lol

also mass repair on a unit in a hold or die situation

I remember some flash-induced thread whining about SCVs being broken due to the extra hp, so I was surprised to see them ranked so low.

@@vertexedgeface3141 Absolutely, sometimes you see something as a racial thing and don't really consider that part of the unit but you're totally right, mass repair is an amazing ability that should definitely bump up SCVs, they are so much better than Drones and not as good as probes, for them to be closer to Drones than Probes is absolutely wrong imo. Artosis said that he could be convinced to move stuff but that it's broadly correct and I agree.

chat's idea of high tier is seeing how they work in mass on fastest possible map lmao

By "artosis logic" SCV is SSS tier, it used a lot in any match up and in any situation, regardless of who is your opponent or what is he doing.

Protons probably doesn't have an S tier unit. Totally agreed. And vulture competes for best unit in game. He's so biased his list isn't much better then chats b

Did you guys not listen when he said you got to look at the whole game? The op protoss units vs t are trash vs zerg. If it was pvt there would be plenty of S tier p units.

@@yellow6100 I listened. And he judged protoss based on his own biases. And he under states how broken vultures are. Probes have issues on defense. Probe drills are hilariously worse then drone and scv drills. Templars are a necessity based on how bad protoss units are and are a liability. Slow, weak, and mess up pathing of dragoons and speedlots. Did he tank another one Stank? I stopped watching after he confirmed probes and Templar are s rank.

Are you wasted? He put 3 zerg units, two terran units and the high templar in S-tier

@@hukllankanchis1575 I said Probe and High templar. I disagree with both. I stopped watching after that. ARE YOU WASTED?

no one really cared about your dono

Thank you

Thank you.

But you forgot the fact it is a terran unit.. and terran is trash for arty! hahaha

They only kill defilers (no one iraddiates high templars) with iraddiate and were it not so, zergs would crush terrans with dark swarm and plague since emp is nullified by consume. 2 cheap scourges insta kill a science vessel, feedback insta kills a vessel. Of course vessels have detection, otherwise terrans aftering using scans would need to build turrets everywhere the army is. Arbiters can easily dodge emps. Terrans need science vessels to survive.

@@hukllankanchis1575 People definitely irradiate HTs if they catch HTs out in the open.

Not S, but there is an argument for A. It gives enough overall utility in all match ups. Compare it to the other B units. Goliath, you'd rather not build unless you really need the anti-air. Where as if you can support the gas you will always have use for vessels. Even if it is just for detection and sight range for tanks. Arbiters are good, but you only need a few and more arbiters don't really increase their use. Vessels get better if you manage to retain their numbers. To the point where in TvZ, if Z can't kill them off and you get a high enough number, it is what wins you the game. The C tier marine and D tier medic can finish off a game with a high enough vessel count.

I can’t see S but I can totally see it going to A. E.M.P. and D-Matrix fucks up protoss. Also good for saving scans while keeping Obs/DT numbers low. I’m guessing Arty’s logic is It’s not used a lot in TvT, but I can see a future where people with enough AMP tanking tank shots with D-Matrix vultures or dropping a couple D-Matrix Vultures killing a whole mineral line as they tank shots.

Scan also said probe is S-tier

It was COMPLETELY different :)

Yeah he did it for the sc2 units. I don't think it made much difference anyway.

I don’t think it matters too much. Most people in chat seemed to be considering “best case scenario” for units opposed to how good/useful the unit is within the context of the meta.

Whatever, he is doing for the lolz anyway

Hydra deserved to be much higher.

yeah and then he can kinda average it.

I've had a lot of fun with it. Thanks for sharing, have a good one!

Super joke. It's B rank at best.

I think dragoons AI is holding it back from being A tier

Dragoons are clunky and really don't have that high of DPS in and of themselves against most units. They're good as cannon fodder and useful to compliment the other protons units but are trash when they're alone. Definitely not A tier

It's protoss main unit because protosss have nothing else to fulfill generalist role, there is no stalkers with blink, no immortals with their insane damage, no collossus to deal with spam reliably. Dragoon is used because it's all there is, doesn't make dragoon a good unit

Dragoons are dummy thick and stupid to boot. There’s a reason why they’re also ways paired with Lots AND high tech splash, because they’re useless without other units.

S tier units are always good and cost effective. To me, a tier units are also good, you never don't want them, there aren't other units for the same price that you would want other than s tier. For that reason, dragoons aren't quite S tier. They're basically... Ok filler units. No one is pumped that they have 12 dragoons. They'll do.

For sure- you can win games without ever making queen or dark archon, but ultra, and especially Corsair, have an essential role at a specific game phase in at least one match up. Maybe the real option is to push queen and dark archon down.

@@Materialist39 Yeah that's what I'm saying. Move them down one tier.

Yes it is based on how often units are used, and thats why drones are rank D. I mean they are shitty situational units, you dont even think about building or using them in any matchup.

I wish creep colonies had the nydus canal ability to make other creep colonies, woukd save a ton of drones and zerg woukd be able to defend itself

mostly they are used against terran to insta kill tanks with broodlings

I think its safe to say sc2 queen is a different unit... The only similarity they have is the name

Workers should be ranked individually probe best, then scv and drone

Nah he doesn't rank workers by how much they're used because you literally HAVE to use them in every game. Probe is S because it's tanky, heals itself, it's fast, and doesn't need to stick around or be consumed to build. Probes are extremely time efficient. SCV is not as time efficient but still better than the drone and they're built like a brick shithouse. Drones are slow, are consumed when building, and the least time efficient plus they're weaker in combat than Probes or SCVs.

Nah. It’s definitely by how good/powerful they are in the context of the meta/game phase. First couple minutes Probe is king. They outrange every tier one except Marines, they can build while doing other things, building blocks and offensive canons are something none of the other workers can AND they’re super nimble. Even just the way workers build shows the difference in strength. Probe stops for a sec, SCV spends the whole time there and Deong literally dies for you.

@@mee7er yes, the probe does all that, but this tier list idea is flawed. Arty wasnt basing units on how strong they are in specific moments, except the probe apparently. Some of these are S or A tier units in the right context. The science vessel is used in every single matchup to great effect, for example

@@skykur but science vessel is terran unit, and terrans cant live without whine.

But they lose to sim city and don’t deal any damage to any armored units.

@@mee7er they cost 75 minerals and come with 3 free nukes ...I mean spider mines lol- definitely the most cost effective unit in the game, but just S tier

He put a lot of importance on the number of matchups. Like Corsairs are MU defining in PvZ, but you'll practically never see one in the other matchups. That's sorta where he's going with the Marine, and I can sorta stand behind this tier list for that reason. You also can't let the perception of what the Marine does in SC2 taint how you might perceive the Marine in BW, this is still a game where in a lot of matches, the Barracks is floating off scouting once the factories are online.

@@Furycrab Yes I'm talking about broodwar :D I can't count the times I have been owned by bio pushes. Sure I'm a terrible starcraft player but anyway.

I mean Marines are literally only useful for like... the first 5 minutes of a TVZ. After that they're dead weight. You don't even really use them in other matchups.

@@danlorett2184 huh.. What if zerg goes mutas. But ya same reason he didnt put ultras higher. Onlyome matchup.

@@danlorett2184 You biased against marines

Yeah and the works are always S tier cause you always make lots of them. Not really a great way to measure a units strength.

Thankyou for uploading this!

Ikr, putting Mutas in S teir even though their only usage outside of ZvZ is a narrow time frame before vessels come out and turrets come out in critical mass JUST to delay the Terran push in time to make a 3rd. I don’t think he realizes just how cost inefficient mutas are in combat even with extreme micro. Literally anything that can fight back other than hydras, scouts, wraiths and goliaths without range that aren’t tagged with plague or acid spores SLAUGHTER mutas cost for cost

Valks are fine.

@@phaenon4217 Valks need a ground attack.

Valks should have a mode where it switches from attacking air and attacking ground

And if it switches to gound attacks then it should only target a circular area while being stillstanding and it should shoot a beam that does a lot of singletarget damage

Keep your hands off BW

"early TvZ"

You can't say a unit is really good if it's only really good in one match up.

@@abstractdaddy1384 why?

@@amai2307 Because that means it's bad in the other 2 matchups. A unit that's good a third of the time and bad the other two thirds of the time is, and here's the key word, OVERALL not a good unit.

viability seems a fair standard

I wonder what Scan thinks about the list however.

Queens are rather niche units, but they usually show up most frequently in ZvT. Mass queen transitions can absolutely annihilate siege tanks with spawn broodling (its 9 range is 1 greater than guardians and charon booster goliaths). Parasite is good on science vessels too and ensnare can take the punch out of marine+medic balls & decloak wraiths. Sometimes they show up in ZvP where broodlings are used to nuke high templar. they also *sometimes* show up in ZvZ when things hit a weird transition phase, ensnare (-50% movespeed and ~20% attack speed) can ruin mutalisks. Queens are just as fast as corsairs or scourge. Their issues are cost, research time and micro. Spawn broodling costs 150 energy, so you need to make queens and keep them alive and hidden for about 2mins 15 seconds to have them each spawn broodlings once.

if the sole criteria were "viability", then yeah probably

You can't sneak in BCs against a Protoss that is playing a straight up pressure macro game, they either break in before you get enough tanks to defend or they get the mind control with dark archon. Even just mass goon is good against BCs. While Queen's energy cost is a lot, the fact it oneshots any organic ground unit makes it a direct counter against Terran Mech plays in TvZ.

Observers don't have shit on Overlords. Observers are fragile, easily sniped if seen and slow without upgrades... and they're in a race without much detection they also require their own special production tech. Overlords are durable, cheap, built anyways, have no tech tree requirement, don't cost supply and also function to facilitate drops. Being invisible by default isn't a big upside when your opponents have better and more convenient detection. You should check some of the recent PvZ meta on certain maps where lurker+hydra just *slaughters* protoss if they have the high ground.

@@Syfa Except there are always counters to all units and and that includes overlords being massacred by marines, corsairs and dragoons specially if they're not upgraded. I'm not even saying observers are better than overlords. Also their invisibility can be so undetected because they don't really attack. They can stay in one position and players can often be unaware it's there. And sometimes their colors blends in the background like camouflage despite being detected.

Observers are basically the worst detection in the game. Unlike scans and overlords, they cost supply. Unlike science vessel they don't have any good support abilities. Yet you're paying 75 gas per observer. To make matters worse they require their own tech structure. The only reason toss use them is because they're the only mobile detection they have.

@@taragnor if you successfully put on observed in your opponents base, you can see what they're doing the whole time without them noticing and also, its 25 minerals makes up for the 75 gas. And what about the science vessels having 225 gas? I mean obviously they are used as spell casters more than detectors but if you use them as detectors alone, they would be the worst.

Care to elaborate? Genuinely curious.

Share your genius with us progamer

Yeah ling is A rank unit for sure. It's even stronger with upgrades but it pretty much rules the map and costs nothing.

@@alexfriedman2047 Its one of the main reasons why I choose Zerg as my go to race when I used to play Starcraft online. Plus, they were the only Starcraft race I was good at playing with, they have the best units.

@@LordMalice6d9 Terran units are good a f too. I play protoss because I always played Protoss but Protoss units suck. None of their Units are S rank lol. HT and Arb are pretty good though. I play a lot of SC1 but I'm only like 1800 MMR. Not 2100 or whatever Artosis is.

@@alexfriedman2047 Protoss units are very mixed bag. Protoss have at least 3 units I would say definitely qualify as A tier units at most, maybe S. High Templar, probe and Zealot.

Also, Corsairs and Ultras aren’t D rank… should be C at least. Arty dies enough to Ultras to know better 😊.

yeah I wasnt a fan of how this was made either lol I just skipped to arty's actual list.

But then you miss the donation messages :D

Dark templar B or A for sure can do damage if not scanned or scouted also arbiter 100% A tier as well

@@jasonbonilla4915 I thought for a while. Yes, I guess, you are right. In terms of usability Dark Templars are closer to Marines, Goliaths and Lurkers, then to Wraiths, Ultras and Archons. Also feels like Cariers and BCs are both vT specialists with occasional use in vZ, so I demoted the Carrier a bit.

@@vasjaforutube1 yea if you run carriers or BC and you get countered you basically lose the game so its high risk which does drop it in the tier list

Important in every matchup, and they have some of the highest DPS in the game -- indisputably THE highest with adrenal glands.

@@mightyNosewings My issue with zerglings is against terran and protoss (especially terran) they often just end up dying before they can do anything unless they're supported by another unit, and often just end up being a buffer for the more valuable units. I'm a noob though so I'd really like to learn how to make better use of them.

Cheap, low supply, fastest building wrecking crew, road blockers for fleeing enemies, great meat shields for late games, most efficient consume meal for defilers. A lot of utilities

@Renzo Alarcón Even with max upgrades?