much.

100% in agreement with you. turbolab is a small shop with no experience close to this guy.

Size for Size yes - forged material is heavier due to the increased density - metallurgical fact

@@TurboDirectSA then why would those companies like tomei or others advertise their billet compressor wheel built turbo are lighter than cast wheel turbo and spool faster than cast wheel?

@@kunjiang2187 you will have to ask Tomei that question. They the only ones who know the intricacies of their own designs. I seriously doubt that Tomei do size for size replacements.

@@TurboDirectSA thank you so much for your answer. One last question not turbo related, but is forged wheels also heavier than cast wheels? Or rims whatever we call it. Thank you.

@@kunjiang2187 Forged wheels are made from different materials, the weight will differ based on the material used and its density. The weight of magnesium for example is 30% less than aluminium, but not as strong, however has much better vibration damping properties. There are methods being used through plastic deformation (forging/pressing) called orthoganol constrained groove pressing which then requires annealing and and -- this induces plastic deformation into the material without damaging it, and changed the microstructure and grain structure to a smaller tighter one, making the materials ductility higher and almost equal to aluminium. Once again which magnesium alloy and what process has it undergone? AZ31 is the most common of magnesium alloys used - but without processing, its most certainly not stronger than aluminium but much lighter. If you take a forged aluminium wheel, SIZE FOR SIZE IDENTICAL DESIGN, THICKNESS, DIAMETER ETC - the forged wheel will definitely be heavier - the forged wheels are usually advertised being lighter BECAUSE the design is changed to use less material because of the added strength.

So please indicate what material you used to do your research. Who did you ask about the billet wheels you did your research on? If you used a simple extruded piece of aluminium purchased from your hardware store (usually made from T6 6061 - low grade aluminium) then you will see a totally different result to the FORGED (much higher density material and weighs ALOT more) 7000grade aluminium. Listen to the video - i mention this in the video - and i also cover the dimensions. IDENTICAL size for size wheels cast versus Billet using a FORGED material - Billet will ALWAYS be heavier - this is a metallurgical fact. I would suggest you consult someone with experience and not some opinionated individual found on a forum. Clearly you have no idea about how Billet compressor wheels are made - the ONLY way to machine these wheels is with a 5 axis machine - or 6 axis robot - Once again your lack of knowledge about the compressor wheel root (aka hub) is clear - the highest stresses placed on a compressor wheel is directly in the centre of the root (hub) and then a hole is drilled through it (weakening it - but making place for the shaft) modifying this and reducing its design, puts additional strain on the material, FURTHER requiring a stronger FORGED material to withstand the rotational (centrifugal) forces applied - this is why Garrett as an example manufacture a boreless compressor - specifically to prevent the failures of compressor wheel roots (hubs) through cyclic fatigue - something you would know very little about. So before shouting your mouth off about something you clearly know almost nothing about, i would suggest you "do your research" properly and possibly enquire from professionals who manufacturer these wheels, ardor a metallurgical knowledgable person trained in this area of expertise.

Facepalm

Thank you both, I learnt from both the constructive question and answer 👍