I'm sorry so many unthinkingly threw spoilers your way. I re-read my comment just to triple check myself. I don't think I spoiled anything but I did mention themes. I really apologize if that threw you off too. 😌

It speaks a lot to how badly people have conflated Game of Thrones with the entire book series (since it is the name of the entire show series). Game of thrones is just book 1! She didn’t read the whole series!!

Jon snow dies in the 5th book

@@bethfinne3260trust me I’m not talking themes 🤣🤣 I’m talking straight up spoilers!

@@Bookborn lol! I know but still I felt like I inadvertently joined the pile on😆 I highly recommend A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms stories when you need ASOIAF to be a little less dark. Fun romp compared to the others.

Oh I didn't know he had tv experience before adapating GoT! Makes sense!

@@Bookborn Yes, they literally lifted entire scenes of dialogue from the book and didn't need to adapt them. That is why the last 2 seasons were terrible because George hadn't finished the last book yet and the script writers tried and failed to fill in.

​​​@@ryan7864They didn't follow A Dance with Dragons too closely tho. But of course that book would have had material for about three seasons if they did.

​@@ryan7864 Well, the HBO show gets worse with season 5, asoiaf had enough stories for 7 seasons but they made 4 seasons with the first 3 books and changed nearly everything from book 4 and 5 and made just one season with those 2 books...

@@karimabidi8312 I mean... partly correct, partly wildly incorrect. They had George's roundabout outline for the series. So, they didn't change the plot much. They just filled in story stuff he hasn't written yet. And people who think the overall outcome will be wildly different in the books... well, they haven't been paying attention to the books already released. That will be the overall outcome.

Yeah, that's never been a concern of mine as far as reading! It's always a little sad when things you love aren't finished, but I don't think it's the end of the world.

Given the author’s age and lack of interest, I don’t think the books will never get finished.

​@@tialin..9312the fanfiction The North Remembers ends it rather well

George RR Martin is a horny old man

Yeah , I don't regret reading these they were great. If he never finishes them what ever... I'll be sort of sad. It honestly just makes me think of Lucans Civil war where the author was made to commit suicide by Nero before he could finish it... The book/epic poem was still amazingly written up to the point he got and is historically significant in so many ways that have impacted other works that have come after.

There's pretty much nothing better than someone reading one of your favorite books and also saying "I like it"

There is always another secret 😉

The Trifecta of best humorous characters in Fantasy: Glotka, Matrim Cauthon & Tyrion Lannister!! Their POV’s were the most anticipated chapters in each series!

Was that you I saw on reddit with the post?!

@@Griffnix I dont think I made a post about it, but I have commented on someone else's post about it I think.

Heh, I kept waiting for him to be saved. That's how 99.99999 percent of fantasy books would go. Main character (seemingly) is about to get executed. He'll be saved at the last second! Right? Right!?!?!?! Then his daughter sees his head chopped off. I had no words at the time. I read the book when it came out, so was never spoiled, as some would likely have been these days.

It took me like two full days to fully process that it happened even though I had multiple people confirm to me that it had indeed happened 🤣

Yup, it was super shocking. That was when I knew that this series was DIFFERENT and could be something great. It was devastating but the shocking end of season 1 made the show feel like something fresh and new compared to the other Hollywood stuff at the time which felt stale and recycled.

This is the same thing I did - except the walk on the beach and I saw season one for the first time when season 4 or 5 was about to come out.

I'm one of the few, I guess, who had read what happened before Ned got killed, and somehow it still kind of surprised me when I watched it! I was wondering "will they or won't they?" through the entire lead up, and I knew that they were doing (at least the first season of) the series right because they didn't back off from beheading Ned. Things started going downhill about 3 seasons later.

Official request for Lost in Westeros podcast

I don't mind Tyrion's backstory in isolation, tbh, because I can tell that marriage thing will probably come up a lot. I think it was the sum total of "something feels off in how often this is mentioned". But also, Tyrion was my favorite so I'm ready and willing to not care about it🤣

@@Bookborn it’s beautifully woven into his character as you go and yes he is the best!

It was very exaggerated and exploitative, I thin G RR Martin often uses SA as a stock way of shocking people, in this instance, its used as a method for creating sympathy for tyrion rather than the girl in question which is problematic and lacking respect imo.

@@thefantasynuttworkyeah Jimmy and I also think Daenerys trauma also plays a huge role in her storyline even more considering how… you know season 8, episode 6.

The only magic left was the dragons, white walkers(or as they are known in the book, the others) and Bran’s warging. The dragons were kept because they looked cool, the white walkers were used as elaborate hype creators while not meaning anything and the Bran stuff was only around because it couldn’t just be ignored

And the fact so many people think Targaryens are fireproof. Dany isn’t even fireproof. One time magical event.

@@rhaenyratargaryen1stofhern55 yep, Martin even said dany only was fireproof then because of various things, mostly the fact that she literally sacraficed a dude, i would imagine a human sacrafice has enough power involved to protect you from mere flame for a time lol

Sacrificed a woman but whatever@@XiaoYueMao

It's been shown that dragons in some way basically dictate the magic in the series. Essos still has a lot of magic especially in the far east as there are plenty of dragons left.@@Isuream6331

I did actually think Dany might be an unreliable narrator - but the problem is without another person to challenge her thoughts, it’s hard to tell where the story actually lies. Here’s the thing: I got her storyline. I don’t think it’s crazy at all that she’s been married off at 13. But there are still scenes that rub me the wrong way, unreliable narrator or not, because it’s words used to describe Dany, and not her inner thoughts, if that makes sense.

@@Bookborn yeah that's fair. The way Dany's body is described sexually makes me very uncomfortable too.

Horribly bad take tbh. Danny doesn't see Drogo as an abuser. It has nothing to do with her brother or being saved by Drogo. Danny's scene with Drogo is just poorly written. She goes from being naive and shy to being a very confident nymph. She takes his hand and guides it to her privates. She is just a 12 year old who falls for the older big bad boy dude. It's not some "I'm grateful" thing. The scene would have been uncomfortable regardless. As someone that lost his virginity at a very early age and knew girls that age that were very promiscuous., it's not like I'm aware that kids can be like that. But Danny was written poorly in that scene or should have given hints that she liked Drogo at least the looks of him before that scene. Instead she was super nervous and naive and then suddenly she's confident and really into it. It didn't help that I have 2 much younger sisters that were around Danny's age when I read that. And since I practically raised my lil sisters and saw them as babies it made me even more uncomfortable, then thinking back at my own youth, the pressure to lose your virginity in HS etc etc. It made me feel disgusted and quite upset that my little sisters probably had that same pressure on their shoulders. And then I remembered trying to set up this after school activity and going to a meeting with this 26 year old dude who worked for the municipality. And I brought a girl friend of mine with me, she was a very attractive young girl, 15 years old and the dude was eye fkning her the entire time making suggestive comments making her super uncomfortable. Which made me even more upset since I have no doubt my sisters will face the same type of creeps.

@@BookbornI know you’re no longer reading comments so will probably never see this. But one thing you have to keep in mind with Martin is that the “third person narrator” in chapters is still the mind of the POV character. Think of that stuff still as Dany’s POV and not a narrator. Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve read AGOT, so I might be forgetting some things. But the whole “like a child” thing to me still makes sense within Dany’s POV. I totally understand if it still makes you feel icky. And to some extent, that’s the point. However, just wanted to clear that up as I’ve seen some people not understand that in other reviews of ASOIAF and his other books.

I don't think it's impossible that Dany actually fell in love with Drogo in the end. And Drogo with her. Maybe there's Stockholm syndrome to a degree but it's not a leap in my eyes. It's just someone in a crappy situation learning how to make the best of it and eventually coming to love it. It sucks I know and our culture nowadays definitely doesn't like this kind of thing but yeah I think Martin hit on some historic truths and brought them into his fantasy realm.

Same, she's my favourite POV character. Her thoughts are so insightful, and helps a lot with the worldbuilding. She does not deserve all the hate she gets :(

Yeah I think people are confusing what I said as thinking she’s a perfect mom. Obviously I HATE how she treats Jon! But I loved how realistic her portrayal is and she’s just so well written!

​@Bookborn do you know who Lady Stoneheart is yet?

​@@jerryrobb1434lol delete this

I love her scenes too, she's clever but also flawed but she's also able to improvise and it makes her perspectives so fun

Best comment. Completely agreed

Same ❤

The whole saga, even if not complete, it's an amazing work, but the prologues... those are where imo Martin is at his best

Yes start reading i assure you wont regreat it.

It would be absolutely devastating if you go to your grave having no idea how great 'A Storm of Swords', 'A Feast For Crows', and 'A Dance With Dragons' are.

AFFC is a rough read. ACOK and ASOS were fantastic. Took me several years to finish ADWD

The book ending will be different from the show. This is known.

I need to start reading books I’ve sworn off more, it’s been fun how many people this has made happy 🤣

Oooh I hope you think the same as I did! Have you read First Law? because I found it much less graphic than that.

I haven’t! I’ve been hesitant to try grimdark books in general, so if Game of Thrones goes well, I will have a whole bunch of books to add to my TBR. 😅

If it’s less graphic than First Law maybe I’ll try it. I loved everything else I read by GRRM especially his Sci Fi short stories and Armageddon Rock.

@@Florfilm _The Armageddon Rag,_ I think?

Read it bro. It's amazing! I also avoided it for over a decade and just started reading the series on May 20th this year. I just finished Clash of Kings (book 2) last night and it was even better than book 1, extremely engaging and addicting, I just kept wanting to flip to the next page. Now I started book 3 (Storm of Swords) tonight and went 42 pages in and WOW! Stuff just keeps getting more and more interesting and I can tell this is where the books start to be a little more different from the TV show. The book(Storm of Swords) is 1128 pages long! So I'll have plenty of reading even at my fast pace. The books are filled with detail too, LOTS of subtle hints, foreshadowing, little hidden details that mean something and will have you flipping back pages to find what it's referencing, lots of Lovecraft references and ancient mythology or folk lore references etc. I could reread the books 10 times over and find new stuff that I missed. I'm always stopping while reading and trying to "connect the dots" where I can. If you want a physical copy of the books, look on Amazon - the best way to go is the Leather bound cloth book set for 50$.(not real leather but feels real and awesome! :)) Super high quality and is like a mix between hardcover and paperback, but high quality still with sewn/ stitched and glued pages on spine (I don't know book terms lol but these will not fall apart, and no wear on them so far except me accidentally bending some pages a couple times when I was drinking lol) the stitching on the spine even has the red and yellow checkered cloth lip like Lannisters banner colors. The leather bound cloth book set for 50$ are the same exact price as the mass market paperback - and all the paperback reviews on Amazon are terrible with missing pages messed up print and damaged with pages falling out etc. So if you want the physical books then the leather bound cloth book set is the best and cheapest way to go at 50$. Otherwise get the hardcover because the paperback sucks. Other wise if you're getting the e book, I'd recommend paying the extra 2$ for the illustrated version with artists beautiful paintings at the start of every chapter. I got the e book illustrated version for 7$ and the regular version was 5$. I just used the e book when traveling and would check for the artwork every chapter on my phone even when I was reading the physical book - when I started a new chapter I would open up my phone to check for the painting or artwork at the beginning of each chapter and then go back to my physical book. The illustrated e book was worth the 7$ just for that. 10/10 can recommend.

One hundred percent thisss.

Exactly what I thought. Dany loves Khal Drogo because she doesn't know what actual love is. Khal Drogo is a barbarian warlord with no redeeming features. But to Dany he is a hero because he has demonstrated less physical threat than her unstable brother. And that is all.

I agree. That's the thing with seeing through their perspectives. For her, Drogo was a "savior" who didn't smack or pinch her at every mistake she made. It was also compounded by her (a child's) thought of what love was (and Viserys being the one to be compared to). But for the reader, yeah, we see what it really is. And the more we read/reread, the more we see the truth behind the veil of a character's viewpoint.

@@blaubeer8039was the "as though she was a child" from dany's POV or another characters? Because if it was from Dany's then it underlines EXACTLY their point. She maybe doesnt view herself as a child but other people obviously stillview and treat her as one because they see the child from the outside while she doesnt consider herself as one

Okay, trying to see the opposite perspective. Apart from Dany's age or previous experiences, is there anything, why she should not love Drogo? He is a leader, he is strong, he cares for her. He accepts a lot of decisions by her (for herself, for her relationship, for the tribe). The Dothraki are savages, but so are most cultures (not all) in that world, and some more subtle. And even if they are savages, that is not a reason that Dany does not like it. Do we get any hint that Dany wants to get rid of Drogo? She wants to mold him, influence him, yes, but that happens in 90% of modern partnerships by both partners; and is one of the driving forces to improve or be better as a couple, or at least as improving one's own situation.

George makes his stories even darker than real life. Sure incest had occured throughout history, particularly among noble families, but the practice of marrying siblings to eachother is extremely rare, although it did occur sometimes in history. Marrying off of young girls did exist but those marriages usually went unconsumated until the girls were older because people knew that giving birth at a young age could seriously fuck people up physically. Game of thrones feels like George took the awfulness of the medieval era, and ramped it up to 11.

...realistic?

@bruh7862 I don't see how marrying brotherxsister is any worse than cousinxcousin, in westeros they also put off consummation a few years after puberty. In real life, Edmund Tudor consummated his marriage when his wife was 12. Don't romanticize early European society it's gross

@@alias9236 Incest is bad because you make sick babies.

@@bruh7862 someone has never heard about the Habsburgers

Yeah, Tyrion's character development gets pretty dark. But at least in the books he *has* character development!

I'll be interested to see how my opinion changes of him. I just find his position within his family fascinating and his POV is pretty hilarious lol

Is beans

Yeah, I think the historical component is why I understand Dany's storyline - like tbh, her terrible brother forcing her into this marriage 100% made sense; I just wish there were some scenes that were discussed differently or even just...used different words.

@@Bookborn I think I know what parts you're talking about, and if they're the same Dany bits as I'm thinking of, GRRM has since said that he regrets writing them the way that he did, as though he approved in any way of what was happening, and that there are some that he regrets writing at all. So good on him for growing as a person I guess?

lmao I realized that after I was like "ok I can't list EVERY character..."

I always think it’s super awkward when you’re a POV character in a morally complex fantasy setting and then your world gets broadcast into a parallel universe in fictionalized form and you are the one person who is nobody’s favorite POV character. Really hate that feeling 😢

@@stoneysept Poor Bran.

lol that's why I broke and told someone! It's a book that's BEGGING to be discussed

🥰

It's funny because I've read so much and seen so many shocking things and yet somehow It still just completely took me off guard/destroyed me 😂

​@@BookbornI love how he kills him too. He set up an interesting possibility if Ned hadn't died. He would have been sent to the wall, and one could see how the story would have progressed from there on. And his relationship with Jon in the wall with all the events to follow would have been amazing to read. George gives us a realm of exciting possibilities, only to cast them out with a wicked slash of a sword.

Same for me. I read the first book in the late 90s before I turned 30. One of my biggest book memories is reading Ned's execution, sitting there stunned for a second, quietly closing the book and going for a Long walk. I had some thinking to do, lol. Here I am now, age 54 twenty-some years later, stilled loving the story and anxiously awaiting what comes next.

@@Bookborn The book's reputation that you knew -- no character is safe -- was established precisely by this particular death. It sets the tone, in no uncertain terms. How cool that you got to experience it!

My inner dying inside 😭

will you be posting a review of book 2 after (when?) you read it? @@Bookborn

Oh I even just googled names to get a picture and I was TERRIFIED. I already know a decent amount so I am trying to be EXTRA careful I don't spoil anything else

It doesn’t feel possible 😭😭

So far Jimmy and Kyle think Feast for Crows will be my favorite

@@Bookborn based solely on your opinions that I've gleaned from watching your videos, I'd be inclined to agree with them

I mean, they're all great, but wasn't it book 3 and 4 that split the viewpoints, and happen roughly simultaneously? When they actually came out, I was irritated by that, because it meant you'd go an entire book without seeing your favorite character, depending upon who it was.

you liked feast? well I'm not judging, there were great chapters, but it was mostly dragged down by two PoV characters which were really boring to me in this book 😅 maybe I'll change my mind soon, since I am currently reading asoiaf for the second time but for now I'd say that Strorm and Dance are the best with Clash being a great setup book with the best written battle that I've ever read

@@Aldric524 it was 4 and 5 and yes, for this exact reason I'm glad that I've read them for the first time 2016. now I'm only frustrated that I have to wait another 6 hundered years before Winds releases

The Jaime one has been the funniest to everyone 🤣

@@Bookborn Somehow I keep seeing the actor from the series dressed in drag when you mentioned thinking Jaime was a girl. It's kind of a great image in my head.

@@Aldric524 Now that I think of it, he'd probably be really pretty in drag. He's got great eyes and cheekbones.

I guess I have to out you as an Evermore stan now

@@Bookborn The Battle of Evermore by Led Zeppelin? Guilty as charged

She needs to go play with her barbies too

@@readbykyle3082 Mother of Dragons Barbie and Devoted Brother Ken

no kidding for some its almost like they cant think for themselves

Yeah, I've heard pretty consistently that the early season of GoT are incredible and then it goes...off the rails a bit

I did something similar - I read Game of Thrones after I watched the first episode of the series, watched the rest of the first season knowing the big shock on its way, then read the rest of the series before S.2. So I got all the surprises from the books, but also noticed early on where the writers started straying in ways that weren't great.

This comment makes me so happy 🥹🥹 I hope you end up loving it!!

Thats so great to hear ❤.

I loved the last two books for the same reason. I kept expecting things from the show to happen that didn't happen (some did, some didn't). They were great.

Ok so I meant to talk about this in the video, but I will defend Sansa with my LIFE (idk if she needs it or not tho lol). I just feel like people are probably really annoying about Sansa and blame her for things that happen but she's ELEVEN like GIVE HER A BREAK. Anyway, I get why Sansa isn't as beloved, but I quite enjoyed her viewpoints because I thought it was a really interesting take on a very classic character. It was well done, imo.

I loved the books that haven't been adapted, too. And personally, I enjoyed Sansa's POV very much. Bran's not so much.

@@BookbornThat’s a great point about her age. I think everyone who started the books after seeing the show continue to view the characters as the age of the actors rather than the age of the characters in the books.

I also heard apparently Martin expected there to be time jumps and then it never sort of happened, so he wishes he would've started them older. Like you said, it's an easy thing to just ignore in your head and age everybody up a few years 😂

@@Bookborn It would be great if he came out with editions with just the ages changed, although, really, I think everything happens so fast over such a short period, he could have just had more time passing during the events, not exactly time jumps. One advantage the show had was that the child actors aged, so time had to pass. I always found it weird as a kid when the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew didn't age. I kept expecting them to go to college at some point.

well I know who wins the Game of Thrones in the show already lol but I'm trying not to let that affect me as I read lol!

Ok I will defend Sansa with my LIFE, TAKE IT BACK!!! lol and yeah, I was almost going to mention that there is a possibility that the things that annoyed me in this book will make sense later with more context. I can only judge it by this first book so far though!

@@Bookborn Defending Sansa 😳😂

@@Bookborn One of the things that impressed me more as I read GRRM was his ability to slip callbacks into the story that are so subtle I almost missed them... so finding one was a delight. A reward for attentive reading. It makes the story feel alive, because callbacks are just as often small "unimportant" things as they are big things.

I mean I REALLY dislike how she treats Jon, but it's just...so understandable, people today would act like that. I'm always a "don't blame children for what they can't help!" and so it really frustrates me and makes me angry at her as a character, but she's SO well written. You don't have to like a character's every decision to like them or understand them!!

@@BookbornI know you say you have no intentions on watching the show but I sure do hope you change your mind. There are some quality adds in the show that make it worth the watch. Namely there’s a conversation with Cateyln early in season 3 about Jon that is so heartbreaking and enlightening that it makes you feel her soulfulness and sadness for Jon all at once. It was brilliantly written and delivered.. Seasons 1-4 of the show is arguably the greatest run a show has ever had. The stumbles don’t really appear until season 5 as they run out of book material and Martin is no longer involved in the production.

Keep going i say! The 5th book is my favourite, takes a wildly different route to the show, you'll love it!!

3 rd book is widely considered as the greatest fantasy book ever written.

Exactly

Well the line that gave me chills is when catelyn confronts Tyrion about attempting to kill Bran and he says basically, "you know that story isn't true because I never bet against my family" and MIC DROP

I've never been afraid of skimming/skipping a scene where I get the gist and don't need the details lol

It's hard! And I think starting name of the wind is even harder than starting GoT, tbh, because of the behavior of Rothfuss in recent years 😬 Either way, I don't regret reading Kingkillers, and I don't think I'll regret reading GoT. I'll be sad for a little bit, I'm sure, but overall, even reading this first book was worth it.

@@Bookborn Heh, I'm totally not in the know of Rothfuss's behavior in recent years. The only stuff I was aware of is it seems he has permanent writer's block, or is too much of a perfectionist to finish his trilogy. I only follow a few authors beyond reading their books. Sanderson is one of the few I still follow that way. I realize I might be missing out of total gems on unfinished series, but there's so many books in the world! It's not like I can read them ALL anyway. I'd always have to pick and choose. Choosing (mostly) to read things that are done makes me a bit happier.

You might be waiting a long time 🥲

Nothing is final until he’s dead. And even then, I’m sure God negotiates. (Name that movie!)

I find Catelyn's sister to be SUS as ALL GET OUT and so I'm fascinated by what's going on there. I don't trust her and her weird kid AT ALL.

@@Bookborn and were there any characters you wish to become POV?

@@Wolltazar I actually really want to hear from more Lannisters, particularly Cersai. Not because like...I like her, but I would like to know what's going on in that head lol

If you've read First Law, they are much less graphic than that.

@@Bookborn I have not read First Law, but it’s on my list. I’m pretty new to fantasy. I was always more into SciFi. The closest I’ve come to fantasy is reading Howard’s Conan.

You should just wait until it’s finished in 3 decades.

@@chriscueva1866 I always wonder about people who say they’ll wait till a series is over before they start. Maybe it’s because I’m older, but do people really think they’ll live forever? I say if you think you’ll like it just read it. Enjoy it. In fact, who really knows if you’ll finish a trilogy.

@@juanmorales9738 true, I read the series about 13 years ago between seasons 1 and 2. I never regretted reading them, but It was the first fantasy series I ever read and I kinda screwed myself because no other fantasy series I’ve read since has been as good. Also, Feast for Crows is probably the best written book and thematically satisfying. If you finish the series and crave more maybe try watching Preston Jacobs. His videos are the best ASOIAF content to be released since Dance.

And I had to spill blood to get my Eras sweatshirt so thank you for noticing it 🤣

Oh Kyle knows 🤣🤣 this was his birthday gift!

@@Bookborn hahaha best gift ever!

I'll for sure be documenting my reading of them! And yeah everyone is dying that I thought Ned must be a War criminal 😭But for real he's wild like can you imagine just being HONEST with Cersei Lannister?! I was like "NED BABY NO YOU WILL LOSE THIS GAME OF THRONES" and unfortunately I just didn't realize how correct I was 🙃

Right… which is what I say in this video? Lol

"sorry Kyle I know I said I got you something but it was actually a lie" - Bookborn in an alternative universe

@@readbykyle3082 Literally

Yes, I was very pleased that it really seemed nothing like the show in the graphic regard. It let you know what was happening but didn't linger.

@@Bookborn TBH I read the first two books before I watched the show and when I did watch it I remember thinking that there's a lot more graphic scenes in it than the book. I think in the beginning it was because they wanted to get people talking about it

Yep. It's true that most modern people rarely ever think of how early people used to get married. And also how early they tended to die, I suppose.

Actually, the average age of marriage for women in the Middle Ages was mid-twenties. It was just the aristocrats and royals who got married early and they represented only about 1% about the population, but they are the most people written about so people think they represent the whole society

I tried to comment this and made a mess 😂 but yeah, that

That isn’t actually true

@@spacelia3920 This. And even for political matches between royals, marrying that young wasn't nearly as common as GRRM would make you think! He just exaggerates for the drama of it all. LOL. And marriages involving very young royals also came with a lot of stipulations and protections on behalf of their parents and nations. Like, they didn't just throw a kid to the wolves! They usually had it in writing that the marriage was not to be consummated until years later when everyone reached maturity (which, no, was not at age 13!). I think some people forget that, uh, people have always been people, and historical parents cared about their kids, too! And even if they didn't care at all... they'd have to be pretty stupid to rush someone as young as 13 to consummate a marriage, knowing that it significantly increased the odds of both mother and child dying (and if the mother survived, her body might have sustained too much trauma during childbirth to ever bear another child).

2) Not true. Life wasn't significantly shorter, high infant mortality just screwes up the statistics. And on avarage people married in their early to mid twenties. Except aristocrats, but that had to do more with politics and was often unconsumated till years later. No matter what time period, a mother younger than 16 is really bad news.

@@i.cs.zamodits Interesting to know, thanks. That said, in Westeros life expectancy was shorter. Point 3 is still valid, for one. And in The first Dunk & Egg story, Dunk was impressed that his old master had lived till his forties. MAybe George R R Martin was working under the same wrong impressions that I had?

@@sergioaccioly5219 GRRM probably wrote under false impression, after all these are still common myths, and they were even more common when the first books were written. But the strange thing is, life expectancy doesn't seem to be that short in Westeros, actually. It seems it seems roughtly accurate., there are a good number of old people in Westeros, and they aren't treated like unicorns. If you aren't killed in battle (big risque for knights, mercenaries, soldiers and whatnot) and you survive childhood you will probably live to your late 60's the very least. Calling Cat an "old crone" doesn't seem that significant, that could be just the one saying it being mean. I'm in my early 20's and my younger sibling call me an old man/ fossil when they get annoyed by me.

@@i.cs.zamodits It's been a while since I read that sentence, but from what I remember it was the speaker's honest opinion. It was something about Bran's attempted murder after the fall, wondering about how she survived - I think. Now, a question. In your opinion (possible spoilers ahead, those that didn't seetheseries or read the books, better stop reading now), how relevant is the fact that Jon Snow was elected Lord Commander of the Night Watch at 14? Granted that he was the second youngest out of hundreds, but still, from what you were saying he was probably the youngest member by a decade.

@@sergioaccioly5219 14 is deff young, but wasn't he closer to 16 at that point? I can't tell how relevant that is in this conversation. That feels like something that has to do more with the narrative than with how Westeros supposed to work. For the record, it was rare to become a soldier before the age of 16 even in medieval times, most finished puberty before they got to fight. And even if you consider 40 as elderly, 14-16 is too young to be commander material. I think GRRM just didn't think that trought, like he didn't think trought the implications behind the Mountain's height... Everyone has their shortcomings.