Pursuing humbly is an amazing way to discuss this. I have long held that dogmatism is one of the most dangerous way to hold ideas, but I love that more positive way to say that!

This was valuable to help identify why 'woke feels like a bludgeon.

This was very interesting to hear your perspective on. I feel like this really solidifies for me how similar the extremes of both sides of thought are in the US currently. The way you both describe your thoughts on those who adopt those monikers parallels heavily what I see from the other side of the spectrum. This is especially true for those who have the same sense of hidden knowledge and superiority, much like those on the Q conspiracy side of things. It seems to me that both sides, when taken to the extremes, generate boogeymen to energize their base and then isolate them from all other viewpoints in a similar manner.

The evolution of language seems to be at the root of communication issues like these. There are situations where a new word is needed....like when someone postulated the existence of a completely new particle, the Higgs boson. Confusion arises when one group begins to use an existing word in a new way. In the case of the term "woke", it seems some actors exploit that confusion to further divide people who may otherwise have begun to understand one another. Would Galileo have seen parallels to his experience with the Roman Inquisition in 1615? Is the debate about the natural resistance to incorporating a new idea into our established worldview? As always, thanks for contributing to our conversation about this issue.

My "comment before watching" answer of what I think it _ought_ to mean: both aware of, and ideologically opposed to, systemic injustice resulting from past or current prejudice. Unfortunately such a politically charged word will have additional meaning hung on it according to the beliefs of whoever uses it, so it becomes a muddy catch-all term thrown back and forth in a culture war

“Woke” when self applied meant something like holy or virtuous. Conservatives and liberals who haven’t accepted the secular, humanist, neo-religion flipped “woke” around to mock and deride.

You mentioned “secret knowledge”. Are you familiar with the links between Gnosticism, and mysticisim, Marxisim, & wokeisim?

Whether you agree or disagree this content deserves a thumbs up just for the courage to post on such a charged subject. I enjoyed the intelligent conversation.

Baudrillard describes a hegemonic authority which has ceased to be a classically understood authority and is internalized by the people within the hegemon. This is, indeed, comparable to the Matrix. Everyone is subject to the hegemon, but they are also potential Agent Smiths available to reinforce the hegemon should it be challenged. Baudrillard's fear is a state of hegemony which is unassailable. I believe he said something like he doesn't fear terrorism as much as he fears a state capable of eliminating terrorism. Now, I realize I'm deviating from contemporary woke thought, but this is because they fail across many domains to understand their deconstructivist compulsion. What they're practicing is something that is ironically incredibly dependent on a hegemonic system. It's abundantly obvious to me that people who are woke are operating on an unconscious imperative which has been co-opted by the hegemony of the system they think they're opposing (which if they actually read so-called postmodernists, they'd know is of supreme concern). So, the legitimate fear which underlies a state of terminal rigidity is actually captured biblically, but really I have far too much to say on this subject to easily condense the scriptural references. Still, this can be summarized metaphysically in an Aldous Huxley quote: 'Every idol, no matter how exalted, over a long enough period of time, becomes a Moloch hungry for human sacrifice'. I'm not certain if you're familiar with 'The Moloch Dilemma' (a game theory condition), but it's important to understand and when extrapolated might be considered a Moloch System; or the Beast System of Revelation. And this is, in fact, the state we find ourselves in today. Again, I'm tempted to say more but there's too much to say and I'm not really a fan of typing lengthy KZfaq replies, but I hope this provides a couple insights you can draw upon.

lets hear 1 hour

I don't really necessarily agree with "getting out of the cave" as a tool, but that could just be my world view. I see all things as tradeoffs, sometimes they are close tradeoffs, sometimes they have huge gulfs, but each one has to be a very personal assessment. "Wokeness" as I see it is the idea that there are some ideas about the world that are uncomfortable (sexuality, gender, race, systems that relate to them, etc.), but that confronting issues around these topics to make life better (ideally for all) is worth the discomfort and weakening of other paradigms that come with doing so. With regards to finding a basis beyond purely the sort of revolutionairy fervor that may be percieved of it, that is already largely happening the the urbanism movement. People particularly in North America from around the Milleninal-GenZ boundary and younger have become discontent with an environment where cars are the main way to travel, with pedestrian/bike and public transit infrastructure being severely lacking in many places. It turns out that the origin of this current way of society has basis in the 50s-70s, and the decline of public transit and rise of low-density suburban living had a hugely race-driven component. It has also been evident that the reason why many (predominantly white) suburbanites view taking transit and going to urban downtowns as very dangrous is because they get a lot more exposure to minorities who due to systemic issues didn't have the same opportunities to housing, and also due to systemic issues often also have less money. There's also some component about homelessness and housing prices in there that I can't integrate concisely. The Urbanist movement as such has really been blossoming in recent years as it is very compatible with "wokeness", and while change is slow because most people in the movement can't effectively run for a lot of higher offices yet (a lot of us are in our 20s), there has been definte politcal change. Another usage of "woke" that has risen in the last few years is that it is a counter to "based", but the usage of such is very fluid. "Based" is used to mean "cool", but for a few years and still in some circles is identified particularly with right-leaning thought, though that is dissipating. For a fair few years now "woke" has also been used as a pejorative by the left to refer to stuff such as Hollywood, famous individuals, and merchandisers who see it as an idea valuable enough to cash in on, but clearly don't understand the detail of it and so sorta overshoot so to speak.

Appreciate you fellas having a very nuanced and intelligent take on this, and so many things.

I'm gonna have to listen to this one in chunks, because... Well. I'm trans, queer, and disabled -- I don't really get a choice of whether I'm considered "woke" by the right or not, just by being myself. And you know, I actually find myself *missing* the days where the term thrown around was Social Justice Warrior, or SJW. which feels bizarre bc that was also Quite Bad, but at least that wasn't used to describe Every Damn Thing that a pundit doesn't like. Like, interesting points to be had, and I'm not intentionally listening to something in order to be enraged or something -- indeed, I like your homesteading content, and want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hear out your thoughts, here. But you have the luxury of discussing this at a bit of distance, whereas this hits much closer to home for me. I don't even self describe as 'woke,' because in my experience, it's been taken and morphed into an entirely negative term. Though the idea is certainly older than 2014. I've been hearing jokes about the kind of folks who say "wake up sheeple," etc, for like... Most of my 30y of life.

I can do it in much less: 1) Anything that makes a white, homophobic, sexist, Christian man feel like he isn't the center of the Universe and the Lord of Creation 2) Anything reveals the history of the oppressed 3) Anything which acknowledges that science works and facts don't care how hurt your feelings are 4) Anything which seeks to remove privilege or which enshrines the idea of one Law for all - no more "In groups the law protects but does not bind and out groups whom the law binds but does not protect"

30 minutes? Woke can be defined in a single word: EVIL.