Thank you to the hosts for pushing back on the guest asserting that historical and geographical things are "known."

Well he has convinced me. Heartland it is!

About 121:10, Gardner incorrectly states, "According to the Book of Mormon, the plates that Joseph got were never buried in the Hill Cumorah." Not true per Letter IV from Oliver Cowdery. In describing Joseph's interaction with Moroni, Oliver stated, "He then proceeded and gave a general account of the promises made to the fathers, and also gave a history of the aborigines of this country, and said they were literal descendants of Abraham. He represented them as once being an enlightened and intelligent people, possessing a correct knowledge of the gospel, and the plan of restoration and redemption. He said this history was written and deposited not far from that place, and that it was our brother's privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain, and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record." This statement is very clear that Mormon's abridgement of a 1000 years of Nephite history (likely done during the 10-year treaty with the Lamanites and when Mormon refused to lead the Nephite armies) was WRITTEN and DEPOSITED not far from where Joseph got the plates and the Urim and Thummim from Moroni. The plates contained a history of the aborigines of this country (America). At about 122:50 Gardner says that Joseph didn't call the hill where the plates were located, Cumorah until the 1840s. That is an ABSOLUTE lie and explains why Cumorah is not found in Saints Vol 1. Scholars deliberately censored it to promote the Mesoamerican model. Has Gardner forgotten the Hymn about Cumorah in Emma's 1835 Hymnbook? What about D&C 128:20 (given Sep 1842), "20 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets-the book to be revealed. A voice of the Lord in the wilderness of Fayette, Seneca county, declaring the three witnesses to bear record of the book! The voice of Michael on the banks of the Susquehanna, detecting the devil when he appeared as an angel of light! The voice of Peter, James, and John in the wilderness between Harmony, Susquehanna county, and Colesville, Broome county, on the Susquehanna river, declaring themselves as possessing the keys of the kingdom, and of the dispensation of the fulness of times!" Joseph was reflecting back on events in early Church History in the 1820s! ***Cumorah mentioned in 1823*** Additionally, we have history of Lucy Mack Smith. During Joseph’s first encounter with Moroni in Sep 1823 [repeated at least 4 times], we have the following account from Lucy Mack Smith in the Joseph Smith Papers. Lucy Mack Smith was cited 128 times in Saints Vol 1, but key Cumorah quotes and early church history have been censored! “…you must tell your father of this for he will believe every word you say the record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place remove the Grass and moss and you will find a large flat stone pry that up and you will find the record under it laying on 4 pillars of cement- then the angel left him” ***Cumorah Mentioned in 1827*** Here is an account of Cumorah in Lucy Mack Smith’s History BEFORE Joseph got the plates. On pages 98 and 99 we learn that Joseph was sent to Manchester (6.7 miles south of Palmyra) on business by his father. He was expected back before dark, but did not return until after dark and his parents were very worried. They asked Joseph why he was delayed 3 hours in returning home. “Presently he smiled, and said in a calm tone, “I have taken the severest chastisement that I have ever had in my life.” My husband, supposing that it was from some of the neighbours, was quite angry and observed, "I would like to know what business anybody has to find fault with you!" "Stop, father, stop," said Joseph, "it was the angel of the Lord: as I passed by the hill of Cumorah [not mentioned in Saints Vol 1, page 36], where the plates are, the angel met me, and said that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord; that the time had come for the Record to be brought forth; and that I must be up and doing, and set myself about the things which God had commanded me to do.”

I34 min. Bit ridiculous. „No that’s not what it says. Animals are moving to water during droughts.“ „Oh I haven’t heard that one“ „Well its a bit closer to the text“ „Let me press on that and read it“ „Well unless I remember it wrong“ That in and of itself is iconic. Where is all the confidence when the text is actually pulled up. Turns out that it is not closer to the text unless you approach it with the preconceived notion that it cannot be in heartland. Also saying that there wasn’t enough agriculture in heartland seems unfounded. Source: trust me bro

You guys are killing it with these guest. I can't tell you how freaking excited i get every time you guys release new videos. I'm really looking forward to your documentary coming out. Keep going my guys

Can you please invite Bruce Porter to come on…

I like listening to these other theories even if they are just plain wrong lol

I'm sorry, but him saying at 36:36 that bison were only in the American plains is not accurate. There's extensive evidence of bison in the eastern United States.

I’m a heartland guy but I love this

I love how you introduce him as "an Esteemed Scholar," like that's a compliment. The best kind of non-compliment compliment. 😂

9 min in, "the only writing in North America from that time period comes from Meso..." shame on him.

Meldrum - here's verse after verse in the BoM about what it says about its geography 13:45 Gardner -- no I don't have BoM references. I don't remember them.

These videos are fascinating!! I love them so much! I can't wait to view the next one!! Thanks!!

If there were other people on the promised land before Nephi and company landed, what’s the meaning of what Lehi said about this land being kept secret? Like there would have been a welcoming party on the beach and Lehi would say it is “wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations…” I mean, obviously this welcoming party which we never talk about was also brought to this land by God…

I love that you brothers are keeping your minds open to all sides of this issue. Well done in keeping your personal opinions non- apparent and an open mind 😊

One of the difficult things for me about these gentlemen that you have on is that they have a financial stake in their perspective being correct. I think it would be "bad for business" if they allowed themselves to accept new contradicting data. I really do appreciate the purpose of this channel giving voice to perspectives that fundamentally disagree yet still being based on the Book of Mormon being another testament of Jesus Christ. Thanks!

Thank you for having Brant Gardner on for this nice long interview! I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. I have seen his interviews with Stephen Murphy's excellent "Mormonism with the Murph" channel also, along with the ones he did with Greg Matsen of Cwic media and Steven Pynakker of "Mormon Book Reviews". I am currently reading his book, the one he mentioned in this interview: Traditions of the Fathers: The Book of Mormon as History. I am thoroughly enjoying it - it is increasing my appreciation for the Book of Mormon, helping me to understand the cultural and historical context of the scriptures contained therein, much more than ever before. It seems much more 'real' to me now, which helps me to appreciate the messages contained in the Book of Mormon more thoroughly. Overall I think he did a very good job outlining some of the basic ideas of the Sorenson Mesoamerica model along with some of the tweaks that he has made to that model in the years since "Mormon's Codex" came out. I have read that book also, along with Sorenson's previous book "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon". I was pleased that he was able to cover as much as he did in a 1hr30 minute slot. I favor this geographical model, obviously, as I have found, after looking at all the other models out there, in great detail, that this model has the best fit from a scientific and logical standpoint. Another person who would make for a really awesome interview on this channel is Jerry Grover. He could talk about 2 very interesting books that he has written, which are available for free on Book of Mormon Central: Translation of the “Caractors” Document, and Geology of the Book of Mormon. These, and other books he has written can also be found on the bmslr-dot-org website.That is short for 'Book of Mormon Scientific and Linguistic Research". Jerry makes no money off his publications or materials and does no self-promoting. Steven Murphy interviewed him as well, very recently. His "Translation of the Caractors Document" book is especially interesting and fascinating. It is basically a very detailed and meticulous book showing a proposed translation of the "Caractors" document and his methodology of translation. Perfect subject for this channel, along with his other books, not just the two I mentioned.

I have been looking forward to this interview!

I'm not going to argue either way. I think it is important to study and learn from the Book of Mormon. We need to learn what we should do. We don't need to know where it took place as much as believing in the principles it teaches. If your testimony of the book is based on where you believe it took place you are on shaky ground.

I really enjoyed listening to this conversation on Meso America and the Book of Mormon. I enjoyed listening to Rod Meldrum when you met with him. It’s fascinating listening to these different perspectives. I never heard about the Baja location before. I’m now interested in learning about it. I have never doubted the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon , not even once. Thank you for your investigation and sharing this information.

Christ visited the Nephites in America. The Church won’t conclude that but I am happy to affirm that.

The more I listen to him, the more I believe in the Heartland evidence. He seems all business... little to no heart. Listening to the Heartland evidence is FULL of spiritual nuggets... in addition to bountiful physical evidence... it's beautiful and enriching. I hope most people are able to feel and see the difference.

The spirit doesn’t confirm his words to me. But that is just me 😂

I think we (the guest and I) grew up in the same Ward over 50 years ago. This is the first I've heard his name in over 40 years yet I recognized his voice. I find so many of these guests, on all sides, make leaps of suppositions to make their points. And the hosts just nod in agreement without a challenge.

Thank you so much for your podcasts. I find them all interesting. Some I'm sitting there nodding my head, and other times I'm like, oh! I love it! Thank you 😊

He is really knowledgeable, and at least he doesn't deny the archeology of Mesoamerica like most meso guys do. He seems to hold to a scholarly view on these things. For me, i feel like the Mesoamerica theory is more important to him than the Book of Mormon, and he is willing to rationalize what the phrophet said. When you read the Wentworth Letter and Joseph Smith Testimony, Joseph is getting information about the Nephites from Moroni. Joseph was probably the best person in this dispensation who knew where it happened, while everyone else speculates. Note: hieroglyphs of the San Batolo paintings with the topless women and blood letting ceremony of a king of San Bertolo dates to 300 BC. This doesn't match what I think a Nephite temple would be like. Mayan is an accepted written language by most scholars now. However, It was not the first deciphered written language. The Natives in eastern Canada language was learned by Jesuit priest. They had a Bible written in their own hieroglyphs.

There is a pyramid complex off the West Coast of Cuba, because of how deep it is, geologists suggest it is millions of years old. But we know there were catastrophic events in this part of the world at the time of Enoch, Noah, and Christ at least. Contradicting other academic professionals is culturally seen as contentious and defamatory and so there are professional courtesies. An unspoken go along to get along. It really does seem like Cuba, Florida and Yucatan were connected at some point. We see massive flood sediments that go into the Gulf of Mexico that had to of come from a larger flood channel than the rivers which now exists. And under that flood sediment is miles and miles of salt, and a prime location for oil drilling. That type of sediment flow residue comes from massive flow, otherwise we would see that on every coast with a river flowing out from it.

I have a really hard time taking "learned" scientists serious anymore. They are never open minded enough to really truly think of all the possibilities to consider every possibility to suffer their opinions and frankly, I question the knowledge of man when man is so prescriptive of their beliefs.

Heartland ftw, the Spirit tells me every time, every video of yours ❤

I would love to have Brant on again. His stuff is really extensive and well researched! Can't wait to read his book!

This was so fascinating! I have leaned heavily towards being a heartlander until this interview. NowI can’t decide. I now understand (even more) why this is such a controversy! I love your channel!

Another Hypothesis about the writing I have surmised is that The language the Book of Mormon was being recorded on the plates may very well have not been the common everyday language the people were using at the time either. Hebrew, Egyptian (reformed or otherwise) may have been a novel study for the nobility, priestly, or scholarly classes or the prophets may have been recording in that language out of tradition would have been of little use to the rest of the population in their everyday lives. Just like how all biblical texts for over a thousand years were transcribed and handed down in either Latin or Greek. but that was not what the every day population were communicating in.

It would be awesome if you guys have Amberli Nelson on to discuss the law of Moses and the Nephites

I live in the Ohio valley and visit sites in Tenn KY Ohio it’s so odd that the states “scholars” refuse to communicate with each other. My buddy in Tuscan AZ who grew up in Indiana pointed out that when he was in charge of working with Indian affairs for the church that the government seems to be very aware of Book of Mormon and are very interested in blocking connections to it to protect US from reparations to Native Americans. I imagine this could be resolved very quickly if our government wasn’t motivated to block it. That’s not a conspiracy against church of Jesus Christ it’s US coa over reparations. As we say in professional soccer it’s the money morons. Going to the museums in Chicago below arch in St. Louis there are tribes that dress as described in BOM and the dress is depicted all over. It’s crazy

Someday we’ll find Onihah sunk no longer connecting the Yucatán and Florida peninsulas and heartland and méso-américain models will be reconciled and we can all live in peace

I’ll be controversial: The Meso model is dead. Similarities are merely ‘other sheep’ similarities.

This is painful. He’s just making assumptions and then obligating people to agree with them.

And can you please have Amberli Nelson come on too…

Thank you! This one was very interesting… Like all the others that I had watched.

Geography that looks accurate today, would not have looked accurate yesterday. Just like the “evidences” that “proved” the Book of Mormon as a fraud, do not hold up today and evidences are surfacing that support it today, but even if we had those evidences originally, it would have been treated as proof of it being made up, because the consensus of that day would not agree with the evidence or consensus of today, and even tomorrow. History and Science books change, not the evidences.

I really dislike the controversy. Joseph Smith was our Latter Day Prophet. He knew what he was talking about. He wasn’t an idiot. I just won’t even listen to anyone that won’t acknowledge that Joseph Smith knew where the Book of Mormon took place, and where it all began. Sorry guys, but I just don’t feel good about the Meso thing, especially in this day and age. I mean look at what’s happening. Why are all these Meso people fleeing to the USA? I guess they are fleeing the promised land 😅, not.

Not an empty land. Laman and Lemuel do not wish to be ruled over, what group is there will see Lehi’s family as gods. Laman and Lemuel I am sure took them up on that and they desired to be rulers like the ones which destroyed Jerusalem, I’d assume. What do we see? Ziggurats and an overly orthodox or literal worship and learning curve among an indigenous people. Nephites were symbolic, simplistic and industrious enough to simplify living. They are still traveling by tent. We have trade between central and North America and even natives in who have travelled to both coasts of North America showing travel is possible and common. I am sure that fleeing where Lehi landed felt a lot like leaving Eden and through sacrifice of they were preserved.

Best articulated argument for mesoamerica model I’ve heard. Well done.

I read Sorenson’s book in college and have loved this model ever since! But honestly; it doesn’t matter where it was! I love the Book of Mormon so much! ❤

Wow the BOM sounds like it really fits the meso model better than the heartland, I’ve been suaded

Mormon didn't bury the plates of Nephi to his son Moroni because they weren't complete. Moroni hadn't finished his work. Gardners argument doesn't hold much water on this issue.

No migrating animals in the BOM? I totally disagree with this, but I think the problem is that the word 'migrating' is misused here. If the alternate theory is the animals were moving to get to water, is that really a better theory? In Ether 9:34 it says, “And it came to pass that the people did follow the course of the beasts, and did devour the carcasses of them which fell by the way, until they had devoured them all.” Animals do move in groups to water, but they also live near water sources, they don't live x kms away and once in a while decide to take a family vacation to the water hole. Following the course of the beasts at the very least indicates that 1) the beasts spoken of travelled in groups ("them that fell by the way" more easily fits that idea vs. just following solo animals long enough that they just randomly die), and therefore 2) when beasts travel in groups/herds like this, it increases the likelihood that indeed some do fall by the wayside because they get stuck, injured, etc. The term migration implies a sort of annual/regular interval in which the animals move from one location to another, similar to geese, and other birds. American Bison are another example of this that clearly could work - regardless, some herd animals don't actually migrate, but they do roam around for food from place to place, sheep and goats can be among these types of animals. Most herd animals however do migrate. The BOM also does not say that the people 'constantly' followed them - perhaps they only hunted them in this way when the migration actually happened. The point is that the argument this brother makes that the BOM does not say the animals migrate is a pretty weak one. The argument against the Mesoamerican model in this regard, is that down there, there are no herd animals, let alone migratory ones. You have to get down into South America to get to llamas. At the time of Columbus, it's estimated that over 30 million Bison roamed North America. Pretty hard to ignore that... And no writing system among the American Indians? Is there any indication in the BOM that everyone was writing? Do they all need to know how to write, or read? I'm pretty sure it was only the prophets that preserved this and tough the people from this. Capitain Moroni wrote the title of liberty - does this mean that they all could read it or was it just a few people that were literate - hence little no no written records.

They did have a papyrus like paper in Mesoamérica that they made from tree bark during Book of Mormon times.

This guy is the epitome of wisdom becoming a stumbling block

The land changing fits with the heartland model too.... So not really an argument for only one side :)

I’m surprised how popular the heartland model seems to be just looking at the comments on these kinds of videos.

There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there is perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.

Lots of assumptions and correlations not even based on the document of the Book of Mormon or words of the “translator” Joseph Smith.

Always learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth. He talks about these pre-human histories, but God said that there were only 5 days of pre-human history. That's not a long time if you ask me. Now 6,000 years ago is a long time, but I digress. It's good to at least get together to discuss.

The best evidence for the heartland model is the Book of Mormon and it's many references to "this land" being a "land of liberty".

1st Nephi 13. - This chapter talks about Nephi seeing a fair group of gentiles escaping captivity from their mother land and coming to the promised land and then the mother land of those gentiles waging war against them but the Lord was with the group escaping captivity. Now, obviously, this does not say where the city of Zarahemla is exactly, but I would guess somewhere in the same land where the American Revolutionary War was fought.

Nice to hear different theories.

I love Brant, he's such an awesome fellow.

1:11:00 I'm from the Philippines and I got more excited when Manila was mentioned.

Freaking loving the content!! Go Danes!!

The Isthmus of Tehuantepec seems like a long distance to cross in one day. I think it's interesting that it says for a Nephite. Maybe the Lamanites were slower?

He was interesting. However, after being introduced to the Heartland model, there is a different 'feel' about it. You could just 'feel' the wrongness of him and i couldn't stomache him anymore. He is just so 'learned' that he wasn't open to any other perspective. He basically said that Joseph just didn't 'understand'. You guys did great. You could see him squirm a little. He does have some interesting thoughts though

I found his huffing and his insisting on the need for training to be a real scholar/anthropologist to be … he rubbed me wrong.

Mammals don’t really migrate. They are warm blooded. But what is he talking about Bison were all throughout North America. They were in KY when Danielle Boon was there. Antelope were very common in Ohio. And throughout the East until recently.

You need Wayne May, Jonathan Neville, and Bruce Porter on your show

Bro Gardner gives a case for the Lehites meeting other people when they arrive. If they did, why didn’t Nephi say so, when prophets later on recorded meeting the Mulekites? Why record one great meeting and describe teaching their language to the new people but not the other?

Hey they've mentioned a discord server in the past, but I can't find a link for it anywhere! Anyone know where to find it?

This is by far the best interview you guys have done that makes the BoM historicaly possible. I'm defenetly going to check Brant Gardner's books up.

The statement that "the only place in the western hemisphere where there is evidence of writen language" is patently false! He needs to go check out the language of the Mi'kmaq!

Brant Gardner uses as evidence, a book by Thomas Stuart Ferguson, who, although he spent 25 years looking for evidence of the Book of Mormon, found NONE and lost faith in its historical validity. Boat load of direct evidence supports that. Gardner is the same guy who, in his 2014 Interpreter article entitled, “Literacy and Orality in the Book of Mormon,” actually redefines the word “read” in order to make fit the ridiculous idea that the Lehite civilization was actually NOT literate. He was challenging another BYU scholar’s (Buck) argument that the BOM civilization was very much literate. He did that because a literate BOM civilization is totally out of place in pre-Colombian America. Mormon mental gymnastics must be exhausting.

so they needed to go to the promise land but went all the way around south America to get there? That seems too much. Even Tucker Carlson is a heartland-er 🤣

I’m a heartland believer. I also don’t believe that the world is millions of years old. More towards thousands

I'm a little taken aback at how invested people are in the different models. I find it fascinating to consider where the Book of Mormon may have taken place and think some of the evidence can be helpful in combating critics of the Book of Mormon, but in the end I don't think it really matters exactly where it happened. I married into a Mexican family, people of great faith and spiritual gifts. I believe they have the blood of Lehi in them but I'm not 100% sure. I tend to think the explosive growth of the Church in Latin America is the fulfillment of prophecy in relation to the Lamanites as well. If it turns out that most Latin Americans are not actually descendants of Lehi so be it. Doesn't change the fact the Book of Mormon is true and meant to bless all people and bring them to Christ.

I don’t understand the River Sidon running North. I can’t find that anywhere in the text and when you google it you just get referred to a study, not a text.

Something that should be noted for all of these theories (including the Heartland model) is the long-forgotten scientific proverb "all models are wrong, but some are useful". In that way, I find the differing Heartland maps much more useful to understanding our church history, ancient prophecy, The House of Israel, Jacob 5, and many other things. Perhaps those down in Mesoamerica might find the Meso model useful; yet, when it comes to the history of the Restoration, I don't see many strong connections with that model like I do the Heartland model. Brant certainly isn't ignorant of geography, and he does a good job explaining his point of view. But as said one statesman: "it's not that they're ignorant; they just know so much that isn't so".

What a nice old man! He fumbled the waters of Mormon question and said something about famine being around that time and missed the mark by about 140 years. Also says he doesn’t know where certain things are in the scriptures. That’s kinda important, I think.

Earthquakes CAN have the effects described in 3 Nephi. The new madrid earthquakes in 1811-1812 have very similar accounts as described in 3 Nephi. There were large fissures miles long, a town destroyed, darkness so dark they couldn't even see with lamps, lightning, rumblings. And this happened in the heartland.

Interesting conversation and intriguing ideas. However: We see what is slowly devolving into a war of destruction happening in the Ukraine right now and it's not over trade routes. In his book 1491, non-LDS writer Charles Mann gets into the massive cultures and civilizations that existed in North America before Columbus and Old World disease arrived. The Nephites built out of timber, only turning to adobe when the trees became too sparse. But never in stone. In the Journal of Discourses it says that the repository of all the records is a cave-like room in Cumorah and that Joseph and Oliver Cowdrey met Moroni there when returning the plates. Did he identify a volcano, or rule out any possibility of one further north? Also the Book of Mormon says the Gadianton Robbers are corrupt people within the Nephites and Lamanites, who's leader is Gadianton.

Finally

There is only one location 100% known in the promise land. The hill Cumorah in NY. The strongest evidence to the heartland/North America theory. All other proposed location don’t have this evidence, and are thus not as strong.

I leaned towards North America but loved seeing Northern Guatemala with that location in mind. I think of North America as the promised land. BUT, I can't deny that the Latinos are blossoming as a rose. I bet we know the answer in about 10 years. 😊

His comments about pottery are interesting. The Woodland Era, which starts around 600BC, is marked by things like the arrival of pottery in the America’s. Prior to that bowls were made out of soapstone or the spread leather in a hole and put hot stones in it. The arrival of the Nephites seems to have taught them how to tempur clay properly to make thin walled pottery.

Great discussion. I root for smart people on both sides (mesoamerica vs heartland) because either one is true and why not gain even more knowledge for either one, i think its all interesting and fun to learn about. And at the end of the day its all about the BOM being true scripture.

Today, 1/4 of the world's population is descended from Genghis Khan. Relatively speaking, he did not live that long ago. For Joseph Smith to have said that North American Indians descended from the Lamanites is no smoking gun and could easily be true whether Lehi landed in North, Central, or South American...especially considering the northern migration specifically mentioned in the Book of Mormon.

Sorry, I respect Brother Gardner's intelligence, but I'm not convinced - and I LOVE Mexico, having served my mission there. Maybe it's because I don't have his training and background. But nothing he said sounded convincing. Meldrum presents all kinds of hard evidence, including prophetic and internal statements in the Book of Mormon. How is Mexico or Guatemala the land of liberty, the land above all other lands, the land where Christ will return, the land of Zion? How was freedom to bring forth the Restoration accomplished in Mexico or Guatemala? One of his main points is that the Book of Mormon lands must have had volcanoes. He then dismisses arguments to the contrary by saying that those who hold different opinions must not be educated enough. Maybe that's true. But I just spent the last 30 minutes going through 3 Nephi 8 and I don't see a single thing that would require volcanoes to be in close proximity to Bountiful. Although thick vapors of darkness are present, and it seems the most likely candidate for those vapors would have been volcanic ash, it's also true that ash can spread up to tens of thousands of miles. If this took place in Mesoamerica, where are the huge migrations of animals described in the Book of Mormon? I could go on, but suffice it to say that I'm willing to remain open on this, but for now, I lean to the Heartland. In the end, it really doesn't matter that much where it all happened. I love the Book of Mormon for what it is. Another Testament of Jesus Christ, a source of spiritual strength, a record of some of the people of Israel, a covenant book, a record that applies to our day. But just like when I visited Israel and experienced sacred feelings in certain places as I connected them with scripture, I long to be able to do that in the New World as well.

If you ever do get several of these folks in the same room, I’d see more value in seeing if they can work out a more common description of the internal locations and culture-ignoring the argument of where it had do be. That would provide a more cooperative goal rather than a debate-which would be useless. Having them come from different external models would provide some tension to really work out some interesting value and context from the internal stories but not be too challenging that they just argue blindly…

I just didn’t connect with this interviewee. He is like a politician. He is asked a direct question, and the answer given is completely off topic and rambling.

If there were other people in the land: How was it given to Lehi and his children for their inheritance? Why is there no mention of other people in the land except those particularly described? Is it possible that some of the children of the Lamanites, Lemuelites, or Ishmaelites were "all those who would go with" Nephi? Why is it only possible that there were other people(s) that were never written of, when all the heads of the families are written of? The idea that verbal language doesn't change very much over time is absurd. It is a moot point! Now look up the word "moot" in a dictionary before 1900, does it mean the same or opposite? How can one word have opposite meanings? Which meaning is correct? Which meaning is used? 100 years with a word in a written language juxtaposed to 400 years without a written language to reference for definitions.

So first, 2000 years of virtually no records of earthquakes in America, so there could have been some geographical changes. Second, in the history of the church, or Joseph Smith journal, I can’t remember which book, Joseph says he felt impressed to move the records in the hill Camorah. He went there and filled two wagons of ancient texts and moved them to a different location

Here’s my favorite cities. Zarahrmla is St Louis, Bountiful was in Ohio, I’ll take Cleverland. Let Manti be at Pittsburgh. Nephihah gets Titusville PA, Morianton gets Scranton/Wilkes Barre PA, Lehi gets Easton PA, Moroni was in NJ I’ll take opposite Philly. Ammonihah/ Noah the Twin Cities. Minneapolis/ST Paul. I’ll put Jacobugath in Yellowstone. Angola gets Angola Indiana. Most of those are not archaeological sites they are modern cities.

A bit too generalized from an evidentiary perspective, but an interesting conversation from an LDS faithful, heartland vs. meso debate perspective.

I'm Super New to Mormonism and I feel I know way more of the book then this guy 😂

Both theories give credence to the Book of Mormon

Immanuel velokovsky has some great books explaining comets and changes on Earth.

"People who know the science say boom!" Boom What?

The BOM was written by Ethiopian Jews. It's an Old World text. Anyone attempting to place it in Mesoamerica or the Heartland has failed and will always fail. All of the answers come from understanding Ethiopian Jews, who they are and where they lived. I will continue to say this until I'm blue in the face. The Ethiopian theory is gorgeous. It makes me so happy. There are no problems with it whatsoever. All other theories are LOST. The Nephites were Ethiopian Jews. They repeatedly connect their writings to the Bible. These connects are totally lost on modern readers. It's sad actually.

I love your videos, guys! But, seriously ... I could not watch this one to the end. It makes me nervous .... so many conjectures, inferences, interpretations without a clear foundation, creative freedom and assumptions. This does not contribute anything to reaffirming the Book of Mormon and only adds doubt to thinking minds.

It’s telling in just the view numbers alone how much people are waking up to the reality of the heartland model. The video with brother Neville quintupled this one in views lmao

Miq-Mac Indians had symbols like on the charactors document.

Or, in other words, He will assemble the Natives, the remnants of Joseph in America; and make of them a great, and strong, and powerful nation: and he will civilize and enlighten them, and will establish a holy city, and temple, and seat of government among them, which shall be called Zion. And there shall be his tabernacle, his sanctuary, his throne, and seat of government for the whole continent of North and South America forever." (Proclamation of the Twelve Apostles 1845)