That makes a lot of sense to me. During the course of the swing, at different points there will varying pressure in different areas where the fingers are pressing against the grips. If the grips are too big, the ball will slip, and that's bad. But there needs to be a little give. I'd much prefer grips that are too big, than too tight.

As the ball rolls down the lane, it picks up oil. If the ball has no flare, then with each revolution, it is rolling back over the oil it just picked up. This causes really bad ball reaction. Starting in the 1980's, ball started to be made with dynamic cores, so with each revolution, new or "fresh" area of the ball is touching the lanes. If you throw a ball with a dynamic core in it, you can see track flare lines in it when it comes back from the ball return. If you're using a house ball the bowling alley has, it doesn't have a dynamic core, so it just rolls over the same part of the ball with each revolution. Which in one reason that's ball are terrible for score. (mostly those balls won't hook because they have very cheap coverstock). If you watch all the ball review videos on youtube, people keep mentioning the RG and Differential. The importance of these numbers is probably way over-exaggerated. Especially for a beginner. What really matters more than anything else for a beginner is to have a ball with some track flare. Higher differential means the ball can roll with more track flare. Track flare is separation in the oil rings. If a ball has a really low differential, then it's important for the ball driller to know how the bowler rolls the ball, so the holes can be drilled in the right spot. But if a ball has a very high differential, the drilled can just guess where to drill holes and the bowler will still end up with something that works. There are an over-abundance of youtube videos that explain ball layout. Usually these give a false impression of how important it all is. And a beginner bowler has no need to get caught up in all the minutia. Ball reaction is almost entirely determined by how the ball is thrown and coverstock. Not core dynamics and layout. However, if the layout is really bad, then the bowler can end up with a disaster. If the ball doesn't flare, then you don't have fresh coverstock touching the lane with each revolution, and the ball won't react well. It may create what's called "carrydown," which will give a beginner bowler really confusing ball reaction and very low scores. Hope this helps. I could have given more detail in the video, but didn't want it end up over and hour long. Once people get their own ball, and notice how it rolls down the lanes, and the oil rings on the ball when it comes, this make sense. If you're just using a house ball, then it seems very confusing, because it's nothing to do with your own experience so far.

According to you tube analytics, The typical person who watches one of my videos is a 35 year old male. Then some a little younger and older. I'm actually older than almost all my audience. Women make up about 1.5% of audience as well. So if you've approximately 35 year old and male, it's just makes my channel even more niche for you.

@@nothumbbowler1802 I'm actually 19 and male. Just hilarious to me to find a literal entire channel dedicated to my somewhat unpopular style of bowling!

Well, if playing 3rd - 4th arrow w/ Tropical Surge, probably not a fresh pattern. One of my next videos is going to be about how the body gets used to throwing one weight. What I've noticed, if my body is used to 15 lbs, and then I throw 13 lbs, It'll feel light and easy. But then if I only throw 13 lbs for over a month, my brain gets used to it, and 13 lbs starts to feel heavier, and I don't throw it as well. Anyway, at least for myself, doing some practice with a heavier ball, helps me throw better with a lighter one, kind of like using a doughnut in baseball.

@@nothumbbowler1802 The guy at the desk said it was a fresh house pattern and zero used it. I feel like he is wrong as well. It was my 1st time using that ball so I have no reference point. Possibly I get under the ball better weigh the lighter weight and it hooks more as a result. I see what you are saying about the lighter weight and muscle memory

Interesting. I've experimented at times with no grips. In theory I think it's best because it gives most feel of ball in hand. But it can be rough on fingers if you don't have whole sizes and pitches correct. I can throw ball ok with grip for ring finger and taking grip out for middle. Maybe I'll play around with that in future. I prefer the 7/8th diameter grips because they give a little more firm feel on ball, than 31/32 size. Over time I've moved to larger grips and more more relaxed grip on ball. I can see how a pro-shop guy may just put in grips based on what fits for finger tips, which can easily be too small if going in to 2cd knuckle. If finger holes are too tight, it really messes my swing. And now I'm about 1/4 forward on finger pitches - which just makes it easier to hold the ball.

At first it was sticking to my finger with no grips after I got it redrilled. He said at proshop they don't make grips that go to second knuckle. I realized the holes were to dry. I put a little oil in the holes and that makes it come out easier

My hubby uses a 3-finger 2, 2-handed bowler he has a 2-finger and a 3-finger. He says he likes the 3-finger better he is newer to bowling we got in the league this year he and my son both hit over 200 every week. My son is not a 3 finger. Both are 2-handed bowlers. with 13 and 14pd weight balls. Because people gave them some balls. Hubby is a big guy too throws 17 to 20 miles and son throws a slower 10 to 12-mile-hour ball. Not sure of that matters just thought I'd share. I thought about going 4-finger. I'm a one-hand bowler. Newer as well and I'm about to move to 2 handed. I use 14 and should never had listened to people. First ball I should not had bought a 14lb till I got the hang of it first to see of that was even needed.

I have a 12lb and 14lb hyroad. Should probably make a comparison at some point. I'm not sure telling you what I see in those balls would be helpful, since I doubt we both roll the ball the same way. The 12 lbs core is fine. If flares enough, but would need to have a strong layout to get it to flare close to the 14 lb one. But it still as a 0.035 differential in 12lbs. So the core is really more IQ like. Hy-road is not so strong in oil as other balls. But on the dry, it'll hook hard. In 12lb it's easy to throw through breakpointt and then can be very snappy in dry. 14lbs is a better house shot ball for me. I'd throw some practice games with a 12lb houseball first to be sure about weight. 13 lb core in much closer to 14 lb. 12 or 13lb hustle core is the one I'd avoid.

Thanks. I hope so. It took long enough to make.

Thanks. In your case I guess it depends on rev rate. I used to throw the ball 12mph when I used to bowl with my thumb. Which was kind of matched for the rev rate I used to have back then. Although to be honest, it may be best to find a coach to look at your game first. When I switched to bowling w/o my thumb, I started out with my old 12MPH ball speed and it took some times to learn how to generate more speed. The trick is getting a more smooth form that just happens to transfer more energy to the ball. Unless you also have a very low re rate, 12.5 mph indicates you're probably not efficiently transferring energy from your legs and slide into the ball.

Due to issues with my hand I can't grip a thumb ball finger-tip. Ironically, going thumbless was the best move ever for my thumb game. As I could forget totally about rolling it good, and just used what felt best for spares. I gradually went through many span and pitch changes to be able to throw spares better. Eventually coming to something so good, I can throw strike shots much better than before. My thumb balls are drilled what I call, stretch conventional, with grips. So I can much more easily hold the ball. I have been working on my thumb game for certain extreme conditions that see sometimes in tournaments. I look good bowling with thumb in video, because those lanes were totally stripped dry on outside. And on those conditions my 180 rev rate with good control becomes an advantage. I am not worried about injury to my wrist now. The injury wrist comes when first bowling no thumb, bowling too much and too heavy ball before the body can adapt. Since I mostly use lighter weights that also protect me from injury.

The speed you see on the monitor is only an estimate of your actual speed, since it reads ball speed off the end of lane, not release point. Nonetheless, to answer your question, if someone is getting to 17 MPH or more monitor speed, that is fast. 19+ MPH - I've seen people do it. But that is unusally very fast. 12 MPH on the other hand is slow. I used to throw 12MPH when I was a low rev thumb bowler. But the best speed really depends on rev rate. A higher rev rate allow bowler to use more speed. Too high rev rate, and low ball speed just means the ball will be hooking all over the place and be very hard to control. The last things I'll say, and this is common knowlege, but easy to ignore, is that the best way to work on ball speed is not to go up there and just try to throw the ball harder. Good ball speed comes from a smooth approach that transfers momentum from the body into the ball. I think this takes time to develop.

I have experimented without grips. In one way it feels better. My fingers feel the ball more. I like the firmness. The problem is the ball wants to slip off my hand a little, causing me to pull it. It was also very rough on my hands. But if someone has longer fingers and large enough hands, I can see it working.

@@nothumbbowler1802 Appreciate the response, and you're correct. Since i'm able to palm a basketball, palming a bowling ball is easy with my longer fingers.

I have a long list of videos to make. For spares, I have one on 10 pin. And trying to lead with shoulder. I've seen other nothumb bowlers who are much better than I could ever be at reverse hooking and spares. Shat I really do for spares is use a ball with my thumb. I will probably make a video on some point about thumb bowling for people who can't hold ball with their thumb. As it'll always be an advantage to be able to just throw in straight on sport conditions. For house shot, using a spare ball is fine.

@@nothumbbowler1802 okay gotcha! I appreciate it. Love the content by the way.

Thanks. I was hesitant to make video, b/c I'm just some guy and not a coach. But I have also seen enough 1 hand no thumb bowlers really struggle b/c they use too heavy a ball.

I do have a decent number of bowling balls, but I haven't thrown so many to compare brands. I think the key for 2 finger bowling is to have something controllable. Solid's in general work much better for me than pearls. Motiv Forge Ember and Blue Tank has been my best balls bowling w/o thumb. But that's just me.

If you're hitting 17 MPH with a 16 lb ball, then that's what works for you.

@@nothumbbowler1802 I just got a 16lb Envy Tour for my bday. Took a week to get the ball delivered. Pro shop has 0 in that weight. Lol

I agree that most bowlers should either use their thumb or bowl two-handed. Nonetheless, for some people, one hand no thumb is the best option.

1 hand no thumb is my best option also. I just found out though. Since I been using thumb balls that they are drilled wrong. Hahah I'm cranking out 17mph easily have been faster and slower using a DNA ball I also bowl right handed and balance on my right leg sometime depending on my left leg pain. I still seem to be around 180. No I gonna get the pro shop to watch me and see if we can get my ball drilled correct now which is gonna change my game for the better I hope. When I go faster then 17mph I think I leave the 10 pin up to much

After trying easily over 100 different thumb drillings (spans, pitches, thumb hole shapes) over 2 decades, I could never get beyond trying to learn how to just hold the ball with my thumb. Once I could release the ball properly without my thumb, it was obvious the issue was just how my hand is, so I would never really get anywhere bowling with my thumb and fingertip grip. At the time it seemed like an easier transition from bowling with my thumb.

@@nothumbbowler1802 ok so why not go 2 handed if you were struggling to learn 1 handed? What made you go the Mike Miller path?

@@AMFthereturn Some of the things you see good two handers do, they can do b/c they learned the motion as a child. I did not want to be some 40 something year old two hander with 14 MPH ball speed, who looked like he started to bowl that way at past 40 years age. I went with what I felt my body could do. Although, to be a good one hand no thumb bowler, it requires time to develop strength. Especially wrist and hand, and there is no way to develop those muscles other than bowl and wait for body to adapt. Physical fitness is the most underappreciated part of bowling. Having a good exercise routine is essential for learning some of these bowling styles later in life. I don't think most bowlers understand how physically demanding some styles are. I felt at the time staying one hand would be easier on my body. Not sure how true that is anymore. Or maybe I could just say I felt too out of shape at the time to be a good two handed bowler. I could probably learn how to do it now however. I looked at Mike Miller more because I didn't understand what Tom Daugherty was doing with his push away. Also, some one hand no thumb bowlers have large hands and are able to kind of just go finger tip, spread their fingers and palm it. Which is what TD does. I can't do that. It seemed Miller used more technique to control the ball, whereas TD is able to just grab it. Anyway, it just seemed that since I couldn't hold the ball like TD, it was hard to learn from him. Now I realize that's not true. My next video will be an analysis of TD. Especially he unusual push away. What I'm most interested in in the commonalities of how to bowl with a certain style. How to figure out those fundamentals. Once you know that, you can then apply it to your own game. I never expected anyone to watch my videos. I only make content b/c I love bowling and have received positive feedback from many people that my videos have helped them. Whatever one things of one hand no thumb bowling, it's something people are going to do. Most of them do it very poorly. So I try to be helpful, although I'm still a work in progress myself and always learning.

@@nothumbbowler1802 as someone who is a part time 2 hander at almost age 45 i would say A you can definitely do B is easier than no thumb 1 hand and C has many advantages over 1 hand no thumb. Altho i dont agree with a lot of what you said id love to have you on the podcast to chat about it and maybe help educate you on somethings and also get your whole back story. And if you like my podcast partner and coach would be more than happy to analyze your game and give you some tips. 2 handed bowling is not something you have to pick up in your youth. And its much easier on the body as you age compared to 1 hand no thumb. Would love to chat more. Found your content very interesting.

I have a question. Just curious is other people experience this. If you throw a game with the 14lb ball, and then switch to the 13lb one, do you feel that you now throw the 13lb even better, than if just started with 13lb?

@@nothumbbowler1802Sorry for the late response. Yes, I think it does. I think when I use my 14, I really need to focus a lot of keeping my self balance and staying in my swing. When I go to a 13lbs, that part comes a lot easier. Where now I can focus on hitting my aim point more consistently.

This is probably something you'd have to post video of yourself on forums to try getting helpful feedback. If there is anyone near you who gives good lessons, that's usually going to be better than asking the Internet. But maybe if you have trouble getting into a proper finish position, just do foul line release drills. Followed by 2, then 3 step drills. Other people have videos explaining this. That way you can slowly teach your body how to finish.