The jitter that's adding isn't doing the frame generation any justice. It was very jittery to me anyway

Can you do an in-depth comparison of latency using reflex? Like 1440p DLSS Balanced RT Overdrive has latency around the 60ms, what would be the equivalent for AMD given it hasn't got reflex?

@@Vicric I'm interested in doing something like this, but don't have the proper equipment to measure latency manually. When comparing Nvidia vs itself it is easy to do through its own software overlay.

@@danielowentech Ahh alright thanks mate. Would testing without reflex be close enough as a comparison? I imagine 60fps from either Nvidia or AMD would yield similar latency right?

@@Vicric I would guess it does, and if they didn't it would probably be well known at this point. Manually testing could confirm. Although AMD does have Anti Lag in their driver software, which I'm not sure how effective it is vs reflex. This is all interesting stuff to compare, but at least right now I don't have the time or equipment to do the manual testing I think this requires.

forealz

big facts

Yeah boi! He shows the stuff people only speculate about in the comments.

That's what I'm using on my 4070ti and it works well with 80-120fps at all times

is the latency associated with frame gen noticeable?

@@jokur7 to me it’s very noticeable In fact I can easily perceive the lag when it goes above 20~25ms, Playing with a controller feels much better

@@HeLithium just use old RT mode or dont use any rt and enjoy 4k 60fps + gaming, overdrive is like rt back in rtx 20 series era, few generation away gpus might work ok with ti, now its almost beta test for 4090

@@NostalgicMem0ries unfortunately I don’t have a 4k monitor😭

good feedback :)

or wait for next gen.. even cdpr says this tech still isn't supposed to be "playable" and is mostly just a demo lol

@@hua..My new 4070ti maxed everything with RT overdrive gives 80-100fps at 1440p. Next gen is here lol :)

I plan on it. Need to get the 4070 reviews out first and see where pricing settles after a few days.

@@danielowentech thanks! Underrated channel!

@@garrusvakarian8709 I strongly disagree. I used to have a PS5 and i hated playing with controller and I couldnt hit my shots. I even stopped playing. Probably bc you can't adjust ads sensitivity. After getting my PC, I'm having more fun with k&m.

Nice. I'm doing a new playthrough with overdrive rt now that I have a 4080 laptop 🎉

3080, such a great card. Though that's where you can see why Frame Gen is such a big deal. If your card can't reach 60fps for whatever reason, a smart use of technology gets you there. I know it's a controversial statement but I do like the 4000's series for how efficient and "smart" they are, despite their flaws (mainly the lack of Vram for anything that isn't 4080/4090). But they are great, efficient, they stay cool... To think that an RTX 4070 can do as well as an RTX 3080 while staying under 200w is something that blows my mind, considering how incredible the 3080 was (and still is). Frame Gen aside though, there is no real need to upgrade to an RTX 4000 when you have such a great card (all the 3000's are great)

This card is incredibly locked down unless you really want to mess with it and unlock it the overclocking on cards adds like 50 to the clockspeeds and ends up at like 1 fps in some games but you can overclock the cards easily to that by yourself.

If you want to play in 1080p maybe you should wait for the 4060 i think

RT/PT does not render at native resolution. I have to set my resolution to 1620p to get good looking (native?) 1080p picture.

​@@Xeloyas 4060 cant handle Overdrive at 1080p, even with full dlss 3

@@niebuhr6197 When you see what a 4070 does at 1440p with overdrive and how DLSS 3 is powerful with this technology it is 100% sure that it will run at least at 70-80 fps trust me

@@Xeloyas this "trust me bro" is useless. I'll give FACTS to proof you otherwise. At 1080p, you dont want to go below Quality, which is 720p. So the advantage that 4070 has (using more aggresive scaling) is unavailable. Secondly, 4060 is already out on laptops, and there's a very high probability (based on Kopite7 leaks) that the desktop version is identical specs wise. And that puts a limit on how fast it can be (spoiler, nothing special). Laptop 4060 cant run Overdrive at 1080p, because 720p + frame gen fails to deliver even consistent 50fps. It drops to mid low 40s! So your input lag is that of 30fps and completely awful. Indeed, it is UNPLAYABLE for a 4060 even at 1080p.

ASW demo?

Yeah, I was mostly looking for the Reflex improvement at the end, but didn't happen, that's disappointing. However as for your second point, AMD has a similar feature called Anti-Lag. Never used it, can't compare, but it's there.

@@chrissoclone Even better! @Daniel Owen: Add Anti-Lag as well in the mix so we can see native with/without Reflex/Anti-Lag :D

@@chrissoclone anti lag and reflex dont work the same

@@megadeth8592 Ok, so what is it for then, is there any reason to use it? And as for Reflex, is that specifically made for being used with FG?

@@chrissoclone Anti-lag for AMD basically caps your GPU usage below 100%, because latency increases a lot when you max it out. Reflex was developed either before or alongside FG, but was released well before it (I remember it being advertised for God of War PC)

1080P Quality DLSS is quite okay. Going lower usually reveals a bit of instability on finer details (like the small branches of the palmtrees when they're at an angle). If you're not sensitive to these sort of artefacts it's actually better for you because there's quite a bit of performance to gain from lowering the input resolution. It's not a bad thing to favor more frames over higher resolution, at the end of the day you really should just play at settings you personally enjoy.

Idk I'm on a 1080p monitor and I have never once turned on DLSS Quality and thought the image looked worse it's pretty hard to notice this stuff unless it is a huge issue I don't really care to zoom in on tree leaves or gates and I'm on a 25 inch monitor anyways.

As a 3080 user who plays Cyberpunk, I'd say that it's still not worth doing with any of those setting combinations, when you can run with overall better image quality AND fps by not using path tracing at all. I say that because I strongly believe that whether it's even worth using ray tracing on mediumish/ high settings at 1440p with a 3080, is debatable. Just running without ray tracing entirely allows me to run without any upscaling, and at a higher frame-rate too (at 1440p). Some areas/ scenes do actually look worse with ray tracing, and the "wow" factor of ray tracing was just never there, even though I upgraded from a 1070 ti which obviously isn't anywhere near as powerful as the 3080 even if you don't consider the ray tracing angle. For me, by far the biggest improvement from going to the 3080 from a 1070 ti was being able to run at native 1440p (without any upscaling) with a much higher frame-rate. The lighting in Cyberpunk looks really, really good on ultra with RT completely turned off. That being said, I was already getting a very good experience with my 1070 ti thanks to FSR, carefully balanced settings choices, and an overclock which put it up to the level of a stock 1080. It's funny how the vocal minority of Nvidia fanboys shifted from defending the importance of having the best frame-rate and/or frame-time variance even if it comes with a big price premium, to defending the importance of subtle differences in image quality which comes with trade-offs in other aspects of image quality as well as huge trade-offs in fps. I'll admit that hardware ray tracing performance was part of what made me choose a 3080, but it was also in-part because i just found a good deal on a very nice (used) model of 3080, and I just wasn't finding any equally enticing deals on good models of AMD cards. I really did expect to be a bit more impressed with ray tracing in Control and in Cyberpunk, but both of those games look really good even WITHOUT ray tracing. I think a lot of people who play with ray tracing are not able to be objective about how good ray tracing really is because they don't realize that a lot of the fantastic lighting they're looking at isn't actually using ray tracing, and looks the same when ray tracing is turned off. Another thing to consider is that Unreal Engine 5's software ray tracing seems to be a surprisingly good and viable alternative to hardware ray tracing, and it works just as well on Radeon hardware.

@@syncmonism I am a Nvidia fanboy. :(

🎉🎉🎉

That 12GB VRAM really helping out

But wouldn't that defeat the purpose of turning overdrive mode on in the first place?

@@israelRaizer Not if it’s not noticeable. Slightly lower quality accurate lighting is better than high quality psychotic lighting.

@@israelRaizer not necessarily, less bounce just reduces the accuracy where it would be needed but could be near unnoticeable and intro duce some noise if the denoiser aint that great. should be fine, not like everything is path traced in the first place

@@ItsAkile well, it is fully path traced actually (except for glasses, if I recall correctly), it's the whole point of this new mode... Anyway, I'd have to see what it looks like with less bounces and range, I feel like it would get to a point where it makes more sense to just go back to the old method

@@israelRaizer Yes its incorrect to say that its fully path traced and not a single drop of caustics which will not be playable. The previous method was ass an the game did not look that great before this update. Less light bounce still superior than "psycho rt" because its a more streamline global lighting now with RTXDI. Its Path Traced, not fully

If I recall correctly even the 4090 struggles at 4k with DLSS Quality+FG, Nvidia recommends using DLSS performance mode

@@israelRaizer It certainly does. I mean... 3090 owners probably won't be playing this game with Overdrive mode a whole lot but some people are fine with yucky performance mode DLSS at 1440P. It's icky at least IMO. And anything under 60 fps on flagship class cards is no bueno. Makes me sad so I know I wouldnt.

@@F1neW1ne yeah, which is weird to me, because my rtx 3070 runs it at 1080p with DLSS quality mode at ~45 fps

@@israelRaizer How does it do at 1440P? Just curious. Also... you run a 3070 on a 1080P monitor? Interresting. So basically ya... you cool with DLSS on 1080P? Last time I looked at it, it was kinda yukky. But it's been a while. KZfaqrs say the same but we all have different tolerences right? If you enjoy it great!

@@F1neW1ne I use a 1080p TV as a monitor, so I didn't test it at 1440p. And dlss quality seems good enough

Which is sad the 7000 series cards actually seem to have pretty good raytracing performance but because AMD was so far behind NVIDIA games are optimized with NVIDIA's cores in mind.

sadly FG isnt as good on 4070 as it on 4090 since 4090 can often double fps while a lot of the times 4070 will only give you 50% extra frames or in other words every 3rd frame being the generated one

@@ThunderingRoar FG works the same on any 4000 GPU, just depends of the resolution and framerate target. If you want 120 fps at 4K, of course the 4070 won't be up for it. But if you're ok with 60fps at 1440p, well, it's super easy to limit your framerate at 30fps and get smooth 60fps thanks to FG. Works very well for me on every games I've played. I don't think people (even Tech experts on KZfaq) really understand how interesting Frame Gen is and will be in the future. Most people seem to want just bigger GPUs, but why ? If you can achieve the same thing with better use of the technology, it's a win win for me. An RTX 4070 is as good as an RTX 3080 while being smaller, way more efficient energy wise and having less cores (it also runs cooler). In a world where energy is becoming more and more expensive, efficiency should be the main focus and that's where the 4000's are great (not saying they're perfect though, the lack of Vram and the pricing isn't very good). DLSS and Frame Gen give you a good level of performance without asking your card to run at 90% and 90 degrees. Why this has become a bad thing for some people ? I don't get it

link?

No rt

and it uses 2x the power, You need 3x 8pin for 6950xt while this one needs one. if you need to buy a new PSU then there is no value there at all. This is a much smaller card as well so it is a easy drop in upgrade even for 550w psu. those people are so out of touch with reality and what real users actually need and care about.

I just ordered a 6950 xt to replace my 3070 ti. DLSS 2 (and fsr) look like garbage at 4k even on quality imo, I dont even use it. Frame gen dosnt interest me at all either. I just want native 4k 60 fps. I dont get you guys, PC gamers used to straight trash consoles for upscaling, but now that Nvidia is doing it you all pretend like its the greatest thing ever. It looks terrible , and I dont see how anyone can use it.

RT uses heavy denoising which makes things blurry. It's doing 2 bounces per frame. If you want a clearer image, it would need a higher bounce count. Offline CGI renders do like 500-1500 bounces and it looks very sharp.

Probably that Windows 11 issue that's been fixed in a recent beta (currently running 4.6.5 beta 4 from guru3d).

@@countertime The thing is that I have that version ;_;

@@ag4640 Ah.. and RivaTuner 7.3.4 beta 6? If so, then I don't know sorry!

1440p. It's going to look exactly like whatever resolution you're playing at.

You were probably looking at frametime, not latency (bottom left corner of each screen using Nvidia overlay, not msi afterburner stats)

@@danielowentech thanks! i didn't notice that in the bottom there my first watch

it doesn't remove frames, it adds an interpolated frame in between 2 normal frames

Rtx 4070 never touches 200W. Mine was always 180-190ish max

If you care about running at very high frame rates, why would you pay a premium for the better ray tracing performance of an Nvidia GPU? The ray tracing advantage isn't even that big anymore. Maybe it was just timing, and the fact that you couldn't find any good prices for anything from AMD at the same performance tier?

It was used the whole time

you cant turn FG on without reflex being on

@@danielowentech Oh, I see. Well, didn't know how that worked, now I do, thanks.

What cpu you running?

@@ipotato95 13900k

@@thatnnja241 in that case I have no idea how you’re stuttering

@@ipotato95 it’s weird man they’re like 20 sec stutters every like time I move to a new area of the game it’s 32gb of ram too btw

Many people compare 4070 to 3080 because it has kind of the same price, less consumption, less VRAM and about the same performance (when not running into VRAM bottlenecks).

That is not the case at all. I just sat in this game with a 4070 at 1440p. Turned everything to ultra with RT overdrive, PT, and DLSS Quality+FG. The game runs at 80+ fps and feels perfectly fine.

@@Hardcore_Remixer WHAT VRAM BOTTLENECKS?????????????????????????? Why are you people carrying on with this nonsense? You sound like a bunch of clueless nuts every time you bring it up.

@@imgonnawin555 You won the silicon lottery then.

yeap

I recently bought a 4070, even if i had said I wouldn't. To me even 30+ before frame gen seems ok already. It's not great, but it's playable if you're not a latency snob.

@@atnfn I now actually play without frame gen on the 4070 Ti @ 4K with DLSS performance. I get around 30- 40 fps, but it's playable for me, as the frame times are very consistent. (in Cyberpunk I mean)

You are crazy in a good way

👻👻👻

Happens to the best of us

deep learning super soaping

I mean, it's contained within a DLL. He gets a point for trying 😂

Acronyms

Well…yeah the 4070 is just a 3080

You're comparing DLLS and frame generation to a native lower frame rate. Both unplayable. It does add too much latency at that framerate. With DLSS and without frame generation will be the better option.

@@danwarb1 You're not completely on the money here. Path tracing heavily scales with amount of pixels because you shoot X amount of rays per pixel, and then track some of them. You will have a cleaner image when using Frame Generation if that lets you have a higher internal resolution (before AA/upscaling). That's why Frame Generation is SO GOOD with path tracing.

@@TheDravic That explains how it looks so good when most people thought it's gonna look bad, and they didn't even experience it, that includes me though. I have the 4070ti but I have it paired with a r5 3600, tried benchmarking Cyberpunk at 1440p Ultra RT and my god, my CPU is struggling, I can't wait to get my hands on a new CPU and experience this...because this is revolutionary, a fully ray traced game in a tripleA title? I don't get how many people do not get impressed by this.

Frame gen is still increasing latency. The improved latency with DLSS on is coming from the upscaling (lower render res), not from the frame gen.

@@CasualG-mer r5 5600 is 120$ now. go grab it

Why not? The 4070' RT computational triangle is 4x(in a single frame) that of an RTX 3080 so RT performance should be 1.5x faster than a 3080, which is what the 4070 is identical to in terms of raster performance. RT overdrive is completely playable even on a 3060 as pointed by Digital Foundry. It's just that AMD cards won't run it.

@@msnehamukherjee True, 1440p native without FSR 2.1 with RT Overdrive and the game maxed out I am getting 12 FPS out of a 6950 XT. It's still respectable considering it's first gen RT for AMD. But the 6950 XT is faster in raster than a 4070, more like a 4070 Ti, but still performing worse with RT on. But then again, 1st gen RT for AMD vs 3rd gen RT for Nvidia. No idea how the 7900 XTX would fare, but I guess way better, considering the extra power it has in addition to better RT.

you should be able to run ultra with no rt and get over 60fps. im hitting like mid 80s on my 6600xt

@@megadeth8592 that's what I wrote... I get 90-100fps with FSR Balanced in 1440p with a mix of medium and high settings. :)

I think so too.

Well, if the objects are within screenspace it's fine. The problem lies with stuff outside of screenspace, those artefacts are often pretty nasty looking if not masked properly & with a fallback to cubemaps for the offscreen elements.

Reflex is enabled on all of these tests

@@danielowentech so weird that ltt said in his video reflex pretty much negates frame gen latency diff.

​@@sven957 it does for the most part, but Reflex was ON for all the side by sides (even native). So FG with Reflex wasn't compared to native WITHOUT Reflex.

This was tested on the 4070 release driver that came out yesterday. DLSS has always had a lot of ghosting in cyberpunk as well as many lines in pavement and buildings looking very aliased in motion and thin objects like palm tree branches looking very aliased. Among other things. It's good but never as good as native. That hasn't changed.

@@danielowentech Maybe we're talking about two different things. The artifacts of which I speak only with RT OVERDRIVE, I don't know how to explain to you, shiny clothes, and also on materials, rainbow effect.

@@danielowentech I agree, my biggest issue with DLSS in this game as well. Some of the artifacting does seem much better in this newest patch though, mainly the ghosting on thin powerlines and stuff. I had even previously switched out the .DLL and I still think CDPR's implementation of the new 3.1.1 DLSS is much better than when I had switched it. Not really sure why that is. Also the new sharpening seems a lot better.

thats true indeed

The most popular VR headset has a latency of 45ms, which is much higher than what you normally get with frame gen

If you want to play at 1080p, I wouldn't buy one either. But I also had a 1070 and the DLSS + FG is pretty legit. Very hard to notice anything unless you're looking for something to notice.

I do 4090 at 3840x1600 RT OD, DLSS_Q & FG and it is great. FPS is 90s up to 116 fps (My LG C2 caps at 120Hz and Gsync runs up to 116Hz). The main FPS drop is still crowded areas. When I had a 3080 at 3440x1440p on Ultra with RT I would get between 45 and 60 fps

Yeah try your "magic" in Competitive online games, Nvidia bot ; it will be more of a hinderance than help. Even in its current implementation it is far from perfect, filled with UI bugs and some artifacts. And this Awesome feature can run well on RTX 20 and 30 series as well if Ngreedia allows it.

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat i dont need it in competitive games. It's like saying try ultra settings. Why would I? Plus the only competitive game I love is Warthunder and I max my monitor out in that without dlss 2.0 at max settings without even going over 60% GPU usage

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat And what's funny is you get the same people saying "I don't even want dlss3.0 because of latency" are the same people complaining that they're scalper priced 30 series won't run it. 20 series didn't get ReBar, 30 series won't get dlss3.0, 40 series won't get the next feature. That's how it goes. But don't try to talk down the feature you claim nvidia is wrong for not adding. You either want it or don't - it can't be both

Why didnt you just say Microsoft flight sim if you were gonna put it in parathesis anyways lol

@@toastedoats5074 You have the most powerful consumer GPU in the world (priciest too) I would hope you are happy with it.

No offense but I still thing playing at 4K is the stupidest thing to do, even in 2023. Marketing is all about 4K now but this is such a stupid thing. 1440p is the sweet spot between good image quality and acceptable performance hit. 4K is a non sense for gaming...

@@MadX8 as someone who's been on 4k this whole time for years and only had to start dropping down to 1440p because my poor 1070 cant keep up anymore, disagree. Definitely see it. 4k is glorious but 1440p is pretty decent also if we had to "slum it"

nah it adds too much lag it's unplayable

You could have just peeked at his other videos, man tested the likes of RE4 and Last of Us on the 4070 both 1440p and 4K not 24 hours ago.