Yeah, but you forgot to tell him that you sent him a right-handed gent saw, and he appears to be left-handed... LOL I'm going to work on buying better saws (not the ultra-cheap ones with hardened teeth), so that I can sharpen them myself, and then start sharpening them and setting them to fine-tune them. Thanks to both of you, although I have to wonder if there will be a "Round 2" video, after the $20 saw has been properly set???

I've really been enjoying your content lately Shawn, thanks for putting in the effort.

@@testuser3167 shhhh.... lets let him keep thinking the set was off and not tell him it was a right handed gent.

I enjoyed the video explaining tooth geometry for a dovetail saw.

Not unless someone else makes it because I'm going to reset it and then give it away. I doubt anyone would notice a difference anyway. Its very subtle and only because I'm such a saw snob did I even mention it.

I love Shawns videos.

If you spent money on a premium saw that isn't ready out of the box, send it back.

@@RenaissanceWW Sending it back isn't always the answer, the next one will probably be the same as the last. The rake, set, and fleam might not be what I prefer and adjustments need to be made. My point was, I would rather have 10 good working saws than one pretty saw. You can get just as good if not better 100 year old used saw and tune it up for a fraction of the price.

@Pat Mahon Name and shame is not my style- You can't/shouldn't shame "differences" in a users skill levels or a manufactures set, rake or fleam choice.

I did that with one of these cheap saws. I guess I need to learn to sharpen it though.

What? Lol

No reason to feel bad. I like being able to support some of these saw makers when I can and I do use all my saws. I suppose even if they were gathering dust that's one thing. I've sold or given away more dovetail saws than I own currently because they weren't getting used anymore. These days every one I own is tuned to a specific purpose and the hang is a major part of that.

I add fleam just as you would on a crosscut saw. I don't know any other way to do it. If you added it only on one side then I imagine you would throw off the balance of the saw much like setting too much to one side.

Bontz saws

Bontz saws are wonderful.

@@RenaissanceWW Thank you.

I use a Crown and when I get past set I get a new one. Vision and temper hindrance. I use three inch six sided jeweler file from Contenti 231-541-4.

I did do a video on it as well as an entire build series in The Hand Tool School. Check out kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nNaBo9WDyNLHo6c.html or visit my site at www.renaissancewoodworker.com/rww190-the-joinery-bench/

@@RenaissanceWW Wonderful! Thank you, Shannon.

Its possible I miscounted but that 1 point won't make much difference. I still find it too fine. As far as converting I'm not sure how easy that would be. I've never taken a Gents handle off to see what the "tang" looks like. Plus with the saw plate so short already, nesting part of it inside a pistol grip handle would lost at least 2" from the usable sawing length.

@@RenaissanceWW gonna give it a try. Traced out a handle on Cherrywood. I think my Crown is 10" long though?

Not directly no. I have minimal experience with Cosman's saws. Just on the the floor of a show. I'm not a fan of the progressive pitch and anything that makes sharpening it more complicated. Not sure if Rob is still adding those things to his saws anymore. I think the takeaway from this video should be that you will find just about all the saws perform the same and will give you good looking joinery when they are sharp and tuned well. we are blessed to have so many good brands to choose from these days and I think you will be hard pressed to find any of the premiums saws out there that will be a bad buy.

@@RenaissanceWW Thanks for the reply!

its all a spectrum and while fleam is a defining characteristic it is not uncommon to see a saw designed for rip cuts with a few degrees of fleam. Likewise many a crosscut saw will have a more aggressive rake. Think about it more how the geometry can be tailored to the desired cut and less about labeling the saw into a box.

I can't say that I have such a wide breadth of experience to be able to pick a brand at all those price points but I do think that for anything under $100 by pick would be a Japanese Dozuki. Perhaps the Veritas dovetail saw but I still prefer a Dozuki over that particular saw. Between $100 and $200 though it would be Lie Nielsen. Used that saw for many years and never had a complaint other than the handle not being a perfect fit. But that's to be expect for a mass produced tool.

@@RenaissanceWW That's interesting Shannon, in your experience do the straight handles on Dozuki's perform better than the straight handles on gent saws?

Yes because they are longer but also because the pull action changes the game completely on how the handle functions

Bontz saws

They're fine. Get some files, a means of anchoring blade and Sharpen and go.

There was a time not long ago when LN was the premium brand and Veritas didn't actually have saws. LN these days I consider to be mid range on pricing but I used their dovetail saw for at least 6 years. Great saw where it fails today in comparison is in the handle not being a precise a fit. But that is to be expected of a company that mass produced their saws. Just like Disston the handle will always be a bit bigger. Overall the geometries of a LN saw are "vanilla". Veritas spiced things up a bit with the composite back but I find the hang angle of a Veritas saw and the handle shape to be not good. I'd rather use their Gent style handle because the pistol handle interferes with starting the saw and usually I have to add more rake to the teeth to get it to start smoothly. Still both makers produce excellent saws. LN will be good right out of the box but I do not think it will be your last saw if you continue to cut dovetails by hand. You will outgrow it as your skill level increases. Veritas to me is not an out of the box ready saw. But look at the price tag, why would it be?

Here again though, as this video illustrates, a well tuned and sharp saw will produce the same quality of joint regardless of the price. There are some creature comforts that come from higher end saws but cutting good dovetails does not hinge on the type of saw being used.

actually in teaching kids (12-15) most struggled less with the straight handle. I have no explanation why.

what's that expression about polishing a turd? LOL Its a fine line sometimes when you start throwing more and more labor into a tool to make it better vs just buying a better tool to start with. If nothing else you gained great experience in learning how to super charge the saw.

No doubt I prefer a longer saw with a more shallow plate but its just didn't seem to be a fair comparison to use a 12" saw against an 8" saw especially with the pitch disparity.

Yeah the camera is now more than 10 years old and an upgrade is in my future. Actually looking at my raw footage and my locally saved version of this video, I think it is an encoding artifact on the KZfaq side.

@@RenaissanceWW Makes some sense. Haven't seen it before in your videos, but I don't watch as many as I used to so don't know if it's happened before. Good thing is, it was worth sitting through for the content.

I think it was metric, also

Really? I thought I made a pretty clear distinction about what you are paying for with the higher priced saws. I definitely can point to the features/elements that contribute to the prices. Sorry if that didn't come through.

It's that 100% oxygen free copper I'm telling ya.

I think terrible is a bit harsh. Sorry you think so.

Yes, terrible may be harsh, but I've come to expect a certain level of video quality from you and this wasn't that. Love the content though. I recently bought a Veritas dovetail saw and this video was a huge help. Thanks.

I didn't notice the "quality" of the video; I ewas entirely focused on the excellent quality of the instruction. My 2 cents.

what's wrong with the sound? I didn't hear anything off other than the hum of the AC unit outside my window which I can't do anything about.