Breaking Down 40k's Movement Rules | Ridiculous Warhammer 40k Rules

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Күн бұрын

#Warhammer40k
More TacticalTortoise: linktr.ee/tacticaltortoise
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:36 The Movement Phase
01:02 Basic Movement Rules
07:19 Types of Movement
12:54 Moving with Fly
13:39 Outro

Пікірлер: 103

@TacticalTortoise 19 күн бұрын

NOTE: the June 2024 rules update rewrote a ton of these rules: -Models with round bases no longer need to pay movement to rotate. -OTHER models pay 2" of their TOTAL movement to rotate as much as they want during a movement. -Basemeasuring models can fit through any area large enough for their base to pass; they just cannot end movements unless their is room for their base AND model to fit.

@Xander101 2 ай бұрын

The "choosing to not move" interaction is something I haven't picked up. i started in 10th and have yet to play at an organised play event, so it's really handy to know. I genuinely thought one of the neat interactions for Anvil siege force was using their return fire strategem to benefit from their "heavy" detachment rule on their opponents turn. Turns out Anvil is even worse than I thought!

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

For folks with additional questions on how rotation costing movement works - I've started a thread over on my Community page (kzfaq.infocommunity)!

@poolhustler0220 2 ай бұрын

i found it. Page 30 of the PDF "Charging with Fly Models". I wish it was listed under fly ha

@chromehunter2074 Ай бұрын

There's nothing in the rules where pivoting a model counts as movement. ( not that i have found.) Turning a model doesn't count as horizontal distance. A model doesn't have a front or back. It's basically a pillar. Every rule states horizontal distance or elevated distance like say over terrain. Visibility is measured from the model, not the models eyes. If you know where to find that rule, please show me. I can't find it anywhere.

@swabilius 2 ай бұрын

Nobody measures rotation of circles in all my 30+ years of playing

@rafindeed Ай бұрын

I thought i was crazy because i have never seen this not even in tournaments, like seriously, it makes no sense. Im not sure if he got it right or I misunderstood because the specifics mentioned are not even clearly in the rules book as far as i remember

@jacket2848 Ай бұрын

@@rafindeed rotation of things like mortarian absolutely do need to be measured, unfortunately. I dislike it, but that's in the rules.

@morkaili Ай бұрын

Well to be fair in previous editions it wasn't the case.

@austinbeale4372 2 ай бұрын

Why does it matter to ever rotate a round base? Especially when it costs you move, but gives no benefit ie. Cant you shoot/ attack from your back?

@TacticalTortoise Ай бұрын

you draw LOS to/from ANY part of your model - so rotating can give or hide you from line of sight

@Kibbet21 2 ай бұрын

Did not know the guard rules interaction that’s really interesting to hear

@Lorddacenshadowind 2 ай бұрын

Hey just checked the core rules under moving over terrain(and it's also in charing through terrain) the 2 inch rule isnt a house rule

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

You can absolutely move through 2" tall terrain. You just can't move through 2" parts of taller terrain feature (the 2" tall edge of a 5" tall ruin for example).

@Lorddacenshadowind 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise thanks for the clarification

@crustman5982 20 күн бұрын

How does the pivot work for oval bases like ghostkeel

@marwie2598 Ай бұрын

I like your videos - you're a good teacher :)

@MikeScarbro Ай бұрын

One thing I have never really gotten used to is how averse Warhammer players are to actually playing by the rules of the game. I started playing late in 9th edition and the community sentiment seems to be that they pick and choose which rules to follow based on vibes rather than encouraging GW to get better at writing good game rules. Looking at the KZfaq comments for this and other videos where you just literally tell us what the rules are and show the written rules on the screen is a great example of how people can see that and, rather than say "Oh, I've been doing that wrong - I didn't realize that's how the rules worked" they instead insist that nobody should play the game that way. It's baffling. Imagine if you were teaching people how to play chess and somebody said "Nobody actually moves the Knight in an L-shape in real life. That's too tricky to keep track of."

@MBJohnNtK 2 ай бұрын

How would you measure the distance of a Land Raider moving 5" and then pivot for 45°? Would you just measure one single straight line or would you measure one straight line and for the pivot another straight line? And for the pivot, would you measure a straight line or a curve?

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

Land raiders are actually fairly easy for this; you just take to corner that will travel the farthest after the movement is compete and measure the distance traveled to/from there. There's nothing saying you can't pivot during the move, so as long as there's nothing intervening, you can measure the distance straight.

@MBJohnNtK 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise and how would you do that if the land raider needs to go around a corner? I gues the line you measure cant go through a wall. So do it in steps? Goes the line to the edge of the wall and than to the end position?

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

@@MBJohnNtK Well in a real game you'll be using a tape measure, not a click and drag mouse cursor, so you'll actually physically bend the tape measure itself to trace out the theoretical path to travel (eyeballing the clearance from the tape for blocking terrain or enemy models - potentially busting out a second measuring stick or moving the model itself to any points of contention) and then just pick it up and move it to the end point.

@Whagz_BuHu 2 ай бұрын

I think you make the best rules videos for 40k!

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

Cheers ;)

@fiskarscommon5163 Ай бұрын

All these videos are awesome. They answer most questions. I would like to know two things though. One is there an official tournament rules site with a searchable database. Two is there a place (not reddit) where you can have your question answered by a G T level official.

@TacticalTortoise Ай бұрын

Unfortunately there's no centralization in the competitive scene - each circuit runs things differently, with their own house rules and rulings; so there's no central database. Things may be played very differently from tournament to tournament, or playgroup to playgroup. There are also no 'official' qualifications for judging, so there are no universally recognized tournament officials. That's why I try to stick to RAW as much as I can in my videos, and call out the special exceptions circuits commonly make when they come up. I'd love there to be more centralization in the community, but given that it's developed seperate from any central body for decades, I don't think it's on the cards.

@RoyKhn 2 ай бұрын

I recently saw a stream where a vehicle was left tilted after a move, with it's front on the battlefield and it's rear perched up on a short wall. Is this legal? I seem to recall that it isn't but I cannot find a rule that supports that.

@envirobloomtv7363 2 ай бұрын

I've seen that, the terrain was counted as a Hill, also they could be using wobbly model rule (house rule) on small walls

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

Depends on what the terrain is, but most terrain requires units to end moves completely on them. Ruins can't have non infantry/beast/fly models end above the ground level at all.

@RoyKhn 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise It was a ruin. So i believe that was an illegal move.

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

@@RoyKhn If the wall was less than 2" in height I believe it's fine.

@NoxInABox69 Ай бұрын

Question! Can you Fall Back and Advance in the same move phase with a unit? I see stipulations against Charging after a Fall Back or Advance, but nothing regarding the two's interaction.

@TacticalTortoise Ай бұрын

Nope; you only get to pick one when you're selected to move, and can only fall back while engaged, and can only advance while unengaged.

@NoxInABox69 Ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise Thank you so much for the response! Love your videos, especially when your "menace" of a cat shows up. lol

@natesalyer1496 2 ай бұрын

I really don’t agree with the rotation rule. With how small the battlefields are now and how much terrain is on the field it further nerfs knight lists. They have taken so much from those armies this edition now I have to spend movement to rotate to get through an area as well.

@matthewrentenberg1466 2 ай бұрын

I don’t remember seeing this but I’m curious about large models clipping terrain. For example, say I have Magnus trying to fit between a gap between two terrain features and the way he’s positioned, his model (wings) will clip the terrain but his base will fit fine. Do I need to rotate him before I can pass through the gap or can he just go through the gap as is?

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

The rules don't really cover it tbh so that's down to the format you're playing in. Some are okay with it and some expressely forbid it. I'd avoid clipping through to err on the side of caution.

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

If you're not ending your move there you can pass freely. If you're ending your move there, just rotate him to fit. If you're ending your move there and there's no way to rotate him to fit but the base undeniably can, just call Wobbly Model and place him physically wherever, and play nice when someone tries to draw LOS.

@morkaili Ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise There not really any rules for it, because with actual physical models and terrain it is simply not possible clip. You always have to move as is physical possible and is allowed by the rules.

@dantran3628 2 ай бұрын

These rules work really well for tank turrets too

@Baconlazer 2 ай бұрын

One of the reasons why CD players much prefered Skarbrand over Bloodthirsters is due to Skarbrand on a round base while the BT is on a large Oval Base, meaning you need to measure the rotation and facing of the BT.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

It's mostly the ease of setting up Skarbies base within Shadow vs. the BT's big oval. Skarbrand still technically needs to measure rotation, but it basically doesn't matter for him since he barely extends off his base, whereas the BT has huge wings he has to worry about.

@ChrisLandegent 2 ай бұрын

Will someone provide a reference to where this"rotate rule" is? All I can find is you measure the furthest part of a model's base (or part of model if no base) moved. So your example of the winged dude is wrong because he has a round base, thus any amount of rotating is irrelevant and free.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

The rule you referenced is exactly it - whichever reference point on the base you chose to measure your movement distance from is going to go additional distance if it's spinning while moving.

@ChrisLandegent 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise Oh, now I see how I misread it. Thanks.

@gozolve 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoiseand if I pivot on my reference point?

@flashgitz1887 Ай бұрын

Dude so if I played with bases only how would you know what is the front or back? They are circle bases there is no technical front. It’s just an over examination of the word furthest

@jacket2848 Ай бұрын

@@flashgitz1887if you played with only bases then you're basically not playing the game. You can move the goalposts all you like because you're having a different argument.

@Johnnymarzo Ай бұрын

Good to know you don't get the heavy keyword EVER in your opponents turn

@AnzumanaTaal 23 күн бұрын

a tank can move vertically really ?

@poolhustler0220 2 ай бұрын

Why does fly work on Charges? You showed a screenshot of Flying and it says Normal, Advance, or Fall Back. I don't see charge anywhere on that sheet. What am I missing?!

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

It's in the Charge Phase rules.

@Wes-xk6hl 2 ай бұрын

Did not know that a strategy which says u can move more than your move value doesnt actually do that Never comes up with my army but iv likely allowed that many times

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

Caused a lot of controversy at World Champs last year since it came up. Learned a lot of people (myself included) there haha

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise Can you cite the exact occurrence that happened there? And/or where in the rules this is explicitly stated? E.g. the Squad Tactics strat you show being used on Terminators - that would allow them to move 6" despite their 5" Move characteristic AFAIK

@adrianthom2073 2 ай бұрын

Movement in Second Edition was lots of fun.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

What were the big differences?

@flashgitz1887 Ай бұрын

“Distance travelled by that portion” 2:01 * a base pivoting rotating does not use up any horizontal movement as it is stationary What he did was draw two lines one being longer than the other from different positions of the base. Ignore the LOS rules and ignore the model on the base for a sec, if a circle base moved from x to x it’s not counting the circle rotating around He needs to find more info where pivoting costs movement to prove his point instead of citing page 13 because the word “furthest” is too vague. He’s overly looking into the basic core rules. I’ve spent enough time on a KZfaq comment

@TacticalTortoise Ай бұрын

You measure the distance travelled from the point on that base that moved the farthest - if you spin the base around, whichever point you are measuring from will have moved extra distance thanks to the rotation.

@Haasenbau 2 ай бұрын

Love your Rule Vids. I got just a litte note to add: you cant use your "fly" rule while charging, it says "fall back" not charge. So no charges over enemy units into units behind them. correct me if im wrong.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

There is a section in the charge rules specifically that allow flying models to charge over other models with charge moves.

@rafindeed Ай бұрын

Im sorry but the rotating rule is either completely ignore on tournaments or you confused something or ir misunderstood because ive never seen in my life people measuring rotations on round based models because this would be hell to actually measure as you dont have the precision nor the exact angles in real life. Was that demonstration based on if a model dont have a base or something ? Because it honestly makes no sense because although the sword is in a different place and moved further, if we take the perfect center of the base and move x , the final result would be the center of the base moving exactly x, making it a legal move no matter the rotation in a round base

@TacticalTortoise Ай бұрын

But the center of the base isn't where the distanced travelled is determined from; its always measured from the point that travelled the farthest - so any point on the edge of a rotating would have moved farther from its starting position than the center, meaning that's where you take the measurement from.

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise I agree with this commenter, not since the days of hull facings impacting armor values have I seen anyone counting rotation as part of movement.

@Bucket_Boy101 Ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise In order to turn Be'lakor 90 degrees on his 100mm diamater base, it would cost you 25xPi/25.4 inches or 3.09 inches of move. You simply cannot move him 10" and rotate him nearly 90 degrees as you showed. You'd be able to move him somewhere in the region of 8.9 inches and still rotate a quarter rotation. Being nit-picky over angles of rotation is very non-conducive to a smooth game where both players are happy with how the game goes.

@jacket2848 Ай бұрын

@@acrpprca6951with respect, none of you are placing anywhere in tournaments of any calibre.

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

@@jacket2848 And this guy is? (Real ones, not TTS ones)

@OverboardDM 2 ай бұрын

I dont like the rotating rule. Move the full distance but be backwards but still attack someone behind you. Looks ridiculous. I would never play in tournaments. Glad i only play with family and friends.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

Yeah, facing *shouldn't* matter for based minis so you should be free to pose them aesthetically... but it super duper does matter and it sucks real bad

@reloadded2959 2 ай бұрын

If it makes ya see it any differently, I drove tracked vehicles in the Army. Their ability to pivot in place makes it authentic enough. My little M113 could whip around in the position it stopped in, in just a few seconds. Most of the vehicles could do that. Except for maybe our giant crane tanks.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

@@reloadded2959 That makes total sense; but I was mostly referring to based minis. Having your characters or monsters facing backwards because of LOS or moving around terrain and having to stay in that position to avoid paying rotational movement costs just makes things silly.

@chromehunter2074 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise paying movement costs not to move anywhere is silly. Pivoting isn't a move. The model hasn't left its original place.

@felipearias5622 Ай бұрын

Rotating an oval should cost movement, but rotating a circle base should be free.

@chromehunter2074 2 ай бұрын

How is pivoting a model on its x axis considered a "horizontal" move if it doesn't move horizontally? Turning a model moves 0"

@acrpprca6951 Ай бұрын

You're correct.

@nurglematthew893 2 ай бұрын

Nice

@twofarg0ne763 2 ай бұрын

Unless you're playing in an "official" environment like stores or tournaments, some groups (like ours) prefer to change the rule sets to better reflect our playing style. Warhammer is a game, we play it for fun in our own homes, so we're not super "strict" when it come to published rule sets. If we all agree, then a rule can be changed. Besides, as much beer as we drink sometimes, I'm sure our more relaxed style helps keep blood off our custom-made battlefields 🙂

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

That's all well and good for playing with a set group, but it all falls apart when it comes to new players and players from other play groups. If I came to a new group or club and was gotcha'd by rules the community decided they wanted to play differently, I'd probably not have a very good time.

@twofarg0ne763 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise Agreed. Our group has been playing together for over 20 years. (most of us are retired now). We even have a couple of our children and grand children playing the group.

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

@@twofarg0ne763 Hell yeah; if you guys are all just playing internally then live your best life ;)

@Tavenknaughtlin1 2 ай бұрын

@@TacticalTortoise the rotation rule applying to round bases is definitely the "Gotcha" rule in this instance. I've never seen it used in any tournaments or casual games I've played, nor any of the hundreds of games I watched on youtube. This is said with zero hyperbole. The number of responses you've received points out how very, very few people actually apply that rule to round bases.

@jacket2848 Ай бұрын

@@Tavenknaughtlin1none of you play in tournaments worth a fart then, as you absolutely do have to measure rotation and you can see it in action in multiple world championship games

@jean-philippecarrier2216 2 ай бұрын

I though that if a model had a perfectly round base the pivot movement was free...

@DARTHSTR1FE Ай бұрын

I assumed the same but i also play with people that dont care about something like that. Thats for the sweatiest of the sweaty

@clique7386 2 ай бұрын

Wrong about the 6" ruin 2" wall situation

@TacticalTortoise 2 ай бұрын

A 6" tall ruin is 6" tall... not 2" tall.

@malefic5254 Ай бұрын

Tanks driving over buildings actually ruined this game for me, honestly. It's absurd just how badly this game functions at a core rules level

@soerenkepler 2 ай бұрын

Yeah 10th ed is too difficult to get into by new players

@ChopperMeir 2 ай бұрын

I've only started playing 40k in 10th edition so only played 7 games so far but, my local club is really helpful so I'm finding it quite good to get into.

@clique7386 2 ай бұрын

It's a lot easier than it's ever been