Arch actually did give a reason for why you can’t use graceful flame, that also explains why the portable lantern doesn’t exist yet. He said that it’s because the light from the flame and/or the lantern will call the 8 snowman’s, which would instantly eat your light hook and wipe you.

Cant wait for someone to ignore "I dont mean that layer 2 is bad", shit in comments, end up in DDOS and continue complaining 😔🙏

You basically hit ever complaint I had about layer 2 on the head. Too bad the devs are too busy working on league of legends. Hopefully layer 3 will be more of what people want when it comes out in 3 years.

eclipse officially has a deepwoken addiction

There's no way bro went from yba, through reviewing roblox games, to getting addicted to deepwoken while the game is dry asf. It's really fun watching how your gameplay improved from your deepwoken review, to actually doing l2. edit: Alright y'all are right, eclipse is probably at a point where the game still seems exciting to him, unlike many people. My main problem with the game is that the balancing team seems to be non-existent, and flamecharm is heavily prioritized by the devs for some reason

Consider doing oaths as stories. Some oaths obtainment have crazy lore and adventure. Please try getting them

There's a reason for the Light Hook. Layer 2 was Deepwoken's first MAJOR content addition, a whole new dungeon with new monsters and 2 incredible boss fights, the update was hyped and awaited for a LOT. So to make it so that everyone could play this long awaited layer 2 they added the Light Hook in the purpose of letting everyone including less skilled players play the dungeon without risking anything, but gave it a timer and removed it during the Ethiron fight to make things still somewhat risky if you go too deep into it.

Layer 2 not only is it just something i speedrun without thinking about it, it's also losing its value more and more. It used to be the best way to get loot, but now that the Diluvian mechanism exists, there really isn't a point in doing floor 2 apart from getting dawnwalker/a couple dye packets. As for floor 1, chaser is now pretty much useless, and there really isn't a need to get the deepshore fossil now that Maestro can just drop any enchant stone you could possibly want, as well as more legendary weapons than even Ethiron. Also eclipse I wanted to ask you: have you ever worked on non jojo games before ? you make really good suggestions and remarks all the time and i was wondering if it comes from experience

11:32 Lorewise, there is a diver in floor 1 that asks you to save her by completing the entirety of layer 2. However, she is being controlled and that trap there is meant to kill you for attempting to save her.

The main problem with layer 2 is how badly Deepwoken's permadeath mechanic interacts with it This might be a controversial take but, personally, I feel like layer 2 would be a hundred times over better if light hook was kept permanently throughout the exploration parts of floor 1 and 2, but removed upon reaching bosses, because: 1. The main risk of wiping (atleast as a new player) comes from bosses anyways, the fact that the travelling sections of floor 2 can also get you wiped leads you to just use the quickest and safest route to the boss 2. Layer 2 actively discourages exploring, floor 2 is the biggest offender of this even though floor 2 has the most exploration to offer The literal start of floor 2 has a trap npc that when talked with spawns 3 lancers, the place is filled with trap rooms with enemies that are way too hardcore for people who've gone there for the first time, and on top of that there's also a timer that basically forces you to hurry up instead of explore the place Imagine you're playing layer 2 with a friend of yours who's new to Deepwoken, what would you prefer: Option A. Have only the risk of wiping at bosses (which is the main part that causes wiping anyway) but be able to mess around and explore all the trap rooms/npcs/easter eggs throughout layer 2 without a worry and ACTUALLY fight enemies to learn their attack pattern and secure loot next time youre actually ready to tackle on the boss(keep in mind this hypothetical idea would work just like floor 1, loot isnt kept until you beat the boss) Option B. Know that layer 2 will basically insta wipe you if you dont take the shortest route, so just go through the same boring motion telling your friend to just follow your lead without questioning else his character will get wiped (which is currently how layer 2 is played) ALSO PLEASE PLAY RANDOMLY GENERATED DROIDS 🦆

Eclipse has now fell into the trap of deepwoken

eclipse is evolving he says glazing now

5:38 You can actually! There's a piece of equipment in game called the Winter Corps Parka, pretty common drop from Layer 2 chests. It gives you a talent that works similarly to Survivalist, where the parasites take longer to have an effect on you. I get your point though, it doesn't completely/heavily negate the parasites, but it is something you can obtain directly.

there are reasons to lighthook, eclipse (do not include me in DDOS) 1. if it would be risky then nobody would even do l2 2. back in the day, when verse 2 came out l2 came out too, and that was the most anticipated update in deepwoken, that overhauled everything. if it were to be this difficult, while nobody even KNEW how to beat it, who would even bother?? dw would js lose its players 3. some people dont play the game for pure fun, some prefer grinding for loot. LH ensures safety while that is being done. 4. sometimes, going to L2 isnt necessarily to beat chaser, its for getting some minor talents, and if you had to waste that much time everytime you even went down to L2, then it'll get annoying for the players. i tried

No way the just added portable lamps in layer 2 right after this video 💀

Hard agree on not being usable in combat, however I have to disagree with manually using it in terms of being flung off the map. There are many instances where bugs, ping, etc can lead to going off the map. Would suck to wipe to that, wouldn't feel "oh thats my fault i wiped" it would be "wow thats like 4 hours of my life grinding this build wasted." Just make it so if you die in combat in L2 the Light Hook wont save you, but it saves you from parasites and falling off the map. This is also better for players who are first going into Layer 2, who wouldn't know about parasites and falling off the map is inconsistent sometimes where there is and isnt floor. Meanwhile any player going into Layer 2 would understand dying to a Bonekeeper and any other mob, is, well, dying.

The ignition union did make a portable lamp of sorts but only in lore, as the railblade is said to "Generate a warding heat that protects the wearer against the insidious chill of the Eternal Gale.", i still do hope one day we get stuff that acts as counters to the parasitic snow though

last friday they added a new weapon, its obtainment coming from an npc in layer 2. talking to this npc will wipe you if you do not meet the requirements. the requirements are not mentioned or hinted at

Eclipse should become a tester tbh, like i really love the blacksmith idea and the portable lantern, like parasites arent even a problem at this point you will use the respite lantern anyways, keep it up eclipse gl with deep

I'd like to mention that with the layer 2 instakills, they actually did add a new one in which you must go to a specific spot at a cave near the town in floor 1 (which you can easily fall off into the deathpit below at) and go through doors that dont open unless you went down with no light hook, and you are then burnt to death and wiped if you do not meet multiple requirements when talking to an NPC to obtain a new weapon

never played deepwoken but plan to and these videos are making me want it more

This guy got vow of mastery on the whole dev team he made them add layer 2 items 4 days after the video 😭😭😭😭

8:22 I think this puzzle is intended for multiple people. Outside the library, there’s a mural that will light up when you use the obelisks. One person recons to the person in the maze how many times to press the obelisk, and you get through. Needless to say, this has its flaws. Especially us solo gamers without friends who live on playing video games for a living/don’t have as much time as us. We don’t have someone to tell us the code while we are in the library, thus are left with either taking too long and getting teleported back with a progress wipe, or make friends with the wiki.

I'm glazing this so hard. This is actually so peak. Eclipse cooked hard throughout the whole video Layer 2 has actually become such a mindless speedrun that the playerbase has gotten used to, mostly subconsciously, this video was such a good reminder of the problems everyone feels. Agamatsu also reacted to your vid on stream, I'd just like to bring up an idea he came up. Essentially the suggestion is to give lighthook a couple seconds to charge before it pulls you up. This way if a player's is low percent hp in a fight, they'd still be stressing as the lighthook is winding up. Maybe this would only apply in combat ctag, so players unfairly knocked by the gale into the void can still safely exit.

THEY ADDED PORTABLE LANTERN YOOOO

another deep vidoe! thanks eclipse.

your firfire idea is BRILLIANT

I think it'd be cool if you could use the light hook and wouldn't run out until layer 2, but at the cost of nerfing your drops. This would be cool for newer players who might want to just have a fun replayable option in an otherwise punishing game, that they could attempt layer 1 at lower levels without as much penalty.

chaser drops a crown exclusive to him but its so rare that most people never see it

layer 2 is flashy but is lacking a lot of things. Like a golden bowl without anything inside of it.

No way , eclipse is my god, his ideas already in the game, with the first weekly from the video upload, pls make more videos on deepwoken with suggestions to improve my davourite game. With best wishes, avarage deepwoken player

Completely agree with the ignition's drill, some of my friends that play the game don't have the confidence to even try chaser without a full squad. Leading to them not getting ANYTHING until they have backup, which can take WEEKS.

I really like the idea of firfire being a rest stop town. In many roguelike dungeon crawlers, this kind of feature exists at some point whether it be a shop or special event to reforge items, etc. Layer 2 is a dungeon-designed map. Making firfire have some cool unique npcs or unique features from the overworld would be great.

I think the main issue this game is not *perfect* or has some really huge cons is because devs took too much on them. They have to make lore, have to make lore events/bosses, have to expand the game following the same lore, have to think of PVP and not only PVE and some of the people right now would like a storymode for sure which might be even harder if not impossible to make. Plus the weekly updates are forcing them to make the least so they can do something bigger later.

1:58 the lighthook released with layer 2 because that was a new environment with a couple of new mechanics. Before layer two, builds were completely based on luck, luck was even a stat. Imagine how frustrrating it would be if you wiped your "one in a million" build because the game bugged or didnt register you changing directions to avoid the wind and got flung anyways. This was a really good strategy to avoid an even bigger influx of restore tickets. Furthermore, light hooks having the timer means that the clueless playerbase couldn't bruteforce their way through layer two, making the content last longer. Also, an average layer 2 floor 1 (chaser fight) can be completed with like 5-10 min without tryharding as long as you know where to go, so the loop for those who didnt want to risk their builds would be to run floor 1 until you get a route fast enough that you can start exploring floor 2 while still having the lighthook. In the end, in order to make the game less risky, you need to take proper time inbetween runs (if you fail or bail out) I really like this, it solves oretty much every potential problem they could've had with layer two at launch

16:40 I completely agree with this. I think a good change for this would be that using the deepdrill allows you to keep at the VERY LEAST 5 items (with the ignition union taking the rest since they are a generally "greedy" group). This would mean there would be an option for newer players to get valuable loot without having to confront a boss that will most likely wipe them, but there is still an incentive to kill chaser to obtain more. This would further mean that floor 1 doesn't become this "free loot zone" for experienced players who would be able to get to most chest spots without ever losing their light hook.

You know, if deepwoken had a single player option or even private servers I feel like I would have enjoyed the game more. I've always enjoyed single player and Co op games over pvp and deepwoken has things that really interest me, but I really don't like the pvp aspects of the game, all my interactions with other players basically boiled down to either they want to kill me or they don't want to interact whatsoever. I had about 2 interactions I would call good/fun with other players but they were pretty nice. I really wish they added a way to play single player, preferably separate from the mmo part so people can't use this as a way to Max out a character without needing to meet another player. I hope some other people think a single player deepwoken would be fun cause I genuinely would probably play more of the game, if I didn't feel the constant stress and fear of my progress being wiped by someone who played the game more and leveled more who just decided to choose me to pick on.

I liked the idea of the Life Hook, as it prevented newcomers to just wipe out of curiosity.. However, I think it would have been better executed if it was a tool to "Explore" and do a research of the dungeon, and then, to be able to actually complete it, you would have to go in without it. Imagine like, if you go with the life hook, you can do your normal run but with no rewards, no chests. But you can figure How to complete the dungeon in a safe way. And then, after you have the mindset to do it, you will have to go in without the life hook; Chaser spawns and so does the chests and rewards idk, lemme know your thoughts lol

Layer 2 isn't bad, but they should add more content to it. Nowadays, Layer 2 is primarily a place for loot farming and doesn't offer much else to do. Here are my opinions on how to improve it: Quests: They should add more quests, such as speaking with an NPC and completing missions to receive a chest with a higher chance of rare drops. Additionally, some quests could involve tasks outside of Layer 2, like sending "X" item to "X" NPC in Layer 1, and as a reward, you get a talent card. Floor 1: In my opinion, Floor 1 should be a more open-world area with more quests, monsters, civilizations, etc. The idea of portable lamps is excellent. My suggestion is to have an open-world map to explore, with portable lamps that have a limited number of uses and need to be recharged at the Ignition Union base to use them again. As you mentioned, there should be a blacksmith in Firfire where you can craft certain armors. In my opinion, you should only be able to craft master armors at this blacksmith, since it's already easy to make them; you only need to be level 15 and have a storage slot with the necessary items or have the items in the bank. Floor 2: For Floor 2, they should remove the trap NPCs and provide more assistance to players entering this area, such as a quest like "Activate all the Lamps 0/5" when you enter Layer 2. In the library, your idea of making the code to pass through it random is a great idea that would make the game more enjoyable and immersive for non-speedrunners. In the city on Floor 2, they need to redesign it entirely, in my opinion. Currently, you can bypass the entire city and activate the lamps without fighting a single mob, which removes the challenge from Layer 2. This makes the only challenging parts the Scion Of Ethiron fight and the escape sequence. Sorry for some mistakes in my writing, im from Brazil and im learning English (Used Translator after making my text)

fun fact on firfire , theres a hidden cliff and theres a kyrsgarde sitting beside a cliff , he will ask you to sit next to him and if you use the resting emote next to him he says speical stuff

3:00 if you have roblox premium the dev makes money from playtime and I think that is scummy, but it is still a valid argument

I believe the lighthook is designed to explore and learn the mechanics of l2. As you said once in your previous videos, Deepwoken is a trial and error game. Its what allowed you and many other players to learn the patterns of the Bonekeeper fight. Its what allowed players to learn how the parasites and the wind works.

They did something cool to Firfire, adding some legendary weapon, then again it is almost impossible to find without the wiki and causes you to instantly die if you manage to get to it without flamecharm and a specific outfit.

6:22 layer 2 eternal gale is also stuck in the cycle from new krsya and there's a piece of clothing to do that also its not that risky to do layer 2 without a hook (as long as you can beat chaser or only came for the exp) you can skip firfire carvens entrace after getting the hook

Honestly I just love the direction your content is going, a few years ago when I first started watching you it was only for the specific games you played at the time, I felt like the commentary you had on them was refreshing and taking a more critical approach was so nice to see. But even after all those years and finally coming back I feel like I can just watch your stuff for you, you’re very funny and that more critical analytical side aids in that as well. It’s funny laughing at how horrible some things are and how you actually try and help them become better, I hope you can continue to do what you do.

So glad to see you got into deepwoken on the brink of another huge update nearing, I hope with your input you make deepwoken more of a balance and greater experince.

Even if I haven't watched the video, Eclipse is really reaching a peak right now!

Layer 2 has a couple of unique equipment drops that cannot be obtained anywhere else (or are just VERY difficult to find anywhere else) 1. Chaser's Bloodforged Crown. A red crown with a blood-reducing talent that is SO rare barely anyone has held one. 2. Delver's Duster. A leather jacket from an Ignition Union Deepdelver. It's a mythical equipment you usually get in Ethiron or Chaser But i agree, Layer 2 needs some more love.

Fun fact: If you use ironsing you have a mantra called iron skin which can regenerate your armour in layer 2

When it comes to how the lighthook time recharge is calculated, i found it to be 2 minutes waiting before starting to recharge at a 1:1 rate. Although important to note is im pulling this from personal experience and I havent taken the time to extensively confirm this theory yet

i don't think it's an issue that the game is more difficult without a guide. i mean, that's true for most games, anyways. the problem is that the game conditions you that you SHOULD use a guide repeatedly, with tons of unfair stuff and tedium that you can only avoid by using the internet. deepwoken does not build enough trust with the player for them to willingly play the way the developers intend for them to, because it has shown that it will only abuse that trust. that's the real problem.

Yeah the fire thing is odd. Just as you I would like to see a developer’s reasoning for graceful flame not working in Layer 2. Not quite the same thing but we have functional lanterns. We have the Gale Wax puzzle which curiously enough, is lit with azure flames. We also have the name Firfire for the town on floor 1. Recently the name might sort of make sense since its where you can find a disciple of Pleetsky and there is a fiery heat emanating from there but that is about it. To sum it up, really odd that graceful flame doesn’t work here when as you mentioned, it should work a lot better in a snowy landscape with parasitic snow that is susceptible to heat as opposed to an ocean

what i like but don't like at the same time about layer 2 is how it's just so linear it's a > b > c > boss | a > b > c > d > boss there little to no exploration to be done theres nothing to find other than a random monster or useless lore npc they really should just do a massive layer 2 expansion for the new conquest update making lighthook as a way to just leave whenever instead of a safety net like you said earlier i want to explore layer 2 but i know damn well that theres really nothing out there outside of the boss or floor 2 i want to explore it but im not trying to get infinite comboed by the snipers and wipe over that the only good monster they added to layer 2 is the bonekeeper everything else is just stat check

on the closing thoughts question, I'm one of those people that's realized how beautiful Eternal Gale looks and how infuriating it is to have Parasites act as a artificial and unnecessary timer that doesnt let me freely explore the layer even after completing it tenths of times over and over. I just hate the unneeded timers especially when they give us maps as extensive as these with no chance of fully appreciating the whole scope of the map-maker's vision. Also your Firfire idea is so good man

as problematic as layer 2 is, rest assured eclipse that blox fruit stands proudly with 0 issues whatsoever ❤❤

As someone whose played deepwoken since launch seeing layer 2 for the first time was cool, scary and fresh. Keyword being “first” as once you know where things are and what do to it just turns into a checklist. I do think the fault of it being a dungeon rather than an open world makes it this way and I pray for the day layer 2 gets some kind of rework to make it more exciting than a glorified speedrun every time .

I’m surprised that as someone who really enjoys the world design you didn’t bring up the monsters. I’ve always been bothered by the lack of variety and quantity but the quality is still there I think. Take Scyphozia for instance, it feels a lot more lively in comparison and even got two new mobs but more practically one since the Brute and Broodlord are reskins of each other with different stats. Layer 1 has about 14 different enemies. A lot of these are also found in the surface(Crustaceous Rex and the two jellyfish) but this makes sense even if you think its lazy. These even have cool lore implications, like how are a bird and a spider in a deep sea? Layer 2 technically has 8 fightable monsters I think including Scion of Ethiron but Kyrsgarde variants make a majority of these and are more like another race like how elves are in fantasy stories outside of a gameplay perspective. Now we are left with the Diver Husk, Carbuncle, Bounder, and Bonekeeper. The Diver Husks and presumably Carbuncles too(emphasizing on this because idk why they exist outside Layer 2) can be grouped up into Gale Parasites. We are fighting the parasites with varying hosts eventually. So we get 3 unique types of mobs here, Bounder, Bonekeeper, and parasites. It feels oddly empty in Layer 2 which is supposed to be a whole new realm essentially. It is a dungeon that plays way more linearly than Layer 1 but in terms of size are probably relative and Layer 1 probably gets outsized if you include Layer 2 Floor 2. They’re not even talked about by npcs for some reason like Megalodaunts are and I think that is a missed opportunity. They’re almost as obscure as Primadon. Supposedly there was meant to be a crab monster thing from an Agamatsu video and that would’ve been cool to have. To sum it up, Layer 2 does not have a very interesting monster pool. Also, a bestiary would be a cool way to give monsters some spotlight. Could be implemented as a book series starting with archivist megalodaunt or whatever it was

good points, though I do want to suggest the idea of (since there are peaceful beings in new kyrsa), maybe an underground society like the divers (hell could be ignition union) who have found a way to negate the time dilation, and have set up shop in the railways possibly. kinda like your firfire rework idea, but the place would serve to give a place to stay, craft armor and maybe do something with medallions, such as purchasing certain kyrsgarde armor blue prints n stuff. I think this is a good idea, though obviously flawed, it’d be a neat way to add more lore to floor 2 along with making it a bit more involved ( maybe the time dilation timer could be a non factor while inside or something). tldr: small refugee town inside of new kyrsa with sane npcs. great video as always, keep these up, they’re really entertaining to watch.

I believe firfire is a good example of missed opertunities but if you've looked at the secrets in floor 2 of layer 2 I believe its significantly more of a missed opertunity. There are multiple secret large locations accessable through the teleport hexagon things, multiple interesting npcs, and more accessable far outside the normal routes of floor 2. However, because these locations serve 0 purpose other than looking cool and maybe lore, most people dont even know they exist.

I just started deepwoken 3 days ago and I already wiped my max build, but I just can’t stop playing

love the video eclipse, this laid back content were u criticise games from a game design stand point has really made me change the perspective from which i programme games and add new features

About lighthook, no one wants to wipe because they got slightly unlucky and got knocked off the edge and one shot by a killbrick. Floor 1 design has a random chance of that happening sometimes almost unavoidably depending on some factors so its good to have that there just incase.

Just found out you can craft the lantern in layer 2. Looks like the devs found your video! I haven't seen anyone else talking about it, but it is very very cool that it's in the game you.

As a speed runner for layer 2 I think that having more interactions would be great, there’s just no point in going out of your way to kill mobs for mediocre chests and doing a galewax to get a horrible enchant stone, I think they should make a reason for people to kill mobs or do something in layer 2 except for just doing bonekeeper and immediately getting to chaser. I think floor 2 was designed perfectly tho to speed run you have to have advanced strategies and there’s a reason to kill things and to get medallions.

eclipse: why do people not want to fight the mobs and only run past them in floor 2 the mobs: 9:45 8:08

Honestly initially I thought the lighthook changes you made were odd, but considering all the other changes you made, i'm completely for basically everything in this video. This is an amazing take.

About the light hook. Perhaps i didn't properly understand what you were saying but its timer only goes to 10 minites if you use it as an item or die while holding it. Beating floor 1 and escaping it via the light hook spawned by klaris gives you a full 20 minute light hook on your next run no matter what. Anyway, overall thoughts on layer 2? Sort of wasted potential in some areas but what we got in the end is still great. Personally i dont just speedrun layer 2, I start exp farming there too whenever i hit level 15. Floor 1/2 and the fight against scion of ethiron seem like a joke to me and is just free exp to me nowadays. Funny how killing scion of ethiron used to give you only like 8 investment points ot something lmao.

20:22 at the end of the day, the goal for entering layer 2 is to get loot/xp and to get out. so if in the case that they do make layer 2 more exploration based and methodical, people would still just blaze through the entire thing to get the loot as fast as possible instead of slowing down. that's just what i think though

ECLIPSE'S SUGGESTIONS WERE HEARD, THEY ADDED BACKPACK LANTERNS AND DEEPTREADER BOOTS THAT CAN BE CRAFTED WITH LAYER 2 LOOT IN THIS WEEKLY UPDATE

The ignition deepdrill thing would give more incentive to simply loot and leave without killing the bosses for the loot. So if that's to be implemented, I would recommend some sort of downside, like you lose the ability to use the drill again for the next 20 minutes or so cuz the drill has to go back down or smth

eclipse, there is a lore reason for why specific kyrsgarde aren't hostile, it's because the ones in the city are being controlled by ethiron, influencing their actions, that's why the ones in firfire village are friendly and so is the one outside the city, because they haven't gotten close to the city to be controlled.

About the light hook part, i think that the light hook should stay as it is, since technically layer 2 isnt meant to be hard but infact anothet layer of the depths with different creatures, the lighthook is made so that the average person who is just starting to learn layer 2 can try without the risk of dying and having to repeat a whole power 20 slot again in order to finally get the point to which is pretty time consuming and tedious, no average player is going to want to remake a slot for the purpose of learning layer 2 bosses, floor 2 of layer 2 removes ur lighthook aswell soooo

I do really enjoy the “speedrunning,” as you say, of layer 2, but your suggestions would generally improve the experience as a whole. I’m most fond of your take on firfire, as I believe it is a land of missed opportunity for what it’s worth. Having an alien settlement said to be “foreign yet familiar,” a tagline which instantly attracted my interest towards firfire immediately disappointed me when I found out firfire’s purpose in layer 2, and how much more it could have been expanded on.

The take that the light hook should only work out of combat I feel is very stupid. I know that it is practically just a way to guarantee not wiping but that I think is a good thing as it does make sense lore wise, and helps new players learn the first floor and a the second floor without wiping if fast enough. It is also good for people who do know layer 2 as it guarantees them not wiping if they get killed in the bounder nest due to the constant ragdolls if they get hit, and not falling of by the bone keeper on the stone path afterwards.

Eclipse, when u say L2 is like a speedrunning place, i remember that in the last update made Wind Passage cant clip through walls. Afterwards, they made it clippable by saying "Making Wind Passage clippable through walls for speedrunning".

btw the light hook recharges to full everytime u beat chaser so u can keep on farming layer 2 floor 1. you dont have to wait x amount of mins for it to recharge to full after beating floor 1 and the same applies to floor 2 after u beat ethiron and get the lighthook claris sent, it will fully recharge back to 20 mins

Good news about the firfire section, they did indeed add something to firefire which is a miniboss that drops the new legendary weapon they added like 3 days ago. What an amazing start, just ignore the fact that to fight this boss you must have a bell, have no light hook and when speaking to the npc you must have specific stat requirements or else he just insta kills you.

The devs actually listened and added most of the things you talked about in this update. Cheers to good weekly updates

Reading the diver's books tells you that the kyrsgaurds in firfire cliffs act nice to lure in pray and eventually kill them like they did to the divers. It's not an excuse for a missed idea or anything but its a reason nonetheless as to why you don't get an antiquarian or a blacksmith.

if they ever do make layer 3, i would really like it if people gate kept ways of doing stuff so people could find out for themselves, or any other game that chooses to be like deepwoken if there ever is any

my biggest issue with layer 2 is that its too linear, you gotta turn on the same generator, then through firfire and the caverns the same bounder nest every time, and its very clearly laid out as one path. the same applies to floor 2. The lanterns are placed in such a way that there is one route thats optimal and doesnt require any backtracking, so you just run the same route every time

10minutes of light hook is still a lot. if you cannot get to chaser in like 6 minutes atleast idk what to say (if you skip firfire caverns)

Oh a correction there If you die and return to castle light with a light hook, you don't have to wait 10 minutes in-game You can just exist the game, go do something in the meantime like a short jog then come back and your 20-minute light hook should be recharged

I feel like people under lvl 20 should keep the light hook as a get out of death free card. But as soon as you hit lvl 20 you have to use it while alive. That way new players can actually explore layer 2 extensively instead of running away from everything but people who are actually capable of killing the monsters down there have to experience the risk.

I can see why people including myself would speedrun layer 2 and that is the deepshore fossil which is the main reason almost every of my builds goes to layer 2. And ofc people who want to get "god gear", knowledge and/or dawnwalker, those either solo either get boosted because the timer really is annoying in floor 2.

Ive tried to learn layer 2, but every time i died to the bonekeeper, and it was annoying as hell to try and learn his patterns and such by heart like every other monster. I would agree with you about the lighthook if it werent so easy to die to npcs before you could use it, as either you would leave at like half health instead of building muscle memory against the bonekeeper or die and spend a day, or a few hours if you got progression down that easy, rebuilding a character instead of building muscle memory against the bonekeeper. Maybe this wouldnt be an issue if, say, Klaris put a currently-functioning lighthook on you and made you kill a bonekeeper in castle light to prove yourself worthy of entering layer 2.

Personally as a new player, I really appreciate the light hook, not as a get out of jail free card, but as something that lets a new person explore the new area without immediatly getting crushed or trapped. Like imagine how’d you feel if you were a new player and fell off of the edge of the depths and just woke up in layer two with no idea how to escape.

I agree with pretty much all of these takes although the one argument for the Light Hook take is a little contradictory, reason why they added the light hook is to prevent builds from being wiped quickly, due to the fact that they knew Layer 2 was a new area. Adding the factor of the lack in knowledge about the area when it first dropped. Layer 2 requires you to have a barely maxed account to explore which is not fun after spending 3-5 hours building a slot only (Unlike Floor 1 which you almost always gets exposed to) for you to wipe it in less than 10 minutes cause of parasites. To make things clear, this argument is only relevant to new players exploring Layer 2 without a guide or a guide depends on how you see it. I fully agree with how the Light Hook works as a safety net, it feels such a breeze going through Layer 2 thinking I wouldn't get wiped every-time I do Layer 2 which completely removes the cautious factor when doing a run as an experienced player. Maybe Klaris would feel the responsibility for your survival but maybe after finishing your first run, she would completely trust you to make things easier for her cause she knows that you can handle yourself. TLDR: Maybe I suggest making the Light Hook more of a recall or rescue rope, putting a timer until you get extracted and be completely vulnerable when using it than an invincibility shield.

16:30, this mechanic wasn't really meant for keeping the loot if your light hook ran out. Its purpose was just another way to escape floor 1 if the player could not beat chaser (like you said) but entered layer 2 floor 1 through falling into the void in layer 1 of the depths while meeting these conditions: Power 3 and above, and 50% or more health. Entering layer 2 floor 1 through this method is also called "Hookless" because when you enter layer 2 floor 1 with this method, you dont have a light hook.

light hook is basicly a wandering tool to let you know wut is in floor 2 like if you are like some one who entered floor 2 first time it aint gonna be easy for ya so its like gives you chance to explore and wut is in floor 2 and give you chance to understand the moves of the boss and stuff

Every time I see somebody bring up issues with deepwoken I can't help but think: "Oh hey that's ALSO only a problem because they slapped permadeath onto an open world RPG." Don't get me wrong, simply removing permadeath wouldn't solve everything, but it sure would solve alot! Light hook being annoying for no reason: Permadeath. (it no longer has a reason to exist without it) Being forced to speedrun and ignore all the cool worldbuilding because you're on a time limit before you die: Permadeath. (hey you can actually enjoy the game now) Feeling like you're completely forced to use a guide or you will literally never progress: Permadeath. (and bad game design) (trial and error doesn't take several hours per try anymore, a guide being optimal would still suck but atleast trying to learn on your own isn't putting you in the "incredibly brave minority") NPCs deciding they want to be funny and kill you without warning: Permadeath. (would just be funny if you didn't lose your entire character and in some cases could be a way to grind) Players never even reaching the cool content even months or more after it releases: Permadeath. (This just... wouldn't happen without permadeath unless the player in question is completely godawful at the game and refuses to learn progression and combat.) Deepwoken has so much more going for it than just permadeath. So much so that it absolutely baffles me when people claim that it would somehow instantly lose all of its replayability and die on the spot if it was removed. I wish I could enjoy deepwoken for all of those great things it has going for it, but I'm not gonna deal with all this nonsense when other PvP/PvE games exist.

I think i better solution to the lighthook would be if you enter layer 2 with it the player should not be able to loot anything and not being able to use the deepdrill on that safe run, imo with that and some balancing around it it could so lighthook instead of being a emergency button it be a more of a trial thingy to new players to experiment and be more prepared to layer 2 without risking of wiping their character, and to complement that the lighthook duration should be extended and maybe the player should get the loot by leaving with the deepdrill with some exception to items like enchant stones

Just realize this maybe the reason arch give us the portable lamp backpack

I would argue that the light hook is a necessary evil because if you are bad at fighting the Layer 2 mobs/doing the run to chaser without the lighthook active on death you would need to make a new character every time you wanted to get 1 run of practice in which would obviously be annoying as fuck. And also if the lighthook had to be activated manually then exploring would be even more desensitivized as you could get jumped and die at any moment, or fall victim to any of the dialog traps you mentioned. Overall I agree with everything else though, Especially Firfire, it was so dissapointing when I first got there

I definitely agree with the whole lack of clothing and cool gear aspect that Layer 2 suffers from, I legit went out and got a 3-star god roll immortal helm in 1 hour by just farming Crypt which felt so much more rewarding than the gear you get in Layer 2

In my opinion light hook is necessary to function the way it does now, except for the part where you have to wait for your light hook to give you 20 minutes of light hook in your next run.

I think many games can learn from the foundation of Deepwoken, not the Perma death, but how the world feels lived in itself many games feel dry with the places (looking at you type:// soul, yba, aut. blox fruits, gpo). sometimes the feel of the game is much more important than the gameplay. I don't know how you all feel about it, but I like it when my game has a story, tales of others who walked the same path making you feel like just another part of the larger world you live in, unlike the chosen hero. well, this is my little rant I wish that more games made esthetic and worlds as immersive as deep visual, and gameplay-wise. the game is not perfect but with polish and fresh ideas it sure as hell can be.

in my opinion, the greatest issue with layer two is that the game propose as a roguelike, but infact not. l2 has almost no random generation (Except for loot lmao) and every run feels exactly the same. spawn, turn on the generator, beat chaser, turn the obelisks, kill ethiron, flee. do it 2-10 times. a literal chore.

I'm pretty sure the reason you can't take items back up from layer 2 until you beat chaser is because it's stuck in a timeloop, and beating chaser ends the timeloop.

the layer 2 problems u were talking about is not getting changed for speedrunners, ive seen it in update logs, for example they said they didnt fix clipping through walls for speedrunners etc