Bottom-Up and Top-Down: Materialists Are Half-Right | Jonathan Pageau (Pints with Aquinas)

  Рет қаралды 6,339

Jonathan Pageau - Clips

Jonathan Pageau - Clips

2 жыл бұрын

Watch the full version:
Pints With Aquinas: Atheism, Boobs, and Swearing w/ Jonathan Pageau: • Atheism, Science, and ...
The clips on this channel are selected and compiled by certain members of the Facebook Group (linked below) and not by Jonathan Pageau himself.
The unofficial Symbolic World Facebook discussion group: / 1989208418065298
=======================
Main channel: / pageaujonathan
Support:
Website: thesymbolicworld.com/support/
Patreon: / pageauvideos
Subscribestar: www.subscribestar.com/jonatha...
Paypal: www.paypal.me/JonathanPageau
Links:
Website: www.thesymbolicworld.com
Facebook: / thesymbolicworld
Twitter: / pageaujonathan
Bitchute: www.bitchute.com/channel/page...
Dtube: steemit.com/@symbolism

Пікірлер: 38
@candaniel2
@candaniel2 2 жыл бұрын
I used to be an agnostic leaning into atheism and Jonathan among others with time completely dismantled my materialist worldview and made me realize that Christianity is anything but stupid and superficial. The more I listen now, the more I understand how my old opinions on religion stemed from biases, ignorance and a lack of understanding for religious language. Be sure to know that your work is incredibly valuable for many people!
@icarovdl
@icarovdl 2 жыл бұрын
Pageau saying "bullshitting" makes my day
@Wingedmagician
@Wingedmagician 2 жыл бұрын
During that atheist spiel at the beginning I was basically thinking “wow he knows me exactly how the hell” I’m a proud atheist bordering on anti theist / new atheists and that was done perfectly! No straw man in sight. still love watching and I love Pageau especially! ✌️
@joet7580
@joet7580 2 жыл бұрын
The atheist perspective is not complicated. It’s very common for a contemporary christian to understand an atheist’s worldview much better than the atheist understands his.
@csongorarpad4670
@csongorarpad4670 2 жыл бұрын
@@joet7580 I'll attest to this. The reason is, more often than not, because Christians or, at least, myself and the Christians I surround myself with, are all of inquisitive minds and are constantly challenging themselves with ideas or practices other than what they do engage in (a life characterized by Catholic moral law) and this obviously includes atheism.
@candaniel2
@candaniel2 2 жыл бұрын
Even though I don't understand why you would call yourself a "proud" atheist (why is that something to be proud of?), I respect you for being willing to listen to people whose worldview is different to your own.
@Wingedmagician
@Wingedmagician 2 жыл бұрын
@@candaniel2 because I think I’m right 😅 and I want people to be atheists generally lol but I mostly want people to be free and happy
@Wingedmagician
@Wingedmagician 2 жыл бұрын
@@JIMMYUNKNOWN yeah I’m weird haha. I say proud because in these Christian or religious “spaces” online I’ve seen atheists and agnostics come across apologetically. It’s like they’re uncomfortable about it like they’re not living up to something. I never want to give that impression if I’m addressing the religious or engaging their ideas. There’s no apologetic, self deprecating, conflicted atheism over here. Aka proud 😂
@Stephanie-el4sx
@Stephanie-el4sx 2 жыл бұрын
I loved when Jonathan pointed out people saying “it’s just an illusion”, if the point is to suggest the thing is not real only an illusion, well the illusion itself is something which is made up of order and truth. To say there isn’t truth only an illusion of truth there must still be truth, because the illusion itself contains it, of which we recognize.
@dannydeboer8821
@dannydeboer8821 2 жыл бұрын
Speaking of patterns, that reminds me I coded an evolution simulator for my university project. I saw the program running and little pixels on the screen represented organisms and their environment. The organisms "morphed" as their enviornment changed, just like in reality. Species arise and go extinct, their mean is following the environment. Totally astonishing to me when I saw that on screen. But then it dawned on me: "The evolutionary mechanism is 'hard coded' into reality - it works an different scales, even on my computer" Suddenly the "evolutionary mechanism" was as real to me as the quantum field at the bottom of reality. Then I wondered: "Is 'truth' hard coded into reality?" I mean I just modelled evolution on my computer and I had a hands on model that shows that organisms change as their environment changes. What if I coded something where organisms competed against each other and some of them were truthful while others are lying? What if those who are truthful remain and those who perish are the lying ones? That would literally mean that patterns would fight against each other in that simulation. My head was blown. I went up the chain from there
@jacques3402
@jacques3402 2 жыл бұрын
Ah! yes, I had a similar realization not too long ago. Your example of the evolution simulator is really interesting.
@partydean17
@partydean17 2 жыл бұрын
I do not understand what you mean. Are you saying if evolution is hard-coded into reality, and honest beings are what evolved, than truth is also hard coded? Not sure what this signifies
@dannydeboer8821
@dannydeboer8821 2 жыл бұрын
@@partydean17 it signifies that if Jesus claims to be the "truth", that Jesus is literally the only way reality can exist. Civilizations NOT build on truth are doomed to collapse. Like civilizations build on greed, on anger, on power, on this that or the other. Do you understand? Jesus is truth. If truth is hard-coded into reality, it's the only way we can survive millions of iterations. And that explains why Christ says "you're either with me, or against me". It's not "snobby" talk, like "look at me how powerful I am". It's Truth saying "sorry, there are a million ways it won't work - and only ONE way it works. And that way is me." Can you see the significance now?
@cosmicnomad8575
@cosmicnomad8575 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for this example! For some reason this really helped me understand this way of thinking. It actually makes much more sense now
@ezramelchor8421
@ezramelchor8421 9 ай бұрын
Video title should be "Matt and Johnathan talk about boobs for ten minutes."
@beyond_cmog2873
@beyond_cmog2873 2 жыл бұрын
You cant understand the lord of the rings by taking apart the parts of the Television. You must analyse it from the signals that the TV gives out. Lost connections
@heatherwhitehead3743
@heatherwhitehead3743 2 жыл бұрын
Einstein said he believed in miracles. But that he thought even a blade of grass coming up through the dirt was a miracle. Personally in find myself mostly in the realm of beauty. A place where there isn't such a divide as talked about here.
@processrauwill7922
@processrauwill7922 2 жыл бұрын
You can even undercut that bags of flesh point at the use of metaphor. Boobs are actually not even bags at all that’s a metaphor. Metaphor bridges together two distant concepts to give a greater understanding to a chaotic world, I.e. impart heaven on earth.
@renee-mariekrug1889
@renee-mariekrug1889 2 жыл бұрын
QUOTING G.K. CHESTERTON, THEIR HAD TO BE A DEIST IN ORDER TO HAVE AN ATHIEST. 'Te Deum ' 5th Century Monastic Chant - Soleum '
@AprendeMovimiento
@AprendeMovimiento 2 жыл бұрын
Saying that a breast is just a bag of fat is not bringing it down it's actually an elevation through abstraction, it's abstracting intellectually the reality of the breast, it is finding the common denominator up in the realm of concepts and intellectual abstractions to describe the invisible and more abstract principles of the breast. This can be thought as bringing it down when you bring that idea back the the reality of that conceptualization, so "bag" is a concept an abstraction but when you bring it down from the realm of ideas into their hylomorphic reality you will se an actual bag of either plastic, paper or whatever and then you make a parallel from those with the breast and think of a fleshy bag instead of seeing the full reality, then that lifting up into abstraction works as a fragmentation of reality instead of a process of categorization for the sake of the intellection of reality.
@bradspitt3896
@bradspitt3896 2 жыл бұрын
If you're purely bottom up, only paying attention to quantitative things or outcomes/possibilities/statistics, then anything will be an illusion. Yes, these patterns work in the sense that they are useful, but if we introduced a technology or institution that shifts outcomes to a desired one, then those new patterns emerge and also "work." E.g. a technology that allows me to eat through my nose. But our experience with the world changes, "being" human becomes something else. If you're a Nominalist that is, then anything is permissable.
@marklefebvre5758
@marklefebvre5758 2 жыл бұрын
The problems with bottom up are: they are really doing middle out and bottom up implies that they are at the top. In other words, they use a middle out model (correct, we are between heaven and earth and cannot really have any other perspective) claim that it is a bottom up model, explainable by them, thus taking the position of God in their own conception. Of course, they don't have to claim, explicitly that this is what they are doing, no problem there. But this is still what they are doing. Plus one for cleverness, minus one for self deception.
@youssefsammouh501
@youssefsammouh501 2 жыл бұрын
I understand your 2nd point that bottom up puts them at the top, but I dont really get your other point. Why is a bottom up description of reality actually middle out ?
@youssefsammouh501
@youssefsammouh501 2 жыл бұрын
May be a good video idea for you too lol
@marklefebvre5758
@marklefebvre5758 2 жыл бұрын
@@youssefsammouh501 working on it...
@marklefebvre5758
@marklefebvre5758 2 жыл бұрын
@@youssefsammouh501 we are in the middle, between heaven and earth, after creation but before the end of time, after put ancestors but before our children. We are not at the beginning or the end.
@glof2553
@glof2553 2 жыл бұрын
Is your description supposed to say "atheism, science and swearing"? It currently says something else and it's kind of funny
@heatherwhitehead3743
@heatherwhitehead3743 2 жыл бұрын
I have tiny breast.
@partydean17
@partydean17 2 жыл бұрын
Which is still absolutely incredible 👏
@darthbanana7
@darthbanana7 2 жыл бұрын
why does it need to be discussed over a pint of beer and a cigar? that seems like addictive rationalization . a glass of wine at most is all one “needs”
@RodrigoMera
@RodrigoMera 2 жыл бұрын
He was just saying that he wanted to discuss it more calmly and in a more comfortable enviornment. It could or it couldn't signal addiction. He could've said, a couch and a non alcoholic margarita.s
@darthbanana7
@darthbanana7 2 жыл бұрын
@@RodrigoMera agreed but also the fact that harmful substances work their way into routines is insidious
@zenden6564
@zenden6564 2 жыл бұрын
I thought he was being quite literal 🤔
@ProfessorShnacktime
@ProfessorShnacktime 2 жыл бұрын
@@darthbanana7 nothing too harmful over a pint and a single cigar.
Guestsplaining 028: Mr. Jonathan Pageau on Modernity
34:50
Godsplaining | Catholic Podcast
Рет қаралды 20 М.
Explaining the Fall to Atheists
19:17
Jonathan Pageau
Рет қаралды 50 М.
Nastya and SeanDoesMagic
00:16
Nastya
Рет қаралды 36 МЛН
The Theology behind the Culture War
26:23
Jonathan Pageau
Рет қаралды 41 М.
New Media Pundits | The Ragtag Heroes of an Upside Down World
47:09
Jonathan Pageau
Рет қаралды 53 М.
The Meaning of Jonathan Pageau
1:26:07
Brian Holdsworth
Рет қаралды 46 М.
A possible path ahead for recovering atheists - with Nathan Meffert
9:28
Where Is Heaven? A Response to Sam Harris
27:20
Jonathan Pageau
Рет қаралды 75 М.
Where is the Divine Feminine? | Rafe Kelley & Jonathan Pageau
22:42
Jonathan Pageau - Clips
Рет қаралды 12 М.
Dreams, Fairy Tales, and the Demons of AI | Jonathan Pageau | EP 364
1:45:18
Jordan B Peterson
Рет қаралды 405 М.
Miracles and their Role in Creation
47:48
Jonathan Pageau
Рет қаралды 20 М.
Why You Should Stop Swearing | Jonathan Pageau (Pints with Aquinas)
10:07
Jonathan Pageau - Clips
Рет қаралды 14 М.