The problem with CFMoto is while the MSRP is 1K TO 1500 dollars less than an equivalent Japanese bike, the dealers claim the profit margin is so small, they have to add 1k to 1500 dealer fees to make a profit. Once they add that fee, people say well I'll just buy a Honda, Kawasaki etc. My local CFMoto dealer has 30 bikes in stock some 2 years old, that they can't sell for the above listed reasons. People figure, why take a chance on a Chinese bike when for the same money or a few hundred more, they can get a Japanese bike they KNOW is reliable.

Competition is a good thing, the Japanese, American and European manufacturers will have to step up their game. I am seriously considering buying a Chinese dual sport.

I have a 2022 CFmoto CLX 700 Sport and it is a great bike! Lots of fun, and my wife likes it so much she's looking at getting one of their naked bikes. Their build quality is impressive and they have fantastic features that many of the competitors in the class don't have. I hope they continue putting out these machines since more options is a win for everyone on two wheels.

A few years back I bought a CFMoto quad - changed my life as a die hard Suzuki fan. I recently bought a CF 650MT = so far the best all around bike I ever had (I have owned over 20 Suzuki's in my lifetime and still love them). This past summer I bought a CF UForce 600 UTV that all of my Polaris buddies are now in awe of - ESPECIALLY when they see all of my STANDARD features and low price. I have no prejudice towards citizens of any country so I appreciate that part of the video and couldn't agree more. At the end of the day we are all just trying to make a living. Motor on - no matter what you ride! 🏍

Good perspective on commerce versus government. I’ll think again on these things. Your argument may have swayed me. Well done. 🍻

It doesn't matter where the bike is built. Quality control is key. Honda had Japanese veteran engineers doing quality control in their Chinese factory, and very likely branches in Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia too. These non-Japanese Honda bikes are as good as any Honda should be.

I bought the CF Moto Ibex 800T last July and have about 2400 miles on it now. It's worked flawlessly and kept me warm all winter while riding in southeastern Washington state.

Purchased a Kove Ralley yesterday after studying all the KZfaq videos and physically looking at the bike. One of the more convincing reviews was done by Jimmy Lewis, who rode the wheels off one for 1500 miles. He drained the oil when finished and stated it was the cleanest he had ever witnessed. Seems Kove has absolutely up the game.

I have enjoyed every CFMoto I've ridden. And I love how they have pushed the market to giving us what we have been asking for. We need companies like them to push the other to actually make better products and remain in a competitive price point. CFMoto, Kove, and Sur Ron in 5 years will have captured an even larger corner of the industry unless the larger manufacturers truely step of their game. Always appreciate your take, even if sometimes I don't agree. Stay safe

My Dad was a Navy SeaBee on Okinawa in 1945 . He went crazy when I came home in 1970 with a Yamaha . Had many bikes since then . Bought a 2023 CF Moto CLX 700 last September . Being a mature rider I love that it's aimed more to comfort than all out performance , And the performance doesn't disappoint .

I personally think mfg’s like CF Moto can keep the industry going by providing bikes that are affordable that far more people can enjoy Now! Instead of waiting for the ship to come in to buy an HD or other expensive brands. If affordable brands come in and steal market share, the expensive brands only have themselves to blame by not responding to the market, they had ample time to do so

Times are a changing 🧐 good video and topic.

Great video Patryk! I believe 100% that the Chinese manufacturers like CFMoto and Kove are actually way ahead of where the Japanese were when they came here, so much so that my CFMoto-made KTM is waiting for me to pick it up at the dealer! I also agree that we need to be mindful of punishing an entire population that has no control over what their government does.

This week I ordered an X-pro Templar 250X because my local Honda dealer lied thru their teeth to get me to buy a CRF250F at $2000 above retail. I love Big Red, but they need to audit their dealer's practices.

Great video. Funny was looking at the 450MT online last two days.

I've seen plenty of CF Moto machines at my local dealer, quality seems fine, prices are a fraction of Japanese brands they sit next to. I agree with your view on the Chinese people being victims of a dictatorship style government, one could go as far to claim both Canada and the US are no different as far as corruption and propaganda. Ride on.

It is only a matter of time until these bikes make a big impact on our market. I am looking forward to the 450 twin! Might be a nice addition to the stable.

I never cease to wonder at where you get your (always good) Content ideas from, and here is another example of one. I was surprised not to hear the name of a brand, that is getting an increasing number of followers and indeed buyers in Europe, especially in the UK. That brand being VOGE, (pronounced "voudge") and it's also the brand that is tempting me to maybe also go "chinese"! After all..., you've gotta, "go with the Time, or with Time, you'll go".

Great unbiased fact filled video, unlike many others reviewers which are more about race then the bikes.

I gotta say, the Ibex 450 (and CFMoto SxS's) are super tempting. The Ibex could well be my next bike. The only thing that makes me hesitate is not the brand, but the local CFMoto dealer, which does not have a great reputation.

I have 2 bikes, one is a Japanese adventure bike and the other is a cheap Chinese 250cc that I use mostly to ride trails. I can do it with my Japanese bike but I find it a little heavy for that. When you get your Chinese bike you need to go through everything since not everything might be coming perfect out of the factory. And no, not everybody in the west is ready to pay top dollars for top innovation. I personally prefer a bike with really basic functions, no fancy electronics and an affordable price.

I live and ride in Indonesia, my riding environment is an "exotic, adv adventure" right out of my door steps. I have locally made CRF150L (12hp), CB150X (14 hp), 300 Rally, Hunter 350, Continental GT650 and just got CFMOTO Papio SS. In my opinion the "major" brands (because of us the riders loosing grip with reality) are not delivering what we want. My CB150X is my favorite bike, $2300 USD here. It is a 80 km/h bike (tops out 120 or something like that). The suspension.....suspends and damps (I added oil to front forks only), the motor pulls to about 8000 rpm, the clutch is perfect, the brakes stop well, gearbox is sweet, comes with center stand, fueling is butter smooth, is comfortable and it has a 450 km plus tank range and most importantly it weights 135 kg wet. My Rally a "want this bike since it was released as a 250". Well this is 90-100 km/h bike, the suspension is a joke (if you weight zero kg, the static sag is already what the rider sag should be), my fueling (I have the Euro 5 ECU) is terrible off idle, side stand too short, no passing light switch (important here where people are trying to kill you), no acc adapter (but they provide acc plug right in the harness). The motor is all choked up, the slipper clutch has issues if you look around........I fixed these issues, $2000 on a budget, it's a fun bike here, but every time I ride my CB150X, I can't help but feel like Honda just doesn't give sh*t when it comes to the Rally. My little Papio SS, it's really good, quality, performance/feel and all the nice features. I keep hoping for the 350-450 Rally, for decent suspension from factory, better fueling and tune of the engine.........I keep coming back to the fact that the Rally is 155 kg wet. Done with that, for my European vacation bike I am getting the MT450, the only miss here is the close to 200 wet weight.

I rode a couple of CFMOTO bikes a couple of weeks ago during a ride day & came away impressed. They've been here in Australia for over 2 decades & are building a solid reputation. I'm also about to go on a 450km drive in an hour to pick up a 2021 Benelli Lioncino 500 that's done 1,200km for almost half the price of a new one. It's been listed for sale for 2 weeks & the only other one for sale within 500km of me is a 2018 model with 20,000km that's been listed for 7 weeks. I've had 2 Harley dealerships calling me in the last 2 weeks, practically begging me to come & test ride the new 350 & 500 after I expressed a little interest. And that's a pretty decent snapshot of where Chinese bikes are in our market. CFMOTO pulled a decent crowd during their ride day, but there's not a lot of interest in any of the others, even with a big name badge slapped on the side. And the Chinese bike industry's reputation isn't helped by Braaap, Sol Invictus & now Mutt Motorcycles all bringing in the same cheap motorcycles from the same factory & slapping their names on the side. These things rust at the sight of a leaky tap & sell for almost pocket change, even when slightly used.

Spot on! Totally agree on the "support regime" bit. CFMoto has some seriously nice bikes. And since I'm a happy owner of a 2020 Austrian built 790 Duke, I have compared that one with the new CFMoto built 790 Dukes. No difference as the eye can see. Time will tell if they are better/worse. Thanks!

Excellent video and great points. I was going to get a transalp and mod it (new suspension and expensive custom tubeless rims/hubs) but now I think I’m going to wait for the ibex 450. It’s not as powerful as the transalp but I’m coming off a KLR650 and the 450 twin will be an improvement anyways. The ibex has just about all the features I view as a unicorn bike plus it’s affordable.

Steve McQueen rode in the Great Escape, a modified 650 Triumph, similar to what he raced in Baja-not a BMW. Paying the workers well helped Japan innovate on an industrial level, so I don't believe he's as infallible as he portrays himself to be. And who's more competitive than the Japanese motorcycle and automobile industries-while still producing great quality? (Paying workers the lowest? That almost killed Harley during the AMF years.) Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

Can't see why not, like everyone else, as long as QUALITY n PRICE is GOOD, who cares who manufacturers what ever, We're all working people 😊

Hey Brother, I purchased a Dongfang 250 Ghost. I believe your points are spot on. Thanks to all of you guys keeping it real. I know I'm gonna do some good maintenance, Check torque, but mine is gorgeous, purrs and does exactly what I wanted her for. A good value at a great price. $2712. to my door. Thanks for a gr8 show

I'm seriously considering buying the soon to arrive in the land down under CF 450mt. Looks very attractive and it is well priced.

Me and my partner bought in October 23 both a voge rally 300. In January, we sold them again. They rust like hell, the temp sensors failed, the gasoline gauge didn't work from the beginning, the brakes make weird noises in the rain, one clutch cable failed and the fifth gear made problems... This all happened in the first 2k kilometers. Yes it's insanely cheaper than a Honda crf and generally its a nice bike but it's not worth the trouble.

Right now one of the bikes I can’t seem to let go of and use for doing trips on is my 1998 BMW F650. 420lbs wet with a 48hp Rotax single. With 50/50 tires it gets me everywhere I need to go when on a motorcycle trip. But this CFMoto Ibex450 could be the replacement bike. A little more suspension travel and less vibration for when you are cruising at high speed. I am excited for it and if it turns out as good as it sounds, then I would seriously consider it. We live in a lucky time with all the great bike offerings available. More is always better!

Yep. We are going to be running the CFMOTO 450MT as our tour bike when it arrives. They make bikes we want that others won’t

Very interesting. Not quite ready to give up my old V-Strom yet, but when the time comes to jump back into the market, these bikes would definitely get some consideration.

this is one of the most informative videos to date ;; it has taken the chinese a long time to suss out the western market , but they have learnt , harley put their eggs in the posh basket and no one wants them ;;; the main problem still with chinese brands is spares , if you live in a highly populated area there might be a dealer , but in rural areas they are worse than than the rest which are already bad enough ;;

Nice. I'm a former long term Yamaha owner, now retired wanting a small bike I was put off by sticker shock at local dealers. Formerly not a fan of China products, but in the last couple years I have seen Harbor Freight greatly improve now becoming the replacement for Sears Craftsmen of my working years, and now actually surpassing Sears by-far in price and selection. So after watching KZfaq about Chinese bikes I bought a KPX250 (Venom, Lifan, QiPai) online. It was was shipped from CA, arrived in a week , undamaged, easily assembled. The fit and finish is great, I get compliments from strangers saying they have seen this bike on KZfaq and were wondering about getting one since the price is half a comparable Japanese bike. This has been a phase shift for me, formerly resisting Chinese products and now buying a expensive (for me) motorcycle. I wonder what the future holds with these quality bike being so cheap and other forms of transport being so incredibly & stupidly expensive.

I rode Ibex. Spent a few moments to come up with cons...and I could not. China, along with India, is now one of key producers of motorcycle industry. Well, more competitions, better for all consumers :D

The biggest problem with Chinese bikes is the other Chinese manufacturers that are not so worried about quality. Everybody had been suckered with a sub par product from China with no compensation. Once bitten, twice shy. I do credit import car makers for the fully optioned vehicles we have today. They usually had three models to choose from, a basic, mid and fully optioned model while North American makes were basically "pick a part". At one time, a rear bumper was an option on a Chevrolet pickup.

On reflection, all major motorbike companies should be offering decent quality motorbikes for way less, considering modern manufacturing and availability of parts and cheaper production costs. I think Chinese bikes have a real shot. If they work on using good, mid-range materials and releasing popular models in a good variety of cc's, they could absolutely rise to the top.

I live in the Philippines and bought a used Rusi 250 classic, it now has about 24,000 kms on it with no problems. Parts are super cheap and labour is FREE, that’s right, you buy the parts and they replace it for free. I love it

I certainly would buy it. I've been sick of the ever larger, ever more comples, ever more $$$$$$$$$$$$ motorcycles from all the major manufacturers for years now. $25 thousand or more for a motorcycle that's insane !

I've pre-ordered Kove 800X in December, it will arrive in ~1.5months, looking forward to it!

I have a CFmoto sxs not let me down yes 15000km on it with regular maintenance.

The big brands themselves started this trend. When they started to produce their bikes in cheaper countries. What is the difference buying a KTM 390 or a CF Moto if, in reality the end product is more or less the same and made in the same country? Except the price. What you get for your money is in the end what counts. Taking over the market is not propable, not in the near future at least but they are taking a cut of it soon, I think. A lot depends on how they build up their dealer network, for example here in Sweden the one thing holding RE back for the moment is that they have not found the right partner to go with and that keeps the sales numbers down. Every new brand has the same problem, of course but some way they have to solve this if they are going to establish themselves in any major way. Some new thinking about this is needed, massive dealer networks are costly and that bumps up prices so some other way needs to be found. That will happen, sooner or later but we are not there yet. Interesting topic!

You made great points about Chinese products today as Japanese and Korean products yesteryear. Fair competition is a good thing at all times.

Agree. Fantastic video 👍

My CLX 700 Had beautiful oil at it's break in change and it's a fantastic motorcycle. I like it better than my Harley.

My main issue was the servicing. No one wanted to service the bike I started on (sinnis 125) and it was not reliable at all. I would absolutely buy a Chinese bike again but not for a few years until the kinks are ironed out and garages start to accept them for servicing

Anecdotally in my area CFMOTO just can't manage to sell them they're piling up at the dealership while people wait in a line for a chance to buy litterally anything else. Ultimately they end up selling for 40-50% off after a year or two when the dealer needs them out the door. In turn their resale value is absolutely abysmal so if you're going to buy one you pretty much have to wait for them to go on sale at half price otherwise you're throwing your money in a fire pit. I assume with time as you mention they will build up their reputation but for now I just don't see Honda or Harley getting worried.

I think for me the issue I have is with the dealers that are bringing in these chinese brands to Malaysia. I don't think we have an issue with it being a chinese made motorcycle, but it's the after sales service provided by the dealers here. I've heard so many horror stories from taking months to order parts, refusing to fix an issue to unreliable service and advice provided by the dealers. It seems as though they want to just get the bikes out of the door and let the owners deal with the issues themselves. I myself have been contemplating a cfmoto 800nk but should any issues come up, dealing with the authorised dealers are what scares me, not the bike. In turn, it really hurts the brand strength.

I sure hope not. But the MT/Ibex450 looks very tempting. Hopefully Susuki takes note and gives us a DRZ450 and a DR Big.

If the early reviews come in good the CFMOTO 450MT will sell like hot cakes! Hell, it's what everyone has been asking for. They already make most of the KTM bikes, I will certainly be on the waiting list.

Great video very true and awesome ending about not boycotting an entire country

Hi from UK great vid and yes I think I would quite happily buy a Cf moto

Have ridden many of the new CFMoto bikes, and the Kove, and I gotta say, having lived through the era when the japanese companies were seen as cheap and inferior and only a couple years later were the go to brands for quality......The chinese companies are progressing much faster, and are already, major brands at least, only just below the japanese in quality already. My bet is that within the next very few years, they will be on a completely level field with them, and may, in time, even surpass them. What an amazing time to be a motorcyclist. Doubly so if you are, like myself, particularly into medium displacement bikes.

I have a CF Moto 400NK and I simply love it, Recently I travelled to Portugal and was amazed to see that CF Moto was being sold there, after some googling I saw their network of dealerships in that country was really extensive, due to the Chinese products having lower prices and the economy in Europe I believe they will own a greater slice of the market share.

I bought a Benelli 500cc Leoncino. To me it was like buying a Tesla or an iPhone manufactured in China. I didn't even noticed that Benelli belonged to a Chinese company. A stylish moto with modern technology but as simple as good old ones..... It works fine. No issues.

I have a Shineray XY400GY which is a cross between a dual sport and a lightweight ADV bike like the new RE Himalayan. And it’s awesome. Also branded as the Mash 400 Adventure or the WK 400 Trail.

Following closely. I owned a Sportster HD and the Chinese version looks a dead ringer at a fraction of the cost. Sometimes HD risk losing market share by raising prices to be a marquee branded product. Interesting that the new 350/500 cc new models are Chinese made bikes. Harley had to step up with competitive rates, but they are really expensive for what you are getting. Good video, I'll ride a Royal Enfield any day, around long enough to checkout reliability issues. "Nothing to see here" they look pretty good also.

Been daily'ing my Benelli TRK502x for a couple years, now at 12,000km. Only fault I've had is the rollover sensor went bad and prevented startup, works perfectly with it unplugged. I previously had an Enfield Himalayan, total lemon. Same with a friend's one that blew the top end at around 10,000km. We won't be buying them again anytime soon, even if the twins are made better. Only thing I can really knock the Benelli bikes for is depreciation out the door, which can actually be a good thing if you're buying barely used (as I did)

I've recently changed from 2012 Triumph explorer 1200 triple to the CFMOTO 800NK sport and it's an amazing motorcycle. I live in the UK and only had the 800NK for 2 weeks so obviously it's been a very wet first 2 weeks but I'm hoping for some nice dry weather very soon so I can take the bike out for a dry non commute blast to see what she's really capable of. But first impression is it's a great motorbike and I've bought some mods to make it usable for me as I ride all year round commuting. I say give CFMOTO a good look.

Yes I would, the quality is mile from what it used to be, and of cause there is some manufactures that still makes that questionable quality, but Volve, BYD, 80% of all parts in cars/bikes etc are made in china, they have learned, and since the government is promoting export with rebates and tax benefits, they will push onto the markets outside of China, and don't forget there is a whole country of that is bigger than all of europe or US for that matter with consumers that will say if its good or not, so can you find the bikes on the domestic market then its a seal of approval.

Benda are producing some cool looking cruiser motorcycles, like the LFC-700 and 450 Napoleon.

I would definitely buy te CF moto 450, just not the first Gen

cant wait to test that 450mt out honestly

I ordered the 459MT 2 weeks ago. Let's hope it's in my garage quick!

We've been asking for a Kawasaki Versys 400 for years. 😢

Steve McQueen rode a triumph 650 in the great escape as he was a triumph fan and a suitable BMW was not available. Bud Etkins did the jump over the barbed wire fence

Wise words mate. Well said

I would definitely go with the Kove or Cf Moto brands. As you mentioned years ago the Japanese brands in the auto industry had a slow go but now they are on top. The Chinese brands will be competitive soon enough. And I currently own a Cf Moto atv and it works just as good as the Japanese and American brands

Keeway are another good Chinese brand. Their Superlight is probably the best sub 3k cruiser on the market and the new 300cc V-twin cruiser is much faster and better looking than anything in the RE range.

I wish I knew where they have a dealership for the bikes that look like the Harley Sportster, I'd like to take one for a test ride, maybe buy one...or two. Can anyone tell me where I can find any of these dealerships here in Michigan, possibly? Anyone?

If they’re built well, why not.

Elegancko, bardzo fajnie się ogląda.

What beginner riders want is yesterday's prices with today's safety. It's really easy to do due to major improvements in manufacturing processes like liquid injected molding/ casting. We don't need more farkles. We want reliable but cheap motorcycles. Royal Enfield is the only brand that really offers quality motorcycles at a cheap price. But it seems like Chinese motorcycles seem to be catching up to RE in terms of reliability but still keeping costs down.

You can also check SYM NH-T 300. It is made in Taiwan and is currently taking Europe and South America by storm.

seems like thats what the chinese are really good for. Mass production of more expensive bike category hence making it cheap and affordable to enter. Parts wise, we have yet to see the long term reliability.

Probably. Most of the motorcycle manufacturers have innovated and market researched themselves to a price where buying new will just not happen. Royal Enfield is quality enough and capable enough and something affordable new, which goes a long way to getting a sale.

Think you overlooked Voge which is similar to Cfmoto and produce some nice bikes 😊 they are the high end group of Loncin in China, then there is zontes who are growing their range

Excellent video. I really like the added history and politics too. 😃

I don't remember anyone ever calling Japanese cars unreliable. They used to say Ford stood for "fix or repair daily".

I would buy a CF Moto but not a first year model. Now riding 2 Suzuki's , just want dependable bikes.

My first and only MC was a Suzuki DR 125. Built 1982. Inexpensive, simple, robust and reliable. BUT. Around 1998 Suzuki Germany decided to scrap all spare parts still in stock in Heppenheim. So if Chinese MC companies would focus on long term service they would have a distinct advantage. As Chinese strategy is long term, I see a real chance that this might come true. So yes, I would go for a Chinese MC.

Some really interesting points made here. One way forward is to do what some UK firms have done and that is collaborate with Chinese companies ie using their engines etc.I had a Yamaha YBR 125 and assumed it was Japanese but it was Chinese built. The British motorcycle industry was decimated by the Japanese in the '70s. Could the Chinese repeat this with the Japanese. Having said that the Japanese keep innovating. You make an interesting argument about the Chinese Sportster clone. The next few years will be interesting that's for sure. Keep the videos coming.

is there voge brand in us?just bought one here in italy...

I love the excitement of all these new Chinese bikes coming into market. Most of them are crap, but there are some gems in there. Either way, I think they have the best start up menu, lights, etc when you first turn the key on. After the bugs are worked out and the cream rises to the top, we will know what the new Big 4 competition will be. It's exciting and feels like the 1970's all over again. EDIT : Totally agree with your opinion regarding the people vs the country that rules over them around 11:45.

Chinese quality has definitely improved. Their blind spot is they choose a distribution system based on the ability to pay rather than customer care in some cases

Sym has always been reliable like honda in their engines at least but I can't complain i bought a new sym nht 300 for 3700 euros and im happy with it

When I look at bikes, I look at minimal electronics, reliability and to be able to do my own routine maintainance

I owned cfmoto 650MT , and its great machine ....

I was very skeptical of chinese motorcycles but went to check out a CF Moto WK 650 TR for sale localy for £1.000 and found it was in fantastic condition for a motorcycle built in 2015. Took it out for a test drive, had it for a year now and other than tyres and chain i wouldn't change anything.

I love CFMoto bikes. So do our customers who buy them. When you sell and service CFM along side other major brands it's apparent they're a serious manufacturer.

Good call, until now the big manufacturers haven't had to listen. Maybe now we'll see some dual sports with decent seats and gas tanks.

It doesn’t matter if you would buy one or not. The world is buying them in rapidly increasing numbers every day. Nuff said.

I own keeway benelli and kove (Bristol) and i really love it. It’s gorgeous

Pricing has to change on the premiums. I was just at Blackfoot in Calgary yesterday and the 2024 T120 has gone up $2200 in one year with no changes....

I'll definitely buy a kove/cfmoto. eagerly waiting for the 450mt to be out for preorder in my country, Kove still far because they don't bring their own brand here, just a partnership with local dealer rebranded still their 500x adventure is doing fine, but yeah resale value is abysmal on these Chinese brands.

They are already more than 60 percent sales in mexico. They can cost half the price than a honda equivalent. They can make a good first bike for new bikers who can try a 150cc to 250cc at a very affordable price. 1k-2k usd

CF MOTO do some good bikes and they got a 4th place at the Isle of man TT races(not sure which category tho) but that isn't too bad👍

CF's problem is their dealer network. The only CF dealer near me is a ghetto used car lot, one of those buy here, pay here places for folks with bad credit. They sell CF atv's and sxs's. They do not sell the motorcycles and seem unaware of the line up. They don't have a service dept. No other dealer is interested because they are sitting on the brand.

I'm still waiting for more information about cf moto reliability and part availability in the EU. I will do a test ride to form my own opinion