Amen… it seems to me that those who argue about this topic.. don’t read the Bible at all.. at least not in submission to God and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them

Free wheel isn’t a useless controvers. It’s a major lie about the Bible

@@aletheia8054 prove it

@@Fred-ur2sr If Jesus knows you’re going to hell then you can’t choose otherwise.

Spot on

Amen

Amen Amen. ... By the way 😊God bless you, your prayer is the most needed among Believers

Romans2v11 for God does not show favouritism

Amen!!

I believe that God knows our choices, and can work through them, but at the same time our choices are OUR choices. Both.

God can be ultimately sovereign while still allowing humans to make choices. Allowing choice does not mean that He bends the knee to human free will. Jonah ran away from God's calling at first but in the end, God still got His will. Though Arminianism still believes in predestination, just that God knows who will accept His grace ahead of time and that humans cannot choose God of their own, but rather are pulled to Him by His Prevenient Grace- the grace that precedes conversion. How does this work? Well, the Scriptures say that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Preaching the gospel message causes the Holy Spirit to pull people through God's Prevenient Grace to faith in Christ.

Predestined for what? False dichotomy.

@@eiontactics9056 Revelation 13:8 English Standard Version 8 and all (A)who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in (B)the book of life of (C)the Lamb (D)who was slain.

Both are lol

@Soldier We must go by what God revealed His will is to us in the Bible! Not base His will off some false unbiblical doctrines that were derived from Manichaeanism, Stoicism and Gnosticism. Also, who are you to tell God what He MUST do to be all powerful? I believe God is the one that teaches us what power, love, grace and mercy is. God is all powerful, but He is also loving, merciful, and just. People tend to put God in a box and get stuck in vain philosophies and the traditions of men... they forget or are blind to what God plainly revealed about Himself in the Bible.

YES! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

You don’t

The sovereign God created human beings /autonomous agents who can choose for themselves to obey Him or not. In this there's no contradiction Calvinistic soveighty of God by definition denies that human beings are free autonomous agents that can choose for themselves. Oh most of them they don't admit the obvious contradiction and they attempt to explain how it is not!!! Some, like this one, they admit the obvious contradiction but they tell you that we should live with that!!! In the meantime in anyway they want to say it...they're saying that God is the author of sin and evil, Who have chosen to save some by giving Jesus only for these few and He prefers/to see the majority of humanity burn in hell, though Jesus's blood is enough for the whole world!!!

@@mariospontos5096 Calvinism does not deny free will, but it asserts that, left to himself, no person will freely choose salvation. The Bible is clear that the natural man is completely incapable of choosing God. In His sovereignty, God chooses to override the free will of some people, to open their eyes so that they can understand and embrace Jesus as their Savior. Is this fair? No. But it is just. You will search the Scriptures in vain for any hint that God is fair. In His parable of the vineyard owner, it was not fair that the owner paid those who worked only an hour the same as those who worked for twelve hours, but Jesus defended his right to do what he wanted with his own money. It is not fair that God chooses some and not all, but God does not owe salvation to anyone. Those who are not God's elect have no just cause for complaint because they get what they deserve, what they freely chose. That God, in His sovereignty and omniscience, chooses some does not mean that those who are not chosen have been treated unjustly. As Romans 9:22-24 says, "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" This is a rhetorical question. The answer is that God can do whatever He wants with whomever He wants. It is curious to me how nobody ever argues against the doctrine of election from the Old Testament. Election in the Old Testament is so bold, so in your face, that nobody can doubt it. God chose Abraham, Abraham did not choose God. God chose Isaac and Jacob. God chose Moses to be His servant and prophet, and He chose Pharaoh to be His enemy. I know from my personal experience that there is no difference between my free will and God's sovereign will, and this is clearly shown in the life of Pharaoh. The text records that sometimes God hardened Pharaoh's heart, sometimes Pharaoh hardened his own heart, and sometimes the text simply says that his heart was hardened without specifying an agent. The argument that the command to choose necessitates the ability to choose is a philosophical argument, not a Biblical argument. Consider the Lamb's Book of Life in the Book of Revelation. The names of God's elect were written in that book before God created the universe. Do not be confused by Revelation 3:5. That passage does not speak of anybody's name being blotted out of the Book of Life; it speaks only of people not being blotted out of the Book of Life. Any assertion that a statement about people not being blotted out of the Book of Life necessitates some names being blotted out is an inference not justified by a careful reading of the text.

Was thinking the same thing

Indeed. The "Change My Mind"s would be most helpful to us in this time.

No, it is not a "change my mind" play. Only the elect understand about election. Calvin would have labored in vain to persuade a man with old Pelagian heresy.

calvin himself wasn't a calvinist. it was his follower bizel who developed this false teaching

No debate needed. The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

thank you for sharing!

The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

Wow this is amazing! 🎉

Thanks for your testimony sir. At the moment i am in deep search of truth. I've tried many sermons and preachers on KZfaq and such.. I admit I've searched little in the scripture. Romans 9 has hit me so hard this week about my stand as an Arminian. I still hold the belief that neither of the side saves a man but Christ and Faith in Him alone. As much Calvinism says contrary view on this, I still believe it's true but again I lay myself helpless on this matter as I look for the Truth in the Holy Bible

@@kiruikipkorir702 seek God through His Word as true saving FAITH, comes only by hearing The Word: “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” (Romans 10:17)

The belief in "Conditional Salvation" isn't as presented in this video. "Conditional Salvation" is the belief that one must express their FAITH, TRUST and BELIEF in the PERSON and finished work of Jesus on the Cross as true and real. This is God's "Condition" for Biblical Salvation. Repentance & Faith are the clearly Biblical necessities for experiencing New Life. (Acts 2:38; 17:30)

@@vicrader9195 I agree with that. Salvation is by grace through faith. A repentant heart is the catalyst for salvation. Belief in the heart and confession by the tongue.

God's love is unconditional. I believe in predestination.

As long as there is a chance someone become unfaithful to God, like turning to other God, then you can lose the gift of salvation. Like why do you have to give someone a salvation if they doesn't even care or believe

@@mikel6792 Your view seems right to you because it seems like the right thing to do. But the law could never save us. It can only condemn us. Salvation is a one-time event. The Bible says nothing can ever separate us from the love of God once we have believed. There is a cost for falling away. But it’s not losing salvation.

Also studying and appreciate this video as I prayerfully consider each

The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

@@harveygitarista1600 Thank you for your comment. I appreciate the emphasis on the importance of preaching the gospel; I agree. My point in learning about this topic is not to create divisions. Just because something's not a salvation issue doesn't mean it isn't important to look at. God has given us His word, and it is our responsibility to be heralds of His word. That means when he says things about how people are saved, I need to do my due diligence to prayerfully and faithfully handle what He says, so as to not misrepresent Him. You are right that this should not be a focus -- to a point. I know of a ministry, as far as I know, where the entire focus is on trying to convince you of Arminianism. I disagree with that philosophy. The gospel is what God has given us to preach to the world, and it is good that you say that. Thank you, and may we all be faithful to our Savior.

If you’re still studying, I found a really helpful book! It’s called “The Potters Promise” by Leighton Flowers and is a biblical assessment of soteriology (study of salvation). It’s so great!

@@harveygitarista1600 agreed!!

interesting view!

Exactly what I was going to say! Sometimes I wonder why each group is at each other's throats. Both sides are right, they are just seeing things from different perspectives. And that's why the narrator of this video said no one can truly explain God away. Especially with logic.

You might be right. I just think Christians need to spend their time and mental capacities on more important matters. Evangelism is going to be IMPOSSIBLE if we keep convoluting the message of repentance through Christ alone.

@@vinniebasile9404 I agree. Too many "Isms".

Nah if you are Calvinist And believes God pass over people Or created people to throw them to hell You need mental treatment Also you doesn't believe God is fair And Good God

Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)

IMO, the idea of preaching trust in Christ is more about gospel correction than going arminian. Instead of earning salvation by being good boy and quitting smoking etc, to try to earn what your faith in Christ should reward you with, trust in Christ is the admission that there IS no atonement, even partially, and the blood does literally all the work, immediately. The quitting smoking and being good boy can (or maybe not?) come later through sanctification and conformity to Christ, as fruits that simply show evidence of your faith to your brethren, and as witness to the unbeliever.

But the next verse says how can you call if he doesn’t believe. Therefore unbelievers don’t call

We can all agree that our feeble inept mortal minds will never comprehend the complexities of Gods sovereignty and how scripture interprets it. That’s how we know the Bible is divine inspired, if it made sense with no contradictions then it is possible to be man made. However there is a Great mystery that is so infinite in glory that it will take an eternity for us to grasp

@@aletheia8054 the next verse says How can they believe if they have not heard the word of God. The word of God produces Faith. And faith is what is needed to receive God's Grace.

@@joeydaniel3053 I witnessed to People every day. Almost all of them don’t believe after they hear it. So simply hearing it doesn’t do anything

@@joeydaniel3053 If grace means unmerited favor why would you have to do something to receive unmerited favor. That defeats the whole point of it being unmerited favor.

Well put, right? The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

God doesn't need our love though.

@@TheFinalJigsaw Never said that He does. God needs nothing. He chose to create us for our benefit. We get the joy of eternal life with our Creator. Learning from the Creator how to truly love.🙂

The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

@@harveygitarista1600 I almost agree with you fully. Debate is an important part of life. Hard to get 3 people to agree, try billions of people. You said ..."We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions"... uuummm sounds like your wasting time giving your side of an "unnecessary" division. Just saying.👍👍

I literally cannot choose to walk away because I have no desire to walk away. Just like I can't choose to stop enjoying the taste of my favorite foods or the sounds of my favorite music. These things are out of my hands

Yes! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

Amen!

We?

@@aletheia8054 yes you as well

@@Kdcitizen You can leave me out of your prayer. I’ll pray my own with my own church. You don’t even know me.

@@aletheia8054 Jesus blessed many who do not know him fully, the Apostles did as well in Jesus’ name, and many do not know the Apostles. I will still pray for you.

@@Kdcitizen That’s funny

Yes, since Eden, Adam and Eve, freewill is innate.

Lean not on your own understanding, in all ways acknowledge Him he shall make your paths straight. Of course I forgot the exact verse. But instead of relying on our own understanding we should rely on God all the time. In Jesus name. Amen

They are also Christian zionists. So they're not very biblical after all.

2 achieves his sovereignty and intended results too. His will being that he wants us to be able to pick him in spite of the world

That’s because it’s unexplainable and a mystery. Both are backed up by scripture. This is not a salvation disagreement.

@@faithdepp5282 Romans 3:10-18 10 as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one; 11 There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God; 12 They have all turned aside, together they have become [a]corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.” 13 “Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving,” “The venom of [b]asps is under their lips”; 14 “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”; 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood, 16 Destruction and misery are in their paths, 17 And they have not known the way of peace.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” For one to say they've chosen God and done it on their own accord is not what the Bible teaches. (Assuming you're saved) are you to say it wasn't the work of the Holy Spirit that brought you to the LORD? If you've truly looked into your heart as I have I would never seek out God, I would never choose to be good as God is.

The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

Actually they are hiding their beliefs. It’s quite dishonest. If you look at their website, they are 4 point Calvinists. I’ll save you the trouble; they themselves say so. That’s why their positions tend to have a more Calvinist slant. Calvinism is unbiblical, and limited atonement is straight up heresy. Even Calvin himself didn’t believe that, because John the apostle directly contradicts it. I’m at least glad GotQuestions doesn’t believe in that. Calvinism destroys the Gospel. For a true (high) Calvinist, it is impossible to preach the Gospel to everyone and say, Jesus died for all your sins. It becomes, Jesus may have died for your sins. Without free will in salvation there is no love, and without love there is no point to it all, or hope. We simply do what we are made to do. I guess I was predestined to dislike predestination 😂

Good point! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

"The lost hate God because God first hated them". That was heavy !!!! 😱😱 thank you for your comment. Arminianism is the correct view

Here's my third choice: The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

@@harveygitarista1600 AMEN!

Once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior and lord, you no longer belong to yourself anymore. "“I have been crucified with Christ: and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God" Galatians 2:20 The new man that has been born out of the Spirit has the Spirit's desires "And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good." Romans 7:16 I pray Jesus Christ will reveal you the full understanding of His grace so that you are spared the great suffering self-righteousness brings.

What the Bible says about everything being Gods will…. What God does is forever Eccl 3:14, 15 - I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
v15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
Workmanship (Poiema - Tapestry / artwork)
Eph 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Declaring End from beginning
Isaiah 46:10 - Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Phil 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Works all things Eph 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
I Thes 5:18 - In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Rom 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Acts 15:18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Acts 3:18 - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
I Cor 12:6 - And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Isaiah 42:9 - Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Acts 4:28 - For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
John 1:13 - Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
James 1:18 - Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
I Create Evil, I Do All Things
Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Eph 1:22, 23 - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
v23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Above all
Eph 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Giving Thanks for All
Eph 5:20 - Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
By Him all things consist
Col 1:17 - And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
In all things preeminence
Col 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Head of all principality (arche - rule) & power
Col 2:10 - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Christ is all
Col 3:11 - Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Daniel 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 64:6-8 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
v7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
v8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Daniel 4:17, 25, 32 - This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
v25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
v32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Psalms 135:6-12 - Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
v7 He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.
v8 Who smote the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and beast.
v9 Who sent tokens and wonders into the midst of thee, O Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his servants.

v10 Who smote great nations, and slew mighty kings;
v11 Sihon king of the Amorites, and Og king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan:
v12 And gave their land for an heritage, an heritage unto Israel his people.
Snowstorms and whirlwinds (tornados) all are the will of God when they destroy
Job 37:3-19 - He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
v4 After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard.
v5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.
v6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength.
v7 He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.
v8 Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places.
v9 Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north.
v10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened.
v11 Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud:
v12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.
v13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.
v14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
v15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
v16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
v17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?
v18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
v19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness.

God reserves snow for His purposes
Job 38:22, 23 - Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
v23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
God orders lightning, feeds lions, provides food for ravens
Job 38:35-41 - Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
v36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
v37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
v38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
v39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
v40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
v41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

Well said! Calvinism cherry picks a relative handful of Scriptures entirely out of context, changes the definitions of some of the words found in Scripture ("Election" and "Predestination", to name two), and thus twists the plain Word of God into a bizarre, contradictory amalgamation of Augustinian proto-Romanism, Manicheanism and pagan Greek philosophy. Then they have to desperately distract from Scriptures that disprove their interpretations like the ones you listed, or else fall all over themselves trying to explain how those Scriptures don't actually say what they clearly say!

@@DamonNomad82 hey brother i'd love to have a discord video call with you and see if you can show me (with the bible ofc) arminianism is biblical and why calvinism is wrong.

@@YAHOOISNOTG With all due respect, I'm afraid I must disappoint you on that. As I suffer from crippling social anxiety, any form of discussion other than typed is unfortunately out of the question in my case, as the only thing a video call would accomplish is you seeing me have a nervous breakdown, which would be unhelpful to either of us, as I would be unable to make any points and any point you might make would have trouble getting through to someone in a state of complete panic. I am not on any other social media platform other than KZfaq, and have no interest in ever being on one. If you're willing to discuss the topic in this comment section, I can certainly do so. However, you seem to be presupposing that Calvinism and Arminianism are opposites and that as a non-Calvinist that I adhere to Arminianism, neither of which is the case. Arminius was a lifelong Calvinist, and held to the vast majority of what Calvin taught. The only real differences between the two soteriologies stem from the rather superficial differences on the last 4 points of "TULIP". There are many points with which I disagree with both.

Exactly! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

@@harveygitarista1600 As far as I can see, Arminianism is Calvinism repackaged. I reject both entirely. The biggest logical problem for Calvinism is the erroneous presupposition that sovereignty automatically implies determinism. The problem is that we have people who’d rather love and worship a doctrine rather than their Creator. Rather than blindly accept propositional doctrinal conclusions, we need to get back to what Scripture ACTUALLY says (not what we THINK it’s “teaching”) and learn how to think through these things epistemically.

It is a false dichotomy. Both are incorrect and unbiblical.

@@eiontactics9056 well they cant both be completely wrong lol

@@noahsd How can they not be? Both start with a false premise of God electing people to be Saved. God never elected anyone to Salvation... He elects people to servitude and or blessings, and always for the benefit of others. Example would be Jesus. Jesus is God's elect. Jesus sacrificed Himself for the world. God elected Israel... and through Israel, the ability to be Saved was given to all men... etc. Both are false doctrines and they are both unbiblical.

@@eiontactics9056 God has to have chosen people. If he didn't, he is not God. 1 peter spells this out nicely. And where did you get the idea he does this for others? Everything is for Gods glory.

@@noahsd God "has to have chosen people"? First, chosen for what? Secondly, you said that God must do something or He is not God? Are you okay with telling God what He can or can not do? Also... this reasoning makes absolutely no sense. I got the idea that God elects people for others in the Bible. God elected Jesus... for what? To save the world. God elected the Apostles... for what? To preach the Gospel to others. God elected Isreal... for what? To show the world that we can not work for our salvation, and to crucify Jesus so that the whole world can be saved. So on and so forth. God's glory is in His love and mercy for us! God created us in His image, and He wills for us to have a loving relationship with Him and share His Glory with Him for all eternity.

CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.) I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever. I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

All? Can you explain Join 10:25-30?

The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:10-11 however, Sir. Ephesians 2:8-10. A good question to study would be, did Christ die to save sinners? Or to make them "save-able"? Scripture would contend that Jesus' work on the cross was effective to save, and did save.

If God desires all men to be saved, why aren't they all saved? Are you saying God can't get everything he desires?

Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)

Both are philosophies of the Bible, the Holy Spirit breathed book, if I say I received “revelation” that I should kill people and say it was the Holy Spirit, what do we do? we compare it with scripture, it is the inherent word of God, therefore that excuse for a lack of theological depth is not galid

The Bible is God's innerrant word,it is "truth",I thank God for the spirit of truth,faith cometh by hearing and by hearing the word of God,his "word" is truth,Proverbs 18-21;the power of life and death is in the tongue,those who love it shall eat its fruit,the Lord bless you this day.

@@billylinsley5463 bless you brother

I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

The "bible"holds all authority...not what men think.

God never elects unconditionally anyone to be Saved and some to be damned before the foundation of the world. BOTH are false doctrines. It is a false dichotomy. Don't fall into the trap. God elects people to serve and or to blessings...not to salvation. He "elects" certain people to serve Him for others. Like Jesus, Isreal, and those who believe in Christ for the purpose to serve Him for others (example, to preach the Gospel to all men so that they might be saved). He elects the faithful in Christ to be holy and without blame (a spiritual blessing), etc.

@@eiontactics9056 I don't think that's what the Bible is actually saying. "You don't believe because you are not one of my sheep". The ultimate question is simply this "where does faith come from". Is it a gift from God, or does the sinner dead in his trespasses generate it??? Why do people go to hell??? You think people believe of their own choice, so they are just smarter than people who don't believe?? You cannot ignore election it is in the Bible in black and white, however much we wish it were different.

@@friendyadvice2238 Faith isn't a thing or a work. It happens when you are introduced to truth. The Bible never says that Faith is a gift from God, His grace and Salvation is a gift from God through faith in Christ. A sinner who is a slave to sin, when introduced to the Truth of Christ has the ability to realize and acknowledge that they are sinners and need a Saviour. People go to hell because instead of owning up to being a sinner and repenting and believing in Christ, they would rather continue in their own ways and lifestyle. Everyone is responsible for if they believe or not. Nobody has an excuse, because God has sufficiently given everyone ample means to know Him and His love. It does not mean that anyone is smarter than another so to speak. It just means that some people choose to reject God for various reasons and others choose to accept Him. Simple as that. You are right! The Bible is very clear on this issue.

@@eiontactics9056 yes but you still have the same basic question ... why do some believe and some not believe?? What drives that choice??? "No one can come to me unless my Father draws him" .... so by default all cannot be draw otherwise all would be saved. The issue is what is the limiting factor? Who limits it?

@@friendyadvice2238 No... "draw" here just means like an affectionate attraction. It also says CAN come, which implies the ability to come, not some irresistible force. He was also talking about that particular time when He was still on earth in the process of fulfilling the prophecy. This is why in John 12 He says that if He is lifted up from the earth, He will draw all men to Himself. When Jesus was still living, the truth of Him was not available to everyone... only those who did not become self righteousness and knew the Father would be attracted / drawn to Jesus at that time. Also, the issue of Universalism is the problem of the Calvinist. They redefine the word draw in John 6 to support their false doctrine... but then it contradicts John 12... so then they have to change and twist the word "all" in John 12 when it is unnecessary. Draw does not mean irresistible grace. God does not force you to believe in Christ.

The Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of election/predestination, an elect people of God, the total inability of mans will to choose God, and the salvation of Gods people being secured in Christ. We don’t need the label, but it’s just a summarized way of explaining scripture.

@@matthaschanged it certainly does not plainly teach TULIP in scriptures anywhere my friend...Nowhere in Scripture does it say one is predestined to believe in CHRIST.. One is predestined to the adoption after believing though.. I believe this is where Calvinist conflate things when there is no reason or evidence to do so.. As far as total inability , there isn't any evidence for that either.. Yes I believe Scripture on how despicable man is but I don't see anywhere in Scripture that's says he can't realize it and call on THE NAME OF THE LORD upon hearing the gospel .. THE HOLY SPIRIT rebukes the world of sin through the gospel , nowhere does it say that HE forces one to believe. Take a look at this verse my friend , Romans 5 : 18.. All means all in condemnation and all means all in the free gift..same word pantas is used for the word all in Greek in both occurrences of the word...

@@matthaschanged one you are born again you are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ

@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 please explain John 6:44, Romans 9:15, Ephesians 2:8-9, and many other Scriptures. I believe the true tainted aspect is the way that these theologies are used. They seem to be used as a way to explain rather than to glorify. For example, Arminianism, in my humble opinion, is used to glorify the man in all that he can add to his salvation. This is all for not, as man has nothing he can add to his salvation or convince God that he is holy and righteous for a right standing with God. Calvinism, again in my humble opinion, glorifies the Lord in the way that he has saved us from our depraved and retched state of rebellion and hatred towards the Father. Praise be to God that He has opened our eyes to Him. For He does these things for His glory alone. A works based faith such as Arminianism is so contrary to the teachings of Christ. Even the teaching that one may leave the faith and his own accord is highly contrary to the written Word of the Gospels.

I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

Right!? Calvinists say "Sovereign" all the time but then when I ask them what they mean by it... it is a completely different definition of Sovereignty and actually contradicts Sovereignty. God can not be Sovereign if He can ONLY be Sovereign in a world where He has to meticulously control every molecule or it could thwart His plans. Calvinists have a weak unbiblical god.

I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)

I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

@@vicrader9195 well said!

So what's the correct response just be superficial and not think deeply about things? Sounds like a bad idea.

Your not a Christian if you think all religions are the same, or a believer....

@@renomoore3487 If you're just making a statement...fine. If you're suggesting, that I think all religions are the same, then perhaps you're being "scholarly"...or judgemental. For me, Christianity isn't a "religion"...it's a Reality. The ONLY reality! People can affix clever "words", phrases, interpretations all they want. Don't change a thing for me! I'll assume your were just making a statement! Since this is America, every one has the right to say as they please! I was remarking above that ALL religions (pagan or otherwise) seems to always have "scholars" muddying the waters. I assume you're a Christian, so are you totally independent? Or, identified with a particular denomination? If you're of a denomination, then you are in conflict with your own statement, "Your not a Christian if you think all religions are the same, or a believer". Because whether your are Baptist, Anglican, Lutheran, Calvinist, Methodist, Pentecost, Catholic these ARE groups, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME (in total beliefs, views of the trinity, etc) so by your own words, YOU WOULD NOT BE A CHRISTIAN or a BELIEVER!!! You can't look from the outside and say "this" applies to "you" but NOT TO ME!!! But I do understand just your flat statement! Outside of Christianity, ALL other "religions, beliefs" are just that, beliefs. If someone wants to pick up a stick, paint it, dress it and say this is Hue-Ba-Ha-Ba, knock yourself out! Christian brother, you pray for me and I for you! We'll laugh later!!!

I doubt there are many, if any people, who believe that. Personally, I think OSAS is dangerous in light of the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant, Hebrews 6, or James 2 (faith without works is dead). I won't call it heresy, but there are many people that made a true profession of faith and still fell away.

@@charliedontsurf334 also the unprofitable servant, the servant who decided to beat his servants and and sleep and drink around (Luke 12:45), the unforgiving servant, etc most of jesus teaching refer to preservering and abiding and if u don’t abide u will be thrown to the wayside or trampled on the same way u trample on the son of man when u deliberately go on sinning after recieving his grace

Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)

faith is not a work, therefore God choosing us based on foreseen faith is not us working for salvation

Amen... false dichotomy debunked.

Yeah! The Bible.

Expound on that conclusion, please.

Yes! The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

God's grace is sovereign Man or Woman 's (living) faith is their free will That why there is a warning about dying faith Thats why everyone faith is differences because there are differences mission for each people. Everyone cant all be buncha ear and eyes. Even test for each person is also different. It cannot be exactly the same...

The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. Stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. Go out there and preach the Gospel. Stop wasting your time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

Arminianism does not hold that free will is preeminent over God in any way, shape, or form. Sovereignty =/= determinism.

That is not accurate. Arminianism believes that God's sovereignty is preeminent over everything. But, unlike Calvinism, it also believes that God sovereignly chose to give man free will and make man responsible to choose whether or not to repent and believe the gospel.

John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.”

The Bible doesn’t say to accept Christ but to follow Him. You can believe in God but if you don’t follow Christ and arent obedient then you are still missing out on what being a Christian is.

@@matthaschanged that's a calvinist proof text lol

@@wellactually21 it’s the word of God

@@matthaschanged John 12:32 King James Version 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Also... stop being lazy and read the Bible in full context. Read the very next verse in John 6! John 6:45 King James Version 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. You Calvinists are so blind and lost! You call yourselves "Christians" but you are blind to the Scriptures and you don't even know the Gospel! I will pray for you! Repent of your Calvinism (which means acknowledge your sin and turn from it), and believe in Jesus Christ! The Biblical Jesus... the one who died for all men.

You clearly have never studied Islam or Reformed Theology if you think the two are analogous. Not sure why allowing the perfect God to write, produce, direct and review his own show would be a bad thing either - sounds like an emotional argument and not a scriptural one.

@@JohnnyCrack Sorry to disappoint but I have spent many hours, over years, studying both. Religion has been a lifelong interest of mine. My argument is not scriptural, since I am not a Christian. It is partially emotional (emotions are part of how we know reality) and partly rational. Hard predestination, either Islamic or Calvinist, has no room for human freedom. How that differs from puppetry, well, that escapes me.

@@polemeros Islam is an entirely works-based religion. Your "hours" of study haven't made you any smarter on religion if you think Christianity and Islam, let alone Calvinism and Islam have similar views on the will of man.

Only Adam and Eve had true free will. After the Fall every human is prisoned in sin an has only free will in his sin. No one Haß the ability to choose god from his own. In the whole bible it's good who elects. Read Romans 3 brother

CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.) I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever. I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

What a ungodly thing to call Calvin a serial killer repeat immature person

@@michaelspears4488 He didn't exactly lie. Calvin was an ungodly heretical murderer. He also somehow influenced Calvinism... a false religion that fools unknowing victims into thinking they are Christians and they are saved... when all it is doing is preaching a perverted gospel, God and Jesus and feeds on the pride of man... sending those people to hell and blinding them from the truth of Christ.

@@michaelspears4488 Hahaha. I repeat: John Calvin was a serial killer.

@@5winder real funny mocking a man of God. You show the love of the truth is Not in you

John Calvin killed at least 50 people. You don't hear that anywhere except you study.

Right. The Bible says that God is sovereign. The Bible also says that man has free will. God's sovereignty and man's free will both work at the same time. These two are not in contradiction. People should stop limiting God's power by trying to cage it and label them as Calvinism or Arminianism. We should all go out there and preach the Gospel. We should stop wasting our time trying to find sides in unnecessary divisions.

faith is not a work, litterally the whole book of romans contrasts faith and works so being predestined because of forseen faith is not working for salvation

No my friend, you have it quite backwards. The Pharisees were Calvinists, because they believed Jews were elect simply based on their Jewish status, similar to how the Calvinists belief they were predestined from birth. Their following the Law was simply was Jews did because they were Jews. You quote from the Psalms when you say “there is no one righteous, not one”. This is poetry, and it actually contrasts with what the OT says in the narrative portions. It’s much more difficult to interpret poetry and it requires more context. Consider Moses in Deuteronomy saying “choose life” and that the Law was achievable. Consider also that God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door, and he had to master it. How do you reconcile these more straightforward narrative passages? Following the Law NEVER brought salvation after death. The Bible never says it. It instead was made for good moral living and to draw people to God with the promise of eventual salvation (through the promised Messiah). That’s exactly what Jesus is. He is the culmination of the implicit promise of the Law. Righteous Jews before Jesus correctly believed God would save them, but it was never a reward for obeying the Law. Consider another thing: is faith a work? And would it have been considered a work by 1st century Jews? The answer to both questions is clearly no. The Hebrew culture is action oriented, and the Greek idea that thought and mental reasoning counts as action (work) would be foreign to them. Faith is passive. It is the mental acknowledgement/belief that Jesus is Messiah. That’s it. My good works accomplish not my salvation, but they are a humble gift for my Messiah. I hope to receive a crown as a reward someday so that I will have something to cast to the feet of Jesus.

you dont need to Choose... it just helps some Christians determine how to live out their life in certain situations.... Ultimately God cannot be fully comprehended within this human brain we have... bottom line is that these systems are not mandatory for being SAVED

Firstly, pre-destination is a false doctrine created by the devil to give God a bad image of being unfair and hating humans. This false doctrine gives some humans pride where they think they are better than others by default so they have a license to sin whereas Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “Unless you repent you will likewise perish” (See also 1 Corinthians 6:9)

@@stevenaguilera9202 In one of my visitations to hell, Jesus showed me a person who was a Christian (Jesus said “he was a Christian like you”). But the guy unfortunately started sleeping around (he was planning on repenting later). He died middle aged and went to hell forever it was dark but Jesus lit up the area, he asked Jesus for another chance but unfortunately it was too late for him, Pretty said, Repent and ask Jesus to help you with your struggles (James 4:7)

I've chosen the third way, which combines part of Calvinism with part of Arminianism: Calvinism: All who Jesus died for will eventually be saved. Arminianism: Jesus died for everybody. John 1:29, 4:42, 12:32, 17:2, combination of (John 3:35, 6:37), Rom. 5:18-19, 8:19-21, 11:32,26, 14:11 , *1 Cor. 15:22,28* , Eph. 1:10, Phil. 2:10-11, 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 2:3-6, 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 5:13, 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, 65:2-3, 145:10a, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, 57:16, Lam. 3:22,31, Ezek. 16:53,55

@@tomm6167 John 3:16: For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The passage does not say elect or chosen or predestined it says the world and whoever meaning absolutely everyone. Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,

1. Yes, there are people in hell who have not been offered salvation... 2. Governors and presidents have the right to pardon criminals... we wouldn't say that a president was unloving for not pardoning all criminals, would we?

@@johnscotland3124 Thanks for the response! 1. Is it strange that God would condemn people to hell whom he never gave a chance to be saved? How would that square with John 12:48 and Matt 25:31-46 which indicate that these people were given a chance and it is also a rejection of Christ that brings final judgement upon a person. 2. I think we would say that, for any two criminals who truly both committed the exact same crime, a governor would be unloving if he offers a pardon to just the one and not the other. Our conception that selective presidential pardons are normal and good and blanket pardons are not is tainted by the fact that usually these pardons are done only in instances of malsentencing or when the sentence is grossly more severe than deserts of the crime. However, this doesn't happen with sin. Nobody is malsentenced for sin or given a more severe punishment than deserved for their sin. We all have the same sentence just like scenario I described above. Again, in a perfect world without malsentencing, if a governor were to pardon at all, it seems he would only be loving if he offered a pardon to every criminal. Otherwise the governor would be unloving to offer a pardon to only a select few and not the others. This would be best illustrated if a president, for example, does NOT offer pardon someone who committed the exact same crime with exactly the same surrounding legal context as a person he does offer pardon. This would clearly be unloving.

@@343jonny I would disagree that one person being pardoned over another for the same crime is unloving... and I'm rather confused by your saying that it would be.

@@johnscotland3124It's quite obvious that you believe that, but why? Everything being exactly the same between two prisoners and the governor being equally as capable of offering pardon to both, for what reason would a governor then offer pardon to only one? Only because he doesn't love the other. And no, a sufficient reason for why he doesn't offer a pardon to the other criminal is not "it's a mystery".

​​@@johnscotland3124 do you realize God have free will and we was made by His image? There are differences kind of grace. E.g: rain, just and unjust...?

I get what you are saying, but realistically both are heretical doctrines not supported biblically.

CUT TO THE CHASE: When Jesus died on the cross He died for "ALL" human beings and He is not "willing" that any should be lost. The BIBLE is clear on this, read it - John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9. (And there are many more CLEAR texts on this topic of "ALL." The Original NT Greek word for "All" means "All" not some, or few.) I am a Bible-Believing Christian who got Saved by placing my Faith (Trust) in God's Love for me expressed through His Son Jesus paying the death penalty for my sins. He changed my life forever. I think that some people love their "Theology more than they love Jesus and others." The Body of Christ is bigger than what some may think or teach! We can be brothers & sisters without being "Identical Twins."

Molinism might tie both together.

@@vicrader9195 he died for all those who will believe not for those who will not believe .

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"

@@MountainMan. yeah it does not say we accept christ in that verse, we go to the father through Christ is what is saying, Acceptance into our lives is such bad wording in my opinion