This is why when Kira's actions were called out by everyone in Super Robot Wars Z it was so beautiful. SRW fixed a core problem and made the events of the show better, it helped that you could save Stella aswell.

When your fanfic is a 100x more interesting than the actual 2nd half of Destiny.

_"Just because your correct doesn't mean your right"_

The funniest part of your proposed ending of Destiny would be if Lunamaria got the Strike Freedom and STILL had trouble hitting anything in spite of all the guns her new Gundam had.

Boofire, I'm gonna say this: One part of the entirety of the Destiny trainwreck rests SOLELY on the writer and director of the show, Chiaki Morisawa and her husband Mitsuo Fukuda. At the time the show was going on, she had brain cancer and turned in the scripts late. Not only that, she falsely accused Cagalli's Seiyou of having an affair with Fukuda, and Shinn's Seiyou stood up for her, hence why their characters got shat on by her as a result. Cagalli's Seiyou didn't come back as a result until SD Gundam G Generation World to voice Cagalli again. The only good things that came out of Destiny's trainwreck was that Shinn's Seiyou married Lunamaria's Seiyou and Super Robot Wars Z basically RIGHTING THE WRONGS that Destiny made. Shinn's Seiyou even proclaimed that Shinn in Super Robot Wars Z is the "True" Shinn, cause Shinn ACTUALLY gets character development in it compared to the actual show. Seed AS A WHOLE needs a SERIOUS REBOOT at this point.

Welcome to the “Disappointed in Destiny club” man (been a member since the series ended). The most frustrating about Gundam Seed Destiny is that it honestly could’ve been one of the best Gundam series ever, sadly instead of portraying Kira and Shinn as equal good guys with their point of view of what is right, the show devolves into fan fiction tier awfulness. It’s a shame, since I do like some of the characters and mobile suits (yes I do like Shinn and the Destiny). In your version, I personally would have Shinn keep the Destiny as a way of choosing his own “destiny” so to speak.

I actually loved the start of Seed Destiny: particularly the destabilizing terrorist attack by people who just couldn't forgive or forget the Bloody Valentine incident, the colony drop that's blasted to bits but still causes widespread devastation - and the way this pushes a fragile peace toward a seemingly inevitable war, dragging even the divine nation of Orb down into the fray. Imagine, for instance, if Cagalli had stayed in control of Orb - and found herself obligated to conduct this war effort herself, despite her pacifist ideal - rather than Orb's involvement in the war being the product of a bunch of weasels undermining her authority, instead it's a seemingly necessary and difficult step in order to defend the nation... I dunno, I feel like armchair quarterbacking the show after the fact is a bit meaningless - but at the same time there were elements there I was really enjoying, and I like to think about how it could have played out if those were upheld instead of undermined.

What seed did right was naming titular gundams on philosophy, this actually reflects zaft's true ideals instead of Earth alliance's violent naming conventions: calamity, strike, blitz, raider, forbidden, blitz, buster, duel. Well, even aegis is technically a shield used only in war. Scratch that, they zaft had abyss and chaos that's tacked on with Gaia, foreshadowing the events of seed destiny where Gaia is once again plunged into abyssal chaos. Stellar is a girl who represents innocence in the face of violence. Her actions are motivated by her aversion to death. She symbolises the world of the cosmic era at that point. Which is why she is grouped with chaos and abyss every time she sorties. But this later became destruction (destroy). Kira killing stellar implies his failure to save the world from destruction due to his failure to understand the conflicts happening at that time. I agree, kidnapping cagali and not opening up to a talk with the orb nobilities is his fatal flaw. He arbitrates by striking and acting on impulse, thereby limiting freedom. Your fanfic just cranked it up to 11. My understanding of destiny isn't the cycle of hatred. Pitting shin's destiny against durandal's destiny plan was something I really hoped to watch. Durandal's view of destiny is through taking away the freedom of everyone. Which opposes shin's as his gundam rose from freedom's ashes as he discards his impulse. The destiny of humanity is freedom and justice eternal, it requires faith in humanity for that to be achieved. Shin's character growth will begin with him killing freedom and the pretentious archangel (shout out to Lucifer who thinks he can play god with his power and charisma) out of impulse. He kills justice (athrun) because he thinks that it is his destiny (duty bound as a soldier and having lost his freedom). Before he finally defects after a lot of self doubt due to the dissonance between protecting others he love and ended up killing them instead. Lunamaria begins to blame shin for the loss of her sister and crush and loses grasp of her sanity and become an emotional wreck. Lunamaria will battle shinn with her impulse to avenge the death of her sister and her crush. Because impulse is an immature emotion due to failure to understand one's true destiny And the struggles of humanity, it will be destroyed by shinn but the core splendour and lunamaria is captured by shinn. Essentially making it out as shinn saving lunamaria's humanity (her splendid core), which he could not for stellar who had been engulfed by. death and destruction. His success is not because he acted on impulse, but because he understood his true destiny (protecting the weak (lunamaria and her immature impulses) with his power, which was what Kira and the immature shinn failed to do with stellar due to shinn's immature impulses and Kira's twisted notion of freedom). The two reconcile and lunamaria joins the eternal and pilots a new mobile suit (Faith gundam (long range support gundam to support destiny) cementing her faith in shinn's ideal destiny for humanity. Now it sets the stage for their fight against durandal's destiny. Durandal's destiny is nihilistic, and legend essentially represents legacies of the past which stems from their belief in the twisted providence (le crueset). Notice how durandal essentially wants to play god when he is only human? Seeing as the main core faith pilots have deserted Rey is promoted into white uniform zaft captain. Implying that durandal no longer has faith in humanity. Whereas the clyne faction does. Shinn's destiny and Luna's faith represents humanity's hope. Both rose from the ashes of the fallen ideals of freedom and justice. It's essentially a battle of mankind's destiny of eteranal freedom and justice against durandal's destiny plan that is unjust and robs people's freedom. Whereas le crueset wants to bring an end to humanity because. Durandal wants to bring an end to what makes us human. We can lose freedom and the justice in the short term. But we must never forget humanity's true destiny and have faith in them. For in doing so, we can bring forth another age of freedom and justice. Humanity is destined for goodness (that is what the clyne faction and the eternal represents) I'd do away with strike freedom and infinite justice. It's a bad concept with lazy naming sense. Infinite justice as a melee gundam with crazy amount of blades essentially implies that you mete out justice with infinite cuts. Strike freedom is an amalgamation of everything powerful in C.E. which implies that only the powerful can be free. That is Kira's flawed idealism and even Kira yamato, despite his power as the ultimate coordinator and his gundam, falls prey to his own impulses using force and killing a certain stellar individual instead of saving her from death and destruction. Which is why he meets his end under shinn's impulse.

"Kira 'Jesus' Yamato" Me: "MUST. SUPRESS. CRUSADE. URGES." "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH..."

A better analogy: SEED: The Force Awakens First half of GSD: The Last Jedi GSD, from episode 39 onwards: The Rise of Skywalker, the final season of Game of Thrones Stargazer: The Mandalorian

8:30, To be fair, team Kira knew that ZAFT was targeting Lacus for assassination, it make sense that they didn't attempt to contact them, because they couldn't trust anybody from ZAFT, any careless move from their end would have endangered Lacus. And I also understand their doubt with Athrun because even Athrun despite being aware of Meer being a fake Lacus didn't do anything about it so the reaching out to the Minerva argument isn't really a strong one in my opinion. But attacking them for pacifism (TWICE) was pretty damn stupid I agree, they should have went to ORB in the first place...

It was a nice review and all but you see, at this moment... Cagalli is crying her heart out!

The biggest sin of Seed Destiny was switching the protagonists so early in the series. The first 10 or so episodes were really good but then it shifted its focus back to Kira and everyone else. Even though Shinn was an angry douche most of the time, at least he had character flaws, unlike Kira. He deserved a better character arc than becoming the chairman’s butt boy.

Can we get a "Nobody understands G gundam (it isn't all about shining fingers)"

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS THE CORE PROBLEM WITH DESTINY! Im so happy -w-

Reintroducing Kira and his gang is the biggest mistake on GSD. Kira should've died at the end of SEED alongside with Mu. Neo should've been at least Mu's clone, not exactly the same person. It would be a lot more interesting if they depict Eternal as a villain, not the saviour of the universe they claimed to be. I want to see how corrupt Lacus' ideals could've become, I want to see Meer's approach to this kind of problem instead of Meer being a generic popstar.

The point when Shinn stopped asking questions, and started blindly following Durrandal and Rey was when he dropped right off the radar for me. Being an unquestioning puppet meant he lost his character by definition. It could be anyone in the Destiny's cockpit after that point, it wouldn't have mattered. I don't think _Archangel_ thought they were right in the absolute, however I do agree they should have tried to talk more, to persuade the other forces to lay down their arms instead of fighting. They could have hailed _Minerva_ before the latter charged the Tannhauser, and then Kira wouldn't have had to shoot it out, killing any crew too close to the massive gun. As to Cagalli being able to direct Orb toward peace, unfortunately she had been reduced to a puppet figure by that time. Of course, the _SEED_ version of Cagalli would have fought back for control. For whatever reason, she is much more of a bystander in _Destiny_ , which bothers me greatly. She used to infiltrate colonies and participate with warriors to find the answers she sought. So why is she shown standing by and waiting, being passive? Probably the same reason Shinn got shifted to the back row: because someone demanded Kira to take the spotlight. I greatly dislike the whole 'Ultimate Coordinator' business. Saying that someone made an attempt at a 'perfect' human being, and actually achieved it in Kira, as though humanity had zero potential to go further. It's extremely pessimistic, and also egotistical. Not so much on Kira's part since he had no idea, but on the part of his creators, defining him as the end-point. Of course other humans would react by attempting to assassinate Kira, to try to wipe away this image of perfection, just as they did George Glenn and the other Coordinators. That's what happens when one race tries to assert itself as superior: th opporessed fight back. For understanding, you do not stand above the other party; you stand _with_ them, otherwise no understanding can be achieved. This is why peace never came to any _Gundam_ series: someone always tried to stand above another. And in _Destiny_ , the one trying to stand highest is Durrendal, with his plan. But so many others try to stand atop others, and therefore fire their weapons before trying to talk. Naturally this includes _Archangel_ and its crew. But like Kira, Shinn also never tried to talk. He shut others down, spoke in a way that would naturally anger them, and blamed Cagalli and Athrun for Orb's failure to protect his family. Shinn was not open because of his anger. Because of the anger, he positioned himself above others. Andthi makes him no better than those others, Kira included.

Just gonna say, I loved Shinn. Even with what happens later on, he gets a spot on my favourite Gundam character list. It's a damn shame what happened with Seed Destiny.

There were three points where Destiny could have added rocket fuel to its plot and character development, and it wimped out each time. The first was not assassinating Lacus. That would have instantly both given the Archangel crew some legit gravity to stage their little battlefield interventions AND justified Meer's existence in the show. The second was not killing Kira off, as you stated, which could have had a profound effect on Athrun and polarized HIS character arc. And the third was not killing Athrun and Meyrin off, as you also stated, which should have been the turn for Shinn. But ah well...

Since you mentioned Shinn losing some respect for Athrun after the events of episode 28, I noticed another bit of wasted potential regarding that. Episode 28 didn't just come with the destruction of the Savior. Rey's Zaku Phantom and Luna's Zaku Warrior were also destroyed (thanks a lot, Kira). The Impulse was the only functioning mobile suit the Minerva had from then until getting the Destiny and Legend at Gibraltar. This should naturally put a lot of pressure on Shinn to become as strong as possible to protect the whole crew because Rey, Luna, and Athrun can't back him up in battle. But the story never gets any milage out of that scenario since the Minerva docks at a ZAFT base and receives support more or less immediately and Shinn's arc moves to focus on Stella's release, death, and revenge on the Freedom earlier than it needed to.

I picked up DW Gundam 2 again lately, and immediately play Shinn's story, because this is the only time I've ever seen Shinn roasting Kira and Athrun for their hypocrisy lol And I love the way Shinn bonded with Loran and Kamille in that story mode too, those two makes a surprisingly good mentor figures for him

Shin: Hes not even that strong Athrun: *dismembers Destiny gundam in the final episode* Shin: @_@

Destiny shouldn’t have had so much focus on the Archangel and made them background or supporting characters like Char and Amuro were during Zeta so that the new cast had time to shine. I loved the idea to have Lunamaria and Shinn pilot the Strike Freedom and ♾Justice and think that would have been amazing and a great way to pass the torch to them from Kira and Athrun

I understand shinns anger

00 shows this story way better. Shows how using force to make peace doesn’t work. The second season is Celestial Being realizing how wrong they were.

I watched Seed Destiny as a kid, not knowing that Seed exist. When Kira came in like I'm suppose to know who is he, I was confused as hell and totally felt the same way as you said, he feels super self righteous and ignorance. And I was super sad that they did Shin dirty for the rest of the series.

Didn’t Athrun chastise Kira, Cagalli, and the Archangel when they met after the first battle that the Archangel intervened in because they were making things worse? As for Shinn, I just with he’d have become a villain by his own choices instead of being manipulated.

While I do like the idea of Shin and Lunamaria becoming the pilots of the infinite justice and the strike freedom, I do think it would work a bit better to have Shin steal the Destiny when he defects as it shows him taking control of his own destiny after having been controlled by it (referring to both the cycle of hate and durendals plans for him) for so long, and in doing so creates a new future for the CE where others are free to do the same. also, you totally need to watch Gundam SEED Stargazer, its a 3 episode OVA that takes place over the course of Destiny, and is generally considered to be one of (if not the only) truly great things to come out of the Cosmic Era.

True I liked Shinn what a waste. I loved how Kira was shocked when Shinn dodged his Attack. Athrun was also wasted. He gave the shaft to Kira but then shilled to him.

So no one will talk about on how Rey completely manipulate Shinn in the entire series, he always tell that Shinn's doing is absolute and just. And how all the characters faction try to stand above other factions? And everyone is trying to kill each other before they could talk so they can resolve the problem? Well the whole series is so problematic, so there's no point in arguing why the series lost it's potential 🤷‍♂️

Not gonna lie: Back when Destiny was still airing I still had some hope when the duel between the Impulse and the Freedom was about to start. I hoped that this fight put Kira finally on the spot and pointed his hypocrisy out. Exposing how hard he screwed everything up until this point, from Cagalli to Stella, with the later actually getting killed thanks to him and people realizing that something like a sole savior does not exist (esspecially Athrun which would've made a lot of thematical sense in that regard). No matter what people say: I think Shinn was right in this situation. Kira made mistake after mistake after mistake and things got worse the more he got involved, and yet nobody tried to stop him in any meaningfull way. This could've become an amazing moment if Kira would've be forced to make a choice: Either A.: Realizing that he's no different from the people he considers villains and thus start to change his ways (By directly stating he was wrong) or B.: Stay stubborn and thus getting rightfully axed by Shinn. And, yeah. I still vividly remember how much and hard I cheered when the Freedom blew up. Not only was I happy thinking he finally had gotten rid of that waste of space pilot, but I also felt proud for Shinn considering he got an amazing and straight forward victory against the definition of a Gary Stu despite having an infirior machine. Long story short however: I share Boofires opinion on Shinn fully. If the writters would've wanted to he could have become the best protagonist in Gundams entire franchise-history. also: Can we please get your version of seed as a remake? that would legit make for an amazing Gundam series.

wouldve been interesting if kira was made into the villain, which he honestly should've been

It stuck to me Shinn's empathy with Athrun in the beginning, seeing through him in a way even Cagalli couldn't. He said Cagalli didn't understand anything and that he felt sorry for Athrun for it as he was still weighed down by his past as a Zala. It was surprising that Shinn later questioned Athrun's skills as a FAITH member and forgot the very thing he felt sorry for that could have factored down to his weakness.

I couldn't stand Athrun's character. He comes across as indecisive and can only think when Kira tells him to. Also the fact that he defects from Zaft twice with no repercussions really gives the impression that Athrun's entire character is just being Kira's friend

A might makes right character becomes human when he doubts his own actions. That's what Shinn needed the most.

I want to point out in SRW Z1 the whole cast bash Kira and crew for there actions. They did kind of bring justice to Seed Destiny.

I think it is often overlooked but one of the reasons Seed Destiny fell a part was because the writer for the show, Chiaki Morosawa was in and out of Hospital during much of the production of Seed Destiny. At times she was barely able to do any work what so ever.

Kira not dying in Seed in the duel with Athrun was painful to see. Not at all scratched just temporarily comatose on top of that coming back as a tyrannical “pacifist”. Caused so many unnecessary deaths by attempting to forcibly stop conflict.

I'm glad to hear that you are going to do some more of these. It is fun to hear peoples option on the actual series instead of just the model kits on youtube

Seeing this video, my child self was right Stella should've been alive Her presense give Shinn at least meaning. No wonder my childself hate Stella's death

I'll just pretend your version is the real one and go on with my life. Thank you for it. I'm Shinn fan and I share your opinion on GSD

My bois! What have you done BOOFIRE!? Beautiful Destiny and Strike Freedom! So did the last 11 episodes make you angry?

About the explosion at the end if the Freedom vs Impulse fight, that was from the Minerva's positron cannon, which was aimed at the Archangel, and i don't recall the Freedom being that close to said positron cannon shot. Positrons are antimatter, only 2 grams of which can destroy any city on the planet.

8:19 - Kira does stay away. Just coincidentally, there's a small explosion, Stella just happens to see Freedom because the story demands it, then freaks out and goes full berserk mode ready to blast Shinn point blank range. The Minerva was about to fire at her too, but Kira deals the killing blow.

I can say that the direction you point for the series in the video its really really good i enjoyed a lot. I personally like Shinn and its a real shame what they left for his character in the remaining plot of GSD but SRW Z give me hope that he could recieve better treatment in the future.

Poor boofire... he heard the warnings and he went through with it anyways. And now he has been fully revealed to the love of Team Jesus Yamato. I sympathize, dude- the CE timeline SUCKS from a story perspective.

being a fan of kira from seed and not particularly caring about shinn to begin with i didn't mind that last half of destiny.

There’s a very easy thing they could’ve done for Destiny, and all they had to do was copy a TNT made for tv movie from the late 90s with Sam Shepard and Dennis Quaid. “Purgatory” is a movie about all the famous wild west gunfighters resurrected and given a second chance at a pacifist lifestyle to earn their ticket into heaven. A young man who tagged along with a pack of truly villainous outlaws stumbles into the likes of Wild Bill, Jesse James, and Billy the Kid. The young man, named Sonny, eventually has to make a choice and risk his life for what’s right. It’s through this decision of self sacrifice that all the famous gunfighters come out of the woodwork for one last, dare I say biblical, showdown. That’s what Destiny could’ve been: Shinn as the voice of empathy, passion, and retribution, that convinces all these famous ace pilots and crew from SEED to come out of hiding, and stand up for one last mission to kill off Blue Cosmos, and give the rest of humanity a chance to defuse the situation.

As someone who watched Seed Destiny in full, and who saw Shinn redeemed in SRW Z like GinraiPrime666 detailed, I think your video was extremely interesting, particularly pointing out the deeper meaning of "Destiny". I'll check out your other videos and probably comment again. And yes, the troubled production needed a little courage!

14:55 I don't think it's nonsensical. Shinn starts to hate Athrun because he criticized him with honesty, while Durandal and Rey just shield him and praise him no matter what he did. Being the kid that he is, Shinn will naturally lean toward Durandal and Rey instead of Athrun.

I recall desiny had last minute rewrites and changes in plot points. You can see that in the intros and endings where characters that are dead in the show but alive in the opening or endings.

Yesss more Gundam reviews! Can't wait for your 00 one, I'm interested in your opinion.

You know what piss off people the most In the gundamwiki shinn is label as a " *PROTAGONIST WHO LOST IN HIS SERIES* "

THANK YOU! Holy MOLY someone FINALLY gets Shinn more than I thought. He is a teen that despises his own weaknesses. "I am no longer the helpless child I used to be!" "I have the power to change fate itself!" Stems from Shinn's ability to do nothing to save his family's life that faithful day.

God, hearing Kira's voice in the English dub makes me violently cringe. I'd rather be in Sydney during Operation British.

Amazing my friend. I will put this video on my favorite. My head explodes when the impulse became Justice and MAKE SENSE With the character. You got a brazilian fan here.

My comment is 2 years late but you are absolutely right. Shinn had so much potential, but was executed SO POORLY that I could only laugh. The part imo when he could have switched sides. Was during the battle in the rain with athrun. It may be too idealistic, but In my mind, I wished THAT was when Shinn fended off Rei delivered a blow that incapacitated the Providence with Destiny took Athrun and Meyrin in the rain and fled.

The ONA/OVA Gundam Seed C.E. 73 Stargazer is worth watching. It has potential but it's pretty short though. It doesn't have Kira and friends. It also give more perspectives on the whole colony drop like event and even though short, gives a story from two perspectives essentially.

Thank you so much man. I loved Destiny 1st half but was always frustrated with the 2nd. Now I can imagine a better outcome for the zaft team thanks for your hard work.

I am curious how the specifics would’ve went in this alternate story like the delivery of the 2 gundams and the fate of the 2 that are left behind as well as Durandal, Ray and Gladys’ relationship. There’s also Caggali and Lacus with how their roles would have changed. Neo as well, maybe if he got his memories back could enlighten Shinn on the kind of man Kira was since that can no longer happen with Kira and Athrun dead and then there’s the Akatsuki... maybe used to give the Impulse and Destiny time to escape and use their new gundams after the assumed severe beating they took. I guess the last parts to address and wonder are Meer’s ultimate fate and role as well as that guy who escaped from Orb (name escapes me now)

What are your feelings about Destiny now that Gundam Seed Freedom has been announced? Will you also be analyzing Gundam Seed Freedom after uts released?

I saw that you were one of the script readers for the latest Mangs character spotlight. That was pretty cool.

I still liked it. Kira Yamato. Freedom. Taking Off!

Man, this is exactly what i had in mind when i rewatched gsd so many times. But sadly the dumpster fire continued to a raging continental fire that will never burn out. I saw that Shin had the potential, but christ sake kira.... The hypocrisy was so under the radar from the first few rewatchs, but then eventually i figured it out and started putting the pieces together. I eventually started hating it. Ngl i loved gs to gsd on my first watch around with no bias. But eventually my mind got curious from how it couldve ended differently and sought out the blatant dumpster fire that was in my face.

This made me realize that Char’s plan in CCA was to achieve understanding through force.

As somebody who likes SEED and SEED Destiny, I respect your and many others' opinions on those shows.

As someone who watched Destiny as it was coming out in Japan back in 2004 (My god I'm old), I understand how BOOFIRE feels. The last half is a complete shit show and 14 years later just thinking of the show pisses me off. For all of SEED's faults, I thought it was an okay show in the same vain as Gundam Wing: It wasn't bad but wasn't good either. After watching Destiny, even to this day, I can't watch SEED because it makes me think of Destiny and I can't get through it. Believe me, I thought also that Destiny had so much potential, that it could be better than its predecessor. But when Kira showed up with the Freedom freshly rebuilt, I knew something was off. I remember when me and a buddy watched the Impulse vs Freedom episode, we were so happy seeing the Freedom get blown up even though we both knew Kira survived. That's how frustrated I was with Kira and his bullshit. I think that's when I knew this show was dead and nothing could revive it. I really like BOO's way of fixing the last half of Destiny and would like to hear a more in depth version of it just out of curiosity. I understand his meaning of Shinn getting Infinite Justice and Lunamaria getting Super Freedom but I think just giving him the Destiny probably would have been more marketable. But then again I doubt Bandai/Sunrise would allow their money maker Jesus Yamato to die or Fukuda and Morisawa would have the brain cells needed to come up with that scenario. One final thing I'll say is something that wasn't brought up is how the whole Mu La Flaga/Neo Roanoake ordeal was dealt with. I thought there could be more to it than Mu survives the ending of SEED and has memory altered, even though he clearly died i.e being vaporized by ship beam cannon plus helmet floating in the vacuum of space with blood around it equals dead. Needless to say this didn't set well with me. Again, a lot of potential wasted. Anyway, loved the review and am now subscribed. Keep up the good work.

really nice review and i really liked your version of how event should have gone

This could've been a great fanfic, now I wanna write one with this video in mind.

All this shit would've been avoided if the incident with Cagalli and Shinn's VAs didn't escalate and Kira's gang to never have that much significance. Kira can still show up, yes. He can use the Freedom and do some cool stuff but never in the level that he did in GSD. Maybe more of a silent defender for Lacus. I like your idea of killing Kira on this but I do think killing Athrun and Meyrin is maybe a bit too Tomino. I think it's fine if he stops midway in his murder-spree on Athrun and realizes it there with which causes them to get away. Then, when Shinn deserts the Minerva he goes to ORB and meets up with Athrun there and then they get, well, I wanna say something like: The Infinite Justice and some sort of Freedom Impulse? Also, Athrun is the only sensible character in this show.

great review, this is the best review i have seen about Gundam Seed Destiny. Hope you do more.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Gundam X It's one of my Favorite AUs

Peace can never be achieved through force? Brave words coming from someone within colony dropping distance Damn you’re version really made me see Shin in a different light and how his potential was wasted Time to summon fanfic writers

it is also an objective fact that Kagali was trying and failing; and the final proof of that is the fact that the marriage would be the move in which Unato and the other Emirs would take power through her. And again, there ware scenes in which Kira was showing hesitations about his actions. As per force used by Archangel against Minerva: Minerva is a subordinate under the command of the administration that tried to kill you, do you honestly think in a battlefield situation they can take the time to sit down and talk. As per the Stella incident, there are IFF and communication frequencies used by allied forces, I sincerely doubt enemies would be actively talking during a fight (except for Kira and Athrun, it makes sense they would talk during the fight as they know each other). Also, Shin is a parallel of Athrun, he saught power as he watched those he loved dies. the thing that differentiate them is the turn they take. Shin is the worst case scenario which is swallowed up by power; whereas athrun remained struggling and woke up to the manipulation of the chairman later on. but i do agree in most of your points on shin actually killing Kira. but for that to be the turning point for shin to be a hero, yeah. thats a stretch. Shin never let go of his past. he kept his sister's phone remember? as for using force to stop the conflict: in SEED OG, Lacus even said during the first launch of the METEOR system that they were probably being evil and hypocritical for they call for peace but with guns in their hands. They never claimed they are in the absolute right, but are rather people fighting for what they believe in, they just happened to be right in the end.

Well, the other Orb representatives weren’t really listening to Cagalli, so that treaty would’ve happened anyway.

I'm gonna talk as someone who likes SEED Destiny, but not to the blinding extent that I can't see the flaws in it. In all honesty I feel sorry for the character of Kira. His arc, in my eyes at least, was finished in the original SEED and he should of most definitely been kept in the background, a support character to Shinn (who I feel even more sorry for... the story butchered that poor kid) and Athrun. The problem is that the writers wanted SOOOOOOOO badly for Kira to be the main character again that they destroyed the potential for his character and the potential for their show in the process. Kira should of been the reluctant war vet, called in when there was no other choice and the heroes' backs were against the wall. Not as a savior, but as needed back up and a chance to regroup. Shinn should stayed the focus of the story. I do believe that Kira was supposed to stayed away from Shinn and Stella, but the writers couldn't help shoving in the frame for some more conflict. Maybe I'm moreso a fan of the potential of SEED Destiny than the series itself, but I do still like it. It's not my favorite series, but as was said, it could of been great with a few simple tweaks, which makes what the powers behind that series did even more tragic. By wanking their favorite characters, they killed their own series.

You kind of put voice here to a lot of core problems I had with SEED Destiny but hadn't quite developed as thoroughly as you had. You're absolutely right in that the real tragedy of the series isn't that it's bad, but that it had all the ingredients to be great, and then almost systematically squandered every single one of them in the name of a wish-fulfillment fantasy.

Here we go....... As much as this reimagining is amazing and competent in comparison, I personally did like the seeds they planted elsewhere that the trio was ultimately meant to unite in their fight. This needed to be handled properly unlike the pure butchery that did transpire Hmmm.....

Great video! I made a video analysis on SEED Destiny as well, and this one echoes a lot of both the love and disappointment I felt when I made it. I think your hypothetical scenario was way better than what I could come up with though, lol.

I remember watching this show thinking "oh this seems cool" then halfway shit was just happening and I was so confused, this explains why and what's dope is that this vid also provides some alternatives

Dude, why are you not a Gundam Script/Storywriter. I would pay good money whit how good your what if of what Destiny could'ved done. Seriously though, you just nailed why I hated Destiny. The first half was good but after Shinn and Kira's fight alonside Shinn vs Athrun and Meyrin with Kira, Athrun and Meyrin aurviving I started to hate it. Personally, I am okay with first half Shinn, it was Final half Shinn that I hated. Anyways, great job Boo! Please do Gundam X first. I loved 00 but X was part of my childhood and I want to see it in your perspective. Lastly, now I wish you do fanfic. I wanna know how you'll do with your what if which already shapes up to how I wanted Destiny to be. The concequences, everything. I am excited for your next Gundam vid.

I think the most frustrating thing about Destiny as a whole, to which is why even to this day it still gets talked about more than even more recent Gundam shows. Is the fact that the amount of holes and poor handling of ideas that it plants the seed(pun slightly intended) to anyone competent could look at and then improve it greatly. So much so that I bet if you took a dartboard, then put a bunch of characters, concepts and ideas from Destiny itself then tossed a dart to fix that one thing, someone would not be strayed for good ideas. Even your own fanfiction is leagues better than what Destiny started. Destiny itself has so much for a writer to play with and every idea chosen was dropped, poorly handled or a bad idea that remained a bad idea. For example I'm surprised you didn't talk much about Mu AKA Neo in this video, who's death was needlessly retconned to be brought back to Destiny to be a terrible Char clone, a complete asshole than everything he did up to that point forgotten about when he takes off the mask, all to a character that amounted to absolutely nothing from start to finish. Now then reason I picked him is that even a bad idea like this could have been salvaged as soon as you start thinking about him that instead everything Kira did post Impulse/Freedom fight, Mu took the place instead, even piloting the Strike Freedom. When you think that on it's own even with Destiny's other flaws his character goes from being insultingly pointless to having a justification for a solid character arc. This would have to acknowledge the shitty things he did as Neo and feel guilt as his memories return that his actions got Kira killed (Or unable to fight anymore, Kira doesn't even need to be killed, but he NEEDS to be out of commission for the rest of the show in his current context.) because he was the one who broke his promise to Shinn to take Stella away from the war, by putting her in the Destory which led to Kira's current condition. Have his Neo history told to the Archangel crew from someone or Mu himself to cause resentment and distrust while Ramius as the captain willing to give a chance to her former lover while on top of the fact they don't have any other pilot to rely on since Kira can't fight anymore. To then furthermore would lead to him getting the Strike Freedom to another point you can build upon the guilt he feels that the man responsible for putting Kira in his current condition is now being given the suit that was made for him. Mu can even treat it as self atonement for his past sins and if Kira is still alive you can even have him take it to safeguard until the day Kira is able to fight again. Hell even the suit itself looks like something he'd pilot more then the Akatsuki even to the not funnels, the Dragoons. Continuing on, Mu and Shinn would have a genuine relationship dynamic we've seen first hand since the two actually met face to face unlike Shinn and Kira from being tied to Stella. One rightfully feels guilt for what he done, while the other rightfully wants his revenge for that broken promise. This relationship can greatly improve too depending on how other factors of Destiny is changed where say if Athrun really does die, Shinn defects, Mu could actually be closer to that Quattro inspiration a little more. Hell you can even start that before Shinn defects where he doubts his own feelings of revenge for Mu because of everything that happened to Athrun up to that point. Even the final fight between the Freedom and the Legend would have more weight cause Mu had a lot more of a connection to Rau than Kira did and would ESPECIALLY feel a lot more about Rey than Kira did. There's more stuff you can work with too, but the point I think is made. And all of that is just ONE character to which was a bad idea to begin with and you can get so much more mileage out of it without even going into if you rewrote everything. I could even go on with a wasted potential of a relationship between Shinn and Cagalli which could shine some light on some really stupid things about Orb in general with Shinn being the perfect character to expose Orb's hypocrisy. EVEN LACUS AND KIRA you can make work without killing them off if you want extra hard mode fanfiction. You mention how Flay and Kira's relationship went no where, honestly what I would explore is if Kira's and Lacus's relationship is all that different except Lacus isn't a straight conniving bitch about everything. In an essence Lacus may be kind hearted, is Kira really acting as his own man or is does it so happen that Lacus's manipulation, unintentional or not, just so happen to align with Kira's true nature so he never noticed. If you took Lacus gradually into a villain role this would be very interesting and really there's not a jack of a lot you can do with Kira otherwise. So on and so on you can continue to explore a bunch of characters and ideas and make these pieces actually fit instead of trying to put them together into a toilet to flush and hope something gets put together. However the final point of all is this, no matter what idea you want to change, improve upon, throw out whatever. The fact of the matter is this. This story was set up and was about entirely Shinn's story and growth as a character. Betraying that story half way through to focus on a character that already had their story told then adding nothing to it. All the while tossing Shinn aside and assassinating his character and almost even a career with Kenichi Suzumura. Then forcing Shinn's resolution upon him at the story's end without it earned, is Destiny's biggest sin. No matter what, Shinn's story must be the main focus in any attempt to fix Destiny. Good video, Destiny makes me mad that most bad media doesn't. Massively wasted potential is far worse than simple garbage.

I fundamentally disagree with any attempt to fix the destiny train wreck plot by having Shinn switch sides. That kind of thing is what makes the original SEED so much worse than 0079 to begin with. Amuro is just a soldier for example. He might have his own ideals but he is a kid in over his head at the end of the day. Shinn should fight for ZAFT until the conclusion of the conflict but continue to grow as a person.

Weird. I thought you would have talked about Neo Roanoke being Mu La Flaga.

I've never heard kira Yamato referred to as an arrogant twink before, which is odd because that's extremely accurate

Your alternative story is perfect, especially since the original name of the Infinite Justice was the "Knight Justice". Yeah, would've fit perfectly in the sense of chivalry and protecting the weak and all.... That aside, I'll be waiting for the day you do a G Gundam video, the Gundam that Tomino actually loved.

Kira isnt a hero in this series. He's the villain, wearing the cloak of justice. He should have died or suffered in this series at least a bit.

I know of all of Gundam SEED's missed potential. That's why I appreciate those that learned from its mistakes. Also Gundam AGE> SEED and Destiny.

If not goes tomino ways, SRW Z (the first one, PS2) already gives us great aternative stories. Other than athrun, Camille comes up to follow up shinn to grow up. Also SRWZ was the first time the original voice cast : Kenichi Suzumura finally deeply understands shinn personality and characters(he's FF7 Zack's VA too btw). He really dislike for why shinn become that kind of edgelord. Also we can tell he really frustrated when the destiny ends, some fanatic fans accuse him for why destiny fails. If not because of that show he got to become intimate with Maaya Sakamoto, who eventually become his wife, may be he's ended his life as VA that time.

Honestly tho seed destiny is doomed by being a continuation of seed. During the times they aired this me and highschool nerd argue how crappy both were.

Funny thing is, I remember that back then when Seed Destiny, that there where rumors about what happened with the story. Rumors about a far more grim story that what we seen. The only thing we get to know for real was that apparently one of the higher ups (director or writer, I don't remember clearly) get in a dispute with Kagali's VA, thus she kind of disappearing from the show. What I wanna get to is that I wouldn't be surprised if some of the theory exposed here was part of what was originally planned to happen. It does fit into something Japanese people hate the most on their media: change. Such a drastic change as having one or more main characters from the previous series would have not been well received by Japanese audiences, and the powers may be from back then, fearing the hypothetical backlash, decided to back things down before any damage was done, but in the process rehashing last season's story to keep the schedule. Again, this falls into speculation but if things went as they where originally planned, who knows, maybe Shin would be a more renowned character now a days.

Love love love your video. 10/10

Explaining Gundam SEED in the fewest words: Kira ruined everything.

For me. The moment when Shinn became a vengeful dipshit after losing his future f*ck-nugget Stella is the moment when I started to see Athrun, not Jesus Kira, as the real protagonist of this series...but that's just me.

I agree with you that removing Kagali from Orb wasn't helpful, but in a vacuum a Gundam showing up at a wedding to object is hilarious.

What I hated most about Destiny was how hard it dropped the ball. Least with Kamille I could see how he was a shit, why he was a shit, how shitty his treatment was, and how he eventually grew and realized the power of understanding. Shinn, they just dumped him in favor of a character that's recognizable...it's like how Gohan got cheated out of being the MC in Z because the (Japanese) fans wanted more Goku in charge...

Love how SEED and 00 have a similar cast in the eng dub And Rau le Creuset is voiced by the same guy who voiced Lord Garmadon

What makes seed destiny great is that it doesn't fall back to traditional gundam themes of fighting war with the power of positivity or some shit, it's about economics being substituted as a new religion "It can't be helped" is the defining theme of the show, with cagalli having to cede political power to the nationalist faction so they can give orb tech to the earth alliance that explicitly wants to genocide coordinators because of a plot by durandal to drop a colony on earth, resulting in a self-propagating war economy similar to the one created by bush and cheney in response to 9/11, and this plays out in a predictable pattern, like a seed in javascript The thematic reason for seed mode is when characters fall in to roles you would expect them to, like hero who brings order and beats up the bad guys, but people don't easily fall in to specialized roles, because they aspire to create their own identities in a world that feels like it is accelerating because of the amount of problems that can't be helped All individuals want is a sense of freedom, to accelerate at their own will in an accelerating universe, and cultivating this sense of freedom is emboldened by market forces that lead people down individual hero's journeys that are ultimately meaningless, hence why shinn wields a double-edged sword called excalibur and fights gundams named after beings from hesiod's theogony I think the message of the story isn't that war is mean, but rather that we will never feel like our lives were worth anything so long as we adhere to the path determined by market forces, which explain's meer's arc TL:DR I think the story has a lot more heart and meaning than westerners give it credit for, and just going by a literal interpretation of the story points to shinn as the self insert character, because he repeatedly gets cucked by the two party system (freedom and justice, blue and red) but luna loves him anyway, similar to fukuda and his wife Also, posting some lore that can't be sourced about fukuda and his wife is counterproductive, and doesn't reinforce humanity's understanding of anything

I always felt and agreed with people when they said that Seed Destiny, sort of want downhill after episode 34. I had heard rumors that Kira's character was supposed to perish in the original script but the fan base went berserk and thus, plot armor kept him alive. Glad Shinn finally got his due in the new Seed Freedom movie.