INDEED

God Did ❤

This is one of the only things that makes this era worth it

Darnit, after reading your post, every time the thumping kicks in again, I start clapping along and yelling "JOhan, JOhan!" Thanks, Bro :D

Now that I've read this it's now crystal clear to me

Paganini would be insane

We do. In 272 BY, Ctesibius invented the hydraulis, a self-playing organ. Artists would create sheets full of grooves & insert lt into the machine, resulting in lt playing their music. Even 2,000 years later, the music would sound the same as lt did then. In 848 AD, the Banū Mūsā brothers perfected the design & called lt the auto-hydraulis, the main difference being that lt no longer had to be hand-cranked. From this point onward, recordings became increasingly more common. While they're extremely obscure today, they were very popular before the advent of the phonautograph & grahamophone. Even Yeshua is mentioned in the Bible as having one. All classical music has been recorded on an auto-hydraulis, lt's just a matter of finding them. There was a website I went to in 2014 that had recordings from the 9'th Century to the 17'th Century, but I lost the name & haven't been able to find lt again. And hydraules aren't the only self-playing instruments. There are pianos, music boxes & harpsichords as well. It's not perfect, you can't hear voices or more than one instrument (unless you have more than one device playing simultaneously). But to be able to hear music exactly as lt would have been heard centuries or even generations ago is amazing & VERY eerie.

@@nspcrazy1122 :o

@@nspcrazy1122 thanks for the information

Chopin and Liszt

I thought I was listening to Schindler's List at first.

1903 is not too old

@@meeyamabio4040 120 years

@@kodagen0 ok and you think it's old ? How old is not old for you ? 2 years

@@meeyamabio4040 depends on the context really. A century could either be a long time or not, depending on how you look at it

Def! There is more in that recording than “just noise”. A lot of his “stylistic” choices can be perceived.

@@prestoncaprese7416 most definitely! And that's why it's so fascinating to me. It is very decisive in terms of rhythm - rubato which would've regarded as exaggerated and even ironic in today's standards.

He never said that. He said "in the house from doctor Fellinger at doctor Brahms, Johannes Brahms."

@@Milo-fh8zl it's a joke

If he isn't santa claus than why did he take so much time on his symphonies? He clearly was busy making and delivering presents

Just to clear things up, the voice cannot be that of Brahms himself. The piano playing begins immediately after the introduction. The speaker is obviously right in front of the recording horn and could not have gotten to the piano bench instantaneously.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, sadly this seems a terrible omission. I've never heard of the existence of any recordings of Clara Schumann (nor of Viardot, who you mention) though historians and archivists are much more proficient and thorough these days so who knows what might one day turn up. I often think how marvellous it would have been if Edison could have come up with his invention a few decades earlier (on the same grounds I also wish Niépce, Daguerre and others had also got there a few decades earlier!). I'm sure you're familiar with the recorded reminiscences of Clara Schumann's pupils Ilona Eibenschütz and Adelina De Lara, and the recorded performances of her pupils Fanny Davies, Carl Friedberg and others, all of which seem well distributed on KZfaq. [As a footnote, are you familiar with the 1906 piano roll recording of Leschetizky playing Mozart's K.475 Fantasia (also on KZfaq)? 65 years before he recorded this piano roll Leschetizky performed a concerto written by his teacher Carl Czerny in a performance conducted by Mozart's son Franz Xaver! Since none of the people in this amazing series of musical connections were familiar with Mozart's playing it serves no musical purpose, but it's a nice, mind-boggling, connection to the distant, or not so distant, past]. P.S. I love your performance of Dowland's Flow my tears!

Thank you for your kind reply. I am familiar with Leschetizky and I knew of the Mozart Connection and the reminiscences you mentioned. It is amazing to have these recordings. The recordings of Joachim are also interesting, I wonder if he ever met Bach's grandson, which is possible considering that he lived in Lepzig and knew the Schumanns, Brahms and Mendelssohn. The generations of these great composers are not that far removed generationally, when we have these incredible recordings to listen to.

James Doig There exists no recording of Clara

Liszt would've been way past his playing prime, though...

There is a video recording of Liszt playing

@@toilet9181 fake, dont trust

@@toilet9181 Yeah it's a fake sadly, there is no known footage of Liszt playing and I'm sadly confident that there'll never be.

Liszt sucks!

Liszt died only a year before recording technology was invented. Go figure.

Echoherb, don't confuse us with facts!

K

theres one video with footage and real playing of liszt playing chopin

impossible

What? This isn't Liszt playing, it's Johannes Brahms playing his Hungarian Dances No. 1. Also, Historically Informed Performances now exist to focus on trying to more accurately perform and interpret music that is aligned with what instruments would have been used, tunings, tempi, and different accents on beats and articulations, which is important for Hungarian Dances. How do we determine these things? Using eyewitness accounts and source materials, reading letters and critic reviews of performances, studying the technology of the time, taking into account cultural ad historical factors in regards to tuning, and trying as hard as we can to remove modern sensibilities and biases that may make our interpretations illegitimate and innacurate (think "fog of war" but for music). Anyway, I hope your hypothesis continue to expand and your studies flourish. 😁❤️✌️

You’re right, and thank you for pointing it out. Brahms was the one who wrote all the famous Hungarian dances. It was just as sleep of the finger. :-)

As an English speaker, I keep getting: "I am..."

@@truesoundchris In that case, it can't be Brahms, I am greatly disappointed.

@@truesoundchris Very disappointing.

@@truesoundchris I've pulled up a few Grunfelt recordings, but they do not seem to have spoken introductions.

@@truesoundchris Can you give a link to some recordings where Wangermann actually introduces?

Well, considering the quality was very very bad??? Would be limited

I think the problem is that such early microphones did not yet actually record all the high frequences and such. If they did you could easily remaster them, like bring all frequency ranges to an equal level and generally just clean it up, but since this is technology that is over 140 years old I don't think this would be possible, even if we had the original recording itself.

because the quality doesn't exist in the recording, the data is missing

you could produce it very clear, but you would need to make assumptions on how it should sound which may be wrong...

@@HardwareFahrrad There wasn't even a microphone. The membrane was moved by the sound itself, and hat to press a stylus into the wax to engrave the sound. Edison (and others) perfected that method over the years, but it was not to compare with an electric recording, which became possible after the invention of the amplification tube.

They wouldn't have; they have deteriorated over time

These were home recordings, they were not reproduced for commercial consumption and therefore there exists only one copy of each. For this reason, we have today a record made of wax that has been played over and over and over again. It's amazing that it exists at all, given the fragility of the medium.

I remember reading that the recording was damaged in the 20th century when someone tried to play it with the wrong equipment

They wouldn't have sounded perfect, but they would have sounded better than they did here. Some people have tried to record things today with replica equipment from that time. Worth checking out on KZfaq.

That's true, yes, Brahms does even out the rhythm in places. The reinforced melody is only supposed to be a hint, to give an idea of where Brahms is in relation to the original.

Yes - doesn`t the "re-inforcement" come in late each time? How frustrating that recording was to progress so soon after Mr Brahms died.

Johannes Brahms usually accompanied Joachim! ❤️🌹But this is recorded in 1903...

I think he blended the original with a new recording of just the melody.

Probably pulled out the melody line on Melodyne and converted it to MIDI.

That's the fact that made it interesting

Abi bu gerçek mi ya

srothbardt , De Lara?

@@minka866 And...Eibenschütz

Don't forget Carl Friedberg, available at marstonrecords.com

Thomas Staples german

I'd bet my money on Johann Strauss Jr. There's at least one other photo of Brahms and Strauss together too.

I think fashions had changed.

Overpedalled too.

Of course he does, it's to hope the composer knows how to play their own pieces

Carlos Alfano !!!!!!!

It was released on a Desmar LP in 1978, Landmarks of Recorded Pianism. The audio restoration was done by Ward Marston, and the restoration did not sound appreciably better than this. If Marston can't do any more with it than what is on the LP, then it's virtually certain not more can be done. Ditto for it also on a set of Pearl CD's, Pupils of Clara Schumann, from the early 1990's. A problem with the cylinder is that each time it is played, it is degraded further. So there might be/have been a moratorium on playing it any more, and the above named transfers might have been made from tapes.

@@pianomaly9859 Thank you!

@@pianomaly9859 I think they talked about digitally removing the noises, not physically

Frank Boogaard it’s not their faults

That's not clapping

@@Zager-recap that was a joke!!

Groove wear, 160 RPM

😅😂🤣

Pardon?

La technologie pour enregistrer n'existait pas au temps de Bach et Vivaldi

Joseph Joachim died on 15 August 1907

It's not bogus. Look it up.

Dork!!

The first one?