Please do Shadow and Bone!

Agreed, in this society he is the person with the upper hand of knowledge. He knew she didn't understand the basics because he gave her some instruction in an earlier episode. He also knew that she misunderstood what he meant by not giving her a child based on something she said after the village fair. Either he was purposely deluding himself that he didn't need to or he was relying on her naivete to not have explain it. It all goes back to having to explain the whole story of why his father was picking on him. Then he'd have to explain about the stuttering issues which in the books was the real reason he didn't want to have kids. He was afraid that be would pass it along to them. The show could have played more on that.

Exactly. Even my grandmother thought she was going to die as she had her first period and she's only 80'ish...

Especially since she went into the marriage expecting to not have children, then not being okay with it later just because she found out it’s possible.

In the books, for the scene where Daphne forces herself on Simon, he was drunk and half passed out, and then she goes to him and does that. She rapes him :/

What she did was straight up rape

@@ElleKayGee well no she went into the marriage thinking he COULDNT have kids not that he didnt WANT to. its still a lie lmao. not that it excuses her actions but dont make simon out to be a saint lol.

The whole concept of a duke not wanting children didn’t even exist. Reproductive choices at the time didn’t exist. The concept of consent in a marriage (and mostly outside of it) didn’t exist. Infertility did. Daphne also thought that they were already having sex with the slightest chance to get pregnant.

It’s true but he shouldn’t say it 😂

I can't stop laughing over this. LMAO

I mean, he’s not wrong lmao

@@lauren3054 Technically no, but I feel like his description completely undermines the complexity of the story :D

@@The_Wandering_Hobbit haha you’re right, you’re right I like your name btw!

@@leisharigg844 huh? how was I mean and when did I say he didn't care about women? You are putting words in my mouth that aren't there. His perspective makes sense in the modern day, where women and men are much more equal and have more equitable agency. I was simply outlining why it is important to get outside the modern way of thinking and take us back to how things were back then. That was the only intent of my post To illuminate that point.

@@leisharigg844 Aaron is freaking scary. This is a guy who plays semantics rather than recognize that nothing excuses withholding vital information from someone you say you love. It's the kind of things people who cheat tell themselves. If the other person doesn't know, then they aren't being hurt. That kind of moral flexibility is at the root of a lot of tragedy and sorrow.

You are 100% right.

Yup

@@differnet Semantics. Whats semantics is that nobody called what Daphne did what it actually is....rape. And instead keep claiming that "well Simon witheld vital information from her, so its not too bad"

The problem with me is that he knew she didn’t know about any of this stuff and deceived her anyway🤦🏾‍♀️

Actually, young women in the Regency era do learn about sex and are not completely clueless as the show portrays them to be. Sure, their “sex ed” is not about as liberal as today, but they do learn at least the basics.

@@contextTBD it's Regency era, not Victorian

women did actually talk about sex back then lol. this myth has been debunked

Have you actually read up on sexuality and morality in the Victorian age? From what I have read, no. Women generally went into the marriage bed not knowing anything about it. Does that mean that women in that age didn't like it? No. Just that it wasn't talked about. In fact, they didn't talk about undergarments (many contemporary references as to such). And I mean, young women are discouraged from talking about it in today's age, so yeah.

Especially if he tells you from jump that he “can’t” give you children...

Exactly! Using semantics & contorted reasoning, Aaron was trying SO hard to steer his argument, so as to lessen Simon's deception & implicate Daphne further.

He definitely said “can’t” for a reason🤦🏾‍♀️

Yes yes, Shadow and Bone😍😍

That’s the crux of the betrayals. There is no true consent without all the information

Yassss, Shadow and Bone

Yes, please!

Was just thinking that!!

Yessss!

Co-sign. The sci-fi stuff is genuinely fun to watch too.

That would be awesome

Same! I love how intense the guys are getting about this.

the duke was also in the wrong

@@sierra2758 ^ never said he wasn’t

@@sierra2758 ofc he was but I feel her raping him was definitely much worse

@@sierra2758 Don't rush to make her a victim. What she did is significantly worse. You all would be furious if he forced himself on her.

M‘lady

Actually if you read the book, there was more to the lead up. First of all in the book, Simon EXPLICITLY lies and manipulates Daphne about sex. Daphne thinks he got the separate rooms at the inn because he is impotent or something. Like he can't physically perform at all. When Simon finds this out he tells her no, there is stuff we can do. And he shows her sex up until he has to finish, and pulls out. He enjoys manipulating her about her lack of knowledge. Then Daphne actually figures out the pull out thing and confronts Simon when she finds out of his lies. She feels so hurt and humiliated. He doesn't apologize at all for lying. Then Daphne basically says she doesn't wanna even be in the same room as him and says she will sleep in the Duchess' chambers. This is something the show alludes to in Ep 7. When she goes to her room. He angrily bangs on the door, says she cannot do that. He then says that he OWNS HER. Verbatim he says "I own you" and he basically says it is his legal right as her husband to compel her to sleep in his bed and have sex with her. That is his right. This is important context. People imo are viewing this show too much in a modern sense. Men and women were not equal back then. THe book makes it clear Simon effectively owns Daphne. And he tells her this. Anyway Daphne succeeds in staying in the Duchess' chamber. He then at some point tells her of the vow and how he won't be having children of his own choice. The night in question he shows up drunk and asks her to stay in bed with him. She does, and he initiates the sex, then she absolutely takes advantage knowing he doesn't want to finish in her. He never says no, but she obviously knows his wishes. Which is a wrong thing to do. And in these book she does do that TO get pregnant. So yes you are right it is less gray. On the show she does it too see if it's true, she does not do it to actually get pregnant. It was to confirm a theory.

@@falsememorytruedream thank you! it’s a grey area in both the show and the book. i hate when people say it’s “much worse” in the books as if they weren’t both bad in their own ways. they both need to take blame in BOTH cases!

@@chance757 this is so important, doesn’t matter how it happens, the end result is the same and trauma is trauma. Reading a comment like “it’s so much worse in the book because he was drunk” can be very triggering for someone.

@MeyaRose I’d recommend you look into reactions to rape. There are many cases of people either going limp, freezing up or completely having a mind block. Often your body goes into fight, flight or freeze mode in order to protect yourself from what’s happening. It’s not as simple as “he could have thrown her off”.

@@bexc348 They were actually saying, Both Simon and Daphne were at fault in both the show and the book. It is unfair to ignore how he literally owns her, and callously says this to her face. Explains how he can essentially force her into his bed every night as his legal right. Which was simply the reality back then. You cannot view Daphne's actions in the modern sense without understanding this context.

I second this!

I LOVE the IT crowd! yes! please watch it. everyone.

rightttttttt

Omg I'm so happy someone else wants them to do shadow and bone! I hope they do it one day!

Bumping so they see this. I was looking for shadow and bone reactions but i found them! :)

your first point is right. your second point isn’t, because at the end of the day it’s still not consensual. the whole 9 months thing doesn’t factor in.

Well I agree...they might react either after invincible or barry

yessssss

Yes!!

Wow a lot of people are asking for this. I hope they see these!

Well I hope they react to it soon...

Trophy reacts is another channel that also acknowledges Daphne's actions in that scene.

Good job in voicing your opinion in a kind and calm tone! Made reading your comment and hearing your side so much better! The only thing I would change is using the word "modern." The way you used it makes it seem like we should hate men who lived back in the "old" days. I don't disagree how women were treated were right, but we shouldn't hate men. Though there should have been a "agree to disagree" earlier on in the conversation, I like Eric's view a little better. Basically, both sides were wrong. Nothing more or less.

Hi, thanks for your response! I'm sorry if you took it that way. The term modern sensibilities is often used when someone is using their modern(current) understanding of a situation or feelings and views on it and in this moment how he used that to explain the social ideals of an earlier age. The two words go together and have no reflection on the male behavior of the past. It's purely a description of Aaron's viewpoint and how he expected more from Daphne. Not sure where the implication that we should hate all men from the past comes from, as it's about Daphne, but again I apologize if that's how you took it.

Her raping him was "entilerly Simon to blame"?

@@SlyMagma Um, no. I never said that. I stated he is to blame for not explaining how sex and reproduction work, allowing him to get away with fooling her. That she's entirely to blame for what she does with that knowledge once she gets it, which is force herself upon him.

@@melaniev9446 Why is it his job to explain that to her, or even assume that she has no knowledge of it. This victim blaming on the comment section is kinda gross.

Don't worry. It's based of an 8 book series. Each book focused on a different sibling and their romantic relationship. The next season is about Anthony and the 3rd season will be about Benedict.

Every season is based on different couple, so we are done with these two.

I think she would have married him regardless.

I think its more about being able to trust your partner to always tell you the truth. And the fact that she will be the one who will be shamed for not giving her husband a child and when he dies, she is left with nothing. So to her its probably very hurtfull he is choosing his hate for his father as more important than her not getting shamed and having a secure future

I’m here a year after you, and this guy is the villain of this playlist to me the way they think of Simon’s dad. Hoping for a redemption arc.