3dfx Voodoo Memory Upgrade Board

3dfx Voodoo Memory Upgrade Board - Revision 1.1

Рет қаралды 30,080

Күн бұрын

It has been a few weeks since I released the 3dfx Voodoo memory mod boards. Unfortunately, the original design was not perfect. Speaking with several viewers of the channel, I came up with a few improvements that I want yo show you in this video!
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00:00 Intro
00:36 Issues with rev 1.0
02:15 PCBWay Sponsor
02:56 Preparations
05:22 Assembly
08:07 Installation
08:25 Testing
09:03 Troubleshooting
10:43 Discovery
10:55 Rectification
11:16 Your support is valuable
11:39 Retest & Conclusion

Пікірлер: 137

@nicholsliwilson Жыл бұрын

Great to see the continued development of these boards but I’m surprised you didn’t add an “On/Off” jumper for game testing? Or can you disable the board by disconnecting the leads going to the Voodoo chips? @Bits und Bolts

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Actually here is something really interesting - and I will pin your comment. It is not enough to just disconnect the wires and leave the memory board clipped on the Voodoo card. If you do, you get artifacts. You have to remove the mod entirely if you want to go back to a lower memory configuration. I have posted this on my Patreon account, but never mentioned it in a KZfaq video: www.patreon.com/posts/voodoo-upgrade-79103584

@DoctorWhom Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts instead of leaving the one pin floating, what if you ground the extra wire from the memory board?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

That could work, however, I don't know if the remaining 39 pins still somehow activate the memory chips on the memory expansion board. I just don't have the knowledge/experience with this to give an answer. I could test it and if it works, a switch could be added to enable/disable the extra memory.

@GGigabiteM Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts For the memory board to be disabled without being removed, you would have to break pins 13 (WE) and 27 (OE) on each memory chip and pull them up to TTL high (3v3 or 5v) to have them be disconnected from the bus. I believe on 40 pin SOJ DRAM, the WE and OE signals are active low. Pulling them high would disable them. You'd need to figure out how the WE and OE lines are routed on both the FBI and TMU. I don't know if they access one chip at a time, two chips at a time, or all four at a time (16, 32 or 64 bit memory access.) This would result in eight additional jumpers (16 bit), four jumpers (32 bit) or two jumpers (64 bit). With that level of complexity, you're going to start having problems with signal corruption. Jumpers poking up on the top of the card is going to be a giant antenna that will sink noise into the line and potentially cause issues. It'd be easier to just remove the board entirely and disconnect the existing wires.

@tuomollo 5 ай бұрын

@@GGigabiteM Well, one jumper and some logic ICs would do the job as well

@TomStorey96 Жыл бұрын

It would be "capillary action" that causes the solder to be drawn through the via to the pad underneath, rather than gravity. :)

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Ahh, I was always bad in physics.... Thank you for correcting me.

@dolphhandcreme Жыл бұрын

Add vias for every possible pin and simply solder the lower sockets trough the pcb. Solder will flow trough the vias and attach to the pins of the lower socket if you are patient enough and maybe help with some hot air. Afterwards you can remove the pcb and solder the remaining pins (RAS, CAS, CE?) which are differently connected and can't have a via.

@5mf1nc Жыл бұрын

These vias can even be staggered to fit better to pins next to each other.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

When the sockets are placed on the memory chips, they tend to bend in the center outwards. I could imagine that this can cause issues if we start soldering center pins.

@dolphhandcreme Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts i'd not push them completely flush on the chips, only let them sit slightly so the position is correct. And you can theoretically leave the inner plastic intact so the sockets don't get pushed oval from the forces.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I see what you mean - it could work. However, here are a few things I learned creating those mods: The sockets are held by sliding about 1mm over the memory pins - the plastic support prevents this from happening. If the sockets are not firmly pressed over the chips, they tend to tilt to one side. But you could be right that the PCB helps level the connectors and prevents bending the sockets. I guess it is all trail an error. Unfortunately, I ran out of sockets :) I have more coming, but that will take a while.

@NVMDSTEvil Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts maybe put a small shim between the lower sockets to keep them from bending during build phase?

@Kspcs909 Жыл бұрын

Very nice mod ! You are very talented at designing PCBs

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Maybe some encouragement for others: This was my first attempt to design a PCB. It took time to learn a few basics, but it is possible!

@vswitchzero Жыл бұрын

Brilliant idea to use the holes to line up the pins prior to soldering! Nice work! I also ran into a solder bridge just like that recently in an SOJ socket, but it was a factory defect from a Diamond Stealth VLB card from back in ~1994. It wasn't easy to spot without magnification at just the right angle. Keep up the awesome work! 🙂👍

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I have seen the video! Quite interesting that the QC didn't catch this solder bridge!

@GadgetUK164 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic job! Nice revisions to the design!

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

@AshenTechDotCom Жыл бұрын

hate to say it, if im gonna do this much soldering, im just removing the stock memory chips, putting sockets in their place, infact i have done this, and, you can take a voodoo1 past 8mb, and a voodoo2 past 12mb, does require modified bios but, i have seen it done successfully.

@derpinbird1180 Жыл бұрын

Does the extra memory get utilized? I thought the drivers would be unaware of the extra memory

@Stratotank3r Жыл бұрын

Ich mag das rote PCB in Rev.1.1 Gibt einen schönen Kontrast zu den schwarzen Speicherchips und den blauen Widerständen.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Finde ich auch! Danke fürs Video gucken!

@Shaner9er Жыл бұрын

I don't think Voodoo cards will ever die.. this is pretty neat good job.

@BlueSkyYGO Жыл бұрын

Nice work!

@cheater00 Жыл бұрын

nice idea with using through-holes for the pins! it's kinda similar to what we talked about but this version is much nicer

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yes, I was surprised that it actually did work so well.

@cheater00 Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts definitely a nice new construction method. lovely.

@sarajackson5795 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info!

@TheKsax Жыл бұрын

Nifty design update, I would add a pollarised sockets for addressing wires and some headers, but thats it. Don't even need to revise PCB, can just swap header to pollarised, which fits in to same clearance and spacing.

@Chriva Жыл бұрын

Your solution is infinitely better than my backside roasting idea. Went mind blow when I saw the holes lol :D

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thank you :) It was an experiment. Truth is, when I restored the 386 motherboard, I noticed how solder flows through those vias when they are not closed off. That is what gave me that idea. Worked pretty well!

@TekRaiderz-qh5ic Жыл бұрын

great catch,, cheers

@SobieRobie Жыл бұрын

Good job! Your work is so famous already that I saw someone who sells the boards on auction in... Poland.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Haha, really? How much did it fetch :)?

@Wil3vlbc9gvk604 Жыл бұрын

That is really cool.

@tigheklory Жыл бұрын

Yes I want to see what you do with those SIMMS!

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Working on it!

@ctiborkoza8944 Жыл бұрын

nice update 👍

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@acidUNDERtongue Жыл бұрын

otlichnoe video, velikolepniy anliyskiy. Moyo pochteniye

@3dfxvoodoocards6 Жыл бұрын

Interesting, like!

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@omfgbunder2008 Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't it be easier to remove the 512k chips from the card and solder on 1mb chips rather than piggybacking 8 more chips?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I am not sure if this is possible. I am no expert, but 512k chips have an 8-bit address bus. A 1m chip requires 9-bits to address the additional space. The Voodoo chipset has 2xRAS to control 2 pairs of 4x512k chips. I may be wrong, but I believe you can only use 512k chips on the Voodoo 1.

@kentlisius7675 Жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to let it run for awhile and see what you find. I’m positive all the extra memory would lead to an even more abstract rendering!

@ATomRileyA Жыл бұрын

I wonder if you could put faster memory chips if such a thing exists in this chip, as the voodoos were often limited to their memory clock speed when overclocking. Great project loving your channel.

@Johnnii360 Жыл бұрын

Very nice mod! But wished there were a memory mod for Voodoo 1 & 2 to use a newer memory type because these old EDO RAMs are very rare and expensive nowadays.

@JohnSmith-iu8cj Жыл бұрын

Would be interesting to see performance improvements in benchmarks

@nalinux Жыл бұрын

If you use good solder, you don't need aditionnal flux. I've been building circuits boards for 30 years, some double side, and quite never use flux. It's mainly a new tendance, useful for SMD. I won't say it doesn't help, but it's not mandatory. Your solders are super clean on those memory !

@gianni_schicchi Жыл бұрын

When he's doing that row of traces on the IC though, I do find flooding the area with flux prevents bridging.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Man, I follow Louis Rossmann - what do you expect 😂

@WiiNV Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts L🤭L 🍏🐍

@volo870 Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Do you go on an Apple swearing rant each time you do soldering? 🤣 Also, how do you clean your PCBs? My method of swiping them with isopropanol soaked cotton swabs makes all parts hairy.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I use a brush and do 2 or 3 rounds of cleaning with quite a lot of isopropanol. I could imagine that cheap toothbrush would also work well. Then one more round with a strong paper towel - nothing that dissolves like toilet paper. I think Louis ruined Apple for me - not my mug of beer 🍺 But I wouldn't dare to try to repair and Apple product, still don't understand PP3V4 😂

@eugenb9017 Жыл бұрын

Nice video, I remember watching one of your videos quite a while ago, when you had just a few hundreds subs. You are on the right track, but a suggestion - try not to milk an idea too much. Experiment with new things, add new content, this will help you gain more subscribers and keep your current subscribers.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I agree. I felt the same about releasing the same mod again, but I wanted the improved version out as soon as possible. I believe this will be the final version anyway since it works quite well now. Thanks for following my channel!

@chrislowe3799 Жыл бұрын

Excellent Work! Am definately going to look into doing something similar with my Orchid Righteous 3D cards - they have the memory arranged in columns of 1 and 7 modules, so completely different from the Maxi Gamer 3D. Not sure if there is physically enough space between the memory modules though. I haven't looked into the specs of the 512KB memory modules used on the Voodoo in great detail yet, however, I image it would be possible to simplify the entire design down somewhat to a single 2/4MB memory IC with all the I/O, address and control lines routed as appropriate. I wonder if it would be possible to easily "disable" the onboard memory (maybe hold WE, OE low?) so you could effectively replace all the original onboard memory with faster/lower latency memory? Just thinking...

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Hehe, glad that this mod brings your mind into overdrive :) I also have the Orchid. And I can tell you that there is not enough space for this mod. But, I am already thinking of modifying this card too, but this time - no soldering required. It will be hard and probably requires way more time, but I want to give it a shot!

@kokodin5895 Жыл бұрын

stupid question are all memory chips connectedin paralell with only selecting logic being different or is the every memory chip completly different bus? because if they are all conected on the graphic card together you can reduce number of sockets to one or two per board and make interfacing with any voodoo revision that much easier tthe question is how much you rely on the sockets for mechanical connection and how much is actually need to be data connection

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

No stupid question, and I still struggle to understand as well, but here is my attempt to shed light into your question. Hopefully someone corrects me if I am wrong. The data lines of each memory chip are connected to different pins on the Voodoo chipset. The memory chips have 16 bits for data. Since you have 4 chips, and each chip takes 1/4th of the data, you get a 64bit data bus between the Voodoo chip and the memory array (4 memory chips). So, no, you cannot get away with one socket. Also, the wiring is different between TMU and FBI.

@kokodin5895 Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts ok now it make sense i remember in old days i moded amiga 600 for a friend with just stacking chips on top of each other, and they shared all the data lines exept select pins, same memory chips , different use the thing is friend wanted stacking 2 + 2 chips but i stacked 3 + 1 on top of oryginal 2 because otherwise keyboard would't fit so i was kind of thinking of similar shenanigans here

@hgbugalou Жыл бұрын

Next you should look at adding a second FBI chip. I believe the architecture supported multiple FBI and TMU chips, it just was never implemented commercially.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Yes, based on a document from 3dfx, this should be possible. Unfortunately, I believe this is way out of reach of my capabilities. I would love to be able to do that - would make me an instant hero in the retro community :)

@PROSTO4Tabal Жыл бұрын

this could be perhaps possible with another pcb design ? 🤔

@hgbugalou Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Yeah it would be a heck of a challenge but at the same time, adding RAM was one too. 😁

@stefanl5183 Жыл бұрын

Wasn't there an "obsidian" board that had multiple chips? I believe it may have only been used in arcade machines. Also there was something called "mercury" but I believe that involved multiple boards. Don't know if the regular drivers would support that or not.

@logannosleep5 Жыл бұрын

Could always check traces and for solder bridges using a ohm meter in continuity testing mode....

@jackdaniels8105 Жыл бұрын

oh... those soda bridges...

@wisid Жыл бұрын

cool rig, how does this compare to the new 3dfx driver for vm's what's the max memory on that

@gamergod9182 Жыл бұрын

"it's not required to watch those videos" well, screw you, I'm gonna watch them anyway!

@vannadij Жыл бұрын

Такая идея у меня еще появлялась в 2002 году. Только с видеокартой 3Dfx Voodoo 3 (Velocity 100) 8Mb. Хотел увеличить до 16Mb )) Спустя 21 год, что-то подобное сделали))

@Red_Avenger Жыл бұрын

А что это даёт в реальности? Если то или иное приложение рассчитано на работу с 8-ю мегабайтами видеопамяти, то 16 оно ведь использовать не станет, если разработчик софта не предусмотрел такого (анализа объёма доступной видеопамяти)?

@vannadij Жыл бұрын

@@Red_Avenger в том то и дело, что тогда уже нехватало 8мб памяти, для игрушек к примеру. Вот и появлялись такие мысли)

@Mr_Meowingtons Жыл бұрын

what is the spacing on the ram chips? i have a Dimond ver of this card i cant add to the FBI but i can with the TMU ram.. but the spacing might not be the same.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I recently got a Diamond Voodoo card. Unfortunately, both memory sets are not compatible with the expansion board.

@LawnMowersThingsThatMakeNoise Жыл бұрын

How much memory can a voodoo 3 3000 handle ?

@volo870 Жыл бұрын

This mod is effectively perfect. The only thing I'd do - is put a three-pin jumper or a switch, so the jumper does not get lost when jolted.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

True, I could have done that. Learned something - Thank you!

@volo870 Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts No sweat. Most of us shall just solder the jumper permanently. The beauty of this mod is that you may forget it exists, after it's done.

@zedrathzerathul9132 Жыл бұрын

Is there a possibility to make a version that works with the L shaped memory configuration of the orchid voodoo card?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I have the Orchid as well, but this concept won't work on that card. The memory chips are too close to each other. But I am working on something universal that will work on any Voodoo, regardless of memory layout. I need more time to do this though as I don't have the right equipment yet - and I don't want to reveal too much yet 😉

@CaelThunderwing Жыл бұрын

could something like this (the concept) work on the velocity 100/ Voodoo 3 1000 8Mb edition?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I think it should work since there are 8 and 16 MB versions. But with different memory packaging (I think they all use SG-RAM), it will be difficult to mount a memory expansion board.

@tobiwonkanogy2975 Жыл бұрын

i wonder how many more possible boards could be made better than stock via this method .i guess it depends on memory address management.

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I agree. Many S3 cards come to mind that support up to 4MB, but have only space for 4 memory chips on the PCB. I may actually look into modifying one of those - just for fun.

@irwinfletcher1210 Жыл бұрын

So i heard you say in regards to the chips that you knew they were good because you had already tested them, did you mean in sockets on another card or is there a standalone memory tester that can test these soj chips that i have not heard of? ive been looking for one to test SOJ40 and SOJ42 for a while but nothing =/

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I used them in sockets. The very first memory expansion board I made was with sockets on both sides. I have not seen any other way test those chips either.

@cybcarr Жыл бұрын

whoa. how can ppl outcome with such idea? even how to invent it? Fantastic!

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I cannot take all the credit :) I found DIY instructions online and turned it into a PCB. But I am happy you enjoyed the video and like the idea! Thanks for watching my videos!

@cybcarr Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts thank you for sharing too! Lovely place is yours! Might be too hot for me tho. :D

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Yeah, Dubai is pretty warm. I am here since 2006 and got used to the temperatures. Still enjoy living here!

@cmdrarcturus8197 Жыл бұрын

This mod looks very promising... do you think something similar to this will work for other, non-3Dfx cards? I have an old Creative CT-6200 (VLB 3D accelerator) that only has 2MB of VRAM. It is capable of doing OpenGL but only with 4MB, and the proprietary memory module is ultra-rare. Obviously, I can't use this exact PCB as the chips are spaced differently, but in theory, it might be possible?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Yes, it should be possible since the card can be upgraded with a memory module. But how exactly you could make your own memory expansion depends on the card. The Voodoo is easy because the memory requires only a few extra connections to the graphic chips. It may be a totally different situation for the CT-6200. It may even be better to put in the effort to replicate the proprietary memory module.

@zoiuduu Жыл бұрын

very noob question, what is that trasnparent gel ?

@ppolo12 Жыл бұрын

Flux for solder

@m4nt1c0r3s Жыл бұрын

or it is the silicon glue that is used for the memory socket, if you are asking for that.

@orbitaretroretro3907 Жыл бұрын

Nice upgrade but still I think the main problem might be the drivers to use the 8mb. Which ones are you using? Thanks

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I use the latest official drivers from 3Dfx. I am assuming that the drivers support the extra memory as I could see a difference in 3DMark 99 for "The Race" benchmark. But I am not sure. Could be that I have to test different drivers first (like MesaFX or Wicked3D). I am not even sure if they support the first Voodoo card.

@orbitaretroretro3907 Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts i think that canopus pure3d and miro highscore are drivers that really support that extra memory but don't know about the rest... 3dmark might do something different... And dos games are also different than windows ones ... We should investigate on the subject

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I agree 😁

@Charapaha Жыл бұрын

One question, why not giving holes to all pins?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

When the socket is pressed on the chip, the walls bend. If there would be holes on every pin, the socket would be soldered in this condition and could lead to a bad connection. The corner pins are supported by the corners of the socket, so they do not bend, but the center of the socket is the worst.

@Charapaha Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts seems reasonable, good job.

@cocusar Жыл бұрын

I like this mod, but I'm not fan of the ssop sockets. how about removing the original chips and making a pcb board with castellated holes in the places where the original ram was placed? you could reuse the address and data lines from both groups of ram chips. now, the only issue is that this uses more space, and it probably won't fit if you keep the adapter the same size as the voodo card... I guess a little bit of overhang won't be that bad :) and you'll not get any connection issues, and you can make the voodoo card stock really easily

@nalinux Жыл бұрын

Making brand new boards would be quite a job ... Certainly possible, but a lot of work. Using sockets is a quick way to validate the concept. IIRC, some Voodoo cards had a daughter board to allow extension (Obsidian , see thedodgegarage for details).

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

When I thought about making those PCBs, one requirement for me was to not alter the Voodoo card too much. I am working on an idea where I wouldn't even need to solder the wires to the TMU and the FBI chip. The goal was to preserve the original, but anybody can try - the DIY guide and the PCB layout are available for anybody to use.

@alejandroaguilar9038 Жыл бұрын

What kind of Gain did you see ?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

Until now, not much. The extra memory allows to run some games at 800x600, at a cost of frame rate. I only saw 3DMark99 Benchmark 1 (Race) to improve quite a bit. I am still testing other games and hope to see a difference. If not, we will see different games of that era and refresh our memories.

@ruben_balea Жыл бұрын

What are the heatsinks for? were you overclocking it? 😉

@nalinux Жыл бұрын

Which heatsinks ?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

I put some heatsinks on the Voodoo chips. I don't think they are necessary, but I had those heatsinks. The chips get quite hot, so I put them on his card.

@ruben_balea Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Ah, I never had a Voodoo so I thought they didn't have them because they didn't get hot.

@nalinux Жыл бұрын

@@ruben_balea They can get quite hot. Mainly one of the chips. So even if there was no heatsink on stock cards, it may be a good idea to protect them a bit. It's even worse on Voodoo 2.

@Krivulda Жыл бұрын

How do you test the memory?

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

My first mod with the old PCB had sockets on both sides (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pt13l9physC6c4U.html). I used chips that I have tested in this PCB.

@Krivulda Жыл бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Ah, okay. I search for reliable way to test memory on/for Voodoo cards and cannot find anything sadly

@kabalu Жыл бұрын

are you the scottish adolf?

@PROSTO4Tabal Жыл бұрын

Your mod will only work properly with updated bios from proper 8MB version Skywell Magic 3D Plus

@orbitaretroretro3907 Жыл бұрын

What bios? I've never seen that voodoo 1 cards have bios... Only the voodoo rush, banshee V3,4,5 Or do you mean drivers? I just got a magic 3d plus1 and don't know what drivers to use

@default1647 Жыл бұрын

Make 256mb mod or 512mb 😂😅😊 :D

@colonthree Жыл бұрын

I really cannot place this English accent. It sounds like German, but Arabic...? ;w;

@bitsundbolts Жыл бұрын

A German living in Dubai for quite some time.

@colonthree Жыл бұрын

Oh wow, that explains it. ;w;

@AlbertRavoir Жыл бұрын

Very very too much flux

@homelessEh Жыл бұрын

HES A MAAAD MAN AAA MAAAAAD MAN!!!

@homelessEh Жыл бұрын

2032 voodoo 5 with 128gb of hbm.. wait for it lols

@homelessEh Жыл бұрын

and an ati rage with a usb port so you can plug in a usb thumb stick of X size for custom memory size up to 1tb .. lols

@FingerinUrDaughter Жыл бұрын

how much memory are you adding? and are you running homebrew games? cause if not, pretty much 100% chance that any extra memory youre throwing on isnt being accessed by any games youre playing.