Never mind the Class 91... the Pendolinos these will be running alongside also can't run at full speed. They're limited to 125mph despite being capable of 140mph These will mostly be operating south of Crewe anyway so they don't actually lose *that* much time vs a Pendolino. Most of the really twisty stuff is further north

The problem isn't really signalling: that'll help with cramming more capacity onto existing lines, because more precise signalling means trains can run closer together. It is fundamentally the issue of the WCML being a multi-speed, multimodal line, and the capacity constraints that causes. Bumping intercity services up to 140mph will just exacerbate that issue.

Even worse when HS2 trains can't go at 125mph on the line up to Scotland due to their lack of tilt whereas the older Pendolinos can.

The reason these trains can't exceed 125mph is signalling related. The regulators don't think it is safe to depend on lights on sticks.

@@rajveerhonrao Is it me or are they now considering running some Pendolinos on HS2?

I still find the refurbished avanti seats not very comfortable

@@MattJames2211 But they're better than the GWR and LNER (Azuma) seats. And the GWR and LNER (Azuma) units have poor ride quality at top speed. I haven't tried out the Avanti IET's yet but I will do sometime and see if they have poor ride quality or not.

And EMR promised great seating on their 810 ”Aurora”. We’ll see if they kept their promise.

Agreed they are better. But we shouldn’t be aiming for minimal viable seating comfort. We should be encouraging people onto trains with comfy seats. Europe doesn’t seem to have this problem. Why does the UK always go for such hard seats on its new trains. The only exception to this is Lumos trains which despite having the same seat shape have much more padding and are much more comfortable. Why can’t everyone just copy Lumo?

Seating is always selected by the operators and not the manufacturers, so congrats to them and shame on the rest.

Corporate greed.

The GWR first class in the Mk3s looked pretty good. Now we have… this.

I was just thinking this. Very boring. LNER's first class looks much nicer.

@@sparkyUK Only on their 225s. The Azumas are hopeless in both classes.

​@@Morning404 Incompetence. These trains cost a fortune. The entire concept is flawed.

Yes I agree virgin did ok , bring him back

I live along the line & can't understand how YT content creators always manage to find quiet trains. I always find it hard to find a seat.

I've booked an Avanti in June from Manchester to Euston and it's cost £45. Try split tickets?

Pffft, just wait till you pay for a Liverpool to Euston return ticket. even with a railcard and off peak ticket, it cost me 144 gbp 2nd class. I despise the railway operators in this nation.

@@slavvy.mp4884 Lime Street to Euston, leaving tomorrow morning (Saturday) and returning later in the day. £38...

Right? £84 quid for a 2 hour journey in not even the most luxourious first class is a rip off! The only other country where first class is overpriced is Switzerland, but everything is expensive there!

Ik assuming that these Evero/ class 805s run as five cars because they will take over the voyager route to Maidenhead. 807s will be 7-9-11 cars I do not remember..

The trains they replace are usually 5s or 2x5s.

@@Jstransporthubto Maidenhead??? What r u on?

To begin with they will run in 5 or 10 car formations, 6 805s will be in service first while 6 221s temporarily remain in use. 14 805 services will run per day and 18 221 services will run per day

*Holyhead via North Wales Coast Line and Wrexham General, all via Chester

You’re gonna do whaaaat

Same, I thought he quit!

If you really want bog standard accommodation, WCR are still operating MK1 coaching stock.

Should matter it's meant to be wireless, as such its a point less wasteful tech

​@@damiendye6623 I mean I agree it's inefficient and slow, but I'm not sure it's pointless

Why we can never have amazing high speed rail in the UK is a mystery. Why do we get it so wrong?

A new MU speed profile is being introduced to allow non-tilt stock to reach 115/120 with some sections of 125. However, this speed profile hasn't been comissioned yet, so trains are currently running to PS speeds (max 110), with the exception of the Stour Line which has MU limits already.

There is work underway to raise the speeds for these trains. It should have been completed by now but it’s been delayed

Maybe Mk 3 or 4 But I Get You.

And Class 91 Or 86. With DVT

Your extremely delusional

it's 2024 not 1998

@@whatdoyoumeanbro4964 sure but in an alternate universe when privatization never happened

need the old style ramp to board

But you would pay less for a 3hr journey going the same distance? Most want passengers are willing to pay more to reduce the time spent on the train, those who want to pay too spend as long as possible on a train visit heritage railways.

Can I ask why is UK high speed rail such a joke? It's a shame, other countries have gotten it right. I've been watching videos of other services across the globe and while not all of them nail it, they're still miles more impressive in terms of speed and value for money. And of course overall design of the trains' interiors. I was actually a fan of the tilting mechanism on the pendolino units, but to now see it removed is quite the upset. Not sure why we always run into difficulty with acquiring new units. Everyone else seems to get it right.

@@azza5332 Who says the Pendolino is losing their tilt mechanism? Don't think so, though the TASS system is now getting on for +20 years old. Indeed, the Pendo's have just completed their mid life overhaul so will be around for many years to come. The OP rightly observes the new class 805 / 807 units replace class 221. The latter had tilt capability from new. The new Hitachi trains allegedly can do without tilt as they do have faster acceleration to their lower maximum speed enabling them to achieve similar end to end journey times - even if it is at some expense of track capacity on the UK's busiest main line. Maximum line speed speed and tilt is of course determined for passenger safety and comfort so as not to risk people being thrown off balance around the interior, not the ability of the train to remain on the rails. Then there's the constraint for Colour Light signalling imposing a blanket maximum of 125 mph line speed which in theory ETCS will address. For the line south of Warrington that's many years away. HS2 and whatever happens to this in future will be a current issue by then. It makes no sense at all ending High Speed running where the Tory buffoons have left it so I expect that will resolve eventually in some other guise.

It was cheaper for Avanti order non tilt trains, plus any Tilt order trains would taken far longer to build as no production line platform anymore for tilting pendolinos have redesign new fleet. Where as Hitachi fleet are tried n tested later generations of IEP only downside can't run at 125mph everywhere no tilt. Hitachi fleet production line still rolling so far easier to add new trains to the current build than start from scratch something totally new

@@rthoc71 Don't get me wrong the Voyagers needed to be replaced, and god it was terrible when they ran to Glasgow completely under the wires. Just worry about the impact on not just journey times, but pathing, no doubt these will spend the vast majority of their time on the fast lines, potentially holding up Pendos if they start to fall behind the WTT.

@@MylesHSG having ridden few times on tilt voyagers they weren't best thing switching between tilt mode to non tilt little uncomfortable at times, tilt system on pendolinos more smoother transitions. Acceleration is quick on 807 bit similar to issues we had on ECML when Mk4 91 full fleet ran main service Edinburgh to London at time hired 2 class 90's run with mk4 used on Leeds runs with 110mph it worked but only because 90 was superior in acceleration than 91 at the time. So getting back to WCML if 110mph Avanti Evro good accelerating only way work is restrict where they operate ie not North of Lancaster, where track speeds greater on straights be not lot diffence when hits tilting sections where anything slower will impact 390 schedules

There will be limited amounts of 125mph authorized in the near future as part of the new line speed profile, but there will be considerable amounts of 115 and 120 mph.

Refurbishment will not cure the bad ride quality, which is almost certainly smashing up the track at the same time. 26 metre vehicles with 17 metre bogie centres and 80 cm wheels is asking for trouble, as is the 1 metre gap between vehicles. A visit to Sims of Newport would be needed to fix these trains.

​@@henrybn14arlol scrappers torch and you have no services - "You'll be going nowhere" - Paul Tyreman

Hopefully there'll be a mid-life refurb due at some point...!

There was a period of a few years where a weird quirk of overlapping UK and EU regulations made it VERY difficult to design fire-regulation-compliant comfortable seats for the UK

@@audigexoh really. Interesting. But to be honest I like a little stiff seat, nicer for my back. So all these people who are complaining about it, know that lots of people actually like it

Sims Metals of Newport would make a good job of them.

​@@MrJimheeren Firm seats are fine if the profile is correct but they almost never are, even though the information has been available since the 1950s. They also mean that the ride quality must be good, but it is not.

That’s also because the service will stop at more stations. I’m sure you mean 390s

@@jay-xo9dx Well spotted, 390s indeed. I don't believe it's because of that, but simply because they are limited to 110mph, which on such a distance does make a difference.

@@91Durktheturkthe same timings can be achieved at 110. Look at the stopping pattern planned for these extra service to Liverpool and you’ll see they’re booked to stop at more stations

Agree, have travelled on Hitachis many times in Japan and they’re great. Difference is Japanese railways companies that care about comfort not just dividends

For Liverpool diagrams they will take 10 mins longer. But perhaps on some avanti routes with many intermediate stops, their acceleration might mean diagram times stay the same. Not sure though.

I believe it will be 5 minutes slower than the 390 once the new line speed profile is commissioned, something like 8-10 minutes slower currently

You can literally get them to move, if they refuse, get the train manager to move them.

@@thomasfy4yeah tried that - the woman said “no”. The train manager was awol too until halfway between Stafford and Crewe. By which point I had upgraded from the floor to one of those drop down seats outside the toilet courtesy of someone getting off at Stafford. Fun times!

Yeah Avanti wasn't around 21 years ago so this is all b s

​@@damiendye6623they mentionned 21 years LATER, not in 2003. They had this bad experience this year.