We are the BROG. Please assimilate us. Resistance is discouraged.

We are the Borg. Prepare to assimilate us.

No they travel the universe but reject anyone who tries to join them.

My new headcanon is that's somehow the origin of the Pakleds.

@@abyssimus🤣🤣 "We are smart. You will join us." "Ahhhhh.... No."

Same here and jeebus are they terrifying

If you get a chance, watch their introduction in the mission in Star Trek Online. Hearing "resistance will be annihilated" and the red lights left me shaken.

It is STO idea. And I personally do not like it. Especially as in Voyager we do see alternative Borg Cooperative. Trek Mirrorverse is closer to Injustice then Earth 3 (making DC reference)

Mirror Dominion is prime Federation.

ALL Borg timelines are explained as identical in Picard....this is canon now and CANNOT be ignored.

It could also be voth can't rule them out

Antiproton makes since for Borg at constant war. The Collective tends to focus more on wounding their target to assimilate what remains.

@@gmradio2436 Eh, kinda? Apart from the cutting beams, the Collective primarily uses plasma disruptors similar to those used by the Romulans. I would think that the infinitely more configurable phaser would be the more logical choice for the collective if that was the sole factor in weapon choice for the Borg.

@@VestedUTuber with regenetive shiled and armor they worry ables about getting in closeand plasma is more powerful close in than phasers, This is seen in in the first TOS romulan episode whne entrprize was close to the romulan ship they were pummpled but when tehy moved out to extreme range the enterprize weapons could still do much of the same damage, But plasma weapon would spread out. This idea is seen in lasers vs flash or spot lights. Plasma is the what stars are amde of. Close up they don't have far to expand n far away much mopre expansion.

They could have gotten it in other places too. Unlike the Collective, they don't seem to reject using something that's not highly energy efficient. Instead, they focus on what works. And there's very little that can resist antiproton weaponry, so the Kingdom would likely favor it regardless of the extreme energy use. After all, their energy is near-limitless anyway.

Living Witness was the real Voyager. The rest of the show was based on Janeway's falsified logs.

"Living witness" was the closest they could come to a mirror universe voyager. Given that DS9 canon had established the empire as being destroyed. STO simply makes them have a resurgence after Siskos interference, shifting Janeways adventures a few decades back.

@@shaftoe195 Disturbingly likely. NOBODY would ever activate the self destruct as often as Janeway claimed.

that was my favorite Janeway

Great episode

Main universe Borg: We want to become the perfect lifeform. Mirror Borg: We want to become the only lifeform.

@@windhelmguard5295Post-Picard Borg: "Fire fire fire."

@@windhelmguard5295is there a difference?

The mirror borg should be the good guys 😋

@@windhelmguard5295 So basically this version of the Borg are Daleks lol, supreme beings and all that.

I don't think that he's the king when you consider Mirror Janeway's borg links...I think there is some sort of alliance or something between Mirror Janeway and the king, and Janeway's crew is off limits, normal universe Harry being ignored because he's the physical duplicate of the terran version means that he's ignored until he starts doing things to them which might have interesting side effects in the mirror universe because of it.

I think I like that better. Well, maybe "like" is the wrong word.

Or maybe that Queen was from the Mirror Universe. That would be an in-universe explanation for why they used a different actress than Alice Kirge.

I was thinking the same thing. Remember what the queen said to Harry in unimatrix 0 “see you soon Harry”.

​@@AzraelThanatosJaneway's drones were identical to Prime Borg, rather than having the tactical armor and color coding of the Kingdom. She could be a sort of artificial Borg like Hakeev was making, but the final dialog in the mission gives, I think, a better hint: the Borg Kingdom is multiversal. They entered the Prime Universe from the Mirror Universe, but if the Ethereans are telling the truth (note STO has done the "new ally is hiding a dark secret and maybe we're on the wrong side" twist like eight times) they may not originate there and the Mirror Universe has its own Green Borg (or had, the Terrans may have used their future tech or god powers to wipe them out).

I would say that the mirror Borg are primitive, where the main universe's Borg are not. The main point to create the Borg collective (at first, at least), was to transcend the familiarity and humanity away. Create civilization that is very advanced but also philosophically drastically different than moral values of the Western world and the Enlightenment. So the mirror Borg is just like feodal society, but with space ships and not with bubonic plague. Not very intellectual or good concept, just saying.

@@thejohanvalli I *think* the Borg were originally supposed to represent the extreme “toxic” version of Communism, similarly to the way the Ferengi represent the same kind of extreme of Capitalism. I say I think that because while we are told explicitly both on screen and in interviews with the writers and producers that the Ferengi are “Yankee Capitalists” (which is a mischaracterization in some significant details) I haven’t seen any explicit statements about the Borg representing Communism. Nonetheless looking at them it’s hard for me to see anything else. I also think that I like your characterization of the Mirror Borg as feudal. The Collective doesn’t speak or evidently think in terms of domination and submission, just in terms of seeking perfection (by its definition of perfect) and of *sharing* that perfection. Unwillingness to to participate is seen as proof of selfish imperfection. Like the most idealistic of Communists, the Collective considers what it does to the species it encounters as unselfishly generous if not outright charitable. Forcibly so, but achieving and spreading perfection is their entire cultural philosophy. The Mirror Borg somehow lost the selfish/unselfish component of “our” Borg’s philosophy resulting in drones retaining far more individuality, which brings along power dynamics not present in the Collective, but definitely present in real-world incarnations of Communism that always include what Marxists label as cronyism or oligarchism. In that way I see the Mirror Borg as being closer to real world Communism than “our” Borg in some ways, farther in others.

I really do not like STO take on Borg. Borg Cooperative make way more sense.

@@TheRezro I like it. THe Kingdom I hope works with the King being the overiding supreme authority, but allows lower ranks some degree of individuality, this means the Kingdom prioritizes tactical gain and being more aggressive makes them harder to fight, some degree of individuality for lower ranks also allows quicker tactical responses, and if they are still interconnected through some kind of hive mind it likely means higher ranks recieve tactical data from lowers and can act on said data more accordingly, also it's clear the Kingdom is more advanced per individual droen then th Collective. Essentially the COllective is quantity of quality, and the Kingdome quality over quantity, but still numerous enough to be a threat.

@@TheZamaron it's cool both ways but original was scarier, more an unstoppable cosmic force of nature, compared to sto just being another conquering force the original borg were entropy

Yeah it's only a minor thing to invert the prime directive, use your shape-shifting infiltrators not to destroy and spread fear but to uplift societies, give them technological advantages to become part of the communion.

It is not how Mirror Universe work. It was result of Federation becoming its mirror reflection, not the wole universe. And in fact from DS9 we know that Terran Empire doesn't exist anymore. For example mirror Klingons basically become canon Klingons from TNG forward. It is bit clear that during 90's creators though of Mirrorverse as dead, because they attempted to write everything more nuanced. Though if we could speculate: Terran Empire killing Borg Queen, could potentially lead to 7of9 taking control of Borg Cooperative. Romulans seeing cruelty of Humans and destruction of Vulcan, could possibly have spiritualistic revolution and basically become like Federation. Dominion in my opinion could become more isolationist. I actually like Communion idea. My guess that Odo bring them information about cruelty of Terran Empire. Especially its fall could show parallels to some Dominion activity. Making them rethink they approach.

All hail the patriarchs 😊

"Tuvix the King and Queen!"

Some Kingdom/collective Cold War might be cool

The first Borg shown at Encounter at Farpoint implied that there was no leadership, just a communal hive mind. Yes, later episodes involved a Queen presumably of a species particularly suited to mental calculations and multi-tasking but having the collective really be just one individual queen that you're dealing with would only mean a delay in capturing the Queen's attention but once her attention was caught, the reaction times should be much quicker which we do not see in cannon where the responses are absurdly slow and adaptations are even forgotten episode to episode. I would say the slow response times of the prime Universe Borg is more about putting concerns and decisions to a broad enough quorum for a consensis with each quorum having to relearn some of the adaptations as they had not yet encountered the issues yet.. If anything, the issues are with multiple minds and of course we all know how decisions by committees are and the effect of the lowest common denominator.

@@johnwang9914 wrong episode. Borg were first shown in "Q Who"

Oo, headcanon accepted

I vaguely remembering the dimensions drifted too far apart or something. So the two universe can no longer connect and the people in the wrong universe also gets rejected by the universe they are in.

I think that the main point of the Borg is to be very unnatural. They want to assimilate everything, which for them is same as to "save" other more primitive (natural order) species and civilzations. Any civilization is always outside of the scope of nature, in metaphysics. We humans can create causalities which could not happen without this autonomous role we poses. Same applying to the Borg collective, but much greater degree.

Id say forcefully erasing someone's personality to serve a collective is certainly evil. It's called personality death and is a form of murder.

@@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0wNot at all, but I get where you're coming from. Think of it like a tornado. It kills hundreds of people, but is it evil? The Borg as an entity may be evil, but the Borg as individuals aren't evil. A Borg cube isn't evil. It simply exists. The dumb queen is evil, the Borg arent

in dungeons and dragons terms they are lawful neutral at latest pre queen. They're not good because Why they think they're making everything better there not doing it for others but for the cokkective. there not evil despite harming everyone they believe they are bringing order to chaod.. saving everyone. the Queen does appear to be evil.

@@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0w In your viewpoint that is how you view the actions of the Borg, but to the Borg they see it as offering these species a 'Better Life' and a chance to become more than they are.

Yeah. Who knows? The game designers could make the Terran Empire a faction where you get to play as your mirror counterpart and his rise towards becoming an Inquisitor.

They said that adding a mirror playsble characters felt to nazi like. So it was looked at

That sounds like real life with a starship. Jk mostly

Omg I'd pay for that. Add in real pvp too..

I feel like that would just be GTA with a Star Trek skin.

Every franchise needs its comic relief. Franchises that take themselves too seriously all the time tend to feel contrived.

yeah, it doesn't even go with established mirror universe lore. from what we've seen, the mirror universe is mostly just more evil in general, i don't remember seeing any actual flips beyond the original terran empire

@@SpooglecraftAny member of the Terran Rebellion says hello, and politely disagrees. Ferengi in general have been a lot less self-serving in the mirror universe, so that's a flip for example, and firmly rooted in canon too.

@@dominic.h.3363 is that in a book? On the shows, it seems like Ferengi are identical in both universes

@@prophetzarquon1922 No, it's in DS9. Nothing is canon that isn't in a TV series as far as I'm concerned.

Heart-shaped ships, painted in vibrant pinks and purple.

@@NeilEvans-xq8ik maple leaf shaped ships , painted in Habs colours .

A different kind of assimilation where people willingly join the Borg and help expand their services across the universe. Like Triple A.

@@rayvenkman2087That's the Borg Colonial Expansion, ie Us. We assimilate only the willing unless we have no other choice. We have superior technology to all.

They would probably confuse the Pakleds to no end. Just freely helping make their ships "go" and giving them free starside assistance.

I was thinking more a space hippy commune, but AAA works too.

Pretty much, yes. A program with just one objective and nothing to restrict the achievement of this objective. So they lack morals or any kind of ethic other than assimilate to achieve perfection, so we see this as clearly evil, when they´re just as evil as an earthquake or a flesh eating bacteria.

There is no malice, but there is evil.

@@SchneeflockeMonsoon But are they? Outside of the Queen at times getting petty, drones don't get revenge. The Borg infect a person and then rewrite a good deal of that person. They spread like a virus with a purpose. With each species is changed, is one cell in a culture that is infected. When too many cells are infected a culture will fall to assimilation. It's not really evil, it's just the purpose of the Borg. They operate along their instruction, "acquire knowledge and add it to the collective." Or would we see it as evil because of they strip away a person's identity and ability to choose?

Sounds like Commie Talk!

Evil is banal don’t you know?

Agreed. My understanding is that Executives wanted a 'villain' figure to have it 'make more sense to people' in First Contact.

@@davidgipe997 It's hard to argue with the outcome though, as First Contact was a _fantastic_ movie and the Borg Queen was a compelling, badass villain. Come on, time travel PLUS the Borg?? So many great scenes in it, including the ever present threat of the crew being assimilated, Picard losing it and going off the rails, Worf's statement about killing him where he stood, the Borg Queen's seduction of Data (which made it _so_ personal for Picard, and thus, the viewer), the Zephram Cochrane subplot, Data's line about how long he considered the Queen's offer to join her (pure perfection), and even the scene where the Holo-Doctor (hats off to the brilliant Robert Picardo) hilariously offers a Borg drone some "analgesic cream" for his "severe skin irritations", which was perfect in the way it broke the ever climbing Borg induced tension. Jonathan Frakes did a _fantastic_ job of directing it and I've watched it more times than all the other TNG movies put together. It was definitely on par with _Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home._ 10/10

Congratulations... you just managed to insult the _Pakled..._

The main universe coming into conflict with a universe where the concept of war is unimaginable is a good one. Flips the typical mirror universe plot on it's head. Allows for a VERY good moment when the prime universe crew realize *they* are the bad guys here.

Man, I bet rotating all the Kingdom's ships 45° was problematic in STOnline, but that would have been a really subtle & funny touch & I think it's a shame they're not shown that way in-game!

I remember a book like that but it wasn't the mirrorverse it was an alternate history, I cant remember the whole details but it was part of a series of what ifs, I remember the Cube being destroyed by the Inconian Virus and the Borg King thinking to itself, maybe next time ill be a Queen instead. Don't know if its the same book though.

@@David-cb1ct That's the one. You see the Klingon occupation of Earth, the Picard vineyards ruined, and some Klingons guzzling the last bottle of Chateau Picard in existence.

@@Unpainted_Huffhines Oof, that'd be brutal to guzzle: I've heard it's got an overly dry finish.

@@prophetzarquon1922 iirc, it "wasnt blood wine, but it will do for now!"

😂

I think an Oberth was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Wolf.

@@gmradio2436 Oberth was probably the Spaceship equivalent to the Kazon for the Borg. "No no if we assimilate that it will cause problems, it'd be a waste of energy to destroy it, and it looks like its going to fall apart any moment anyway. So Moving on."

@@Tazkar That is actually accurate from what I understand.

Exterminate! Exterminate! Oh No! Stairs! Foiled again!

We are the Borg. You can be assimilated if you want. Resistance is understandable. But there's, like, technological and biological distinctiveness, man.

as RTS game, basically another Starcraft. :)

@@sleepingbackbone7581 I could see a cool mix of a resource management, 4x game, and a tactical squad shooter type game depending upon specifics. Drop in as some drones while being able to give orders to the AI forces to do things while you manage the composition of what you have while having an adaptation thing that slowly adjusts in different ways. Then bounce out to different levels across the galaxy to manage resources in different hot spots that you would need to deal with and other things as you go.

I wholeheartedly concur!

The did with Q(John DeLancia s the narator, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bq2meKdzrafQlGw.html

At some point there was such a game in development around 2k or so, with screenshots in mags and everything. I think the title was Star Trek: Assimilation (correction: Star Trek: Borg Assimilator - there is a short article on Memory Alpha). Since that never saw the light of day, it must have turned out to be unplayable.

M.A.D. probably... The Collective would see the Kingdom as a threat they couldn't risk provoking due to the similarities, and the Kingdom probably viewed the Collective in a similar way. If either interacted with the other they'd risk having their authority overwritten by their opposing dimension's counterpart, which, when dealing with a hive-mind, is an EXTEREMELY high risk; the Collective could be lost in it's entirety in an instant, or the Kingdom could be assimilated piece-by-piece (with each "piece" being huge swaths of their networked minds). With neither willing to make the first move, they'd be in a cautious interdimensional stalemate and/or cold-war style arms race.

One would be if they didn't have any technology borg would want from each other it wouldn't worth to fight over similar technology with a similar force.

​@Thescott16 and now the kingdom seems to have made the first move will be interested to see if the prime borg decide to get involved.

There could be physical dangers to attempting something like that. We don't actually know what would happen if a _substantial_ amount of matter were transported interdimensionally. We've only ever seen a few hundred kilograms (in the form of an away team or similar) being transported interdimensionally.

Just watch the 1`00s of hours, not the fart

Since Q exists as a multi dimensional being, my theory would be that he is aware of both universes and in a way exists in both simultaneously as one person

My headcanon: "While Prime Q are mischievous in their intent... Mirror Q are morally bankrupt."

Indeed, that is my theory as well. The Q are omni-dimensional, and Q is Q, no matter what universe you're in.

@@The_Keeper Maybe rather than "Prime" versus "Mirror" Q, it's more like "Model Citizen" versus "Hard Criminal" Q. So the latter are locked up in "Q Prison".

Right? Their true horror wasn't the body-horror, it was that the Borg was essentially an unfathomable faceless monster! They could not be reasoned with or even understood in anyway that mattered by us. An unreasonable alien foe in every sense. Adding any personality with an individualised angle/edge/nature ruins the entire 'monster'.

I was under the impression that the mirror universe had its changes limited to the alpha quadrant and the knock on effects from that. The change to the Borg and Iaconians don't match up with that.

Yup. Not evil, just... uncaring. Like a forrestfire, sweeping you away, not because it is evil, but because you were simply in its path.

@@The_Keeper Forest fires aren't sentient though. The Borg are ruled by Queens who have their full cognitive faculties and know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. Subjugating entire worlds for their own benefit, to the detriment of said worlds and their numerous, unique populations and cultures, _just because they can,_ is _textbook evil._

@@tikdoph fair point.

Yeah, they would probably be considered somewhere between “chaotic neutral” and “true neutral”. The reasons being that they are like a controlled chaos that only seeks out what benefits themselves/itself. They don’t care who’s “good” or “bad”. They only seek out to achieve their own agenda of “perfection” via assimilation.

It's because the Dominion is real and in "our world" and it leaves lasting effects. The Dominion, much like The Joker always attempts but fails with batman, forces the Federation to break their rules and what the Federation realizes, is once some things are broken, they can never be put back together again. The Federation can never go back to being the explorers of the TOS or even the slightly militarized explorers of the TNG era, because of the Dominion Starfleet will forevermore be, first and foremost, a military force. The description of the Defiant in DS9 as being "The first WARSHIP ever produced by starfleet" isn't a throwaway line. It means Starfleet has crossed the proverbial Rubicon and they cannot go back. Yes it was originally designed by Sisko et al. to fight the Borg, but it was first USED against the Dominion.

@@milhousevanhoutan9235 Yes, exactly 🙂

😂

We got a taste of that in the two parter mission “The Measure of Morality.”

Unrelenting, oppressive order throughout the galaxy.

​@coralcopperhead685 either that or the Queen would write a last-second sleeper program eventually resulting in something akin to the Lore/Early-Seasons Goa'uld... Realistic to either? Maybe not. Does it matter? Not since a _Queen of The COLLECTIVE_ became a _thing_

Altered timeline

it was another timeline

That was the confederation timeline ironically the confederation was closer to the federation that the mirror universe empire as the confederation, from my understanding were just the federation if they were basically human first.

Alternate timeline. And even though I consider Discovery and Picard non-canon (like many fans), season 2's timeline is set within an alternate timeline where the Federation never comes to existence and is instead replace with a oppressive regime called the Confederation. I felt the plot of season 2 would've been a whole lot better if Q had altered the Mirror Universe timeline where the Terran Empire never fell to the Alliance and continues they're oppressive regime over the mirror universe, kinda like those novels where in the mirror next gen, set in an alternate mirror universe (irony), where the Terran Empire never fell and Picard leads a crew of gangsters and madmen in his pursuits of conquest.

If they are using antiproton weapons it could mean that they have assimilated the voth or even the solanae dyson sphere entirely. i may be wrong but i believe the voth are the only living race in sto that uses ap weapons, there is the iconians too but im thinking the twist in the story is that the other massive ship in this mission are the mirror universe iconians, with a different name

No, it takes place in the future of the main universe

Humans frequently think of predators as evil. Just look at their comments on nature channels, especially if it's a ugly animal like a crocodile. Many people have gone full Disney in their assessment of nature.

If I had to guess... the Confederation Corps is basically a perpetually pissed off Starfleet. And we all know shtako gets real with Starfleet gets pissed.

It's not that the Borg couldn't adapt body armor in response to kinetic weapons, it's just that it's so outside their scope at the time combat takes place that none of the drones would have that kind of equipment to replicate it. Also adapting still takes energy, it just makes defense a lot more energy efficient and complete until overwhelmed as it was in the final battle of ST:FC.

by the 24th century most federation types are too evolved to consider hand to hand melee combat its the same reason that the asgard would need earth and Col O'Neil specifically to fight the replicators they had evolved past the point of being combat capable@@alphax4785