Agreed. CPE Bach is under-rated and overshadowed although in his day he was forward thinking and unorthodox. Mozart held CPE in the highest regard. His famous remark "Bach is the father, we are the children" referred to CPE and not to JS.

Surprising considering how much influence he had over the later 18th century.

David Griffiths You are correct to a degree - Mozart rated very specific and particular aspects of CPE, as did Haydn more generally without doubt, and later, Beethoven; however, not a single note of Mozart could ever be mistaken for anything written by Emanuel Bach. Mozart was prone to saying or writing this sort of hyperbole sometimes and the ‘father/children’ metaphor was repeated in his dedication of the six quartets to Haydn. It is actually quite difficult to understand why Mozart said what he did at all; assuming that by ‘Bach’ he was referring to CPE, it only really makes sense if he was speaking about his ground-breaking manual on keyboard playing - the Versuch, his keyboard works, and his playing alone. Whether the quote originates from the Sunday morning mainly Handel/JS Bach sessions Mozart attended from the early 1780’s, or one of the entirely spurious and now discredited 19th century sources, the whole quotation is a nonsense if applied to CPE generally. The only real link between CPE and any other composer- apart from the massively influential Versuch - is with Haydn who devoured his works as a young man, both the Versuch, and the associated sonatas, both of which Beethoven was still using in the early nineteenth century. Additionally, Haydn told his early biographers Griesinger and Dies that CPE had told him that he was ‘...the only composer who fully understood [CPE’s] teachings and how to make proper use of them’. Unlike with Mozart, you can see and hear clear traces of CPE in style, compositional technique and occasionally in the music of Haydn itself, something that Beethoven picked up too as explained, either directly, or via Haydn. Haydn was also fulsome in his praise of Emanuel Bach to all his early biographers; he was the only composer he ever acknowledged as a mentor. The admiration between CPE and Haydn was mutual; CPE clearly knew and appreciated some of Haydn’s keyboard works, and the Op 33 string quartets for example. CPE went into print to defend Haydn from some North German critics and to praise ‘...the good Herr Haydn...I must believe that this worthy man, whose works continue to give me much pleasure, is surely as much my friend, as I his.’ (Unpartheiische Korrespondent, Hamburg, September 1785). On his return from his second London visit, Haydn called to see CPE, not knowing that he had already died - actually an astonishing circumstance that this news had not reached either Vienna or London by 1795 - CPE had died in 1788! There is no real connection between Mozart and CPE at all beyond the frankly ridiculous quote you mention, especially when it is taken out of context, and then applied to CPE generally. There are more a more substantial links with Versuch, and Mozart did across some of his works at Baron van Swieten’s sessions - most notably arranging an oratorio - and was interested in CPE’s fugues. The well known quotation was in fact, hardly a surprising thing for Mozart to say as he was talking about probably the most famous North German musician of the age, someone with an international reputation. CPE Bach is quite an acquired taste, and like most people who have contributed to this thread, I enjoy his very personal, idiosyncratic and quirky style. Those interested should look up Dr Burney’s comments on CPE, written after he visited the composer’s home, like almost every contemporary, Burney was hugely impressed.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 That's a great comment. I investigated CPEB because I'd read that my favourite composer, Haydn, held him in high regard. Haydn said (allegedly) towards the end of his life that CPEB was the only composer from whom he could still learn something. CPE Bach is certainly an aquired taste. These works here are among his most approachable. We can see how he influenced Haydn and that influence was one of the catalysts causing Haydn to develop the symphony into the greatest musical art form. I think a love of Haydn and CPE Bach are, I reckon, things that go more readily together than any alleged relationship between Haydn and Mozart.

pigsbishop99 Thanks for your comment; one or two subsequent thoughts. Haydn was almost the polar opposite of Mozart in that he was influenced throughout his career by virtually no other composer; everyone is familiar with the ‘...I was forced to be original’ quotation. However, Emanuel Bach, as clearly stated by Haydn to both Griesinger and Dies, was to some degree an exception to this - they were two of the first biographers of Haydn who both visited him regularly during his last years gathering information for their biographies of the composer. Haydn was effusive about his debt to CPE and about how much he learnt from him as a young man - the young Haydn studied CPE’s manual on keyboard writing and the associated sonatas avidly. There are aspects of CPE’s thoughts which are evident in Haydn’s work but are almost impossible to find in Mozart. As I have written elsewhere, Beethoven was still using these same materials at the start of the 19th century as we know from his pupil Czerny that he was told by Beethoven to get a copy and study it. Both Griesinger and Dies report that Haydn told them that ‘...as soon as his musical output became known in print, Bach (ie CPE) noted with pleasure that he could count Haydn among his pupils. Afterwards, he paid the latter (ie Haydn) the flattering compliment ‘that he was the only one to understand his writings completely and to know how to make use of them’. This I think is the accurate version of the quotation to which you referred; it is taken from Dies whose little book is arranged by the thirty visits he paid to Haydn between 1805 - 1808, (this comment about CPE comes from the 4th visit). Dies also describes Haydn recalling buying the Versuch, and rather memorably describes it as ‘...the winning ticket among so many blanks’. As you obviously have an interest in Haydn, Griesinger and Dies, who wrote two contemporary biographies, both published almost immediately after Haydn’s death are available in an excellent English translation in Vernon Gotwalls ‘ Haydn: Eighteenth Century Gentleman and Genius’ - essential reading, though I think unfortunately, currently out of print. Regarding Mozart and Haydn; Mozart was rather more aware of Haydn than Haydn was of Mozart before they met in Vienna probably from 1781. There is extant evidence of Mozart annotating for example an Opus 17 quartet (written in 1771), and modelling some specific early works on those of Haydn; additionally, it is clear that Mozart knew Haydn’s piano sonatas Hob. XVI:21-26 published in 1774 and Hob. XVI 27-32 published in 1776. Mozart’s symphony 25 is clearly modelled on Haydn 39. When Mozart and Haydn did meet, both were established, mature composers and the cross-fertilisation of ideas is highly complex and very different to Mozart’s earlier influences from composers such as JC Bach or the Mannheim composers. The most frequently used example of a ‘relationship’ is Mozart’s six quartets dedicated to Haydn as a response to Haydn’s Opus 33, but the most striking thing is that whilst aspects of compositional technique have been learnt, the quartets are very clearly Mozart, not Haydn. Likewise, Haydn’s Opus 50 which followed Mozart’s six - whilst incorporating one or two Mozartian chromatic slithers - are in fact quintessential Haydn, and are as far away from Mozart as could be. This has already gone on too long! I do think there are links between these two ‘A’ list composers, but they are different from any ‘influences’ from other composers - and I agree that they are sometimes overstated. This is because these two were of such an extraordinary stature that they could really only learn from each other, something I think they recognised mutually, and was a very particular reason for their uniquely close and genuine friendship.

I think his music is very readily accessible. Which is not to imply it is simple, light or unsophisticated. Quite the contrary. I am sorry I am only getting to know it a bit now.

Keine jedermanns Musik, mit intellektuellem Touch.

I would agree for the most part, he was very unique, although I do hear a lot of Vivaldi in his works.

@@mosthatedminnesotan An interesting notion; to my ears, CPE’s North German empfindsamer Stil and /or galant early-Classical style is a million miles away from Vivaldi’s very Italian - or rather Venetian - late-Baroque. Any examples to back your ‘…I do hear a lot of Vivaldi’ in CPE ?

@@elaineblackhurst1509 check out Vivaldi R.201 ( Jaap Schröder). All the late violin concertos of vivaldi would set the fundament for the empfindsamer stil. With an upcoming fighting orchestra, separating itself from the basso continuo. So you have to hear: R.201, RV330 and RV333! Also in some of the Pisendel and Dresden concerti you could hear this i think but not sure.

Totally agree! As far as I am concerned, there is no Bach but CPE (I never listen to JS's music, except when enhanced by some other composer, like Webern), Even CPE's harpsichord music is never boring.

Barry Malkin CPE Bach is the leading exponent and the most important composer of the North German ‘empfindsamer Stil’; this ‘Empfindsamkeit’ aesthetic is not the same thing as the essentially Viennese (or South German if you like) ‘sturm und drang’ though superficially, there are some shared characteristics, most notably that they were both attempts to move away from the lightweight, easy galant style of music common around many parts of Europe at the time. The simplest guide to the differences I can offer you is to think of empfindsamer Stil as being about *inner* sensitivity, whilst sturm und drang is more about *outward* gesture. CPE’s ideas of sensibility, sensitivity, intimacy, highly rhetorical performance, and musical expression to move the player and thus the listener are clearly explained in his Versuch - Essay on the True Art of Keyboard Playing - Part 1 published in 1753, Part 2 in 1762. These characteristics are also evident in much of his keyboard music in particular but also in many other works. The e minor symphony written in 1756 being a good example (Wq 177-strings only, Wq 178 with added flutes, oboes and horns); this work clearly pre-dates any known ‘sturm und drang’ works by some years. Dr Burney’s well-known description of an evening spent with CPE pretty much sums it up in words what it was like to sit and listen to a brilliant keyboard player performing in this style. Representative works in the ‘sturm und drang’ style would include: Haydn Symphonies 26, 39, 44, 45, 49, 52; most of Vanhal’s minor key symphonies written around 1770 (g1, g2 for example); the one-off attempts by JC Bach (Opus 6 No 6), and Mozart (Symphony 25, K183); and a string of works by other composers - Dittersdorf for example - in a variety of keys. All these works clearly demonstrate the ‘outward gesture’ to which I referred, whilst remaining powerful and - to varying degrees - profound works; think the opening of Haydn 44, 45, or Mozart 25. I would not include any works in any genre by CPE Bach on the above list. CPE is an interesting but highly individual composer, he is very difficult to label accurately; his aesthetic and perceived ‘oddities’ are not always understood, and he can be something of an acquired taste - hope this explanation is helpful.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 a

ant the ogue concerts and sonatas ... 🙂

So nice of you!

el primer beethoven, dijo alguno, acertadamente ...

@@theopaopa1 …è direi, assolutamente no.

Gracias.

C'est qui cete musicien

You’re not out of it, but are trying I think to make sense of a highly individual composer who is extremely difficult to pin down. 1. Mozart and CPE Bach come from different musical planets; despite being contemporaries, they have almost nothing in common. 2. Beethoven comes from a different age, but essentially, CPE’s empfindsamer Stil is about inner sensitivity, whereas Beethoven’s post-Classical music is more about outward gesture. 3. You needed to mention Haydn; CPE said that Haydn ‘…was the only composer who understood my teachings properly and knew how to make use of them’. 4. Mozart’s music has a powerful sense of forward momentum (to re-phrase your ‘…more dynamic’) - often more so even than Haydn; this often derives from time signatures that are for example in barred or cut common time (4/4 but played as two-in-a-bar). This feature is I think one of the things Haydn learned from his close contact and friendship with Mozart after the latter moved to Vienna in 1781. You may come across some of my other comments and replies - including in this thread - which you might find helpful, if so, you will not remain ‘…out of it’.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 LOL... I would prefer to not be TOO out of it. I have heard very little of Haydn. Maybe I'll try some this weekend. I am a rock & roll generation guy but love the more symphonic styles of ELO and the Moody Blues and a few of the BeeGees (try them - BeeGees yon Odessa album, but an album cut here or there). I am selective, but CPE hit me in a good spot, and I haven't listened in a while. Maybe some of CPE's this next week, too. I used to dislike Papa Bach, but I earned from a first chair celloist about his Bach's cello pieces. Thanks for the suggestions!

@@stevegarcia3731 Just spotted this, so sorry for the late reply. If you wish to investigate Haydn a little more, then be selective; his first works date from 1749, the last from the 19th century, so in short, without a plan, there’s simply too much. If you enjoy the empfindsamer Stil of CPE Bach, try Haydn from his ‘sturm und drang’ period c.1765-1773 from which all the works listed below date. I would suggest: 1a) Minor key symphonies - Symphonies 26 39 44 45 49 52 1b) Major key symphonies - Symphonies 35 38 41 42 43 46 47 48 50 51 58 59 65 2. String quartets Opus 20 (1772). 3. Piano sonatas in A flat (Hob. XVI:46), and c minor (Hob. XVI:20). 4. Stabat Mater in g minor (Hob. XXbis). Hope that’s useful, and I would suggest is a better plan than random lucky dips which though likely to be rewarding, they will not enhance your understanding of the composer.

More Dynamic? Sure. More melodic than Mozart? Hell no

Yes, veey high quality

I was wondering!

ur out of your mind , not even close. to prove a point givre metal player a chart of this

@Steven Moore i think not, as a musician myself, it seem that it"s origins began with garage bands banging on pot and pans , so u need to study musicology to get a complete understanding of the subject...heavy metal is just a bunch of bs noise, no substance, form or structure. no way or even close to any of the Bach families Master Works. as a matter of fact it would have given them indigestion, migraines, leading to the heavy metal player being beheaded

lol that would be Vivaldi if you ask me. But, yeah, CPE can rock it out too!

Out of context, this non-contemporaneous purported comment by Mozart - if true - is as meaningless as it is misleading, and is little more than clickbait. I have explained why extensively elsewhere if interested.

@Kelly Fischer dude because you don't think his music sound appealing to your ears doesn't mean that every little piece of assumption you resort to to take bach down should be validated, when there's plenty of other real objective truth that consolidates for and even denies whatever you consider factual truth.

Bach had 21 children,with quite a few began composing on a regular basis..

Me too and here we can heard the GENIUS OF BAch familly

È vero, Mozart è stato influenzato da JC Bach, ma Haydn - non Mozart - è stato influenzato da CPE Bach. C’è quasi nulla di CPE Bach nella musica di Mozart.

​@@elaineblackhurst1509You are wrong. Mozart was influenced by CPE. It doesn't matter if it comes out in Mozart or not but we know that Mozart greatly admired CPE' music and wrote to his father Leopold that he collects CPE's music and particularly his fugues.

⁠​⁠@@Ziad3195 I will be extremely interested to read your list of musical examples of Mozart’s Viennese high-Classical style being influenced* by CPE Bach’s North German empfindsamer Stil in order to amend my ‘…wrong’ views on this matter. (Excluding of course the Versuch which was one of the most important, indeed seminal works of its type amongst many published in the 18th century - Quantz on the flute, Leopold Mozart on the violin et cetera). Mozart’s interest in asking his father to send him fugues by different composers was part of a wider study of counterpoint, not of CPE Bach specifically. Every composer of the age admired CPE Bach, including specifically composers of the stature of Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven, along with others such as the music historian Dr Burney; Mozart’s much quoted out-of-context remark is not really noteworthy at all, indeed if not referencing specifically the Versuch, is inexplicable. * Influence is actually a very over-used word; most great composers study, learn, assimilate and enrich their *own* styles from what they come across rather than be ‘…influenced by x, y, or z’.

Mozart said of CPE, "He is the father, we are the children".

Musically CPE Bach comes from a different planet to Mozart; it’s difficult to think of two contemporary composers with so little in common, and you most certainly can *not* hear Mozart ‘…round the corner’. CPE in essence is too original and unique to sound like anyone else, and is one of the most easily identifiable of composers after as little as four bars. CPE is marginally closer to Haydn in some respects, a composer whom CPE said ‘…was the only composer who understood my teachings properly, and knew how to make use of them’.

@@TheGloryofMusic Meaningless clickbait when taken out of context. If referring to CPE’s Versuch, then it makes some sense; taken generally it is absurd as there is barely a single note of the music of Mozart which shows any evidence whatsoever of the paternity of CPE Bach.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 I don't understand your point. I was merely quoting what Mozart said. In any case, Charles Rosen called CPE's music "proto-Classical", and it is certainly that. Perhaps you are missing the forest for the trees. There can be a great deal of difference between two composers' personal manners and more general stylistic features. Mozart and Haydn, for example, are both Classical composers in technique, but very different aesthetically.

⁠​⁠​⁠@@TheGloryofMusic Thank you for your reply, and to explain further. The well-known Mozart quotation makes 100% sense if put into the context of CPE Bach’s massively influential Versuch - his manual on the true art of keyboard playing, his keyboard playing, and the associated sonatas. (The reported comment by the way was not contemporaneous but was reported about forty years later; it therefore has significant question marks surrounding its veracity). The Versuch was the foundation of modern keyboard technique, and the starting point of all future manuals; out of this context, Mozart’s comment drops to making 0% sense as there is almost no evidence of CPE’s paternity in anything at all in Mozart. CPE Bach is not proto-Classical, he is a Classical* composer; his characteristic empfindsamer Stil music is a unique part of the Classical period, as is sturm und drang, Rococo, Galante, the high-Classical of Mozart, ditto Haydn, and much else. Rosen’s ground-breaking The Classical Style was published in 1971. Over the past 50-plus years, huge steps in the development of scholarship, complete editions, complete recordings, the Internet, et cetera, have transformed the landscape and left some parts of Rosen looking dated and in need of revision; nobody today is calling CPE proto-Classical, and neither would Rosen. Part of the reason listeners struggle to comprehend and neatly label CPE is that his entire musical life was spent in firstly Berlin (1738-1767) working in the rather peculiar court of Frederick the Great filling in chords playing harpsichord continuo in the endless cycle of Quantz flute concerti, then at Hamburg until his death in 1788 as director of the city’s church music; neither of these posts were mainstream, indeed they were so non-mainstream that that the most travelled of composers Mozart never made it to either city during CPE’s lifetime. Haydn and Mozart I agree demonstrate the richness and variety within the Classical period (c.1750-1800), as does CPE Bach and any number of other composers in exactly the same way that JS Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, Rameau et al do in the earlier Baroque period. Hope that clarifies things as I see them. * CPE Bach wrote Classical symphonies not Baroque suites; he uses Classical sonata form not Baroque binary form; he writes in a Classical sensitive empfindsamer Stil with wide ranging dynamics not intricate Baroque formulas and terraced dynamics; his Versuch is a manual on modern Classical ie post-Baroque keyboard technique; et cetera.

Lamento decirte que no es el mismo bach, es su hijo.

Ademas, esta musica ya no es considerada barroca, es el clasicismo... CPE Bach contribuyo enormemente al desarollo de la musica de este periodo.

?

Some interesting points but I really must challenge some of the complete misinformation in your comment. Whilst CPE’s Versuch was a fundamental basis of modern - ie post-Baroque - keyboard playing, and was certainly noted by Mozart and almost every other living composer, however, to suggest that Mozart ‘took inspiration’ from CPE is absurd. Mozart K485 is musically from a different planet to anything from CPE Bach; whatever can you hear to link the two composers in this work ? (If anything, I hear perhaps traces of JC Bach, or Le nozze di Figaro). ‘Schumann considered him [CPE Bach] a great composer’. Wherever did you find this nonsense ? Schumann had no time for CPE at all, he didn’t understand his music either. Schumann wrote of CPE Bach that: ‘As a creative musician, he remained *very far* [my emphasis] behind his father’. That said, you’re right about the links between CPE and Haydn which were acknowledged by both composers, and also that CPE had a unique musical personality; in fact, I would suggest it was simply too unique ever to be widely influential. CPE is a Classical composer, though there are inevitable traces of the Baroque - though the same is true of Mozart and Haydn sometimes. CPE could be both conservative and galant in his more public works, but in his more private works, he could also be quite modern with his very personal and challenging empfindsamer Stil compositions.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 Alfred Einsyein ( cousin of the scientist) considered K 485 an hommage to KPE Bach. Of course according to the words of Mozart himself " we make things in a different way but he (KPEB) is the father " meaining that in keyboard technique he and not only he appreciated his suggestions

@@andreagriseri7656 Some people consider the earth to be flat, but that does not mean that it is flat; Einstein (sic) is wrong. You’re right about the keyboard technique which as I said in my reply, every composer of the age and beyond was indebted to CPE Bach; my objection was to the absurd misuse of the word ‘inspiration’.

I just noted a man with donkey ears. Maybe is an illustration from a literary resource?

@Brilliant Classics

Totally different to Mozart who is completely irrelevant to any discussion of these symphonies.

kabeer It’s CPE Bach’s highly personal, North German ‘emdfindsamer Stil’. Check out this German expression along with the closely related ‘Empfindsamkeit’.

I have a feeling its quite intentional. I like to think of it as a sort of experimentation similar to more modern classical music. In my mind someone said that he can't make a symphony based on repeating the same note again and again and slowly go up in a scale. I have absolutely no proof for this though. Again just makes it that much more intriguing for me.

That's a very good point. He was an important bridge between two eras and he had the heavy duty of experimenting. I enjoy the intro more now. it kinda makes him Human. He was doing his Philip Glass thing. I have to say there is something incomplete about his music.

Disagree with every single word of your comment which unfortunately is as inaccurate as to fact as it is erroneous in judgement; I offer an alternative viewpoint. Not a single note of these four symphonies can be described by the highlighted word ‘Rococo’; they are highly original, and powerful works created with little regard to difficulty or popularity, and written in CPE’s very personal empfindsamer Stil. I could suggest twenty adjectives or phrases to describe these works: 1. Calculated instability 2. Extrovert 3. Wild 4. Unpredictable 5. Wide range of dynamics 6. Contrast 7. Frequent mood changes 8. Bold dissonances 9. Harmonic disjunctions 10. Deceptive cadences 11. Progressive 12. Original 13. Expressive 14. Pathos 15. Passion 16. Sensitive 17. Intimate 18. Rhetorical 19. Tense 20. Dynamic 21. Et cetera. ‘Elegance’ would not make a list of 100. Depends what you mean exactly by ‘drama’, but these symphonies lose nothing in comparison with directly comparable Classical works, nor the Baroque of the previous age. Hope that’s helpful to yourself, or anyone else passing by these fascinating and fantastic works.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 spot on! CPE Bach is at the forefront of the Sturm und Drang movement and most of these works are classic examples of that. Also, he is a person who transitioned between baroque and classical.

@@vinniecoelho CPE was at the forefront of the reaction to the the lightweight rococo galenterie found in much of the music of the second half of the 18th century, but it is to be found in his very personal North German empfindsamer Stil, not in the essentially Viennese sturm und drang which whilst superficially sharing some similar features - such as replacing elegant galant mannerism with dynamism - they are actually very different. There were other reactions as well, many arising from Gluck’s seminal and shocking Don Juan (1761) in particular, and the original Italian Orfeo (1762). In very short measure, empfindsamer Stil is about inner sensitivity, whilst sturm und drang is about outward gesture; the musical rhetoric of the two are different. That said, there are links between the two leading composers of each style: Haydn (s&d) recognised only CPE Bach (eS) as a mentor, and told his early biographers that CPE Bach had told him that he was the *only* [my emphiasis] composer who understood his teachings fully, and knew how to make use of them. Incidentally, for what it is worth, I have largely abandoned the idea of there being many transitional composers at all between the Baroque and Classical periods; from about 1740 until 1765, both flourished side by side with composers clearly in one camp or the other. Haydn b.1732 wrote his first symphony in 1757 whilst Handel, Telemann and Rameau were all still alive and flourishing; and in the case of CPE Bach b.1714, whilst there are some earlier Baroque-style trio sonatas for example, and some later old-style church music, in fact the great bulk of his works are in the new style - symphonies, keyboard sonatas, concertos and the like, often using the modern Classical sonata form, rather than the older Baroque forms. The very particular expressive character of CPE’s music is entirely Classical, though it’s true that you find some traces of the old, for example in some typically Baroque sequences he employs regularly. CPE did of course put his ideas into print in his Versuch, a modern Classical manual on the true art of keyboard playing; it is the basis of modern keyboard technique ranging from fingering to expressive playing - it is not a transitional work, it establishes the new and sweeps away the old. Hope there’s something of interest here to yourself, or anyone else passing by.

​@@elaineblackhurst1509what do you say to someone like me that adores 18th century music, but can't at all get into CPE? He gives me a headache. He lacks coherent form, balance, melody or interesting harmony. Bold dissonance after bold dissonance is not interesting to me and bored me. I also don't think his works have much contrast at all. All the movements of his works tend to be texturally simmilar and equally unpredictable. I don't care how influential he was to 18th century composers, to me he gives me a migraine and his music is without substance, not a single witty or pretty moment. Just people sawing at their strings. He seems to completely disregards woodwinds even in pieces like his flute concerti. His keyboard works are torture to get through.

@@Ziad3195 Don’t worry about it; music is like food, some you like and some you don’t, it’s a personal thing and there is no right or wrong answer. You can go through almost every great composer and find listeners who think Beethoven long-winded, Bruckner turgidly dreary, JS Bach boring, Mozart too sugary-sweet, Wagner intolerable, et cetera. Many people love Debussy - I do not (he is probably my least favourite composer), but I understand that the problem is mine and just accept it for what it is. CPE Bach is not straightforward, and whilst highly respected in his own time, he was clear in his own mind that it was Haydn alone ‘…who understood [my] teachings properly and knew how to make use of them’; that is a very short list, so if you don’t ‘get’ it, you’re not alone. You might find the following remarks of interest that appeared in The European Magazine and London Review who dismissed CPE Bach’s ‘…capricious manner, odd breaks, whimsical modulations, and often very childish manner’. Your difficulties with CPE’s music are clearly nothing new.

Right we are hearing many thing here the work on violon is crazy and some times viladi some times mozart some times Bach great work very clever work

CPE Bach’s music is a very personal and highly original take on the North German empfindsamer Stil - it is, like galant, or sturm und drang, part of the Classical style c1750 - 1800. If you read through some of my other contributions on CPE Bach, you will learn exactly what this empfindsamer Stil (sensitive) was all about.

@@elaineblackhurst1509 After listening to more of him, it must be said that he is amongst the best of his time.

@@markussabogabriel5846 You are quite right, CPE’s music is highly original, in some respects very progressive, and it has rather more substance to it than much of the galant and quite lightweight music of many of his contemporaries - though CPE does sometimes sin in this respect too (he had to sell his music, particularly his keyboard works). Additionally of course, his music was written entirely whilst living in Berlin and then Hamburg, both of which musically might as well have been on a different planet from Vienna. This is why CPE sounds so totally different from the ‘Viennese’ sound of Mozart and Haydn which is in the main, the only reference point for listeners to music from the Classical period. CPE is a very fine composer.

play it yourself then

Your comment is very disappointing 😢

@@will.sagastume Yes, his comment is very disappointing

It´s terrible!!!

Didier Talpain and Solamente Naturali are quite highly regarded critically. If you're looking for a more "suave," modern orchestra type sound, check out the Andrew Manze set with the English Concert on Harmonia Mundi. Among many others, I have this set and the Manze, and I prize both.