Best reply I've read here so far.

Wrestling n judo feels better to me

Agree. I like anti grappling

Judo

EXACTLY ! A REAL ATTACKER WILL TACKLE YOU OR SUCKER PUNCH YOU . THAT MEANS THE FIGHT HAS A HUGE PERCENTAGE OF BEING ON THE GROUND ! ITS A NO BRAINER MOST FIGHTS END UP ON THE GROUND !

Very true

You're in a training environment with people you know , go and compete in real life in an adrenaline filled setting with a crowd and your forearms are going to cramp from gripping a gi way harder than you normally do, your lungs are breathing fire, and a 6 min match is going to feel like an eternity. Fighting is illegal and if you don't do it all the time you're not going to be as composed as you might think .

There's no fair game on a street fight. It won't be one to one. May be one to two; three; or even more. You can't lock a person on the ground when you have more than two opponents.

@@TheAnsonysc that's not correct. There is not only ONE fight scenario. And who said anything about locking someone on the ground? If you don't have ground game, you're not getting off the ground in the first place.

That's one of the first lessons in bjj, not to go into panic flight mode when your getting crushed from above. Took awhile for me. Felt like I was being buried alive.

10 -15 yrs ago most people didn't know any martial arts, nowadays you need to be mindful that the person may know 1 or more arts. Doesn't matter how good you are on Ju jitsu, concrete is going to mess you both up.

Not the stay out of jail garbage, that is for those that are going to run. if you are engaging? look to throw first. Might mean jail, but the trade off is worth not getting wrecked.

Also, Bee Jay Jay is Gee A Why 😆😆😆

Not true knowing a lot of styles is worse then perfecting one. since u will be garbage on all of them and that won't help u

Ive seen a well placed head butt do some serious fuken work! From chest mount no less!

De escalation or failing that close the distance and take down. In a real fight there’s usually no time for effective striking except for knees/ elbows if you get the chance.

I agree. However, what someone "automatically goes for" is entirely based on what is happening. If someone grabs you, striking is an option, but more than likely, you would have to use grappling first to get out. Jiu jitsu and MMA is all about using what works and responding to someone based on what they are doing.

I think training in striking and grappling and ground work. Getting over each fear. And feeling confident in each

Grappling becomes dangerous when there’s more than one opponent. As you’re on the ground, another one or more can kick your head in or stab you. Yet it can be useful for nullifying a very dangerous puncher.

Fact is if you can’t take punches you’ll lose every REAL fight you’re in, keep your ego in check, try and use your ground skills at a bar and you’ll be stabbed or kicked repeatedly in the head in no time, seen it happen over and over.

You should always be wary of a frightened opponent a cornered animal will do anything to escape, I heard story of a division 1 wrestler who got into a street fight he took the guys back and was cranking the neck pulling back on his forehead , Dude freaked managed to get a knife with out being noticed had a start swinging over his shoulder , he got him in the neck and the wrestler bled out. I know another dude personally who was good at ground game and strong as a ox got stabbed in the inner leg, when the stabby guy thought he was going to be killed by a choke. Never drop you'r guard i guess is the moral.

@@Mlotshaw1 I've got an escalation scale that starts with groin kick. I don't want to go to the ground ever. I actually posted this because the other day I got to shut down an angry security guard's take down, he arm dragged my into side headlock and I'm not new, I let him burn his grips and I could see the fear when I sprawled and swam my arm into the guillotine I did just to distract him, then took his back. I still hate rear naked. If I get a good guillotine I'll be able to put them to sleep in a few seconds like ten to twenty (I got long arms) but my first line of defense is side kicks or spinning side/back, Ive worked on ground game and TKD on and off for about fifteen years. Now working on more Kung Fu and Judo and picking up break dancing.

@@ComicusFreemanius if you like kung fu and breakdancing you would love capoeira

@@Mlotshaw1 Frill back then I knew it was cool but I wish I'd actually started trying to dance back then but I was too dumb. I could sort of do it my crescents are jumpy and high and my hooks I can put the hand on the ground and spin it pretty.

@@OneLoneMan One of my best friends in NC was stabbed at nineteen because some lunatic thought he was someone else we knew who stole from him. If someone looks like they have nothing to lose run, kick or pick up a stick.

I did Judo back in the day (pre-2000s so 50/50 standing vs. ground) plus wrestling in high school. In most of my Judo career, I won on the ground, mostly by submissions. However, I've been in two street fights and I never considered going to the ground. The original commenter is correct. Arguing over "never" is stilly. You don't want to want to go to the ground and if there is any way to avoid it, you should. Going to the ground... 1. Removes the biggest self-defense option you have... the ability to run away. 2. Removes your ability to see other people, face them, and defend yourself. 2+ vs. one is brutal, but at least standing you can run. 3. The ground in dangerous in a real fight where biting, eye poking, grabbing a rock, smashing your head against the pavement, bottles, etc. 4. It's much harder to deal with a heavier or stronger foe on the ground. Say a 140lb woman facing a 170lb man. At least in Judo you have a chance to do a throw or sweep. 5. Your only option on the ground is to actually break someone's arm, leg, or choke them unconscious. Throws you have more control of the damage -- especially if you don't really want to hurt your foe -- a drunk at a party, a shoplifter, etc. Also, what do you do if they tap or say they give up? If you let them up, they are effectively 100% and you have to do it again. 6. Because of #5, many people see attempting to do this to someone on the ground as unfair or a 'lethal' escalation. People now have to fight back with everything and third parties are much more likely to intervene. 7. Ground takes too long. A throw is typically a few seconds and most people have no idea that it's happening. Fight can be over quickly. Even against untrained folks ground takes much longer. 8. Ground commits before you know who you are facing. If you take someone down and they turn out to be a wrestler, Judo, another BJJ person, you can't change your mind. Standing, you always have the choice of going to the ground later. 9. If you throw or sweep someone, and stay standing, you have a natural pause and a dominant position. They take the damage, you can give them instructions to stay down, there is the overt threat of kicking them while down, and it is actually trivial in Judo to thrown someone trying to stand -- which is why the stop matches and stand both if that position is reached. 10. There are armlocks and chokes which can be applied form the standing position -- many specifically designed for that. Those are often perfect as they are applied quickly, you still can run, face others, etc. and can still throw them if they 'submit' and want to keep fighting. BJJ is certainly better than nothing. However, even a BJJ or wrestler is better doing a take down and standing over a person in most cases. Only, if you are going to do that... Judo is a better choice as you aren't going against your training.

@@BW022I agree with you. Judo is better for real life street fighting situations. You can end things much quicker than rolling around on the ground like an idiot.

Even standing grappling is risky in a "street fight", as soon as you get entangled with one opponent (like in kumikata), you are vulnerable to his buddy attacking you from behind and not being able to disengage. For self defense you want to escape from being grabbed or taken down, not grapple or take down an attacker.

Yes man judo is better for street self defense then BJJ

Judo is just better. Period.

That's sort of Chewie's point though. As a grappler, most of the time it won't unless I want it to. As opposed to being untrained and susceptible to poorly executed takedowns that some random asshole learned from "muh MMA".

Just don't fight? Seems easy to me I dunno

@@jamesn3122 yeah that's kind of the same problem as with fights going to the ground. Absolutely a reasonable person can minimize risk but if you are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person, you can end up in a situation where you weren't the person who gets to choose whether there will be a fight.

@@jamesn3122 ah ok and what if someone slap you 40 times in the face or kick your girlfriend? You will just stand there and wait patiently?

@@irsh2786 I would duck after 39 slaps.

This is pretty much the end of discussion. Exactly right, you’re not the only one that gets a vote.

No. 3 is the real winner here. BJJ should teach you how to get off the ground if you end up there or how to leverage it for yourself if you end up there, but in these days and ages I feel like anyone who doesn’t cross train is just asking to beat by someone who does what they don’t. Strikers are eventually gonna get out grappled and grapplers eventually gonna get punched or kicked out if they fight enough.

Nothing wrong with going to the ground in a street fight at all . I have been in many . It’s a much faster finish and usually final

I’ve heard that mentality referenced a lot, but I’ve never actually heard someone say that for real.

Jiu jitsu is all about seeing red! We strive to let our emotions take over and hurt people, that's what it's all about! Hell yeah

I was talking to a couple young guys looking at joining our BJJ gym. One of them genuinely, and with all seriousness, said the “I see red” line. I lost it

@@Awkwardly_Funny lol, it's so alpha. I wish I was that cool!

@@Awkwardly_Funny ima guess he's gonna snap or nap, not tap.

@@OneLoneMan Your treating every situation as if that’ll happen fact of the matter is fights are unpredictable and how you approach them should depend on the situation. In a one on one fight for example let’s say a larger person tries to rob a smaller person without a weapon of course BJJ would be great for that conversely a striking art would work much better if let’s say your fighting a dude and his buddy is on the side lines watching your one size fits all approach is ridiculous and just plain incorrect.

​@bennettfender9927 while I see what your saying and I'll agree fights are situational. I would never wanna end up on the ground voluntarily. I'll also always assume the worst and that they have a weapon.

@@MexicanfNinja If they have a weapon I’ll shoot ‘em that’s plan at least I don’t mean that bragging by the way but let’s be realistic bare hands vs a weapon very rarely ends well too many variables. I will also say though I’d imagine it’s a lot harder to grab a weapon of your being controlled by a BJJ guy vs a Muay Thai guy striking with you.

OVER 200 street fights recorded on KZfaq, BJJ has won all accept 1. (That I have seen) And it usually ends less than 90 seconds.

@@bennettfender9927 Well no duh. I'm referring to when your on the ground. Are you only going to control hands. God forbid you go to choke them out and they start fishing in their pockets or you get soccer kicked by someone else. Im not saying bjj or ground game is ineffective in a fight. In a streetfight however unless your using it to get control and get up or ground and pound you just open yourself up to unnecessary danger in an already unnecessarily dangerous situation.

How long did you hang out in top position though? I am guessing that bjj has taught you to stay there once you have it Makes you a perfect target to get head kicked by someone from the sidelines that is either their friend or some rando that has no clue who the bad guy is and thinks you are holding this guy down so you can beat because you want to beat them senseless

What do you mean by training "grabbing"? What is that ?

​@Driver that could happen, there is no perfect fight system that will protect you from attacks by multiple people, you could say the same of any martial art or even mixed martial arts systems If I'm attacked I rather have martial arts experience of any kind than none. As a thought experiment, if you were transported into a body knowing you were about to be attacked, would you take the body of an experienced BJJ practitioner with all their fitness and skills or someone with no martial arts experience?

@@andrewglover1739 I think you missed the point of what I was saying, bjj has some very useful techniques but strategies used for sport and strategies used to survive a a violent street crime are worlds apart Hanging out on the ground is super risky no matter what your experience level is. I agree it doesn't matter what your trained in, you are at the mercy of anyone around you stepping in and taking advantage of your compromised position There is no effective way to block soccer kicks when you are on the ground, its exactly the reason its banned in the UFC. Even punches are devastating in that situation and end a lot of mma fights

@@driver3899 I get what you are saying but it's arguing against a position that I don't think many BJJ practitioners take. Anyone claiming that BJJ makes you invulnerable to attack is just being silly. Same could be said in any martial art Also being on the feet in a confrontation is very dangerous, many strikes are at their most explosive and dangerous when standing. BJJ is a system built around negating that A guy I vaguely knew as a kid was killed in a fight, he was standing at the time and was hit on the back of the head from behind with a glass bottle. That danger exists in any confrontation or position. BJJ teaches descalation, control, technique and fitness all of which are incredibly useful if you are attacked. It's most useful 1 on 1 for sure but so wrestling, boxing, judo, karate or MMA

Yeah but what about women? I know of 3 women in my life who have been attacked by men throwing then down and attempting sexual assault while they were either on their way back from work or jogging. One was a man grabbing her by the hair dragging he into a car and she escaped by kicking and biting. Its not a choice for half the world to look for fights. They just happen.

Best self defense is your 100 meter dash. Disengage, run away

@@jamesn3122 if someone else made the decision to fight you, odds are they didn't pick someone who looked faster and more athletic than them.

As a woman, bjj would have to be the best form of training for self defence. Mastering the fight or flight or freeze impulse alone can go a long way. PS don't try to speak for "half the world" because most of us women don't get drawn into fights and altercations as often as men do.

Sometimes, the fight looks for you.

The dojo wont matter, maybe not even the ring, but the street? You better have a strong up and down game. Size and strength next.

The other one he always says is, "grappling is SO COMMON in fighting that in a sport where it isn't even ALLOWED, boxing requires that there is a referee there to break up grappling between two people who have NO DESIRE to grapple. All they want to do it knock someone out with punches and still find themselves grappling!"

Wise man and thats exactly what I am thinking! Will take up bjj or judo, to compliment my Shotokan, so I have a much better chance Not to be taken down, or if, I have a much better chance of getting right back up again!

@@swedbp1 because boxing is a sport designed to fight for an audience to entertain them, grappling isn't fighting, that's why boxers die every year it's a sport designed to fight the entire time with little breaks

@@eclisis5080 grappling isn't fighting? This is only said by someone who hasn't done it. I have trained boxing, kick boxing, and jujitsu. From the outside you may think that grappling isn't fighting but between striking arts, and grappling arts, I assure you, when you are grappling, every part of you is involved, CONSTANTLY. In boxing you get PLENTY of breaks. There are LONG lulls of stalling, circling, setting up angles, followed by a flurry and then stalking and circling again, followed by a 1 minute break every three minutes. Training is done on stop watches so boxers learn to pace themselves and know where they are in the round. In grappling there is still time for assessment but once contact is made, that assessment is made in the literally constant push/pull pressure that engages every muscle from your toes to your head. Every millisecond is resistance and this can go in for 5,10,20 minutes, no breaks. It's like pushing a car in neutral while while carrying groceries and lifting weights all at once. When you are a beginner, I promise, you won't think you are in a fight, you will think you are being murdered. The struggle is akin to being in the ocean and not knowing how to swim. The more effort you put in, the faster you drown. Grappling is fighting and it is a fight in every plane, all at once. It is a 3d, 360 degree field that is ever shifting. The subtleties are mind boggling and torque and leverage are king. Boxers grapple and tie each other up to get strikes to halt for a bit. Grappling is VERY effective at stopping strikes as boxers prove in every match. Take a month of a grappling art. Go up against someone that strikes and does grappling (an MMA person of even modest experience). You will experience that grappling is a world that takes fighting to a whole other dimension.

@@swedbp1 Grappling can be used in a fight but it's not fighting fighting is two people exchanging blows, in boxing you can't prevent your opponent from fighting you, which in grappling the point is to control the person's body, boxing is designed so you have no choice but to fight the entire time, because it's entertaining

Right. The only martial art in which we tried to spar multiple people was ninjutsu. And I never seen anyone defeat two opponent in the dojo. Spar two people at the same time just makes you realize how much it sucks. You literally can't have the focus on both and you get grabbed and hit from 2 sides. You just learn how you should try to put them "in a line" enough to run away thought an exit or whatever. Maybe the best combo would be boxing + judo to deal with multiple opponents, but still... At least bjj proved that, with no weapons or other opponents involved, it can deal with a single bigger and stronger opponent, and that's a lot imo.

Respect 🙏

bro they could just get behind you and drive you off a cliff how can you even practice when your legs don't work

I didn't hit the teenager for the record lol just grabbed his leg and he became useless while i fought his brother with the other hand.

Indeed, as high-level MMA has shown, ironically the best way to keep a fight from going to the ground is to train for years in martial arts that are all about going to the ground

Imagine live drilling a groin kick, oof

@@OneLoneMan ?

But if you know wrestling you have an even better chance at dictating the terms and whether you end up on the ground at all. Add a bit of training in BJJ and some striking but the core skills are what you get from wrestling.

Most fights end on the floor because the police is trained to immobilize you on the floor... its policy. BJJ is good to get fall on the ground and get back up. MuayThai/Wrestling or judo would be more ''street'' oriented. BJJ is the Karate of the 90s , but i love the BJJ sparring it does test your power. The ''i am more confident and modest'' thats all Martial Arts Students at a good gym would say ;)

When I started watching fights (civilian fights, not athletes) I saw pretty quickly that a fight was normally decided before anyone got to the ground. Keep in mind, a fight on the ground might be there because someone was knocked to the ground.

@Alexander Kilburg You can watch countless fights where people end up grappling each other clumsily and end up on the ground. I see it all the time.

keep it up --- good luck and learn to box some too... Perhaps some simple kickboxing of some type using low kicks and punches

​@@rwdchannel2901 haha maybe, but the selling point is there I think, in that the grappling did save my ass to begin with!

sounds like a good combo

@rwdchannel2901 Well I am sure with the right amount of training and skill u could use any system (well the good ones at least), to win a fight. The rules in mma were changed for entertainment purposes, which ended up benefiting strikers. And note, " from my experience", 9/10 fights ended up un a grappling scenario but I am sure a good enough striker could avoid being clinched by a low level grappler. And cool thing, I am moving soon and my new school I will train both Muay Thai 1/3 and Jiu-jitsu 2/3.

@@rwdchannel2901 You may be taken to the ground instead of taking someone to the ground. Just saying.

There is a scenario where going to the ground is better and that's if your opponent is a good boxer with no ground experience

My pleasure!

Got bored of bjj, and started going to the striking class more often and rolling less. And for sure knowing how to deal with strikes is essential. Or how to set up your grappling from being punched at. Striking and grappling are like the yin and the Yang of fighting. You need to know how to do both to be able to fight.

sounds like a plan

This is super well thought out. Police Officers are among the biggest proponents of the "don't take it to the ground" crowd. Ironically, whenever things get a little wild, they always take it to the ground. Police academies even teach high risk handcuffing for violent felons, and the position starts with the suspect on the knees or on the ground. Most trained fighters don't want the ground fight... they don't want the fight at all. But sometimes the fight chooses us, and the ground is where it ends up.

@@whtkl623irl7 the fight doesn't "choose" cops cops choose to fuck with hardworking honest people and sometimes they fight back because theyve had enough of their dignity and rights being trampled by some fat 🐷 on a power trip

But instead of respecting the threat of striking and top positions and pinning, we gladly rest on our backs because those threats are removed. No one talks about self defense in real terms. It's just this abstract hypothetical 1 on 1 in perfect conditions but conditions are never perfect. I guess I'm looking for combatives but end up getting barimbolo 😂

You realize theres no rules in the street, ganging up and weapons allowed, big man.

@@bipolarpunt5721 "um did you know that if id win that id win? Checkmate atheist"

@@CB-pi5hcAt least you use "if", and have some sense of reality. The difference between a fair jiu jitsu fight and the street, is weapons.

Bang bang

Street Fighting, or simulated aggression is the best experience

I 've had fingers broken on both hands due to bare knuckles fighting. I have steel in one finger now However I have had far fewer than your 29.. I too am older and can't handle more. I took wrestling way back in the day and it helped me.

What line of work you have to fight that much?

Top of the head…Yep…Hardest part of the body. Prize fighters from the old bare knuckle days would simply time their opponents movement and drop their heads so the attacker would break his hands when they punched them. It’s an old technique and quite effective. The guy you fought probably knew nothing about this technique, but it is something to remember.

What style of karate

you can't plan it all out if you were being robbed or mugged.

@J BEST if someone is robbing you alone give your wallet if you're out numbered. Maybe carry a dummy iPhone if you're in a dangerous area. You can give them that. No point in getting shot or stabbed. Again don't fight alone.

@@FastAndEasy2010 Sure buddy you have all the answers..

@@Cuffsmaster damn straight.

How old were they ...12?

Its the same if you learn basic striking. Most guys are white belts at striking too. If you can get to the blue belt equivalent of boxing/muay thai and also jujitsu , youll never have to worry ever again.

@@muaythairaja They don’t need to be 12. I had it happen to me with a guy who was 33 and he was helpless against my 3 years of BJJ.

​@@pahwraith no really , striking usually ends in grappling and of the opponent is bigger or stronger he could over power you, also striking has a probabality of exchange and lucky hit could end bad , grappling and bjj for self defense with some judo is total control of your opponent. Grappling is far superior to striking.

@@pahwraith 💯

Excellent point. People will absolutely fight dirty, including eye gouges, biting, hair pulling, improvised weapons and projectiles. Throwing hot liquids, smashing glass bottles, flinging dirt in your eyes. There is no sportsmanship in a street fight.

I'd like to learn eye jabs because I think they would probably beat grappling in an actual altercation, but I don't think eye gouging is all that intuitive until the fight is already effectively won. I've read a few cases, but they were all cases where the gouger was winning by a wide margin. It makes sense, but most people fall into a punching mindset in a real fight.

If you ever come back to visit be sure to drop into the gym.