lol. Some people say the exact opposite too. I’m glad we do both :)

@@WARDRADIO I am too but I’m learning so much from all this, as an Australian concert I learnt so much from the debunking also but now I want the meaty stuff lol

​@Alecia-Brown hi Alecia! Everyone say hi to the Mod

NOW do book of abraham ////

Hi bud. I remember talking with you on Discord. It's been a while.

Yes, many items found in the US and Canada are interesting, and many scholars that have honestly investigated the artifacts found in the US, but evidence suggest they are not just ancient Hebrew writing but tied to cultures simular with those that practiced in the Law of Moses.

Mi'hkmaw (the written script) is principally a recent language (1600's) that primarily consists of glyphs created by a French Catholic missionary priest. There is no correlation between reformed Egyptian and Mi'hkmaw. Someone attempted to compare the Caractors Document and Mi'hkmaw and claimed to have found a dozen similar glyphs. However, Egyptian has 2000 plus glyphs, Mi'hkmaw has 2700. Linguistics indicate that 5 percent of a given language has random correlations with an unrelated language. So one might expect 135 glyphs to randomly correlate. The other problem is that of the 12 or so glyphs that the individual identified, the Mi'hkmaw meanings do not match what the supposed Egyptian glyph matches mean in Egyptian.

@jerrygrover8992 where is your source? That is a different account than with the Jesuit preist and tribe.

Mi’kmaq Hieroglyphic Prayers, 1995. Schmidt and Marshall

@jerrygrover8992 Thanks, I will have to read the book. From the book intro, it doesn't sound like the missionaries created the language but expounded it to contain words like Jesus. Native American name for Christ is creator or Yahweh. "Mi’kmaq Hieroglyphic Prayers is a collection of sacred readings (prayers, narratives, and liturgies) represented by hieroglyphs developed from pictographic symbols used by the Mi’kmaq Indians of Atlantic Canada before European contact, and later expanded by French missionaries. "

Welcome to the ward 🙌🏼

Right?!

Well congratulations you are now less intelligent and educated than before you started watching.

AND..........................???????????????????????????????

I finished them all too and now I’m like what do I do with myself lol

Did he look into the fact that hieroglyphs were deciphered nearly the same year

​@@michalragan5240And Joseph Smith had google also, don't forget about that.

He brought a professional and you want to disprove it is just straight up hiprocacy

The deciphering of Egyptian by French dude went public in 1822. He just got ahold of that and bullshitted it. If the French guy didn't decipher them he would've made up a different unknown language and use it to scam ppl lmao. Egyptian was very convenient for him since 1) his fairy tale involved Egypt 2) noone was smart enough about the hieroglyphs to prove him wrong. He just copied some symbols from the French guy and arranged them into some words and into shorthand to make it seem unique. Christianity is already flawed. But this LDS stuff is even more funny

​​@@michalragan5240the french dude was Champollion. He didn't decipher Egyptian already in 1822, he only figured out the names of the kings and started to get a grasp on the writing system. But this was not something that was published. It would still take until mid 1830s before Champollions early studies were published. And at this time and before, it was only a handful of scholars in France that knew about this early breakthrough. It would take until the early 1900s before these dictionaries would become available for lay people to read. So there was no way for Joseph Smith to get his hands on any english publications of egyptian and the means to translate it at the time of the BOM's publication.

To claim that Joseph Smith would be able to create this characters document just with the knowledge of few hieratics with some greek kings names, is grasping at straws.

​@@jaredite8388don't confuse them with facts it really makes them look like fool's.

He kind of confirms it, but this seems to be an actual calendrical period where the years are counted.

​@jerrygrover8992 I mean the existence of the 7 tribes of Lehi. Cool stuff all around. I downloaded your books

I have the PDF version if you want it

You can get it for free from his website.

@@coltonarrantYes, is it online?

@@coltonarrantgoogle caractors translation jerry grover

I was wondering this forever, thank you! BTW, cardon didn't get to ask any pushback questions. What do you detractors say (if any) about your translation/work?

​@thomasandsheilarock5454 mormonism with the murph podcast gets into this. The episodes are long, but Jerry talks about how he pays to get his work critically reviewed and so far nobody gives him much of pushback.... unless he tells them the source, then they dismiss it out of hand

@jeremims9044 hey thanks! I have long daily drives so I'll listen to those, I appreciate it 😌

That’s interesting, because the BoM and Nephi states they were written in Reformed Egyptian, and it was a unique language that nobody else in the world knew…. How can you possibly claim that Nephi did NOT write in Reformed Egyptian???

​@@MormonWinessesofJesusChristwondering too.

a perfect quote against all Mormons.

“thus turning their skin "black" and being cut off from the Law of Moses. Just like Jews vs Gentiles, where intermarrying with non-covenant people was hugely forbidden, and cut whole groups of people off from the covenants of the Law of Moses (Samaritans)” Are you suggesting that people were disqualified based on their skin tone? Not by rejecting god and his commands? Furthermore, why is Egyptian so important to Book of Mormon when it’s about the revelation of Jesus to native Americans peoples. It would seem contradictory to me believe in JS’s books relating the parallels to Egyptian tradition and temple ceremony when it should have a basis on Hebrew temple traditions?

Since my comment was removed… see next post since I copied my original post knowing ahead of time that it would be so.

thus turning their skin "black" and being cut off from the Law of Moses. Just like Jews vs Gentiles, where intermarrying with non-covenant people was hugely forbidden, and cut whole groups of people off from the covenants of the Law of Moses (Samaritans)” Are you suggesting that people were disqualified based on their skin tone? Not by rejecting god and his commands? Furthermore, why is Egyptian so important to Book of Mormon when it’s about the revelation of Jesus to native Americans peoples. It would seem contradictory to me believe in JS’s books relating the parallels to Egyptian tradition and temple ceremony when it should have a basis on Hebrew temple traditions?

thus turning their skin "kcalb" and being cut off from the Law of Moses. Just like Jews vs Gentiles, where intermarrying with non-covenant people was hugely forbidden, and cut whole groups of people off from the covenants of the Law of Moses (Samaritans)” Are you suggesting that people were disqualified based on their skin tone? Not by rejecting god and his commands? Furthermore, why is Egyptian so important to Book of Mormon when it’s about the revelation of Jesus to native Americans peoples. It would seem contradictory to me believe in JS’s books relating the parallels to Egyptian tradition and temple ceremony when it should have a basis on Hebrew temple traditions?

thus turning their skin "kcalb" and being cut off from the Law of Moses. Just like Jews vs Gentiles, where intermarrying with non-covenant people was hugely forbidden, and cut whole groups of people off from the covenants of the Law of Moses (Samaritans)” Are you suggesting that people were disqualified based on their skin tone? Not by rejecting god and his commands? Furthermore, why is Egyptian so important to Book of Mormon when it’s about the revelation of Jesus to native Americans peoples. It would seem contradictory to me believe in JS’s books relating the parallels to Egyptian tradition and temple ceremony when it should have a basis on Hebrew temple traditions?

It's very obvious from the video that they were reading a PDF. Googling the title takes you to bmslr (Book of Mormon Scientific and Linguistic Research) where you can read the 440 page PDF for free.

You can Google search it. I've read through it. It is intense reading.

You can download his pdf. He gives it out for free. It's really a deep dive but definitely fascinating

The glyphs and such are represented in his book which you can find for free on his website. Some of them are also shown in his (long) interview on Mormonism with the Murph.

All the accounts say he dictated it loud with no notes or inscriptions of any kind in front of him. He read what he saw.

@@anthonyrippa686 the words in the scriptures tell us otherwise (in my opinion). Do you really believe Joseph saw the word adieu? No, he translated and felt that was the best word for the phrase he translated. There was a study it out in his mind and had to work at it. The Book of Mormon is written in old English. This is a choice that Joseph made when translating. Joseph never used the word dictated. Others did but he didn’t. To me the evidence supports a true translation. Working out words and phrases that fit what Joseph may have been seeing and reading.

@TheJanesaw but all the accounts say he dictated words once and those were written down. No books, paper, thinking things through, not even looking at the plates. He looked through the stones and the words appeared in English.

@@anthonyrippa686 not all of the accounts say he didn’t use the plates. All accounts from Joseph and Oliver say he did use the plates. Keep in mind that Oliver didn’t come onto the scene until after the 116 pages were lost. A lot of scholars claim Joseph used the plates for the 116 pages and then transitioned to the seer stone alone. Oliver never says this. He and Joseph were very consistent. The statements of him not using plates are from others. The question is who is more reliable. I trust more in the statements of Joseph over any others. Unfortunately many Church historians weigh the 3rd party accounts more than the statements by the prophet himself. Which I believe is a mistake. I know what others claim he did but i believe they were mistaken or lying. To me it’s clear that Joseph actually translated, he actually learned how to read the plates. In a miraculous fashion. But learned nonetheless.

Yeah… donate a couple thousand dollars so I can afford an editor and a brand new system.

​@WARDRADIO what about those church billions you keep bragging about? 😂 we know you're funded 😉

​@@thomasandsheilarock5454hilarious this Mormon minion asking you for money !!! Just shows the hypocrisy of These Midnight Morons.

​@@thomasandsheilarock5454 these morons have the gall to ask you for money!!!

​​@@thomasandsheilarock5454 their Mormon hypocrisy is hilarious!!!

He is actually referred to in the reformed Egyptian in the Caractors Document as "the Son" and at his birth with the adjectives "First", "Most High" with a royal name suffix indicator. All that info is in the book.

Agreed 👍💯 lol

The way you choose to live is filth.

Sounds like hatred to me. Nephi wasn't perfect. He even states as much and most of us would probably feel the same way to people who were once family who kept trying to kill us.

When Lehi arrived on the Nile River he described something called the "fountain of righteousness". Later when the angel tells Nephi his seed will be destroyed on the "SAME" river (1 Nephi 12:16), then the fountain becomes filthy. The destruction of the Nephites in Egypt, on the Nile, is prophesized in Jeremiah 44. Lehi was commanded to follow the Nile River to the Garden of Eden. This is the source of the Nile in Ethiopia. Jews have been migrating to Ethiopia since at least King Solomon. Helaman 3 describes a migration back North to Egypt. The "treeless" land where they build with "cement" and "ship" timber is clearly Egypt to the North of Ethiopia. Helaman 3:6 attempts to rebut the concept of "Desolation". Egypt being a "Desolation" is clearly defined in Jeremiah 44 so the Nephites knew they needed to explain why on Earth the would consider migrating back to "Desolation" in Egypt. This, of course, lead to their destruction as prophesized by the angel in 1 Nephi 12 and Jeremiah 44. This all took place in Egypt and the Nephites were Ethiopian Jews. Jews that stayed in Ethiopia survived until they migrated back to Israel after WWII.

@@redfightblue Color me critical, but I find that hard to believe.

Yes. And UFOs from a rainbow on Mars. They would've ate him. But before that would happen he would have to wait 850 years... So he'd be close to 900 years old when he met Mayans

Probably he didn't. The reformed Egyptian was developed much later. That was an incorrect statement by Cardon and I neglected to correct it. Sorry

I dealt with his work Wade Brown's research in my Caractors book. What he is trying to do is actually not chiasmus. It is glyph parallelism or mirroring, which I show many. Chiasms are literary elements. For example, Madam I'm Adam is not a chiasm, it is mirroring of the letters. I did not find any chiasms in the translation, but none would be expected, as it looks to be part of the Mosiah preface (I don't know of any of the BOM prefaces that have chiasms) and a summary of the prophetic calendar.

Mi'hmac is a recent language (1600's) that primarily consists of glyphs created by a French Catholic missionary priest. There is no correlation between reformed Egyptian and Mi'hmac. Someone attempted to compare the Caractors Document and Mi'hmac and claimed to have found a dozen similar glyphs. However, Egyptian has 2000 plus glyphs, Mi'hmac has 2700. Linguistics indicate that 5 percent of a given language has random correlations with an unrelated language. So one might expect 135 glyphs to randomly correlate. The other problem is that of the 12 or so glyphs that the individual identified, the Mi'hmac meanings do not match what the supposed Egyptian glyph matches mean in Egyptian.

@@jerrygrover8992Isn’t it disputed whether he created the characters or not. At least from what I’ve read, him using Egyptian doesn’t make sense since Egyptian wasn’t deciphered till the 1820s? Anyways, language is your wheel house I’m just here to learn and question. Another great episode by the way!

@@jerrygrover8992There is a comparison between the script the Church has and the old Mic Mac script dated Sept. 6, 2010 by Wayne May on You Tube. It's titled "The Written Language of the Mic Mac Indians" It predates the arrival of Europeans. My error in using the word "Modern".

There are references to an older form of Mic-Mak that predates the arrival of Europeans. Go to a Sept. 6, 2010 video by Wayne May who has posted a video that shows a comparison of the Characters the Church now has, and the old Mic-Mak characters. @@jerrygrover8992

on ebay

In the trash

Actually Nephi wrote in Egyptian, not reformed Egyptian, which was developed through time much later.

I've always felt bad for Nephi and that story makes me feel better about my own family dynamic. lol!

I now understand, Jerry, why you assume that the reformed Egyptian came later in the record. Because for a language to become reformed it takes time. However, Nephi seems to indicate that it was already reformed when he wrote his record. For he clearly stated his language was a combination of Hebrew and Egyptian. He didn’t call it “Reformed Egyptian” like Mormon did. But he also didn’t state that “we spoke two languages, Hebrew and Egyptian”. He seems to state that his language was a mix of both. Remember, the Jews lived among and in close proximity to the Egyptians for many hundreds of years- at least 400 in captivity and also while Joseph was #2 to Pharaoh. That was plenty of time to have already altered the Egyptian. 2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. Ultimately, it really doesn’t matter. Anyway, it just concerns me when people state as a fact what is actually just a theory.

Well, it says he wrote it in the language of the Egyptians with the learning of the Jews. I don't think he text there requires that the script itself is a mix of Hebrew and Egyptian although I can see how some might interpret it that way. It may have just been in Egyptian incorporating Jewish names, religion, idioms, chiasms, etc.@@MormonWinessesofJesusChrist

@@jerrygrover8992 I agree. The text leaves some ambiguity. However I believe there is reason for the ambiguity. If at the time Lehi’s family spoke two seperate and distinct languages, all he might have said is that they speak two languages- Egyptian and Hebrew. But he seems to imply they were a mix- otherwise why would he word it that way? The ambiguity, it seems to me, means something. What it seems like it doesn’t mean is that they simply speak two different languages. It seems to imply it is a mix, which could be reformed Egyptian even though Nephi didn’t use that description. My point is that I don’t think anyone can say unequivocally - especially someone who is set up as an authority by default as scholars are in our church culture (whether or not that is a good thing)- that they spoke pure Egyptian in Nephi’s day. It seems to me that at least a half a millennia is enough time for the Jews to develop a new dialect of Egyptian. My goodness, just look at how our language in this nation has changed in just 200 years….

Hey that might be fun. Cardon would probably want to chaperone since he is the matchmaker.

@@jerrygrover8992 Bro Cardon absolutely should chaperone. I love the way he treats his wife on air so she should chaperone Bro Cardon and ourselves. ; )

End of 1984

@@jerrygrover8992 That's cool. But, I'm afraid it's a little before my time. I've been in Taichung since 99. The show you were on, was it SUPER SUNDAY?

Likely that their parents didn't name them this, assigned after the fact, just like Jacob (which means Trickster). Or perhaps they named them something close to that and it was modified into a not so flattering name.

Joseph said it had been taken from him by the same Angel who gave it to him for reasons best known to the lord. However , you are not left in darkness. You have physical proof that the Gold plates existed; the Book of Mormon and the witnesses of people who actually saw the Gold plates and never denied their testimony even till their deaths.

Honestly the Church doesn't care about any of this stuff as far as I can tell. They only have recently prepared "essays" about academic topics buried on their website. But who knows, I am an independent researcher, and purposefully keep my research independent of any Church "approvals", kind of like Royal Skousen does.

They won’t because this is all made up horseshit and it’ll make them look dumber than they already do.

This is because the church knows that he BoM is not supported by science. They stopped that narrative decades ago. DNA debunks the notion that native Americans descend from Middle Eastern Jews.

Mi'hmac is a recent language (1600's) that primarily consists of glyphs created by a French Catholic missionary priest. There is no correlation between reformed Egyptian and Mi'hmac. Someone attempted to compare the Caractors Document and Mi'hmac and claimed to have found a dozen similar glyphs. However, Egyptian has 2000 plus glyphs, Mi'hmac has 2700. Linguistics indicate that 5 percent of a given language has random correlations with an unrelated language. So one might expect 135 glyphs to randomly correlate. The other problem is that of the 12 or so glyphs that the individual identified, the Mi'hmac meanings do not match what the supposed Egyptian glyph matches mean in Egyptian.

The dogma that the Jesuits created the characters seem to contradict the Jesuit eyewitness accounts: "n 1652, Father Gabriel Druillettes, a Jesuit missionary to the Abenaki, reports seeing the Mi'kmaq use ideograms to record lessons in the "Jesuit Relations" of that year: 'Some of them wrote out their lessons in their own manner. They made use of a small piece of charcoal instead of a pen, and a piece of bark instead of paper. Their characters are novel, and so individual that one could not know or understand the writing of the other; that is to say, that they made use of certain marks according to their own ideas as of a local memory to preserve the points and the articles and the maxims which they had remembered. They carried away this paper with them to study in the repose of the night.' In 1677 Father Chrétien Le Clercq, a Franciscan Récollet, made note in his journals of observing Mi'kmaq children taking notes using charcoal and birch bark as he was teaching them prayers. Seeing this as an opportunity for more effective teaching, Father Le Clercq, an accomplished linguist, learned the ideogrammatic system, and expanded it with Mi'kmaw-esque symbols to express Judeo-Christian concepts that had no representation in the Mi'kmaw symbology." (Muiniskw dot com)

"In 1652, Father Gabriel Druillettes, a Jesuit missionary to the Abenaki, reports seeing the Mi'kmaq use ideograms to record lessons in the "Jesuit Relations" of that year: 'Some of them wrote out their lessons in their own manner. They made use of a small piece of charcoal instead of a pen, and a piece of bark instead of paper. Their characters are novel, and so individual that one could not know or understand the writing of the other; that is to say, that they made use of certain marks according to their own ideas as of a local memory to preserve the points and the articles and the maxims which they had remembered. They carried away this paper with them to study in the repose of the night.' In 1677 Father Chrétien Le Clercq, a Franciscan Récollet, made note in his journals of observing Mi'kmaq children taking notes using charcoal and birch bark as he was teaching them prayers. Seeing this as an opportunity for more effective teaching, Father Le Clercq, an accomplished linguist, learned the ideogrammatic system, and expanded it with Mi'kmaw-esque symbols to express Judeo-Christian concepts that had no representation in the Mi'kmaw symbology."

In 1652, Father Gabriel Druillettes, a Jesuit missionary to the Abenaki, reports seeing the Mi'kmaq use ideograms to record lessons in the "Jesuit Relations" of that year: "Some of them wrote out their lessons in their own manner. They made use of a small piece of charcoal instead of a pen, and a piece of bark instead of paper. Their characters are novel, and so individual that one could not know or understand the writing of the other; that is to say, that they made use of certain marks according to their own ideas as of a local memory to preserve the points and the articles and the maxims which they had remembered. They carried away this paper with them to study in the repose of the night." In 1677 Father Chrétien Le Clercq, a Franciscan Récollet, made note in his journals of observing Mi'kmaq children taking notes using charcoal and birch bark as he was teaching them prayers. Seeing this as an opportunity for more effective teaching, Father Le Clercq, an accomplished linguist, learned the ideogrammatic system, and expanded it with Mi'kmaw-esque symbols to express Judeo-Christian concepts that had no representation in the Mi'kmaw symbology.

@@jerrygrover8992 I appreciate your response. I had only heard about possible correlation. Thanks for being so quick to respond and enlighten us.

It was in David Whitmer's possession when he died, not during the translation. The handwriting is that of John Whitmer, so likely later given to David Whitmer. One likely pathway was when Oliver Cowdery died, David Whitmer inherited all of his papers.

But because John Whitmer and Oliver came into the picture after the loss of the 116 pages doesn't it make this translation problematic? I like the idea of a summary and the fact that all the numbers work is amazing. @@jerrygrover8992

They still had the plates they just didn't have the manuscript

It would not have been Nephi, he wrote in Egyptian. I should have corrected that when it was mentioned.

Remembering the name describes the individual the best Hebrew fit for him is “maron” which means rebellion. In constructed Sumerian the best fit is a name constructed some or all of these roots: mar meaning “louse, worm, parasite; mu meaning “name”, ar meaning “ruin”; ara meaning “an official”; ur meaning “to confine, imprison”; and rah-a-na meaning “to beat to kill, to break, crush.

Well, I don’t think me being confident about it makes too much difference as to whether it is correct. I recommend that people read the book and translation and the standard scientific and linguistic academic citations and resources. That is not the kind of work that Wayne May does.

@@jerrygrover8992 I don’t have much of a left to stand on to be honest. I just like watching the different theories.

Well, stay tuned for more content on Ward Radio, there should be some more coming@@dcarts5616

It clearly started in Meso America/Land of Nephi, then spread to the “Land Northward”

@@WordsofMormonthat doesn’t mean no group went south.

@@BillyFarris some May have gone back south, in fact we read of great traffic between the North and South, but in my opinion it was the Jaredites who landed in the North and the Lehites/Mulekites landed in the South

Yeah, Jerry takes a few creative liberties to assert that meso is BoM land. There are a hundred ways such an efficient writing system could have traveled that far South. Whereas the Lamanites were determined to hunt down and eradicate all the Nephite writings (so naturally they wouldn't be found where the BoM occurred), the meso people appear to have continued using this writing system. I take that as evidence that it didn't occur down there. Along with the word of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Ingenious way to translate the document though.

@@cognitiveresonance339 Actually this guy is not creative. He’s a purely analytical guy. He has no interest in speculation. He said so himself. He just looks at the facts

Don’t know for sure but probably after the fact. The Egyptian glyphs are clearly after the fact. It is possible that the negative meaning of Laman may be a pun which might accommodate Laman as his actual phonetic name.

Sorry, I don’t imbibe!

lmao!

This entire video has already been debunked by Dan mclellan HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

@@frazer9 where? Are you talking about the Saudi plates?

Even if it was all true the God of Mormonism is unworthy of worship.

The translation was reviewed by an LDS Egyptologist with advanced qualifications by agreed blind review. You might want to read the book as his statement is in the introduction and states, "I found the Egyptian identified was hieratic with a small amount of Demotic. The meanings associated with the glyphs are correct in the sense that the glyph meanings are all found in standard acceptable academic Egyptian sources." The translation and supporting book has been out since 2015, and has been downloaded by a variety of non-LDS professors of Egyptian primarily in the Middle East and Europe. So far I am unaware of any negative review of the translation or the source material. Unlike most books, this has been available for free on the internet to read or download. That is the point it is at. I welcome any and all to read or review the material, as long as I am allowed to respond in the same venue that would be great.

@@jerrygrover8992 That is almost a decade, with no substantive review written by someone who actually understands ancient Egyptian. In scholarship, we normally expect verification of claims made by independent review. That is crucial.

I bet John Gee would disagree with this translation

@@BobSmith-lb9nc Better yet, let us see some reviews by secular academics with Egyptology specializations that don't first filter all findings through "faith spectacles." Gee & Muhlestein should be excluded as reputable reviewers. If only Ritner could be resurrected and do some work on this. Great that the books are free- applaud Mr. Grover on that on that. Telling, though, that the non-LDS scholars have not even bothered to address it, and that none of this work is published in any secular refereed scholarly journals. @jerrygrover8992 , have you submitted this work to any relevant secular scholarly journals? If so, feedback? Why not accepted for publication? Why, if the work is solid, is the LDS Church not jumping all over this - like "The Greatness of the Evidence- A Marvelous Work" stuff on Book of Mormon Central?

@@MAJdrdtucker There have been a number of off-the-wall proposals made over the years, all without success, and all by people who cannot read Egyptian. Book of Mormon Central has a PhD Egyptologist on staff who would certainly know if a decipherment had been successful. And there are at least four more Egyptologists in Utah who would know. Silence is golden.

It was for the social media of ancient Teotihuacan.

That is exactly the conclusion as spelled out in my last book on the Chronology of the BOM. Some Bible scholars also agree with a Wednesday crucifixion.

Jesus/Yeshua, rose Monday morning because he rose on the morning of the third day and the Hebrew calendar is lunar, not like ours. I should clarify what we call Monday morning, is Sunday morning by the Hebrew calendar. Friday night at sundown is the first night and beginning of the first day and second day starts Saturday evening at sundown and the third day starts Sunday evening at Sundown and Jesus rose the MORNING of the third day. The only controversy is we celebrate the resurrection a day early. Sunrise services should be held on Monday mornings since our days start at midnight and the Hebrew day starts about six hours earlier.

It was Friday evening, all day Saturday & Sunday morning = spanning 3 days, not three 24 hour periods. Similar to the sign of his birth had actually only one night that stayed light as if it was day time thus = three 12 hour periods of light or three daytimes.

​@@longlifeprinters9 except in the NT Jesus explicitly says 3 days and 3 nights, which very much disagrees with the rest of the narrative.

How so?

Then read the 440 page free PDF where he does a break down. It’s hard to shrink that to 30 minutes.

How so… and how would you have all people be smart enough to catch it? 😂

I did. He constantly makes leaps in logic. You could use his methods to get the text to say basically whatever you want. It's just vague lines and dots etc. To be clear, I'm a believing member. I believe the Caractors document is authentic. I just don't think it's possible to translate to the degree that this guy thinks he's done. He's making a LOT of assumptions that color his entire translation.

@@robbhays8077you said he’s making a lot of assumptions. Can you state three specific assumptions he’s making please?

Actually Nephi did not write in the reformed Egyptian so it is doubtful it was written that way at that point in time.

Blind reviewers of the book did, check the first part of the book.

This is a very honest question, it seems like it would be able to be corroborated somehow

@@kurttlethorupOthers have looked at it and contacted me that they agree, but so far as I know there has been nothing published. Partially because it is a translation instead of research I think, so it is basically verified by the dictionaries used.

@jerrygrover8992 it definately seems like something that gets peer reviewed and published, i will never have the knowledge but by those who do!

Experts in Maya, Egyptian, and Sumerian all with positive feedback of the translation. It has been out for 8 years with 150,000 downloads many to professors of Egyptian. One thing this is a translation, not the theory of relativity. Anyone can check the translation, the book actually cuts and pastes from the various translation resources. I have done everything I can do to get it out there. I'm satisfied it has been properly reviewed and disseminated. You might want to read it yourself and see what you think.@@kurttlethorup

Well, there is one example, the cylinder seal discovered during the excavation of Chiapa de Corzo.

THAT is simply someone WANTING something to be related to something else. There is no clear cut, carbon copy similarity. @@jerrygrover8992

@@jerrygrover8992 Stop providing gossip. Please cite the scholarly source. Why do no reputable scholars support any of the mormon assertions about BOM historicity?

Pretty simple, Plenty of Mormon scholars do. If they are non Mormon and did they would become Mormon. I’m sure you understand that simple concept. It is not rocket science.

@@jerrygrover8992 So faith causes you to see “Reformed Egyptian”??

Because you can find them also in hieratic Egyptian and Demotic Egyptian. With 2000 glyphs of course some are bound to look similar to English letters. Plus the fact that many of the English letters were originally ultimately derived from Egyptian. So not only is it not surprising, it would be surprising if you DIDN’T find what looks like English letters

The plate count in the stack was 300-600. The sealed portion was described with different proportions, max 2/3 of the stack

@@jerrygrover8992 very cool, what is the source for that information?

The show only goes to 35:49. Where did you get this info? Also, I'm at 21:53 and at 19 minutes he said nothing about 30 end time events in scripture notes. Do you have this mixed up with a Avraham Gileadi video???

@@MommaCrissa i did oops lol thanks

Nephites are not the Maya. You need to study the Sorenson model better if you want to comment intelligently on the primary Mesoamerican model. The big cultural problem with the Heartland is not so much the Hopewell, but there are no Jaredites. Some refer to the Adena culture as Jaredites, but the Adena culture started in 500 BC, way too late for the Jaredites and long after the arrival of the Nephites

@Jerrygrover The adena or woodland people have mound sites around 1000 bc or even 2500 bc depending on which locations you visit. Ohio and Kentucky have websites on the woodland people also called the adena. If you are using Wikipedia as your source it says 500 bc.

@@shanandkyleSau I am not sure where you are getting your information. I am not using Wikipedia. I am using the standard academic archeological sources, including Ancient North America: The Archeology of a Continent by Brian M. Fagan. If you are looking at Kentucky information specifically, because this channel doesn't allow links to be posted, the Kentucky Archeological Survey has a nice online book dedicated to the Adena in Kentucky. Here is the link, you will have to replace the dots and remove the spaces from the slashes. heritage dot ky dot gov / Documents / Adena-Booklet.pdf As you can see the 500 BC start date for the Adena is correct according to Kentucky archeologists. The people making profit off of the Heartland model know what they are perpetrating with the Adena matching the Jaredite culture is false. But they continue to make up whatever they need to to keep their business going. Pretty sad.

Mostly cedar bark with a chipotle twist.

Uuuhhhh... don't tell this guy about Hieratic or Demotic Egyptian.... XD

Go read the PDF. It was reviewed by independent sources who state the Jerry makes reasonable links to egyptian, mesoamerican, and sumerian language structures: ""This updated book was reviewed by an expert with advanced qualifications in the ancient Egyptian language and script with the following comment: “I found the Egyptian identified was hieratic with a small amount of Demotic. The meanings associated with the glyphs are correct in the sense that the glyph meanings are all found in standard acceptable academic Egyptian sources.” The previous Caractors book was reviewed by an expert in Mayawith advanced degrees in Mesoamerican studies with the following comments: “…technically excellent linguistic approach” “Interpretations are cautions and generally reasonable.” xii Introduction “. . . identified some legitimate patterns (relating to the Maya calendar) that had escaped everyone’s notice.” Blind third party peer review of portions of this work relating to Sumerian was performed by Rubriq. Some comments from the third party peer review were: “The manuscript attempts a technically excellent linguistic approach to the origins of a religious text.” “Plenty of relevant data are presented, comparisons are clear, interpretations are cautious and generally reasonable.”"" Could still be off the mark, but can't be dismissed as nothing.

I’m sorry you believe in the Flat Earth.

Might want to read the book before you come to that conclusion. Usually best not to rush to a conclusion before looking at all the info.

@@jerrygrover8992 Meso America is not the land of the Jaredites, Nephites and the Lamanites. North America is the place. Mayan are a different line of people. I don't need to read the book. I read the Book of Mormon D&C and the Bible along with the Pearl of Great Price. I believe the revelations and what they contain. I don't believe nor follow in that which is contrary to the revelations of God. 🙏🏽

@@rock5948 My Brother in Christ, you may have missed the part where he explained that he could translate the passage because the Book of Mormon told him what to expect. He is not claiming that he could have translated the gold plates without the aid of God or the means provided to the Prophet. He is instead saying that given A- the context provided by the English translation of the Book of Mormon and restoration, B-knowledge of ancient languages it is possible to make an informed translation of the characters Brother Joseph had copied specifically for the purpose of learning. This is not new scripture, just new context.

​​@@rock5948Mesoamerica is the land of the Book of Mormon bud. There is a lot more evidence of the Book of Mormon down there than in the US. The Heartland model is garbage. Helamen 3:3 says they went northward, Helaman 3:6-7 and Helamen 3:10 says that there was no timber so they built houses using cement. The only place in North America that has that kind of geography and evidence of cement housing being used anciently is Arizona and Texas, mind you the Book of Mormon says all this is going on North of the main body of Nephites or where the story has been taking place. There are multiple other places that say they spread across the land, which is why you see evidence of some Nephite culture so far north. So while cultural similarities with Ancient Natives Americans in the USA are still evidence of the Book of Mormon, that doesn't necessitate that the US is where the Book of Mormon took place. Alma talks of a guy, Hagoth, building ships and sailing from the west sea and coming back once and then these people were never being heard from again. The heartland model has Lake Michigan being the west sea talked about. Lake Michigan isn't that big and can be traveled around so it does create a weird issue of why they were never heard from again, especially because this is Mormon writing this centuries later. And the fact that multiple Prophets have said Polynesians are descendants of Hagoths group, you can't travel from Lake Michigan to the Pacific by water going west. It also makes no sense for Nephi to go south and around Africa to end up in Louisiana. It makes a lot more sense that he went east and landed somewhere on the west coast of the Americas. The Hill Cumorah in New York is not the Hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon and was not called the Hill Cumorah until the mid-1830s, long after Joseph had retrieved the plates from the hill. There’s no evidence from the 1820s and 30s that Joseph Smith ever called this the Hill Cumorah. Oliver Cowdery was the one who started calling it “Hill Cumorah” and it caught on and became the name the Saints culturally assigned to the hill. The first time Joseph Smith calls it Cumorah, which is recorded in Doctrine and Covenants section 128, is after the membership had already started calling it by that name, and Latter-day Saints have been calling it Cumorah ever since. This idea came from Mormon 6:6 which says “…I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord…” If you stop reading there, then you could say Joseph found the plates in this hill because Mormon said he buried them in the Hill Cumorah. However if you read the rest of the verse it says “…I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, *save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.”* In other words, Mormon buried all of the records he had in the hill Cumorah *except* the Book of Mormon record, which was later buried by Moroni. So the hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon is literally the place where Mormon or Moroni says the golden plates *are not* buried. It also doesn’t match what the Book of Mormon says geographically. Mormon says that they go north past the narrow neck of land and that the Lamanites gave them land north of the narrow neck of land (Mormon 2:3, 20, 29), later he mentions Cumorah in Mormon 6. This very clearly identifies Cumorah to be above the narrow neck of land. The Hill Cumorah in Palmyra New York is directly east of Buffalo, like not even northeast but almost perfectly east of it. And would be situated in the land southward. Those 2 details disqualify the hill in New York to be the same one that is talked about in the Book of Mormon. There is also a weird thing here where Moroni wandered around for ~36 years just for him to go all the way back when he could have just hidden them there before he left (Mormon says it was 384 AD in Mormon 6:5 and Moroni says the year is 400 AD in Mormon 8:6, later says another it is now 420 AD in Moroni 10:1 before he buries the plates). Before you try it, there is also a glaring issue with you using quotes by past leaders. Every single one of them had a hemispheric model of the Book of Mormon not Heartland model of the Book of Mormon. Meaning that while they did think the Hill Cumorah was in New York, they also thought that the narrow neck of land was Panama not Buffalo New York. Kinda dishonest to use their quotes to try and prove a theory that they wouldn’t have believed in.

I know 400 pages of methodical consistent analysis is a lot, but read his revised translation and method. I am THRILLED to take my kids to the Church History Museum soon to see the Caractors document, along with an exceedingly helpful decipherment from demotic and hieratic. Read da book!