Your thesaurus skills are becoming next level. Change could also be innovation this lost daedra could be why the elder scrolls is forever stuck in a midevil time. This may even be the lost god of the dwemer and there disappearance may be why they became atheist in a world with actual gids

@@zimattack9994 "skill" is a strong word, more like a monkey with a shotgun

Love these long lore videos I have watched the augur of dunlain videos 3 times because the way you done that video is fucking amazing

Hey, I think because we can enter the warded portal to Deadlight is because we have an anuic valence. The Vestige is like a pseudo-Daedra. Daedric body, anuic aspect and mortal soul.

Also, would you consider doing a video on the relationship between the Vestige and Molag Bal?

We know deadra can loose there power and can die it's what happened with the divines. Whatever way to do it drain the princes essence and they become mortal.

@@YOGI-kb9tgyeah because Lorkhan tricked the divines into creating Mundus in exchange for their immortality. Unless someone tricks a Daedric prince into giving up their immortality they won’t mortally die

@@YOGI-kb9tg Even then, the Divines *are* active, and only a few of them (such as Shor, Tsun, Y'ffre, etc.) are considered "dead" (and *even then*, we meet them and they are clearly able to continue thinking and acting in some way). Auriel allegedly re-ascended from his diminished mortal form at the beginning of the mortal world's history, and Morrowind features several of the other divines being active enough to manifest mortal avatars during the Imperial Cult and main questline.

@@YOGI-kb9tg The thing is, a Prince *is* their plane of Oblivion. So whoever the Prince of the plane is, they certainly still exist and have connection over it, or it wouldn’t.

Thanks for the super thanks mate! Appreciate it a lot. Let’s also not forget Trinimac who Boethiah ate and shat out as Malacath 😂

You've achieved chim. SO ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN YOUR DOING!

One does not need sight if one already knows all that is to be seen.

I've always had a theory that the blindness is supposed to be trading sight for a different kind of sight that mortal minds are incapable of using unless they've achieved Chim.

Awesome man! I new those blankets were worth it

@@Camelworks worth every septim

maybe that is what leads to another cycle or the kalpas - the daedric princes reuniting and then falling apart again. It would def hint again to the cyclical nature of the elder scrolls

@@allanredhill8682 That is a very interesting point. The question in this scenario then becomes if the creation of a new kalpa becomes directly influenced by the sole remembered daedric prince or if the resulting entity is something else entirely?

​@@allanredhill8682 Sort of like a Big Bang & Big Crunch model, interesting theory

Maybe that's what Jyggalag did (or tried to do) and that's why he's remembered as having threatened every Prince, and the eventual reintegration with Anu is why he resembles Order?

@@KonoGufo That is an interesting theory! If true, that would suggest that Jyggalag represents the reintegration of Anu, while the rest of the princes in this scenario would be fully-aware and adversarial to the reintegration, perhaps due to self-preservation?

"dead" for a Daedric Prince could be more like "comatose". Displaced or absorbed by a more powerful Prince and it's consciousness and sense of self destroyed entirely

Depends whether or not thier being worshiped

what if they do die in a similar way go through the same process but come back eventually

​@@thaddeushill7080metaphysical beings in TES don't require worship, nobody even worships most of the Et Ada seeing as there are thousands of Magna Ge that nobody even knows about and yet any single one of them is more powerful than an Aedra.

@@KitKatHexe now why is that....how close are thier spheres compared to others...just looking at bethesda lore shows they don't like giving us answers and CHIM makes thing a bit more complicated....i mean what has clavicus vile done he has split himself before an this is big to (me anyway) what if the dra (aedra an daedra) are only "angels" and have thier own pantheon hence.....well worship being important an my last 2 points are (this one's weak) nocturnal showing up outa nowheren(not nowhyr lel 😆) an lastly there's more then one way of "worshipping" an it changes not only on sphere (look at stendarr the racist shield...basterd) but this is my brain working an I could be very wrong an u could be right an that's what I love bout bethesda....sorry for the rant if ya read through an have a good day

>new It was always there you just bhad to be literate and intelligent to see it

You “bhave” some fantastic literacy skills yourself, skippy

@@sweetiesquad8284 Congratulations, you played yourself 😜

​@@sweetiesquad8284 another obnoxious redditor

Fat fingers aside, he's not wrong, this is hardly new of this channel lol

And it could be why the pylons in the tower are red instead of blue. Dagon is having his followers maintain them to siphon the energy from Deadlight to the Deadlands. But my slight alternative theory is that it is in fact Ithelia's former realm. And since the lore says the prince of Deadlight was defeated by Dagon the Prince of Revolution this was all part of the way Hermaeus Mora's way to remove the memory of Ithelia from the aurbis. He rewrote cosmic memory so that it was Dagon who defeated the nameless forgotten prince. He forced Dagon to mantle the energy aspect of the realm to keep a certain amount of suppression on Deadlight as well as keeping other daedra from entering via secret hidden knowledge. A contingency put in place in case of any contingencies made by Ithelia. Afterwards sealing his own memories away so the truth was not known, solidifying it as "fact" until they become unsealed.

I am hoping Bethesda revives Deadric Prince of Energy. Futuristic fantasy realm in oblivion would be pretty nice.

@@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944 Plot twist, Starfield is an alternate future where that prince beat Dagon lol

i felt similarly, my first thoughts were that the prince of deadlight is the prince of progress, advancement, very similar to hope, change, and ambition. perhaps these were mantled alongside energy?

​@@domd nah. hope is in relation to the sphere of rebellion. IIRC, Dagon was CREATED to be the embodiment of hope by the Magne-Ge to overthrow Molag Bal and the Dreugh he ruled over as king in rebellion, as they were oppressive and held complete dominance of their world and all the beings in it. The Magne-Ge did not anticipate him becoming what he did and only sought to have him be a "savior" of last resort to those who needed it. But, as we know, he developed his own ideals, ambitions, and goals and used the conditions of his creation to further his own means. He still is the Daedric prince of hope, rebellion, chaos, and destruction but now he seeks to rebel against everything, causing chaos and destruction to fulfill his own hopes of having his ideal reality.

I'm actually guessing it's ambition. Hope breeds revolution breeds change. Revolution isn't ambitious for more, it's hope that once change comes things will be better. It also seems more in keeping with his creation myth. He was created as a weapon to otherthrow the tyrant dreg Kings, a hope for a different future. Not to supplant them, which would be ambition. However ambition and energy, especially as it relates to technology seems about right.

@@Lucky13Ravens Ambition is the opposite of revolution, but they both cause change. It fits his creation story if you take the gods at face value. A lot more of the lore makes sense if your first assumption is that every god in the elder scrolls except maybe lorkhan is a glorified scam artist, constantly trying to recoup their lost power by farming mortal souls through 'afterlives'. I do believe he was made as a weapon against the dhregs, but that doesn't mean that he was intended to be good.

@@curvingfyre6810 I didn't say good. Hope isn't inherently good. And ambition isn't evil. I don't believe his Magna-ge creation. But, they wouldn't make him with ambition, they wouldn't knowingly make a tool to slay god's with ambition as a trait, that would require an IQ less than most mortals.

So glad I found this comment, so I dont have to explain that myself :D

Yeah, that makes more sense to me too. Mora is a huge asshole nerd, and he wants to know everything. A force that makes change not only possible but probable is exactly the kind of thing he would hate, because there would be things and realities he couldn’t possibly know. And he would hate that. That’s why I don’t think that that other Prince really posed any threat to reality, it just posed a threat to Mora specifically, and that’s why he went behind the others back to erase them. He isn’t a benevolent force, after all

Interesting. If they "died" simultaneously it means that their spheres are heading towards each other creating an eternal loop. This can mean that these princes are "stuck". Like the fate of the weeping angels of doctor who.

@@lighterudite it could also be that their tasks are more or less randomly distributed to other princes. The idea, the concept they represent still exist.

That’s not gonna happen it’s already been pretty much established they are anti - god not sure about atheist but they are definitely anti god (all of them as far as I know )

Remember, the forgotten Prince was destroyed before ANY mortal walked on Nirn; the passage about the Deadlight realm describes how Dagon chased the forgotten Prince to their realm and killed them "before your kind walked", so the Dwemer's advancements would have nothing to do with the Prince (although I'd imagine they'd be quite pleased with the Dwemer's scientific advancements)

I kinda like the thought that maybe this dead god was one of or many of the dwemer. most of the beings we see that simply just get so powerful that they disappear(like the augur) presumably achieve Chim, which in the case of Vivec and Tiber Septim/Talos they achieved godhood and essentially made it so that they as gods always existed within the world, it wouldn't be farfetched to me that a dwemer or a whole group of them caused a dragon break and thrust themselves back in time

In addition, seems like there are also workarounds for getting rid of Princes if enough Daedra are onboard with it. Like how The Daedric Princes cursed Jyggalag into becoming Sheogorath after breaking him in battle to be rid of the Prince of Order. It didn't kill Jyggalag, but Jyggalag had no real say in anything, and was for all effective purposes put into a twisted sort of forced sleep walk, except for during the Grey March and then off we go again. So it seems to be possible - given enough power behind it - to corrupt or alter Deadric Princes. I wonder if there ever came a hypothetical time when for some reason Dagon would provoke the ire of enough Princes to suffer some truly catastrophic levels of damage, such as with Jyggalag before being cursed into Sheogorath, what would happen to this missing perhaps consumed Prince? Would they manifest? Be freed? Could a curse be cast, and suddenly we got something different? Edit: Considering also how the Daedric Princes didn't try to consume Jyggalag despite clearly having him at their mercy, perhaps it's either a very complicated process and not always an option? Or more interestingly! Deadric Princes must be somewhat "compatible" with the one they are trying to consume? Order, logic, etc, as a sphere mixes very poorly with the spheres of influence of a lot of the major Princess who would have been involved in this whole Jyggalag incident. Of course, it could be down to just Deadric politics for why they didn't try consuming Jyggalag, but it does make to me some shred of sense consumed Deadra need to be compatible with the Prince trying to consume them as living concepts they can't without losing that concept just merge in any potential combination. So what is compatible with Dagon's spheres?

No you can "kill" them you just have to weaken them immensely so that they are no longer able to be the manifestation of their spheres of influence Jyggalag is the best example of this as his curse forced him to be very much killed and turned into Sheogorath and we have it directly from the words of Sheogorath himself that when it's his time to turn into Jyggalag he's very much also dead

You can kill an idea. Just make sure it's absolutely forgotten.

@@videocrowsnest5251 The problem with Jyggalag is rather that no daedric prince would allow any other to take on that power. They all head to work together and still only managed to twist the most powerful one, but were unable to permanently defeat him.

Would fit in with the Ayleid space program they had too (mentioned in Shadowkey). Lots of sci-fi vibes.

Welkynd stones are shards from Aetherius, so no

Wouldn't that technically be the original spirit anu, or the godhead? (If that's its name)

also ESO is NEW lore, not dusty tomes that have been scrutinized for a decade. :D

​@marhawkman303 a lot of eso lore is very good to the old lore too I love to play eso just to get a lore fix 😂

@@mwgyn all of the original ESO lore is pretty good, all the weird ways they tack ESO lore onto anything having to do with Skyrim or Morrowind is less cool

A very good point, and even a good reflection of real beliefs. Gods started out very local and very specific, but with time they were put together and more attributes were attached, but not always the same attributes in the same region. Like how Mars is not only god of war, but also guardian of agriculture, possibly starting out as storm god connected to fertility. Or how Artemis is at the same time the goddess of childbirth and chastity and later on became with Selene, the goddess of the moon, who is also interpreted as Hecate, goddess of crossroads, night, light, magic and ghosts. Seems daedric princes work in the same way.

I saw a comment on a recent FudgeMuppet video about Necrom that suggests the player character in each elder scrolls game is an embodiment of Ithelia in some way. They reinforced it by saying the player can chose how they want their destiny to play out in each game, thus the idea that Ithelia the prince of paths is acting through us

@@Tyler-vu8yr VIvec is also a character who is known to make a decision out of his own free will to defy fate as he says hidden in his sermons: "He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."

@@Tyler-vu8yrWhich is interesting because TES I - IV play within less than 35 years and at least for Aerna and Daggerfall the birthdates of the hero are known to be 3E 370 and 3E 375 The biggest gap is actually from Daggerfall to Morrowind with 22 years. Which means that atleast two, possibly three are alive at the same time.

​@HappyBeezerStudios Considering the Neverrine is biologically immortal due to the Corpus Disease. He should still be alive by Skyrim too.

But time flows differently according to the prince and akatosh has no Power over it

My question is: Could "dead" Deadric Princes be brought back to relevance by mortals? Would spreading of faith in dead Deadric Princes bring them back?

Yes, Hermaeus Mora is more about set destiny and maybe even prophecy. Ithalia sounds like she could change that. Which could potentially be incredibly dangerous because the entire Elder Scrolls universe runs on a wheel made of song and *prophecy*

⁠​⁠@@NuniixoIt’s possible Ithelia is the Daedric Prince of Destiny and Free Will. Could it be that Ithelia created the Elder Scrolls to record future destinies and prophecies she forsaw?

@@assassinwolf2719 That is not possible as the scrolls are written in Aedric script, which the Daedra are unable to use

@@Nuniixo It’s unknown who created the Elder Scrolls. There only theories that the Aedra created it and hasn’t been confirmed.

Radical take (and likely untrue but fun to think about): Ithelia is the player character of various Elder Scrolls games. A prince who has the power to change fate? This fits with a lot of the core concepts of the player character being the most important/significant figure of their eras, in regards to upholding or breaking the thread of prophecy. And who but gamers could be represented by glowing LED lights? XD

@@Karliff5 I'd love to see a mod that transports the player back in time, or maybe into a shadow of that time to find out who Ithelia was. It would be interesting. Sort of like when the player ends up in Mankar Camoran's Paradise in Oblivion to recover the Amulet of Kings.

@@Karliff5 The player character doesn't change fate, they (help) fulfill prophesies after all. The player character is most likely Lorkhan/Shor. Mankar Camoran might be right and Nirn is Lorkhan's realm.

A few Followers are expendable to Dagon, probably. He isn’t the coddling type. 😁

@@loraelstad8941 yes but expendable tends to mean, willing to let them die during a war. Like sacrificing the mythic dawn. Not, pretend to reward them, then dump them on a plane of Oblivion that's drifting into the void. That's something you do to your enemies, not your own troops.

There's a canon reason stated for why the dwemer don't worship deadric princes. If I remember correctly it had something to do with them being more focused on knowledge and research

And if a bubble pops, it splashes around. leaving droplets, which become pocket realms.

But not all planes of Oblivion are controlled by daedric princes. And daedric princes aren't limited to a single realm. Umbra created Umbriel by splitting off a piece of Clavicus Vile's realm, but then, Umbra was also split of from Clavicus Vile. The Chimer created Sadal's prison to, well imprison Sadal Arch mage Shalidor created a plane The khajiit lich Arum-Khal created a plane Mankar Cameron created a plane (his paradise) Atronachs come from their own dedicated planes The Hist have their own plane The Ideal Masters have the Soul Cairn Bad Man's Hallows is owned by a minor daedra lord who takes on the form of a tree.

Damn, here it's a rainy sunday in the early afternoon lol

Clicked as soon as I saw it

Swear to Stendarr

Same lol

I always thought that Vivec being...wrong. He until achieved CHIM was a mortal pretending to be a God. And we know there were countlass Et'Ada who choose to bail on creation and simply doesn't care for the Mortal Realm and Oblivion being infinite I at least assume there are many MANY more princes just...out of reach. Ithelia is a special case since taking Mora's word at face value she could have unreaveled the Mundus and Daedric lords we know LOVE Mundus thus Mora stopping her. And perhaps something even more going on. Politics of oblivion is quite complex after all.

@@berilsevvalbekret772 Since we're talking timeless pre-creatia, it's possible there were more than Princes who hung around going 'oooo shiny' at the Mundus, but by the time of Convention and it all stabilized all but the 16 were 'dead' or driven out of Oblivion? 16 Constants emerging out of the infinite possibilities.

The probelm with taking everything Vivec states as undeniable truth is that Vivec is a giant liar and faker. That's kind of his schtick. He has a lot of wise things to say, but who is to say how much of it is true.

But wasn't stated that she was forgotten before mortals walked reality or the planet

@@varlak9061 then why would there be temples built to her? Might just mean Human Mortals....

Personally I find ESO lore boring and stupid compared to the real games!(sadly)

​@@user-nj5bd8ly1ydo you even try to Step in ? The best stories are in eso if you dont rush and only Listen.

What if Ithalia changed the fate of Lyg, from which Dagon was effectively created from, and he wanted some revenge or something

...what's a Daedric lord who isn't a prince?

@@grilledleeks6514 There's the Bad Man the Daedric Tree in the public dungeon of Glenumbra, Crow Mother of the Crow's Wood and Hollowjack a dread lord that feeds off mortal fears. And the Demiprince of the Maelstrom Arena. The title of Deadra Lord is like a nobility among the common Kyn and other forms of Daedra whilst the Princes are the undisputed kings and Queens of Oblivion only challenged by eachother. It's a common miss conception that Daedric Lords and Daedric Prince's are the same thing

@majialthedarkprince2403 what labels them as lord? Is there a hierarchy listed somewhere? If you don't have your own plane of oblivion to lord over, I highly doubt any other daedra call you lord

Now here's an interesting connection.... there is a time in an ES game where you DO talk to a Dwemer. A Dwemer who avoided the fate of the rest of the race by being lost exploring planes of Oblivion. To what end though?

@@marhawkman303 yea we never learn what he was doing in oblivion and why he was doing it or even what happened to him

@@GothikSlytherin Well, I wonder if maybe he might have visited here? maybe.... possibly... Or perhaps another Dwemer?