Wow, such a well-done episode.

Great episode. I am wondering why the authorities...investigators, didnt do a set up of a young in love couple with cops surveillance...it doesnt make sense....bad police work.

"Police said the murders are connected with the same signature breast mutilation"..... after the case was solved...."update, police said the two case are NOT related and we're still looking for suspects".. the moral of the story is these police department are working for money, unethical and lies about everything. Looking for suspect means money in their pockets. The detective who worked at rape cases and had his trace of blood found was contamination as presented on video where in 84 they were careless about preserving pure samples. The detective never said "the girl I photographed died" on the phone, why would a SMART detective even say that on the phone in 2012 knowing phones are tampered? that was another lie by the for profit 666 police department. Here's the likely truth, the case was solved when the convicted rapist died in 2011, his dna is the evidence. More likely for both murders, again the police likely tampered with the time frame of the time he was in jail during the event of the 1st case. He was a CAREER RAPIST and they released him from jail so he can do it again. But the police department cannot make money off dead suspects so they targeted the detective who committed suicide, RIP. Unfortunately even if you reveal the names of these demonic San Diego police, there's millions who received the mark that will replace them.

Znga

He needs to forgive himself.

Actually in the eyes of the law the two girls were “minors”. Not children.

@@valleygirl2530the point still stands.

@@valleygirl2530 Exactly - they are not women but underage minors. Which means that they are not adults and cannot be described as women.

And what were they doing sleeping overnight at the beach w/guys in their sleeping bags, mom and dad??

They were young women, teenagers, and kids... either way I cannot believe they thought they were murdered by separate killers in the same exact location, the same way, with the same sick sand signature!

I feel the dad was too harsh on him though. I understand the grief & anger but they were just teenagers and he will feel guilty for the rest of his life for someone else’s evil actions.

Who wouldn’t???

Oh my goodness yes…his recounting of waking up cold, wet, alone, covered in blood? I feel fit this man. Teenagers do stuff like this every night all over the would, and later in life can look back and laugh about those exploits. I do that! I feel so sorry for this man and the victim’s family. 15 years old, she’d barely begun to live. I pray she didn’t suffer too long, that she passed out wasn’t fully present for the pain.

@@Summer09824 I agree he was to harsh , and i would hope by now he would have apologized........OF COURSE the kids went to the beach , thats what kids do

@@Summer09824Agreed. That part really hurt my heart.

his wife was awarded over SIX MILLION DOLLARS after he killed himself.. that's an absurd epilog to the story of a GRAPEST

@@cannablissdreamsWhat?! Why? I’ve seen this episode before and don’t recall anything about his wife. I’ll have to finish watching it but your comment has me stunned.

@@BS-dq1kz it's at the very end of the episode.. in notes written on the screen.. right before closing credits.. it was a jury award in a wrongful death suit

@eustsb - did you hear at the end that they don’t believe these two cases are related after all? Guy who drowned was in prison when Barbara was killed and Brown was in college 500 miles away. The second case could be a copycat.

@@Goldiegirl2009or maybe they met somewhere, possibly at a strip club and decided to hint together… Ted Bundy did the same and murdered some of his victims with a friend. But after watching the whole ep, it’s more likely it was cross contamination… that convict was the only killer. :(

Indeed! I pray God gives you lots of beautiful days, I’m David Greg originally from Spain Granada, I live in Austin Texas and you ?

The evidence point to the guy being innocent. But for some reason you're hooked on what his wife says...

@@DavidGreg066WTH lol

3:18 right I'm like... almost every "wife" says that and that is just disgraceful to those who he harmed

He did not do it. He was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by any means. Look up touch DNA and how easy it for touch DNA to end up on a victim.

My daughters and I always talk about this and say god forbid something happened to one of us let's all be honest please don't anybody start with the SHE LIT UP THE ROOM!!!!

I’m glad I’ve never lit up any rooms. I feel like that must make me less likely to be murdered. 😂

Yeah

@@mamarobyn 🤣👍

@@rhiannon0717 🤭

I thought the exact same thing! I have 3 kids and my older two are respectful and mind me really well. My youngest is smart. She’s so smart like my husband but she also isn’t as well behaved. She’s a lot to handle at times. I used to look at other parents with their ill behaved children and think how good my kids were and that I’d done a great job. Lol. Then, I had her. Ha! I love her of course but she’s definitely changed the entire dynamic of our household. She’s also made me choke on my pride a little. So, when I heard the mom say that, I thought the same as you and then I thought to myself how that’s exactly what my youngest daughter does for me. I know it’s different than what this mom was probably saying but nonetheless…

Gave me my son to humble me tooooooo 😂😂😂😂😂

All my children humbled me! 😄

Where was God when she was being murdered??

@@J.Biden69 That’s very unhealthy and disturbing

Unless whomever killed the 1st girl,immediately covered her mouth and grabbed her legs and arms or hit the boyfriend 1st and knocked him out.Did the 1st girl scream and if so nobody heard her There's just too many unanswered questions for me.

@@GeminiJonson Indeed this is too much work for just 1 person!!

The dad is in the wrong blaming him tho he doesn’t need that extra guilt on him

It wasn't Jim's fault, it was the horrible murder's fault. Place blame where it belongs.

How could he defend her against a monster?

It sounded like he was severally beaten. What can you do this is just an all around awful thing.

Ok call me crazy but what dad leaves town and says to a teenage boy…”take care of my daughter, etc..while im out of town???” He was a teenage boy 😳

His wife was victimized by Law Enforcement, the families were victimized by criminals. Law enforcement has a duty to act appropriately

​@@Tamara-id1pesimple and to the point. People will understand this if they don't react off emotions.

They should sue for wrongful death of their daughter.

Yeah, that's disgusting. He was a creep and most likely involved, but even if he wasn't, it isn't the police department's fault he chose the easy way out. I have so sympathy for a dude so creepy that female coworkers didn't want to be in the same room with him. The wife doesn't deserve to profit from his cowardice.

@@ExiledStardust What??? The police acknowledge that he couldn't have been the one in the end and you say he deserves it because of some offhand interactions with a colleague. Did you miss the part where they said he wasn't a good communicator and wasn't great with people? I mean you are what is wrong with the world today, that man was bullied to his death

She won $6M by marrying to a serial killer.

And it amazes me that she was awarded 6 million for him taking his own life smh

Normally I would agree with you, but the facts in this case lead me to believe that the MICROSCOPIC speck of DNA was cross-contamination and Mr. Brown was innocent. Don't forget that the poor victim had blood on her jeans that belonged to a serial rapist. For heaven's sake does that really make sense to you?

@@madelainemadelaine2934 Yes, there was a MICROSCOPIC SPECK of DNA from a guy who worked in the lab and BLOOD ON HER JEANS from a convicted serial rapist, and they went with the lab guy. Usually I think DNA is a slam-dunk, but this one makes no sense.

Yeah BTK comes to mind. Everyone, including his family thought he was an awesome person. But we all know how that ended.

Well his widow got 6 million in her wrongful death suit. I guess it pays to be oblivious.

his wife knew he was a piece of work she just wanted to stand by her man and being a pick me

Not sure how you can watch this episode and not come to the conclusion that the cops messed up. You should watch again and especially listen to key information.

@@bushmonster1702 Absolutely, and I am glad she got the judgement against them. Hopefully, they learned to be more thorough with subsequent cases. The compelling thing for me was that Bible verse he left marked to indicate how hopeless he felt that he could ever convince his wrongful accusers that he was innocent. I hope he felt comforted that God understood when certain humans did not.

​@@TheCowgirlNiamh16:05

Absolutely. It should be possible for anybody of any age. Unfortunately, we have to recognise the terrible fact that killers walk among us.

Mom always said “nothing good happens after midnight” monsters everywhere.

That’s why they must stay home and don’t go anywhere without their parents,,,

@@mbekka1 Agreed, entirely. Unless of course in the rare and awful cases that parent/s or carer/s are abusive.

@@jasonstaples4364 It is always after midnight except on the dot of midnight.

Yes there the best

Better than these annoying podcasts 😂

😂😂😂 u funny

​@@gravedigger6632grow up

Sounds about right. God knows tho. 🙏🏿

I agree!! They do need to look more into the first guy that committed suicide.

I'm with you all the way. There's someone out there who thinks the police are a joke.

His blood was on her, there was DNA proof. Don’t forget there are some times copycats.

As a molecular biologist who had designed clinical trial assays using DNA, I have seen sample cross contaminations all the time if people don't follow the strictest lab practice. The police cannot just dismiss the possibility of sample contaminations in the criminal lab. There is a well known story among molecular biologists that in Germany the police was puzzled the suscepts in several unrelated cases was the same woman until they figured out that lady who did not wear gloves when assembling the sample collection kits

Very true.

Yup especially the ones from the 70s and 80s those were wild time

Well the one had written a will already so I'm guessing she didnt feel immortal. But I do think it's hard for most to fathom just how quickly and easily life can be snuffed out.

Well I mean they weren’t out jumping off cliffs, they just wanted to sleep on the beach, bothering no one, they shouldn’t have been killed. That shouldn’t be a death sentence

This is just victim blaming. If kids can’t even enjoy their time at the beach without being murdered, the society collectively failed them, the same way our kids get murdered in school nowadays.

Be things happen to a lot of us.

It'll never be solved. It happened 46 years ago...

Very well said. At that age and even beyond, you don’t think about these things. I remember my college years and there was never any fear about our safety. I believe that most of us make it out of those years by luck and good fortune that nothing like this happened to us. There are so many stories about those that were not so lucky. Very sad.

I agree completely. Teens brains aren’t even fully formed and they think they are invincible.

Meh, it's a human response.

@@janicescott6569Yep. And they’re gonna make poor choices/decisions occasionally. This is normal Childhood Growth and Development and at best, we can offer our POV, our guidance (please keep it low keyed, parents) but ultimately it’s their decisions. It’s scary as a parent to learn to lighten up on our kids in adolescence because we know what *we did.* We also took a lot of risks. *As our kids get older we need to loosen the reins, not tighten them.* Our kids are not extensions of us, they’re their own unique “human beans.” Let them be who they are-and remember, you have an Identity outside being a “parent.”

If that was my daughter I'd be mad at everyone and everything.

He was almost an adult. Teens know right from wrong. He wasn't a toddler. Taking a girl to a secluded area for sex and being irresponsible means it's his fault!!!

The world needs more friends like you. Good on you for having such a good head on your shoulders.

I spent 20 years enjoying that beach and I never once heard about the murders and that one was still unsolved.

Seal beach is great

Some never watch the news. I do.

I was there yesterday - it’s such a beautiful place.

Same! I grew up there and spent every summer on that beach in the 80’s and never even heard these stories.

That’s what I’m asking , the forensics tech just may be innocent

Also, when there are two identical cases, and both of their suspects have alibis for the first one, and there's a viable explanation for the DNA of one of the suspects. Just wow.

@@johnscanlon2598he’s guilty, those lie detector tests are extremely accurate, those other comments he made and the suicide of himself. We are looking at a guilty guy

low level police are not brilliant at their jobs in general.

It’s a joke. They just wanted to “solve” the case. It’s kind of scary how detectives operate

That’s right! Not the kids, parents etc. who r at fault killers are the ones we all need to blame appropriately for this kind of tragedy! No one should have to deal with these horrible kinds of happenings but we do have to unfortunately

Your god-dog blessed them all right . As well as he blesses parents of 9 000 000 children under age of five dying each year worldwide . And all the others dying and suffering .

@@TNT-km2eg what’s wrong with children suffering and dying if you’re just star dust. That’s like a rock crying over another rock that got stepped on.

It really does and I’m glad she won that case they ruined the guys life!!!!

​@@tpw9099or he ruined the girls life. Being a creep and cross contaminated DNA isn't enough but he should have been pursued.

Hearing that the lab technicians would bring in their own seminal fluid to confirm the accuracy of the lab tests is wild!

Brown was hundreds of miles away in college when the girl was murdered. The Widow won a 6 million suit against the San Diego police.

I agree

If he went to trial I believe he would have gotten off bc there definitely was reasonable doubt.

Having 2 separate guys' DNA on her? Once I heard one was a tech, I immediately thought contamination. The suicide guy is most likely the culprit.

Yeah they we’re just kids he was attacked too and had his love killed he wasn’t responsible for thier daughters choice they need to hug him

@@katiel1979 I know. He’s carrying so much trauma to begin with. I feel terrible for him 💔

The father apologized to him all the way back in ‘94. It was just the initial anger/shock.

@@katiel1979were* their*

Well, it's understandable that the parent's hearts were broken in a zillion pieces.

Aaaah people tell me my husband looks similar to me as if we're Sister and Brother lol😆🙈

@@artisthusnatalal3099Let’s hope you don’t turn up dead, my friend! ;-)

@@tundrawomansays694 Haahhaaa...hhhaaa😂😂😂

Maybe he had type he liked or girl with similar look refused ,rejected him😢

It's been said also that a caretaker/owner of a dog begins to resemble the dog after a while ... what gives?!@@artisthusnatalal3099

Agreed!! Anyone with half a brain can link these 2 murders together. The way in which both Barbara & Claire were murdered were eerily similar.

It is! Only other thought I had was the 2nd was a copy-cat. I think there's a good chance the rapist guy did the 2nd one, but he was in prison when the 1st happened....

​@@ameliacoburn4787 I think the probability of the second case being a copy-cat is very low for one reason: most of people who lived in the area at the time didn't even know that something happened there, let alone HOW and at what exact location...

His head was swollen twice it's size.

He was probably a suspect for less than a day or something. It’s like a thought that comes and goes.

Bullcrap. You have to watch the story where the bf/husband (cant remember the relationship status) took his girl to the beach also and killed her, then shot himself 4 times to make it look like it wasn't him. He got caught because there were Google searches of where to shoot yourself and not die. And he drove 10 miles while bleeding to get help for his girl.

⁠@@SidewaysInTraffic - I know that case you mentioned. The guy did internet searches on how to minimize injury when shooting oneself. And he did just that. He was never in a coma for 4 days. He did NOT have metal plates put in his head. He did NOT come close to dying - all of which Jim experienced. HUGE difference.

@@sylversyrfer6894 HUGE DIFFERENCE INDEED… (I remember that other case too)

MEN ....as usual...whats new

They are not resting anywhere . They are not anymore . Dead

@@TNT-km2eg what a delightful ray of sunshine you are.😑

@@J.Biden69 Empty semantics of a dilettante . Collection of contradictions

Tragic

If they had not gone out, his daughter would have been safe but she too was responsible.

@@julieuk5855yeah but the boy wasn’t her dad, he was her bf and was a teen also. So yeah he is responsable same as barbara herself, meaning 2 young teens wanting to live life. None of them to blame, teens do not always listen to their parents, it is what it is. The only one to blame is the killer

He doesn't blame him anymore. He read a letter he wrote to the boyfriend in 1994 saying as much.

Do none of you watch the whole thing? He forgave the bf.

i was wondering where are the photos? if he recalled taking them.

She didn't say he showed her photos of the girl who was murdered. She said he showed her examples of the kind of photos he took. He obviously showed her the most innocent-looking ones, and ones of people who weren't under age. But it's likely that he didn't do it because the forensic evidence is contaminated and there was ALSO forensic evidence of a convicted rapist, which surely should make us consider the probability that THAT man committed the crime, not a guy who worked in the lab

@@sarahpiaggio2693 yes, I would have also suspected the rapist but apparently he was in jail during the time she was murdered?

@@itscherryamber Really? Well in that case none of their forensic evidence from that time is reliable at all

Even if Brown photographed her, that doesn’t indicate that he killed her. Apples and oranges. And there is no evidence that he DID photograph her. It’s sad that he succumbed to the pressure.

The way you're seeing interviews on TV shows / documentaries does not take place in real time. Prompts, responses and reactions are always shot in different takes and later cut together in post-production for the final edit. It's impractical doing it any other way.

And he reminds me of Stephen Spielberg! I looked him up to see was he a brother or something, but no lol.

If rapists got life in prison, millions of murders wouldn't happen...

@@PinkGrammarGirl so true-except for the murders after to avoid a witness to land them in prison for life. Already an issue-rapists are often murderers.

More than likely it was the man who drowned

Probably not, because then the lab would have to admit their shoddy practices.

Strange choice of words, huh?

@@Tenekai very strange…

@@kellyflores4931 unfortunately, this is the way the culture is headed. Policies are being put in place by Democrats to protect peds.

@@Tenekaigive me a single example of that happening. Which party is currently and historically advocating to keep child marriage legal? Hint, it’s not the democrats (I’m not a fan of either but you’re just straight up lying)

Right! Made me double check it wasn’t Tuesday.

​@@truthhurts3524 Or Friday. But then again, they missed last Friday. Weird.

So what do you think happened? Do you believe the law enforcement official was guilty of both murders? This case is a bit messy

You are right👍.

The suspect who drowned was in prison for the SA of someone else when Barbara (the girl from 1978) was killed. And I don't believe Kevin Brown was guilty. If he went to trial with that weak evidence- considering the potentially contaminated evidence, I believe he would've been cleared. Such a shame for both girls, their families, and the wrongly accused. At least his wife successfully sued the police dept.

Yeah that blew my mind. A convicted rapist’s blood was found and then offed himself THE DAY of the anniversary of it!! Serious misconduct, but the LA and San Diego police forces have always been a complete mess, some of the stuff they got away with in the 70’s and 80’s is a guide on what NOT to do in an investigation, the USA Police need a serious and complete reform, they hurt more people than they help, and terrorize the citizens that they “swear” to protect.

Yes that killer was nicknamed THE GRAPIST by his colleagues that's appalling

Brown was hundreds of miles away in college when the girl was murdered. The Widow won a 6 million suit against the San Diego police.

Report the guy for what because he was a pervert? He did t hurt anyone that they knew of?? What the hell is wrong with u people??? What kind of sick mob mentality to ruin another’s life is that? Wow??? Wth is wrong with society today?? Mind ur own business stop judging others he was a pervert that does not make him a killer or rapist??? What would u report seriously?? I cant believe 45 people agree with that kind of nonsense??? All of you Must be like 20-35 yrs old?? Because people never ran around reporting every little effing thing to the boss before you people started playing “ let’s police the people around us” mind ur business and take care of yourself my heavens

Idk...The guy got that nickname for doing back then what most americans are doing nowadays. Moral standards were way different those days. And he worked in that lab. He could have easily replace the evidence sample if he was indeed guilty. Looks like a clear case of cross contamination.

He got that nickname for going to strip clubs. Who doesnt do that nowadays? What is criminal about it? If it is criminal why strip clubs are legal?

🎯

Og

Sweet???? They’re brutal murders!! 🤨

This is from 2018

🤔

@@Pauly421It’s odd. Some of these people look like they are acting. It makes some of the parts look fake or hokey. Imo.

Agreed !!!

Based on what actual evidence? Can someone put him at the crime scene? Did he brag about it? Did they find the girl’s belongings at his home? Does he have a single accusation of violence in his past? Can they even show that he knew this violent rapist accomplice? Did they ever think there were two perpetrators before this “DNA discovery”? Anything? The court system clearly didn’t find the evidence, so I’m curious where it is

​@@Tamara-id1pe I lean your way. They absolutely did not have enough to get a conviction.

​@Tamara-id1pe Totally agree. He definitely didn't do it, and they're so stuck on him as the suspect that they're no longer looking for the actual killer and in turn adding to the families suffering. There are way too many people judging on emotions and not evidence. It's absolutely terrifying!

@@lindseyyoung9149 "Definitely"? How do you know that with absolute certainty? Clearly they lacked enough to charge, let alone convict. But "definitely" is a bridge too far for me.

Yeah it made me pretty sick to see their total lack of empathy for someone their daughter loved, and who lost the love of his life and nearly his own. Their daughter is gone but causing more harm to a victim is indefensible. They are her PARENTS, THEY are responsible for her safety, and instead of showing compassion they blame a 15 year old kid that they put the responsibility of watching their daughter onto who was knocked unconscious and imo acted so heroically to be on deaths door and his first concern is for his girl. They’re pretty disgusting, especially seeing how the father is STILL blaming jim in recent interviews.

I think the father was projecting his inability to protect his daughter onto the boyfriend. I have immense sympathy for them because this was an extremely traumatic event for them.

They did not do that, she was left with a family friend.

@@iseultbourke4692 If you listen, the father says explicitly that he talked to the boyfriend before he left and said "take care of my little girl." At a minimum he knew this guy was sleeping with his fifteen-year-old daughter and it didn't seem to bother him.

Both girls were not being supervised by their parents at the time of their murders, that much is true.

It's true, the beach culture in the 70's was very wild and free. Teenagers did all kinds of crazy, unsafe things and a lot of teens in CA were killed.

Brown was hundreds of miles away in college when the girl was murdered. The Widow won a 6 million suit against the San Diego police.

Occam's Razor says the suicide rapist is the culprit and the tech is contamination. If it's the tech, how do you explain the other guy??

He’s guilty and a coward for sure.

exactly @@PinkGrammarGirl

💯

I've seen this episode before and that part always bothered me. Doesn't the dad think that that Jum suffers with survivors guilt as it is? Or blaming himself. 3ven though he shouldn't.

Right like why is your teenager allowed to sleep outside overnight and not at home?!!!

@@tmcgruder2 her parents were unaware that they were leaving the house that night. They were not home and they were out of town, so don’t blame the parents. Those two teenagers promised they were going to stay home, and didn’t!

Guys, those feelings ... I don't think we can understand them. There's so much grief and pain involved. Leave them to their feelings, it's not for us to judge.

@@persgodivaI actually totally agree with you….

That’s not always possible but yes, he should have gotten a lawyer

No one knew how to handle samples at the time. DNA wasn't a thing.

Uncomfortable does not mean a murderer.

And let’s hope you never have to, my friend. Sometimes I don’t think there’s anything scarier than being parents of teens. They need space and we need to loosen up the reins, not hold them tighter despite knowing they’re gonna make decisions that aren’t the best. I don’t know about you but throughout my life (I’mma old widow broad) I’ve learned more from my poor decisions than I ever learned from my “better” decisions.

Please tell them to not be reckless and not fall under peer pressure. People say “oh kids being kids, teenager being teenagers” which is ridiculous in this day and time where criminals are everywhere.

These were once in a million crimes, and nothing has happened since the 1980s. There's no reason to avoid that beach

@@pazza4555she meant alone. Putting herself in danger at night

Way to make it about you... get over yourself.

Same!

I thought the same thing about the two murders. I do now there are copy cat crimes one was the right breast and other was the left breast.

​@@x35mmmanthe second girl had the blood of a convicted rapist all over her. But the police are going to go after the scientist who worked without gloves in the lab? A c a b.

Because they use to always mention a copycat for many crimes back then. The crimes look like they are related and could honestly be 2 separate cases.

That's what I'm was thinking. They never barely discussed about the Barbara's case but mostly focused on Claire. If they would have try to get some DNA of Barbara, it could have lead to something. I find something is off with that situation.

My thought too

She probably got a premonition.. a dream that she's going to die.

I've never seen someone cry so hard, with so few tears.

Exactly. One would think the tester themself would have been scrutinized far more if something like this was going to be investigated properly. Just the fact he has the only believable justification for his DNA being where it shouldn't, in conjunction with the quantity being so small relative to the other sample, seems very likely contamination. If you were in his unique position, and truely were the rapist, how would that sample have implicated him in any way shape or form. You'd basically have to believe he accidentally implicated himself while framing this other suspect, but wasn't in a position to just do the test himself or manipulate the results after. Or they did it together? Possible sure, but plausible? They very well could have contributed to ruining someone unjustly for damage control purposes. It's sure spun in their favor, even having to pay the widow the ramifications of any alternative affecting other cases could, and would, and to be fair probably should be scrutinized. Almost sacrificial.

It's a constitutional Republic.

@@ricksomething Who the hell cares what it's called!! We are a COMMUNIST country now

Everybody including psychopaths are free to go wherever they want. Nobody is entitled to not have fear. In fact, it's good to have a certain amount of it so you can minimise the risk of encountering the bad people.

@@GhastlyCretin85 obviously you missed my point. Too bad

No, obviously you missed HIS point. Too bad.@@begonebegone7825

Yup, pretty crazy

Brown didn’t do it. If you watch the show, it is clearly explained how easy it was to have his DNA end up on the victim in simple cross contamination. She is not clueless at all, and far from it.

Not on the victim, in the victim.