Candle Making WET SPOTS (Jar Adhesion) | Big Deal? What Can You Do?

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Wade (BLACK TIE BARN)

Wade (BLACK TIE BARN)

Күн бұрын

Candle making Wet Spots on your jars? Big Deal? What can you do about it? In this video I talk about what wet spots (jar adhesion issues) are, if they matter, why they happen, and what you can do to prevent them or fix them if they already exist.
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Пікірлер: 126
@katelillo1932
@katelillo1932 Жыл бұрын
I’m not a candle maker but I am a long time candle burner. I can attest to the fact that a non-maker does not care about wet spots. Until I started to learn about candle making, I didn’t know they were even significant enough to have a name. I thought wet spots were just a jar candle thing. And I suppose, they kind of are.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Lol. Exactly Kate! Thanks for sharing. :)
@user-nj8hk4bf4q
@user-nj8hk4bf4q 24 күн бұрын
This is very calming for me.. I almost cried thinking I ruined up my candles. Thank you.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn 23 күн бұрын
Of course!
@cathyscandlecreations7406
@cathyscandlecreations7406 Жыл бұрын
I belive most of us that make candles, no matter the wax type, we are way harder on ourselves than customers ever could be! Bravo again on a wonderful, educational informative video Wade. Thank you. I'll be sharing with my group!🤩💜
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Thanks Cathy! Go for it. :)
@1fitmama
@1fitmama 3 ай бұрын
Thank you! Being a bit OCD, I kill myself and sometimes the scent of my candles trying to make my candle look perfect. I just have to give myself permission to let it go, I guess. It's so difficult though. I'll usually try to cover the worst areas with my label, but I always still feel awful about my imperfect candles and feel guilty charging what they should be worth
@billybailey3132
@billybailey3132 Жыл бұрын
30 seconds of this video reduced my stress levels by at least 3%, so, Wade, I thank you.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Lol. Glad to hear that!
@karliehu7115
@karliehu7115 7 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for the video, it is very well made and I learned a lot. Keep up he good work!
@1979rendy
@1979rendy 8 ай бұрын
I liked this guy enough to watch it all the way through
@DawnClark-tb2up
@DawnClark-tb2up 8 ай бұрын
I like this version of the reviews sometimes it’s hard to find the part 2 I have not tried of these scents yet. I am new and just getting my start.
@nancyperez4246
@nancyperez4246 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the very informative discussion on wet spots.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
👍
@greekozygirl599
@greekozygirl599 Жыл бұрын
OMG you read my mind😅 I needed this video soooo much, thank you Wade!!
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
You're so welcome!
@aaronshearth3671
@aaronshearth3671 Жыл бұрын
Great video! This comes up every day on the Facebook groups.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Yes it does! Feel free to share it if you want. :)
@esetedor5081
@esetedor5081 Жыл бұрын
I am so grateful for all your videos! this has been bugging me and i am just about to launvh my candle business. Thank you.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
❤️
@_xoe
@_xoe Жыл бұрын
Such a great video , gave me so much knowledge and ease 😅
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it!!
@MariaMedina-lj4kt
@MariaMedina-lj4kt 2 ай бұрын
I'm new to this and of course it happened to me and I thought I was doing something wrong, so thank you very much for the clarification.
@candlewhisperer
@candlewhisperer Жыл бұрын
Hello Wade Thomas I am enjoying your tutorials. I am so glad that you are increasing your content daily!!! Wet spots are one of many pet peeves when making candles!!! One time I used a heat gun on a wet spot and it looked better for that day. The next day the wet spot was back!!! Thank you for the suggestions to try to prevent the wet spots. I will definitely try them:)!!! Thank you so much!!! Keep them coming!!!
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
❤️👍
@diegooland1261
@diegooland1261 2 ай бұрын
Thank you for this video. The wet spot issue is driving my business partner and I nuts!!! This is our first year working with glass jars. I guess we'll find out just how much or little customers care about jar adhesion. We sure appreciate you talking about this.
@MisiDarkLilies
@MisiDarkLilies Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate videos like this. 💙 I've been making candles for years and not taking the jump into small business because the imperfections from wet spots and how the surface looks after burning drives me crazy. I also considered just using a tin or opaque jar as mentioned, but I still couldn't get over the hurdle of a rough texture top that is left over from burning. Happy to see you have your new warehouse and storefront in the works! That is super exciting, looking forward to seeing the progress! Congratulations! 🎉
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Thanks Misi. I appreciate that
@nancykelly9712
@nancykelly9712 Жыл бұрын
Bahahaha omg Wade, you have the gift of the gab!! That comment about your wife cracked me right up!! 😂 Yes I'm in learn mode so I'm still at the 'who cares' stage but yes I can see that being really annoying for some makers! Good advice, thanks for taking the time to explain, very helpful!!
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Lol. Thanks Nancy!
@ruslundbiscoe
@ruslundbiscoe Жыл бұрын
Good afternoon, I'm a very new to candle making and I appreciate all the information you have given, I am going with a coco apricot wax and a matte tin, I have not found a glass vessel that calls to me yet. Thank you and keep up the fabulous work.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@IrishQ76
@IrishQ76 Жыл бұрын
I've come to become one with wetstops. If they come they come, if they don't, I do a huge happy dance 🤣🤣
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
we are the same. lol
@ginabaldwin2839
@ginabaldwin2839 Жыл бұрын
I love watching your evolution in these videos. Increasing the graphics/animations & your personality seems to come out more. Your knowledge has been invaluable to me & your sense of humor helps TONS when learning. It also helps those of us that use Candle making as therapy. Thank you! 🙏
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
thank you Gina. Yah, I would do more and more with editing, graphics, etc. But... its either very time consuming or expensive. I already spend WAY too much time on this channel. LOL
@ginabaldwin2839
@ginabaldwin2839 Жыл бұрын
@@BlackTieBarn I & many others are so grateful for what you're able to give! I'm sure it's not lucrative, but very generous! I just recommended the jar adhesion video to someone in a FB Candle making group. 😊 Eventually hoping to work up the confidence to send my candles in for a subscriber review. 😬 Some day! Thanks again!! 💗
@greekozygirl599
@greekozygirl599 Жыл бұрын
This is unbelievably helpful & oh you're so right, when I was just collecting candles, I never once looked at the jar adhesion, all I was worried about was the color, the aroma & whether or not the smell matched the name of the pure essential oil on the jar. Now... 🙄 omg I'm like noooooo😭
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Lol. Glad it was helpful!
@mindyourself167
@mindyourself167 3 күн бұрын
This is by far the best content for candle-making experts!❤️‍🔥 Your videos are always incredibly detailed, well-delivered, and informative, with a unique style that really stands out. I recently had issues with 444 soy wax, like frosting and jar wet spots, which affected adhesion. Your tips have been invaluable. I was wondering, do you think using Vybar 260 at 1% with a softer wax like 464 Golden Brand will help reduce these problems? Thanks so much for all the amazing advice you share! Keep up the fantastic work!
@blueeye681
@blueeye681 Жыл бұрын
A Big Thank You.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@FORTEPodcast
@FORTEPodcast Жыл бұрын
Your channel is legendary! Thank you, Wade! How warm do you pre-heat your jars before you pour your melted wax in the containers?
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Thanks sir. I actually don't. It isn't really a scalable solution and it has minimal long term results anyways, so I don't. I don't want them freezing cold, but room temp is just fine
@DarkusZarvix
@DarkusZarvix Жыл бұрын
I had this wet spot issue with layered candles for an order just last night! I'm in the northeast, US and it is getting cooler now. So, I need to pour my layers sooner because everything is hardening and shrinking quicker now. I do find that it helps prevent that leaking, if wet spots aren't a concern but leaking of colors between layers is, to very lightly re-melt the surface of the layer before pouring the next layer. Just enough to expand that top layer of wax a bit to prevent leaking to the layer below and not enough to need to wait very long before the layer sets back up enough to pour. Having the same color leaking between the wax and jar is better than having an entirely different color do that. It's more forgivable, since the wax might pull away from the surface again anyway. Layered candles are my #1 seller, so I've had a fair share of frustrations. After dealing with frosting constantly when using pure soy wax like I did for a while, I swapped to a wax that has mostly soy but some paraffin too and wet spots are actually so minor in comparison that I barely care about them anymore. XD
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
yes, absolutely. This is great feedback and spot on. Layered candles are more of a pain when it comes to wet spots. Pour temp is critical and they just require more creativity/attention to detail. lol
@spiritualwingsllc7538
@spiritualwingsllc7538 Жыл бұрын
Actually the laying look over mapping I think is a cool effect I like the bleeding affect in my candles.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
❤️
@jessicawhite2619
@jessicawhite2619 Жыл бұрын
I did a complete 180 and switched from igi 4627 to gb 464. I no longer have wet spots (thank goodness), and honestly seeing rough tops and a little bit of frosting over time brings me peace vs seeing a Dalmatian spotted adhesion issue that persists no matter what I do. I do love the 4627 for the HT, it was a good experience over the years, but I am happy and at peace with the 464. I enjoy the challenge of wicking and finding fragrance oils that perform well in the soy wax…now that I’ve used 4627 for many years I have a better idea of what the experience of a really great HT is like and can try my best to replicate the throw with the proper oils and wicks. It will never be as strong, potent, or raw as 4627…but in a way that’s also nice. I find a good HT from 464 even smells different and has a different ambience than the 4627. I found the 4627 to be almost suffocating at times with the HT (I know perhaps no one has said this ever, but it applies to to my taste). Regardless, there hasn’t been a wet spot to be seen..and that is enough for me to love the 464…even if it is a challenging wax to work with on other levels…it’s worth the effort to me.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Haha yah 4627 can be intense. Lol. Glad you found your go to solution. I've had mixed results with 464 and wet spots (depends on jar).
@lisawalker7923
@lisawalker7923 10 ай бұрын
Ok I'll try that
@calcul8tedhealing519
@calcul8tedhealing519 Жыл бұрын
I actually switched to metal tins instead of glass just to avoid this issue. So frustrating. I have tried everything to avoid it. I know it's not a "problem" it just doesn't look professional in my opinion. Thanks Wade 🙏🥰
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
💯 thanks A
@amandag5072
@amandag5072 Жыл бұрын
Have a look at all the jar candles that professionals make... all of them have wet spots. It's a natural behaviour of wax, you can't do anything to stop them,
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
@@amandag5072 ☝
@lonelycreamy
@lonelycreamy Жыл бұрын
I got the same problems. I tried many times to make my candles perfect because I wanted to give away to my friends. Now I wont choose glasses anymore. 😂😂😂
@NaturalMackie
@NaturalMackie Жыл бұрын
Wow I just used to use candles only in blackouts never even bought ones with scents unless they were gifts. I only realized wet spots were a thing when I started watching these videos. If lights up, I’m good.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
exactly. Lol
@jolenetime
@jolenetime 8 ай бұрын
Hey Wade, thanks so much for all the info! I tried my first pour the other day with a beeswax and coconut blend, and it came out well, except I have a ring composed of a thin film of wax around the top of every candle right at the surface of the pour. What would you recommend for this? Thank you, x Jolene
@MisterWhatWhat
@MisterWhatWhat Жыл бұрын
As a customer I would notice wet spots on my Yankee Candles & they never bothered me (looking at one now). As a hobbyist, however, they drive me up the wall because to me it looks unprofessional and ungodly awful lol. Thanks for this video! From personal trial and error I noticed that I do not have this problem if I pour at 120 degrees in a room with an ambient temperature of 75.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Awesome!
@Di1H
@Di1H 6 ай бұрын
I've never had a customer complain but I do notice the ones with the worst wet spots are the last ones to sell in my shop, if they sell at all.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn 6 ай бұрын
Yep! Lol
@MexieMex
@MexieMex Жыл бұрын
You can get hydrophobic sprays that repel water. Is there such a thing as wax-phobic spray? If you can coat the inside of jars with something that is going to repel wax equally, that should eliminate the issue.
@janinesaffioti5345
@janinesaffioti5345 10 ай бұрын
You are very knowledgeable! Thank you for this information, although all the talking is so not relevant! Does it effect? NOPE why does it happen? TEMPERATURE Thats all! Lol I'm sorry I'm just directly to the point! THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION GOD BLESS
@leishaskywalker
@leishaskywalker Жыл бұрын
thank you for the always helpful info! wondering if you've ever used & recommend stearic acid?
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
I use vybar instead which basically is the alternative specifically made for candles. But very rarely haven't I needed to
@leishaskywalker
@leishaskywalker Жыл бұрын
@@BlackTieBarn thank you!
@lenatorres4734
@lenatorres4734 Жыл бұрын
I know the feeling of those wet spots in my candle jar. It drives me nuts. It does seem to help when I heat the jars in the oven. Thank you Wade for all your great advice.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Np Lena!
@greekozygirl599
@greekozygirl599 Жыл бұрын
Wade: "I'm gonna need a minute" 🤣🤣🤣had me cackling😅
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
😂
@IrishQ76
@IrishQ76 Жыл бұрын
Haven't had a problem with my layered candles yet with wetspots luckily.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
thats great. Sounds like you have a good combination of wax type and your pourtemp/process!
@IrishQ76
@IrishQ76 Жыл бұрын
@@BlackTieBarn that or I don't let sit long enough for wet spots to develop. I do all my layered candles in a or two. No waiting for those precious gems sense they the layers are different fragrances also but complement each other and when joined create another wonderful fragrance.
@naobicook2710
@naobicook2710 2 ай бұрын
Thank you for this….. i be so stressed 😅😂
@1fitmama
@1fitmama 3 ай бұрын
Do you feel coating jar sides with a bit of wax you intend to fill glass vessel with and letting that cool before you add the volume of wax would help with adhesion? Just a thought. Haven't tried yet, but thought just thought about it and wanted to get your opinion
@irmakonecny1154
@irmakonecny1154 10 ай бұрын
I've actually seen people make videos complaining about wet-spots, they think that it's a huge air bubble and the complaint is that they are being ripped off, like they aren't getting what they paid for
@lisaguzzardi
@lisaguzzardi Жыл бұрын
You crack me up
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Lol
@marcijo123
@marcijo123 5 ай бұрын
Stores that I’ve boughten candles at never have wet spots
@marikiemarie7622
@marikiemarie7622 Жыл бұрын
I've noticed that thiner containers jars gave given me less wet spots or none at all. And wide mouth jars and flat bases. No curves or dips.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Yah it really depends on yhe glass for sure
@claireelvin-smith5139
@claireelvin-smith5139 8 ай бұрын
Please can I ask, I made candles for the 1st time yesterday and I thought I'd have enough melted wax for 2x large jar candles. I was using a combo of beeswax & soy wax and I think some of the soy evaporated because I tried to melt them together. Next time I will melt the beeswax first, then add the soy. I was left with 2x jars that are not as full as I would like. If I mix more of the same wax and fragrance can I top up the jars with more melted wax? Or will horrible things happen?
@melindaduncan3073
@melindaduncan3073 Жыл бұрын
I have a question I’m sure you could help me out with. Which wax is close or similar to joy wax from nature’s garden? Thank you!!!
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Problend 600 from flaming candle. :)
@teresafransen8180
@teresafransen8180 4 ай бұрын
I love using ec26 because it never has wet spots. However the harmony blend igi4630 is giving more consistent HT but more wet spots. I’m so confused which way wax I want to perfect 😢I’m thinking of getting a frosted jar to solve the issue
@dearmeecha1310
@dearmeecha1310 5 ай бұрын
Just had this happen today. My husband was looking at my testers and said “what’s that” and I told him the whole ordeal. Haha!
@bobbie-jenehenderson7824
@bobbie-jenehenderson7824 Жыл бұрын
There's just some fancy vessels I really want to use but it sadly may not be meant to be. :(
@tradergirl7067
@tradergirl7067 Жыл бұрын
ya hate those!! I usually wait to put my labels on after the wet spot shows up so I can cover them up. but thats not always the way it goes.. and sometimes I can make like 10 candles from the same batch with same temp and some get wet spots and some dont.. go figure. BTW. im not "liying" 😄🤭🤭...
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Yah, I noticed a few errors..... was already uploaded and too late to correct. LOL. Well I could have but didn't want to delay it a day. Lol
@Buttercurls
@Buttercurls Жыл бұрын
Hi thank you for sharing because I have been experiencing wet spots on some of my candles as a new candle Maker. I have another concerning question. I made four candles last night and noticed one of the jars had a crack near the bottom side of the jar. I didn't noticed it until the wax turned solid. I poured each candle around 161 degree. I'm using soy/ coconut wax. Is there anything I can do to save that candle? It came out pretty good but I'm concerned that may be a safety issue. I'm not sure if it was cracked before I poured or not. I'm using 8 ounce jelly jars. I would appreciate any advice please.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Are you saying the wax is cracked or the jar? If it's the jar.... then no, I wouldn't use it. Melt it down and pour into another jar for yourself if you want. But I wouldn't recommend using a cracked jar
@Buttercurls
@Buttercurls Жыл бұрын
@@BlackTieBarn Yes I believe its a hairline crack in the jar. Should I scoop the wax out of the jar and melt it in a melting pot and then pour in new candle jar? Also could you recommend proper wick size for 8 ounce jelly jar. So far I've tried CD 8 wick and I experienced high flame) dancing around. Then I tried 6 1/2 inch wick . Great melt pool/burned slow . . Took 2 hours to achieve full melt pool (moderate hot throw used 8% Fragrance load) but still had some dancing and high flame. I use soy coconut 454 wax. The supplier says to wick up with that wax but it doesn't work well when I do that. I used size medium wooden wick, extremely high flame / fast melt pool under 30 minutes , that size wick was recommended by the supplier. Epic fail idk it's frustrating. Should I wick up from the 6 1/2 inch wick to the 7 inch wick or wick down to 6 inch? So sorry for this long comment
@Straingelove
@Straingelove Жыл бұрын
It’s frustrating, I tried to heat gun them and it worked but came back 😅, I still love the glow of a clear glass so small price to pay. The damn perfectionist in me needs to learn to let go
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Yep. Took me years to just accept it. O don't like it, but sometimes.... nothing you can do. Lol
@Straingelove
@Straingelove Жыл бұрын
@@BlackTieBarn exactly!!
@gailstringer2074
@gailstringer2074 3 ай бұрын
What about air bubbles
@lisawalker7923
@lisawalker7923 10 ай бұрын
Go information
@kman8271
@kman8271 Жыл бұрын
I bet your wife loves the smell of the house! Lucky girl. Hoping my husband loves it when I start…. TODAY! Wish me luck 😅
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
yes she does but she isn't a good judge. HORRIBLE sense of smell. Lol
@sylvaingouletmeditation1687
@sylvaingouletmeditation1687 Жыл бұрын
Hi Wade, i found a way to deal with the wetspots, i just take my heat gun and i heat the wetspot and it goes away and do not com back.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
yah, this is a common thing people try. Glad its working for you with your wax, for most unfortunately it doesn't work. It only helps temporarily. Ive had it help for a while in my location. But as soon as it get shipped to someone or moved to another spot, they tend to come back. But its a good temp fix or potential long term fix for some waxes. For me.... I dont have the time to heat gun every jar though, especially when customers could care less. Lol. But, yes i think many people try this. :)
@brendabailey9418
@brendabailey9418 Жыл бұрын
Just recently I had this happen.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
👍
@Draconamous
@Draconamous Жыл бұрын
Even when I make real ready to go candles they don't really bug me. I figure they just fill in and go away as they burn.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
For aure!
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
For aure!
@katherinenieves9658
@katherinenieves9658 Жыл бұрын
🙂
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
❤️
@nsiimentaphillipah5719
@nsiimentaphillipah5719 8 ай бұрын
I’m a beginner and this makes everything better. Knowing I’m not alone and other people have faced the same problem. These spots are killing me 🥲
@RoseKindred
@RoseKindred Жыл бұрын
Outside of the technical/maker standpoints, I think the best thing is just all of us informing people about this. It can be standard with waxes, but like "only soy is healthy," there is floating misinformation. As long as the whole candle is not filled with bubbles (like some mass-produced ones) I do not mind, and I have OCD, so that is saying a lot.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Even the bubbles ones are normal. It's just a different kind of wax. It's a classic wax that many customers still like. I don't mind them either. I've made them before. :)
@RoseKindred
@RoseKindred Жыл бұрын
@@BlackTieBarn Oh I get that it is the wax. I worded it badly. I meant they used to be solid waxes (or seemingly) and then changed. I noticed the bubbles filling containers everywhere. Going from one type to the other abruptly threw me off causing me to avoid it. It would be like you changing your whole line to a cloudy gel only, if that makes sense.
@millioneaessentials9320
@millioneaessentials9320 Жыл бұрын
Hello. Is there a way that I can email you?
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Yep, through my channel about page.
@AtomicElf1
@AtomicElf1 Жыл бұрын
Probobly
@abeirheib4871
@abeirheib4871 Жыл бұрын
I have a solution Wade just use Tins and not glass jars😂
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
boom. lol
@SJ-tx5go
@SJ-tx5go Жыл бұрын
Now you tell me 😂 after making 60 candles in jar so I could charge my customers less.
@kaykristine2584
@kaykristine2584 Жыл бұрын
You’re either new or lying 😂
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
🤣🤣
@aprilperez5946
@aprilperez5946 Жыл бұрын
I had some anxiety just before watching this video because a few of my jars had some wet spots, thank you for the information. I used to remelt my candle jar(s) due to the adhesion.. I will no longer have to do that!🙏🏿🙏🏿🥹
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
❤️👍
@dianafloros8202
@dianafloros8202 Жыл бұрын
Hi Wade I am trying to for m my Llc and I am so confused between LegalZoom vs Incfile please help.
@BlackTieBarn
@BlackTieBarn Жыл бұрын
Hey Diana. I've never used incfile. Only legal zoom so I'm not sure
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