Camshaft Closed DESMODROMIC Valve: Explained!

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Күн бұрын

Follow me on Instagram - @VisioRacer - for more car stuff. And subscribe to my channel here: bit.ly/SubToVisioRacer
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This video is fair use under U.S. copyright law because it is transformative in nature, uses no more of the original than necessary and has no negative effect on the market for the original work.
- Credits -
“Ducati Panigale 1299S update .... More carbon fiber!!! AKRAPOVIC SOUND AT 3 min” by Paul Arys
• Ducati Panigale 1299S ...
“Ducati Testastretta DVT Engine with Desmodromic Variable Timing” by Ducati
• Ducati Testastretta DV...
“Ducati Desmo Valve System” by zoransucks
• Ducati Desmo Valve System
“Ducati S4RS Monster Tricolore Desmodromic System Actuation” by Revo Moto Works
• Ducati S4RS Monster Tr...
“1299 Superleggera - Engine” by Ducati
• Video
“New Multistrada 1200 - Assembly video” by Ducati
• New Multistrada 1200 -...
“Mulholland Highway - Ducati 899 Panigale Fly By and GoPro Suction Mount” by Johnny Chimpo
• Mulholland Highway - D...
“2015 Ducati 899 Panigale - Sweet Exhaust Sound NYC” by NYCarspotter
• Video
“Ducati 899 Panigale Exhaust Sounds | HQ Audio!” by WeNeedASaga
• Ducati 899 Panigale Ex...
“【The Sound of Silverarrows】Mercedes W196 STREAMLINER” by 2008uenopanda
• 【The Sound of Silverar...

Пікірлер: 143

@VisioRacer 7 жыл бұрын

Recently I have come across this spectacular valvetrain system and found out that KZfaq misses a proper explanation video, so I decided to make it myself. What do you think about this system - like it or feel it should end finally? I personally find it fascinating.

@gert106xsi 7 жыл бұрын

Advantages are not as big as it used to be but it is indeed an interesting technology. Do you know if it is compatible with variable valve timing and/or lifting?

@calyodelphi124 7 жыл бұрын

Whether or not desmo drives are now obsolete by modern metallurgy, the fact that you decided to make a proper explanation video anyways is awesome. Technology may go out of date, but that doesn't mean that nobody should talk about how it works or worked, and thus relegate it to a fate of being forgotten and forgone.

@pepitosbazzeguti1073 7 жыл бұрын

I think it's one of the signs of an automotive trademark like Ducati must have. It's like having Porsche 911 with the engine mounted in the front, or a Mazda RX without the Wankel engine: there are many solutions to emprove the functionality of an automotive product, but still they remain so fascinating that, without them, a particular product wouldn't be so... particular!

@jonasholste221 7 жыл бұрын

VisioRacer god i love your channel. mainly because it seems we have quite similar interests and opinions about this topic. could you make a video about nice sports cars under 10k?

@Berchol 7 жыл бұрын

A Ducati without desmo valves would be a Lambo without the V12

@eliotmansfield 7 жыл бұрын

In the UK they had a bike racing series called battle of the twins. Anything could enter, except ducati desmo's because being 4v they were more powerful than their 2v contemporaries. My father who was a cylinder head specialist was enlisted by a racing team to remove desmo system and replace it with valve springs. Took some planning to drill a big hole in the head in order to modify it internally. It won first time out and the competitors put in a protest insisting it's taken apart for inspection. Imagine there surprise when they found springs!

@philiptownsend4026 Жыл бұрын

I have long held that in motorsports if you want to be better then you must be different and try things no-one else is doing. Your Dad is a prime example.

@upsidedowndog1256 7 жыл бұрын

The biggest advantage of desmo is lack of spring friction. This becomes huge as rpms increase and results in better fuel consumption for racing desmodromic valve engines.

@dylanzrim1011 7 жыл бұрын

Anthony Butera just like running competition cams, springs... in a race car, they're going to need much more maintenance, and generally won't like being short shifted.

@upsidedowndog1256 7 жыл бұрын

Dylan Zrim Kind of but you have to set lash in 2 directions. No springforce on the cam in a desmo. Turn the cam on anything else and you will feel resistance from the springs on the valves.

@fidelcatsro6948 7 жыл бұрын

Japanese bikes should try it out as well. who know how well they will improvise it further!!

@phantommedia9964 7 жыл бұрын

I wonder if instead of camshaft has anybody put another tiny crankshaft with the valves attached to it? Would it work better or worse?

@upsidedowndog1256 7 жыл бұрын

Phantom Driven - Cars, RCs, and Lego Technic. Nice concept. It would work well until the tolerances changed. Come up with a way to adjust for that and you may have a great idea.

@DanteTheAbyssalBeing 7 жыл бұрын

You should do more of these technical videos, you explained it really well.

@nikosbenopoulos7306 7 жыл бұрын

by far the most interesting video u have ever made

@woddow 7 жыл бұрын

ncs productions I agree

@azharfahry_ 7 жыл бұрын

bcoz it's a bike. who's not interested with a bike?

@waynejurgensen4585 7 жыл бұрын

i own a ducati 900 monster, the other thing ducati is known for dry clutches. its a symphony of mechanical noises. bikes got some quirks and personality, but the noise at WOT, legendary.

@177SCmaro 7 жыл бұрын

Desmodromic systems are one of those things that's interesting in principle but bulky and complicated (and now largely obsolete) in practice.

@devilsoffspring5519 4 жыл бұрын

Similar to Wankel engines and automotive gas turbines. Electric power has plenty of potential, but nobody has managed to get the exorbitant cost down very much yet--the huge battery pack is still much too expensive. They're working on it, but it will happen very, very slowly.

@kasperkjrsgaard1447 4 жыл бұрын

maverick And yet only Ducati uses desmo valvetrains. The rest manages without.

@Hector_Malot 3 жыл бұрын

@David Miatke honda has been selling v4s since 1982, with added reliability

@ben156 2 жыл бұрын

@@devilsoffspring5519 You kinda got it right, the main issue being we have no efficienct way of storing power ie batteries are still way behind where they should be compared to motors they could power...

@devilsoffspring5519 2 жыл бұрын

@David Miatke Which of course is uber-lameass, because the whole point of developing something better is to develop something better :)

@TheWickedwoodie 7 жыл бұрын

Well done sir, awesome video you made. Great subject, NICE to see you included the different cars that also used the system. Great narration, and very informative, nice touch showing the 19th century patent. Bravo!

@davidmoss4492 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you Visio, I always wondered how Desmo's worked. A very clear explanation. Your channel keeps getting better with every video.

@yusufkuntoro3141 7 жыл бұрын

advantage of desmo is reduce power loss at valvetrain system and can rev at high engine speed without valve floating symptom.

@lucavicari2136 7 жыл бұрын

You don't know how much i searched for a video like this.. Thank you!

@jakubbarta5826 7 жыл бұрын

po dlouhé době jsem se dozvěděl o nějaké pro mě nové technologii. skvělá práce :)

@TimBaoht 7 жыл бұрын

After your last video, I found myself wishing for just this! appreciated!!!

@monteiro5306 7 жыл бұрын

Once more a nice video. I am a happy subscriber. Keep the good job.

@workman88 7 жыл бұрын

Nice seeing how my engine works. Thanks duuuude.

@Markle2k 7 жыл бұрын

Interesting and well done. When I first heard of desmos, I thought, "that's great. I wonder why they don't put it in every little performance engine?" BTW, on the pronunciation front: You don't pronounce the "p" in pneumatic. It's a lot easier to pronounce it correctly, I think you'll find. Also remember that the "schwa" is basically the default vowel in Br/Am English. Master that and you'll eliminate a lot of errors.

@Okipouros 7 жыл бұрын

pneumatic is a greek work, and p is not silient in greek. writing it with a p, then saying its silent its the more retarded thing ever. would love to hear the retarded logic behind that

@TheShamiester 7 жыл бұрын

Okipouros logic? THIS IS ENGRISH!!

@Markle2k 7 жыл бұрын

+Okipouros You'll have to hop in a time machine and ask the French or the Italians because that's where English picked up the Greek prefixes pneumo-, ptero, and psych-.

@Punisher9419 7 жыл бұрын

Great video as always.

@drPagi33 7 жыл бұрын

I love your videos, you present very interesting cars, bikes and engines

@sef_halabi 7 жыл бұрын

My favorite video on the channel. I ❤️ Ducati. Thanks 🙏

@DevInvest 6 жыл бұрын

Your channel is now my favorite Motorsports channel not dedicated to racing ... You do a tremendous job producing these I enjoy them

@gpracer270 7 жыл бұрын

Nice job again !!

@mohanraj-tl8rn 7 жыл бұрын

Nice video and lot of info Thanks bro

@Utsav_Nayak 7 жыл бұрын

and Ducati be like '' Oh U wanna ride our Desmodronic engine equipped superlaggera ''

@CMAllstars 7 жыл бұрын

This is really cool! Please make more videos explaining stuff!

@H3ntairican 7 жыл бұрын

wow I've never knew this amazing and brilliant awesome video

@rafaellastracom6411 4 жыл бұрын

Not exactly VisioRacer. Desmodromic drives are still quite relevant specifically when applied to larger pistons/volumes above 0.5 liter/cylinder. Those are large cylinder swept volumes that require large valves to fill. Those valves are heavy and using springs to seat the valves for high RPM use means high cam-to-tappet pressures leading to wear. If you are spinning to very high rpm with such large cylinders desmo drives still outperform standard valve springs by not having to use titanium valve materials. If you are using large cylinder volumes for relatively low speeds (below 7,500 rpm) use standard springs but for higher rpms desmodromic begins to make sense as valve float is eliminated. Every technology has its niche.

@propdoctor21564 5 жыл бұрын

Cool video. I learned something new today

@fauzandarmawan7592 7 жыл бұрын

i'm finally know what is the desmodromic valve is thx @visioracer

@naufalabyani6314 7 жыл бұрын

Nice explanation

@victoraguilarl3605 7 жыл бұрын

coooool

@guyver33 7 жыл бұрын

Great video mate please do note like it they are very informative and interesting. Due to this valve system is that why Dukes have a unique sound?

@zk55 7 жыл бұрын

Ducati will not discontinue the twin, they will just make a V4 as well.

@garum001 7 жыл бұрын

nice video

@TerribleTimes 7 жыл бұрын

Gotta pint out 'valve float' is purdy much done away with when using a Desmo valve system.

@marshalllhiepler 4 жыл бұрын

Pardon me for pinting out that you purdy much slept through grammar class.

@oscarpark1523 7 жыл бұрын

another great video.. Desmo does out perform valve springs in motogp though.. They just can't touch Pneumatic valves; But nothing's lighter than air..

@VisioRacer 7 жыл бұрын

Though, they don't use air, but nitrogen

@oscarpark1523 7 жыл бұрын

VisioRacer thank you for the reply.. My apologies. Nitrogen not air :)

@Pwnzarelli 7 жыл бұрын

oh cool ty

@ramama987 4 ай бұрын

Exactly, BINGO, said it yourself, springs nowadays are stronger. That's what Ducati is trying to overcome... The force of the spring resistance, not metallurgy. I have no idea which source you found that metallurgy was worse when Ducati started out :D

@michaelroberts889 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Being the techno-geek l am this one was still a mystery. I wish you had given more function description. How does it do what it does?

@thelongboarddude95 7 жыл бұрын

I'm gonna do a tour on one next month! That's what I call timing hahah

@JanBinnendijk 5 жыл бұрын

the maintenance intervals are about the same as an y non-desmo system without hydraulic tappets, the only thing is.. the work is twice as much.. I have 2 ducati's and i do the maintenance myself, valve adjustment on my 851 means with 8 valves that ihave to adjust 16 clearances (like on a 4cilinder 16 valve engine).. i did a 4 cilinder 8 valve engine once, that took me just as long, as i was totally unfamiliar with valve adjustment with bolts)

@fidelcatsro6948 7 жыл бұрын

great explanation... thought an Italian called desmodrono designed this valve in 18th century..

@mephistopheles8220 7 жыл бұрын

are you french? man your videos are gnarly. i used to watch your rotor video.

@robmitchell716 7 жыл бұрын

you're right but it's a bit more complicated than just high revs. When you open a valve, as it nears fully open the cam must slow the valve opening speed so it doesn't launch of the cam and the valve fully open occurs a bit after optimum. When a normal can has a valve fully open out must be a bit gentle about starting the valve closure. of the cam drops away to quickly the valve will float and therefore must start to close a bit earlier then optimum. Of you mechanically push the valve closed you can leave it fully open for longer and then force it shut. While a short stroke engine allows higher revs it also exacerbates the the problem of having to open and close valves more suddenly. desmodromic valves allow shorter stroke and higher rpm 2 things Ducati are known for.

@shapshooter7769 2 жыл бұрын

Everything else is just cam profile. There's aggressive cams and smooth cams. The lobe design can still be applied to a desmo or spring system. VVT is the next step (multiple cam profiles and/or timing), and Freevalve is the future (fully variable lift and timing)

@longducati 3 жыл бұрын

Ducati 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

@barryphillips7327 7 жыл бұрын

Nothing quite like the sound of a big Duke sport bike under hard acceleration!

@pauayelo7161 7 жыл бұрын

woooow really surprised pegaso used that sistem

@Psycandy 3 жыл бұрын

why is it called 'desmodromic'? would a traditional cam/spring be a monodromic valve?

@marinelsubu2366 4 жыл бұрын

i'm not so sure about that " springleass" system , it's relative complicated . Cam & follower , what's the big deal ? progressive spring maybe .

@CSLFiero 3 жыл бұрын

desmo valves are due for a comeback. in the modern engine, there is direct injection, which means there is really only one reason valves remain conical--they spin slightly in action. desmo valves cannot rotate in their seat, which means irregular shapes can be introduced. irregular creasant moon shaped valves with a desmo open and closing arrangement could enable pushrod engines to actually overtake typical 4 value engines with conical valves for surface area and maximum CFM, letting a combustion chamber breathe to it's theoretical limit on just two valves. this would not be possible prior to direct injection because conical valves were still necessary to ensure proper fuel atomization. now atomization happens purely with high pressure and valves can be free to be any shape provided they do not rotate in their seats at high RPM like sprung valves tend to do.

@CSLFiero 3 жыл бұрын

it's worth noting that the friction losses associate with desmo is more pronounced at high rpm anyways, which means at pushrod valve limits, 8000-9000 rpm, the parasitic losses associated with desmo would be much more neglegible. My goal, if I ever get enough know-how and free time, is to design a underbore v10 pushrod desmo engine of approx 4.8L in diplacement and even firing interval running a mean piston speed over 25 m/s. I'm expecting in excess of 600hp naturally aspirated in an engine no bigger than a small block chevy.

@freelancerider100 4 ай бұрын

You are missing the other reason valves are round- the thermal expansion issue.... a conical seat can still seal. The exhaust valve depends on the time it is closed to dissipate heat, quench itself against the seat. Otherwise it will overheat become brittle and crack.

@philiptownsend4026 Жыл бұрын

Why do I have in my head thoughts that the Triumph Dolomite Sprint ha Desmo valve gear?

@TheYamR6Sp 6 жыл бұрын

The Mercedes-Benz engines of the Messersmitt BF109's used Desmodronic valves during WW2

@MrGuvEuroman 7 жыл бұрын

Desmodromic valves in 4 words, powered open, powered closed.

@djisch 6 жыл бұрын

I always wondered where are you from

@dylanzrim1011 7 жыл бұрын

I'll try to link you a video of my dads Ducati. It would put this video's to shame.

@xzistpo 7 жыл бұрын

Well seems like the desmo system ain't that bad considering the kind of power/torque figures the panigale is producing with a vtwin.

@TheDynoSoar 7 жыл бұрын

visioracer, can you speak italian? your pronunciation is pretty good

@VisioRacer 7 жыл бұрын

I cannot, unfortunately :)

@MasterofOtis 7 жыл бұрын

Just for future reference, the 'p' in pneumatic is silent. :)

@matthewmcneil7201 7 жыл бұрын

Love your videos bro can u I like or reply?

@VisioRacer 7 жыл бұрын

Sure

@rayyanprime8935 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for giving knowledge brother pin it if you like it

@rayyanprime8935 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks bro

@timskys6959 7 жыл бұрын

I personally dislike ducati engines but they look fucking insane but I'd take any Japanese motorcycle anyday

@filthyanimal874 7 жыл бұрын

Ducati's are L twins, not V twins my friend. God I love I those Italian bikes!

@984francis 3 жыл бұрын

An L twin IS a 90 degree V twin.

@dreaman1981 4 жыл бұрын

Sistema Free valve, si possono controllare le valvole senza albero a cammes, usando dei solenoidi, o chissà quanti altri tipi di attuatori...non capisco perchè nel 2020 questo sistema non sia montato su tutti i motori....Un vantaggio enorme, non avere gli alberi a cammes, che obbligano ad avere valori di apertura e tempi di apertura e chiusura fissi, a parte i sistemi tipo V-tec Honda, ma anche in quel caso hai sempre lo stesso funzionamento! Invece con un sistema free valve, controllate elettronicamente hai infinite possibilità per farle lavorare !!

@ExoticOption3 7 жыл бұрын

I disagree on it being an obsolete technology. Still up there with pneumatic valves on very high revving engines.

@siegerkoopmans441 7 жыл бұрын

i hafe suppd for already 1 year zo

@koongfu00 3 жыл бұрын

But Ducati sound… that sells

@joepkortekaas8813 3 жыл бұрын

I absolutely disagree with your statements about valve springs in the 1950s - the NSU Rennmax, e.g. and the Rennfox, plus the MV Agustas, Gileras, Mondials and Guzzis were high revving, very reliable racing engines, with hardly any valve spring troubles. As a matter of fact, the desmodromic system of the Ducatis has nowadays hardly a justification, proven by the fact that nobody else uses it!

@bikertoyztm7552 4 жыл бұрын

W196 has inline 8 not V8 engine! Mistake...

@poojakulkarni7177 7 жыл бұрын

2:44 its 90° L twin engine not v twin

@alangodin2090 7 жыл бұрын

L-Twin is just marketing

@VisioRacer 7 жыл бұрын

L-twin is just a nickname, let's say it this way. In the real world, it is just a 90° V-twin engine. Many engines do have the 90° V angle, V-8s most often.

@sentinel4418 2 жыл бұрын

@@VisioRacer It's how the engine sat in the bikes. Viewed from the right side of the bike the cylinder heads form an L shape, not a V.