yeah, especially with self made stick bows with sinew strings and broad heads carved from flint rocks

It’s called competence and accuracy! Skill!

The joke is they are better at selling things you don't need.

Good for you always cool to see a girl who hunts

The 30-30 still gets it done, for sure!! I killed my first elk with a .25-35 Winchester when I was a senior in high school.

Ron: the 160 grain “flex tip” Leverevolution bullet used for the 30-30 also has a boat tail which also helps at longer ranges, eh? JWC

I absolutely agree. If you know your 30-30 you will get a clean shot at 300 yds. It will go right clean through the chest of a deer with a 150gr bullet. I would not stand in front of it.

Just curious, have you tried the flex tip rounds for longer range in the 30-30? The ballistics seem very impressive, similar to 7.62x39 out to 300 yards.

Yes, the Browning BLR (especially the stainless steel, takedown model) and Henry Long Ranger. All lever-actions with removable box magazines. >>I have a Winchester model 88 in .308.

@@royjohnson465 yeah that must suck, we can hunt from a moving vehicle of any kind here in Australia, there’s a lot of wide open spaces out here, so it’s the best way to get around a large property most of the time, the old 30-30 used to be very popular for pig hunters, not so much these days though, I find the BLR very handy

I hunted moose in Newfoundland and found it a PITA to have to unload the hinged floorplate on my 300wby mag so often. Next time I'm taking my Rem 7600 in 30-06.

@@kevincolonel3070 (1)So the law is the same in Newfoundland also.! I live in another Canadian province and the same here. No cartridges allowed in 'any' type of magazine while riding in an ATV or vehicle, yes a PITA. (2)My dad had an older German made Weatherby, 300 Wby. Mag., you maybe able to find a "conversion kit " for it to change it from a hinged floor plate "to a" detachable magazine. (3)I bought a new Remington 7600 Carbine 30-06 (never shot it yet), I am regretting getting the 18.5" barrel because I should have got the 22" barrel instead. (4)The detachable magazines on the 7600 are a little tricky to install, they can jam (stick) if not put in properly, I find they have to be put in at a slight angle to go in smoothly. (5)I do not have a scope for it yet, I am thinking of going with a Bushnell AR Optics 1-8×24 scope for it. (6)I do not have a shoulder sling put on my 7600 yet. I have to decide to put the sling attached to either the barrel "or" to the front of the pump-action rail.? (7)I want to get Cerakote (a rust proofing coating) put on my 7600. I see on the internet in Pennsylvania at Grice gunshop they sold 7600's with Cerakote already put on. (8)I think that maybe 7600's are "no longer being made" at the factory in Ilion, New York.? (9)I heard that the Remington 870, '20 guage', stocks fit on to the 7600, if a person wants a left side folding stock or a replacement.

Where did you find a 10rnd mag for it?

Lol. All the city guys are raving over the 6.5 Go get ya one. Don’t forget everybody’s 2 favorites, 25.06 and 350 legend. You’ll have them covered for sure... lol. To your point... it’s about the. “ loins” according to Rut Daniels.. freezer filler.. Like me, I’m sure you have put one or two in the freezer with all those calibers.

I'm having issues with my right (dominant) eye right now, and while I had a 30-06 as a teen, and I can shoot it even still with the scope. However, I do a lot of big woods hunting where it's not difficult to put 10 miles on your boots a day. And my 700 with scope and sling is right at 9lb empty. A couple year back, pre-eye issue, I bought a Rossi R92 in 44 mag with a 16" carbine barrel. It weighs right at 6lb with a sling, empty. I fell in love with the 'ultra-light' concept. I put a lot of miles on with that rifle and it's responsible for my best buck to date. Fast forward to my current issue. Open sights aren't confidence inspiring, even the ghost ring setup is giving me issues. I still want a lightweight rifle setup. I just picked up a Howa 1500 Mini-action in 6.5 grendel. With the standard contour 22" barrel it's listed at 5.7lb. After a 2-7x33 Leopold is slapped onto it, with a sling, I should still handily be under 7lb. But my upside is I'll be able to confidently shoot it again as optics for the time being are working for me, without giving up my new found love for 'ultra-light' compact rifles. Years ago, I'd be wanting more "knock down power" than a 6.5 grendel, but considering it starts out parallel with the 250 savage but with far more efficient projectiles that allows it to hit downrange more like a .257 Roberts or a bit better. And the 257 BOB is arguably the ideal all around deer cartridge ever built. I'm excited to start carrying the Howa this fall. I won't promote the grendel as a 400 yard deer gun even though ballistically it is capable as such. If you plan to shoot over 300 yards at deer, chances are you are practiced enough to handle a more potent chambering that will undeniable poke bigger holes at further distances. And I'll use my 30-06 running Hornady superformance 165gr loads if I predict shots being much over 200-250 for any reason. My wife also has shown interest, as have my growing kids, for trying to shoot a deer themselves in the future. My wife is not an experienced shooter and is small I'm stature so a lightweight soft recoiling round that still has the capability really has its merits. At the ranges 99% of deer are harvested on this continent, a 30-30 or even 44 mag lever gun will not be in any way insufficient to the task. Very few animals, prior to this latest long range craze, are taken at ranges over 200 yards. White I am an eastern hunter, I've hunted fields where the potential for shots in excess of 500-600+ are possible. My longest shot at a deer was 360 yards and it's the one other time at over 200 and it was the same deer the following night at about 225.. I shot one coyote at 265 yards, and a fox at 410 yards. Otherwise every single shot at any game has been inside 200 yards. Honestly, a 30-06, .270, and even .308 are MORE than the majority of hunters actually need for anything smaller and lighter built than elk or black bear. Not to mention the hoards of hunters running 7mm, 300s, and other magnums.

Stick with 308 you won't be sorry

Different cartridges have different advantages. That's why it matters. That's like saying, all cars have four wheels, why would anyone need a pickup?

I agree. Started shooting deer with a 7x57 way back, went through the magnumitis phase and now I'm down to killing them with 223(with Barnes of course) and it never fails. Cheers!🤘

Love mine.

Still an awesome gun but Savage is ruled by "cheaper is better" management in all they do so we'll never see it made again.

My father killed a few whitetail with them, and loved them. Used to shoot coffee cans at 350 at the local range with his 336 and a 3-9 scope.

I use the Leverevolution in my 336 and its a game changer, nothing dangerous about it, the rubber tip won't set off the primers.

Yes or Winchester's "Dear Season Copper".

@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 i didn't know that was out, thank you for your message!

Leverevolution is a gun powder hornady makes to get higher fps not a bullet, the flex tip theres two types hornady makes lead and copper got a pointed rubber tip for higher BC

i have a 340 c and love it its so much fun

the 308 sends that 165 at about 2700 fps

with a 150gr you're over 2800fps

You could have taken a pointed tool to lift the 94 extractor up releasing the cartridge

I have done A LOT of experimenting with the 30-30 and improved loads. Yes one determining factor is keeping the overall cartridge length just long enough to cycle through your rifle. A positive for the standard 30-30 case is it has a longer neck than it really needs . If you are shooting longer bullets, there is some room to trim the neck down so you can still crimp on the cannelure and keep the rounds shoort enough to cycle in your rifle. That is a trick I use in one of my handloads . Give that a try and see if it helps.

You are correct. "Working pressure" in SAAMI specs means the case, not so much the gun.

.30-30 Ackley Improved.

@@robertwatson818 Wildcat, not a 30-30.

@@oldgoat1890 .30-30 Ackley Improved. Still .30--30 just "improved". You can still use factory ammo. I have a friend who has an older Marlin chambered in this. .308 performance is easy to obtain. if you do this--make sure the person doing it uses the ORIGINAL Ackley dimensions for the reamer. Many folks make their own "versions" of it--each claiming theirs to be "better".

@@robertwatson818 Wildcat. 30-30 resizing dies will not make a "30-30 "Improved" case, so it is a wildcat. What you are describing is "Fireforming". I am a fan of P.O. Ackley's research and gunsmithing, but his silly "Improved" cartridges have ruined a lot of good factory rifles.

..Both have their ‘application’ and BEST-served distance and power/velocity advantages. The .30-30 is an excellent ‘brush-‘gun and easy to wield or carry. The .308 Win punches that extra distance with power on tap..

In BS Rons video's there is zero common sense when it is impossible to load a 30-30 with more than 32 grains of powder and max powder charges for the 308 is 48 grains that flattens primers

@Joel The only reason I have put together a 308 AR 10 upper is I believe civil war is coming so I want a common military round. I have already two AR 15 uppers in 223 one is 18 inch barrel the other is 20 inch barrel. I have an AR 15 upper 16 inch barrel in 7.62x39 so I feel I am covered for common ammo and have been hording ammo for the outbreak of war to end communism. For 30 cal rifles I use for hunting 2 of them are in 300 Wby mag. For big game in Alaska I have a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 Mauser then an AR 10 upper in 375 WSM that is just light more in power then the 375 H&H mag. Then I have a bunch of other guns

Juan Garza ~The Browning BLR (especially the stainless steel, takedown model) and Henry Long Ranger. "Lever-actions with removable box magazines." >>>I also have a Winchester model 88 in .308, beautiful light-weight and smooth. Browning and Winchester are owned by the same company so only the BLR is made now.

My dad likes his too. The only time I've saw much talk about the model 88 on a major youtube channel was by Paul Harrell in the "Sighting in a deer rifle" episode. I could be a little off in the episode name.

Don't forget the 35 Remington in Michigan.

I've shot plenty of whitetail deer and swine with a 30/30 and other "unsuitable " cartridges. You don't need any special ammunition to do the job, and a regular old flatnose bullet doesn't turn down into the ground at 100 yards. You can cleanly kill deer out past 100 if you're sighted correctly and can hold properly. I've never recovered a " mushroomed " 30/30 bullet. All pass throughs which is what I want. 2 holes to let blood out and air in. They still work fine.

Thanks joracer1.

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Who's Rod?🤔

It can shoot that far but you get bad performance

I am sure you think 500 yards is 3 city blocks

@@Lure-Benson : Meaning?

My Savage bolt 30-30, loves the 160 Hornady lever revolution bullets, but I run standard 170 grain rd nose in my Marlin 30-30, they like different things.

I reload the 35 Rem with Barns TTSX 200 grain that goes in the Marlin chamber then round noise in the tube magazine. The Barns TTSX is only used with every animal dead

I agree. The .30-30 Winchester was designed for a lever action rifle and functions perfectly in one. With iron sights or a LPFO (2x or 3x), the .30-30 works out to 200-250 yards. Where I live in southern Maine, that covers 99% of potential shots. OTOH the .308 Winchester was designed for bolt action and semi-auto rifles. It delivers twice the energy or more, and the effective hunting range can be 500 yards depending on the bullet. (Target range is farther.) Now if you have a Browning BLR chambered in .308 Winchester, you’ve got the lever action rifle with spire tip .308 ballistics and that’s a good thing! (Box magazine instead of tube feed)

My Savage loves the 160 Hornady’s, just saying, they run fine from my mag. ignore me if you like tinkering w/loads.

I shortened the necks on some cases so the spritzers would seat properly and work in the magazine on the Savage 340. Accuracy was terrible. Too much freebore.

Yes sir, Sonny. I think that is the smartest approach.

And think with a but stock shell holder you have 4 or 5 more rounds very close at hand. Could probably reload a single round in 3 seconds.

The FTX bullets are easy to load, and easy to get up to 2400fps with Leverevolution powder. Fast enough for a 6 1/2 lb rifle, especially in wooded areas. And yes, my 308 loads with 150 gr bullets are pushing 2900 fps, and they are not maxed out loads.

@@timclaus8313 Yeah, comparatively, my estimates showed the 160 FTX had about the same energy as the conventional flat pointed style bullet, but just over 100 yards further out.

@@lifted_above Good compromise between a 150 and 170, and it hits hard.

@@lifted_above Agree, I did good good range accuracy with the 160 FTX bullets.

Thanks!

Sounds like a smart idea, unter.

I used that same method to tame a .30-06 for a neighbor kid because it was the only gun he had and he was a little guy. Used it in an old beater 06 I had that kicked like a mule with full loads and it killed things just fine.

@@davidzakrzewicz707 I was very surprised at the accuracy of the 30-30 bullets when shot in a good rifle. I started testing several years ago using my Savage 116 in 30-06, using the Sierra pro hunter 150 gr flat nose bullet designed for the 30-30. It doesn't have the BC of a good spitzer bullet, but under 100 yds, it works just fine and as long as you keep the muzzle velocity below 2600 fps, it will expand properly without coming apart on target.

@@davidzakrzewicz707 ~I have several boxes of >>Hornady Custom Lite 125 grain in 30-06

@@royjohnson465 I have heard of the managed recoil rounds but never tried them. I started my kids on a .243 and when they got big enough to handle a larger caliber I let them pick what they wanted to shoot. As of now the cartridges they’ve chosen are .30-06, .280 , .270, .257 Roberts, and one still on my old .243. They are grown now, except the youngest, and have all taken deer successfully with their chosen rifles. I hand load for all of them.

Thanks for the idea, 404.

A 125-130 gr bullet should be outstanding! You spark ideas in this old brain!

Hornady does make a 120gr flex tip I bought them thinking they was 150gr but when I got home seen they was 120gr so I took them back and got the 150gr RN interlock I should have reloaded them to see how they did

@@dr.froghopper6711 I've been using the Speer 130 FP bullet for years in my 30-30. It does around 2500-2550 fps depending on the load. It has a very good rep for holding together on game.

@@warrengreen3217 I believe that what you had was the SST bullet and it has a much tougher/harder plastic tip than the soft flex tip made for tube magazine guns.

That Hornady ammo is very good stuff. It doubled the practical accuracy of the old 30-30. Excellent performance on game too. For me, its my go to ammo for hunting with the 30-30. It dont get much better than that Hornady ammo.

Hornady lever evolution ammo already does that, and its pressure safe too.

Magazine length in the Savage 340 won’t allow to seat a pointed bullet in proper position.

@@mopardoctor9966 thanks Mopar. I didn't know that. Not yet being a reloader I always forget to remember about magazine length and cartridge length. Keep well.

@@mopardoctor9966 savage has to have mag reworked for shoulder clearance, stay with 150 or less grain bullets (heavier won't open anyway) and your good to go

@@mopardoctor9966 .... gotta 1966 Power Wagon stepside, 318, 4 speed granny tranny... GRIN !!!!

@@robaldridge6505 Groundpounder!

~Also the Browning BLR (especially the stainless steel, takedown model) and Henry Long Ranger. All lever-actions with removable box magazines. >>I have a Winchester model 88 in .308.

The absolute finest model 94 ever made. The 307 is awsome.

Yep, I had that big bore, chose .307 over the then offered .356.

Actually that Marlin LR rifle is a Henry!

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Sorry about that, My mistake. I have a Marlin and have a bad habit of saying Marlin every time I am talking lever actions.

..agreed

Sounds like a Bible verse! Amen!

The 99s are a bit finicky with reloads and more often than not it is just as u said, length. I found this to be true in 308 and 250-3000 as well.

The 2 round 'cheaters' may be actually getting close to the mid range trajectory of the .308, but you overlooked a newer option in getting there. The .300 BLK and .30 AR have 125gr pointed soft point options. They rival cup and core type ballistic coefficients of more standard 150gr loadings. The projectiles themselves are short than pointed or even round nose 150s. Federal already has a 125gr JHP factory load that I believe runs in the ballpark of 2600 fps. I'd think running a hot-ish load behind a 125 PSP would put you within sniffing distance of the more standard core-lokt, PowerPoint, PowerShot, interlock, etc 150gr 308 loads. And I believe Barnes has a 110gr tsx bullet for the 300 BLK that would be able to be driven quite fast from a 30-30 I'd assume.

I like it! Well said!

Thanks shudogg.

The thing about the super bullets in the 30-30, is they are designed to perform at close woods ranges, while for 308, the idea is more towards longer ranges, and they sometime under perform, particularly coppers, at the close ranges.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with that ammo.

I have a Marlin 336 in .30-30. I shoot Hornady 160 grain "gummy tips" out of it almost exclusively. Mine chronographs close to the advertised 2,350 at 5,450' above sea level. Average was around 2,345 fps.

@@jerroldshelton9367 That's pretty good. Are you using the factory ammo? I'm just using the bullets and loading my own using the leverloution powder. I'm a bit below the max charge but it's good enough for me to just plink around with. Thanks for sharing.

@@teedermcdribble I shot the factory ammo until I could get the LVR powder and component bullets. Now it's handloads only. I'm loading them full-throttle per the charge listed on the LVR bottle. I'm doing that because it happens to result in the best accuracy in my rifle, and for no other reason. I used to think that my Marlin 336 would be the perfect hunting rifle if I could hit reliably with it out to 300 yards. "300" stems from the fact that in 46 seasons, the longest shots I've ever taken on game were both about 275 yards. One was at a pig on California's Santa Rosa Island while shooting a 1903 Springfield in .30-'06. The other was at a mule deer in a California high desert mountain range while shooting a Ruger No.1 B in .300 Weatherby. I couldn't hit the kill-zone sized gong every time at 300 yards with my Marlin 336 when using conventional .30-30 bullets. I almost could with the factory Leverevolution ammo. That was a game-changing experience for me. Noting the good accuracy people were getting with the 336 XLR and Leverevolution, I bobbed my magazine tube to half-length and attached it as Marlin did on the XLR variant. I put a new "gummy tip compatible" follower in it. I glass bedded the butt to the receiver Now I have no trouble repeatedly going "4 for 4" on the 300 yard kill zone gong. That's as far as I am willing to pull the trigger on a critter. The rifle / ammo combo does everything I need a hunting rifle to do. As a result, my formerly extensive gun collection has shrunk considerably. ;)

@@jerroldshelton9367 Seeing how high the cost of primers and powder still is I think this may be my first summer in years that I just plink around with the 22 and don't do much reloading. Maybe things will become more reasonable in a little while.

Thank you! Thats been my argument to the guys that claim a shot @ 990yds, no hunting skill to sniping. When I could bow hunt, 40-45 yds was about as far as I might take a shot. Hunt from the ground, and in heavy woods, my muzzle loader, or 30-30 does just fine now. Yeah I have a 308, but it spends time at the range, 30-30 goes hunting, most shots are inside 75yds.max.

There is no substitute for bullet placement.

@@mrdinme.4768 that's all well and good, but there is plenty of skill involved at hitting an animal at long range. First you have to be able to shoot long range to begin with (not plinking at long range shooting 10 inch steel plates with a million chances, hitting something the size of a coffee mug at distance with one chance) at long range the bullet is traveling slower, which is why many long range hunters choose calibers that start out "too fast" for some people's taste so that when the bullet reaches it's target it still has enough velocity to initiate expansion and take the animal down quickly, cleanly, and ethically. I know a dozen people who can hit a 36" gong at 1000 yards, but only 2 of them can hit a cantaloupe at that distance with less than 5 shots, and only one of those two can do it reliably. Hitting the animal is not good enough, you often have to be *more* precise than you would up close because the bullet isn't going to perform as efficiently as it would at higher velocity. The 30-30 is still an excellent cartridge within its performance envelope, but new developments have led to improved cartridges (whether many people have an actual need for them is one thing, but the newer cartridges themselves are an improvement)

@@Kross8761 Ok, please understand, all I am saying is, I differentiate between, long range shooting, and hunting, stalking, getting into close range. I get where long range is some folks cup of tea, yes it involves looking for game, shooting from one mountain top across to another, out west I get that. I live in NE, always been heavy woods, the average shot(about 35-45yds) on very nervous, jumpy white tail. I am not insulting long range, but its a different category of hunting to me. Yes, Im sure both categories have those that make me shake my head. Some guys around here think they NEED a 300 win. mag. or a 7mm mag.? Now out west I understand that better. Im sure you know guys that stretch their cal. choices, like maybe a 30-30 trying a 650 yd shot? Thats all, I was only speaking from my experiences, not insulting or berating anything.

@@mrdinme.4768 That's fair enough, and that's sort of true for me, I live in East Tennessee and rarely come across a shot longer than 150-200yds, but I like to practice at long range because I go out west to hunt elk with my stepfather. He uses a 300WM to devastating effect and I've recently picked up a 300PRC, which is essentially just a modernized win mag that can handle longer, heavier bullets. Long range isn't something I come across naturally where I live, but I love shooting and practicing at long range because it's different, and I do actually get to put my skills to the test fairly often.

No one cares what u have

I have seen the difference . I saw a 30-30 shoot factory 170 grain ammo over a chronograph at 2190 fps . That same rifle was shooting handloaded 160 grain FTX loads over a chronograph at 2450 fps after the chamber was reamed out to 30-30 Ackley .

@banjer4u that's an impressive gain of 322 ft•lbs (if I did my math right) and with a bullet with a far higher bc. While not .308, it does put in the vicinity of .300 savage, which isn't too bad!

The bolt locks into the barrel on the 760. The model 88 Winchester has a forward locking bolt into the receiver.

…are they NOT available? Stock/supply at retailers or LGS non-existent on the .30-30 AND the .308 Win?

@@m118lr I've been trying to buy either one for almost a year and that's with 2 factories in Wisconsin churning out what I heard was 30K centerfire rifles a month!

Look at getting the Browning BLR '81 stainless steel takedown in .308 "instead of" the Henry Long Ranger in .308. It is just about impossible for me to find a Browning BLR '81 stainless steel takedown now also.

Just another means of LEARNING and ‘experimenting’ (RELOADING). Without knowledge where would we be?

@@m118lr Oh, I've done my fair share of that. And yeah, to be fair, there are some "special interest loads" for .30-30 that do tweak it's application. There is actually more room going down in power than trying to go up. Those little pills and cast bullets can make a .30-30 a small game getter too. Back in the old days when a woodsman subsistence hunter might benefit from using his .30-30 for things like rabbit, grouse, turkey and such, specialty loads have utility.

Well, I slam bolts when I'm taking follow-up shots in a hurry.